Conference noted::bicycle

    Hi,
    
    I'd exchange them. The plastic pedals have the standard old loose
    bearings 8^(. The net two models up have sealed roller and needle
    bearings 8^). If you hav ever repacked pedal bearings, it's worth
    the extra bucks.
    
    Keep'em Spinning....
    
    
    Gary

    	I dissagree.  The ATB pedals are designed for off road use.
    They are tougher than the sport and comp. versions.  And, they are
    a whole bunch lighter!  Their only failing re. the other models
    might be the grounding angle they would allow in a turn.  If you've
    got a high bottom bracket, or can remember not to pedal in a steep
    turn, they are the best value.  I put them on my best bike last
    year and have had no problems.  Sport model is for the bike snobs,
    (I got suckered into getting them when they first came out - they
    now reside on my bad weather bike) and the comp. version is for
    the racers.  Just another case of bike equip. eliteism. - Chris

Okay, I was too cheap to buy Look pedals from a store with a fit kit.
Any suggestions on how to set them up?  Last night I put them on my bike on a 
wind trainer and started playing around.  After about 5 adjustments and a sore 
knee I stopped for the evening.  

I was primarily adjusting the "toe-in".  My old bike shoes were Avocet Touring
shoes with ridged bottoms which give no real clue as to where the shoe fit in
the pedal.  The pedal did not make much of a mark on the sole.  The new
Cannodale shoes have a very narrow heel compared to the Avocet clunkies and 
the sole is about an inch shorter.  

Gee, a guy tries to save a few bucks and what does he get - creaky knees!

cbs

    Have you been off your bike all winter?

    Another possibility is that you're bike is set up incorrectly
    in other respects - for example you can have knee problems if your
    seat is too high, or otherwise mispositioned.  But without cleats
    to strap your feet in the problems may not be as obvious.

    I've found that the best way of adjusting cleats is on the road
    for what feels good.  For this reason I'm surprised that you're
    having difficulty with a wind trainer since it provides a sort of
    ideal way of roughing in the settings, without the worry about
    using the new equipment outside.  This is how I made my initial
    cleat adjustment when I first tried them (regular cleats, not
    these new systems.)  Then I brought a screwdriver with me and tweaked
    them over the course of a day or so of riding.

    But I switched to cleats in midseason and was already in good riding
    shape, and can't comment about starting cold with them.

    - Jim

    	I had the same problem trying do-it-yourself cleat alignment
    with Look pedals.  With normal pedals, I would ride the shoes without
    cleats until the sole of each shoe was marked by the pedal.  The
    back line was where the slot on the cleat went.  
    	With Look, it was nearly impossible to set up on my own.  I made 
    the switch last May, after I had a good many miles in.  The answer
    for me was to give up and go see John Allis at Belmont Wheelworks.

    I hear there is a machine(gaget?) to align the Look cleats to your
    shoes. It does seem that riding them to adjust them would produce
    more comfort. In my case though, I have screwed up knees and what
    they like for a position is not right for my ankles. I figure the
    machine would adjust them so that to prevent more stress on my leg
    as a whole. Has anyone tried this system, if so where and what are
    your comments.
    
    thanx in advance
    mano 
    

    
    	I would TRY to align them as follows:-
    
    	Place them where you think they should go, only snug up the
    bolts tight enough to stop them from skidding around.  Get on the
    bike, clip in and rotate your heels until your feet are parallel
    with the centre line of the bike.  Tighten the bolts just a little
    bit more, but not so tight that you can't rotate the cleat by swinging
    you heel in or out.  This will give you an initial position, if
    all your bones are straight and line up, etc., this would be close
    to ideal (though some people believe in a little toe in).  Select
    the lowest gear you have, well lets be reasonable, say something
    around 60 gear inches, and go for a high revving spin ON THE ROAD
    if possible or on rollers with NO FANS.  The important thing is
    NOT TO use high force, especially avoid hills and standing.  When
    you feel comfortably warmed up, "legs are spinning on their own",
    sort of feeling, stop, unclip carefully, and tighten them up as
    hard as you dare.  That should be it.  This is what the RAD device
    tries to simulate, it doesn't always work because its usually used on
    a fixed wind trainer, probably in too high a gear with too much
    load.  I think (Yeah, another opinion) that it would work better
    if used on rollers at a spin of ~150 for at least five minutes.

    	Reg
    
    

    	I agree that Look cleats are more difficult to set up than the
    old fashion kind.  The device that allows you to set them at about
    the right angles is the RAD part of the Fit Kit (RAD = Rotational
    Adjustment Device). This has been talked about extensively in other
    notes in this file.  I consider it manditory for me whenever I get
    new shoes.  I permanently mark the Look cleat outline so I can replace
    the cleat without getting RAD'ed again. (I tend to drag the front
    of the cleat wearing it to a knife edge.)  But remember, if you
    have knee problems after RADing, try small readjustments. RAD should
    get you in the ball park, and be ok if you aren't super sensitive
    to cleat angle, but it may need some fine tuning if you are sensitive.
    
    Look(ing) since summer of '85   - Chris Paulhus

I too used the self adjustment method with Look cleats.  However most cleat
adjustments are small and this approach is usually OK.  But it is not the
case with everything.  Most of us are not kids anymore (let's not argue
about that, at least we are no longer teen-agers).  What feels right is
often just what we're used to, not necessarily what is correct.

When I got a new bike last year the shop took all the measurements and worked
out the formula to set up the bike.  We found that my seat was up much too high
and back a bit too far.  When I got on the new bike I thought "this is
terrible, I can't possibly ride like this."  But I had become comfortable in a
bad, inefficient position and was not making the most out of my leg mussels. 
I forced myself to adjust to the "correct" position and now feel that the
shop was correct, I feel stronger now.
                                                       
In the "Winning" that just came the other day Greg LeMond said that 90% of the
American riders he saw had bad form on their bikes.  A large portion of
coaching, especially coaching young athletes, is working on their form.  If
Charley Lau (sp?) told me to change my batting stance I'd do it!

    Since walking/climbing is normally a needed activity Mountain Biking,
    how does one accomplish this feat with Look pedal cleats?
    
    steve
     

< Note 554.10 by AKOV11::FULLER >
                    -< Look Pedal Cleats made for walking >-

>    Since walking/climbing is normally a needed activity Mountain Biking,
>    how does one accomplish this feat with Look pedal cleats?
    
I just bought the Look ATB pedals, mainly for use on my mtn bike riding the
roads in the sloop (to save my road bike).  When I go off road, I plan on 
mounting a toe clip in the reflector holes on the front of the pedal and use 
some kind of non-cleated shoe.  I wouldn't ride the Looks off-road.  If you 
must, you could always bring along another pair of shoes for that purpose.

Kevin
     

(There is a platform you can buy that clips into the Look pedal so you can ride 
with street shoe.)

It has been a lazy winter until I bought the Looks, so I was out of shape.
I have been able to adjust the toe-in and front-back, but it is not easy.
When the shoe is in the clips, two of the three bolts are covered.  The toe-in 
was the killer as the left foot points straight ahead and the right points 
out.  (I am lopsided - my left foot is an 11, the right is a 9-1/2, I buy 10's)

The knee pain has gone away, at least for wimpy 25 min windtrainer rides.
Actually my left feels better than when I used straps!  If any problems crop 
up, I'll try the RAD system.

cbs