Conference noted::bicycle

>    I would appreciate any recommendations on good
>    choices for a kid's bike.
    
Gitane (used to?) make a nice 3-speed DERAILLEUR-equipped bike for kids 
with about 14" wheels, maybe a 12" frame ... If you know of a Gitane 
dealer (sorry, I quit about 14 years ago...) check it out!

                                               ken

    I think a derailleur equipped bike may be a bit overwhelming for
    a three year old.  
    
    Last summer, I bought a two wheel bike for my son (he was then 2
    years old) at Gamache's Cyclery in Fitchburg.  It is a Schwinn 
    Predator with training wheels.  It's a really nice looking bike
    with padding in places for a little more protection.  My son
    loves it.  
    
    Since the seat is adjustable, the bike should fit him for at least
    another year or two.  We may try taking off the training wheels
    this year to see how he does without them.  The guy at Gamache's
    said that three is the youngest he's heard of for children riding
    two wheelers without training wheels.

    The cost was about $60.00.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Regards,
    Denis

    When I was four I had a red Schwinn with training wheels.  I remember
    how I used to cruise the neighborhood on it, thinking I had it 
    made -- until one day my father took the training wheels off, held me
    balanced at the top of our driveway, and let me roll away.  
    
    I was terrified.  The training wheels hadn't taught me how to lean
    through a turn, or how to maintain my balance as I slowed down.
    I managed to steer the bike into the next-door-neighbor's driveway
    before I fell and scraped my leg.
    
    I cried.  I didn't like my bike or my dad any more.  It was a week
    before I got back on my red Schwinn again.
    
    Obviously, I got over the trauma, but I've often wondered if there
    might not be a better way to teach kids to ride.  Aren't there some
    experts who've recommended against using training wheels?

    
    MATT

>    Obviously, I got over the trauma, but I've often wondered if there
>    might not be a better way to teach kids to ride.  Aren't there some
>    experts who've recommended against using training wheels?

Don't know about better, but there's WORSE: at the age of six, I got on 
my 26" wheel bike (!) with no training wheels, and listened to one of my 
peer's advice - "Steer AWAY if you feel yourself falling in a certain 
direction (!)". Right. Anyway, got over that after finding out how much 
FASTER you fall when you steer away!

I would say that training wheels seem to be a poor idea - I was told (by
someone else) when I got my bike that I would fall a number of times and
get scraped up, and would eventually learn to ride. Worked just like 
that.
                                                ken

    I can remember when I first rode without training wheels(4 1/2) and the
    way my father helped me to learn. I think it was a good idea and
    is worth sharing with you.
    
    	When I first got the bike the training wheels were so low that
    the bike couldn't lean. Matter of fact every time I rode over sand
    the rear wheel would spin as if it were up on blocks. As I grew
    more sure of myself buzzing around on four wheels my father raised
    the position of the training wheels. Now the bike leaned a little
    bit, just enough to make it scary and also keep it sane. This 
    progressed untill the training wheels were so hi that the only time
    I used them was when I was stopped. I actually was the one that wanted
    the training wheels off, because every time I rode around a corner the
    training wheels would touch down and jar the bike and scare me.
    So I realized that it was safer to have them off than to have them
    on at this point.  
    
    	I probably could have taken them off sooner but this method
    seems, for me anyway, to be the kindest.
    
    Tom_who_now_has_training_wheels_again (you know the fat burning
    kind) 

    RE .5  I had to do the same type of adjustment with the training
    wheels on my son's bike.  
    
    As for training wheels being a bad idea, what difference does it
    make whether you give a two year old a tricycle or a bicycle with
    training wheels?  Either way the bike won't lean.  It would have
    been rather fruitless to give a two year old a bicycle without 
    training wheels if he's too young to ride it.  This is why we picked
    the Schwinn whith training wheels vs. a tricycle.  When he's old
    enough to ride two wheels, we'll take off the training wheels and
    guide him through the transition.
    
    
        Regards,
    Denis

    16" bikes are recommended for kids 3-6 years old.  Both my kis had
    a Royce Union 16" convertible bike (had a removable bar to make
    it a girls style or boys style bike) from the time they were 3.
    They never fell over until I took off the training wheels when
    they were 5+.  My first daughter was a little wimpy about it and
    it took about 4 hours for her to be able to pedal on her own.  My
    second daughter learned in less than an hour.
    
    Regards,
    Dave                      

    My younger daughter had training wheels on her 20" Schwinn for the
    longest time.  Finally one Saturday she wanted them taken off so that
    she could be like the big kids.

    Off came the training wheels.  I held onto the back of the bike seat
    and walked along beside Jessica as she slowly pedaled along the
    sidewalk in front of our house.  By the time we'd made it most of the
    way around the block, I was running to keep up and not holding onto the
    seat any more.

    As we neared our house, I just stopped running.  Jessica did fine until
    she realized that I wasn't beside her any more.  She turned back for a
    moment to see where I was.  Curtains!  From too far to help, I watched
    her veer off the sidewalk and crash headlong into our chain link fence!

    That was the end of bike riding for the day.

    The next day her older sister showed how it was done and the training
    wheels were a thing of the past.

    -- Ward

   >  From too far to help, I watched
   > her veer off the sidewalk and crash headlong into our chain link fence!
    
    Just a reminder to start them out with a helmet. They probably need
    the helmet most while learning to ride.It also forms a good habit.
    My daughter used her helmet in our very hilly neighborhood while
    still using training wheels and was able to brush herself off and
    get back on instead of getting stitches. Embarrassment was the only
    damage.
    
    re .5 ~Gradually raising training wheels.
    
    This method worked very well for my daughter also. I agree with
    the viewpoint that training wheels develop some "bad" technique
    that has to be overcome when they are removed, but they build
    confidence, get the kid out having fun when they might otherwise
    be too timid, and help low speed maneuvering in hilly areas while
    the the kid builds strength and balance for hill climbing.(I did
    find changing the gearing to much lower than stock also helped) 
    Of course all kids are different and some can avoid or get quickly
    out of training wheels.(Just make sure it is them and not just your
    own ego that figures they are ready;-)
     
    
    I start my kids on a *good*(not expensive) tricycle (with helmet)
    and then move up to a 16" wheel with training wheels. I remove the
    training wheels every couple of months and let them try it for a
    day or two.(Avoiding the bike is good indication they aren't ready.)
    I have seen a 12" wheel bike used by a neighbor with very good results
    also.(The kid virtually lived on the 12" wheel bike.)
    
    Just make sure they are having fun!
    Thom
                                          

    ref: .5   It's risky to generalize, but in my case ...

    I also used the technique of progressively raising the training wheels
    with my oldest daughter.  She built up strength and confidence
    over a period of several weeks.  Finally, one Sunday afternoon we
    went to a school's large open parking lot.  Thirty seconds of pushing
    then another thirty before she realized she was really able to do
    it on her own and I was through for the day.   I just watched from
    the sidelines and made occassional suggestions for things to try.
    
    Another day, we returned to the big open lot with two bikes.  This
    time I rode behind her and coached her in how to approach a variety
    of adverse but common situations.  The key, from my perspective
    was to find a place where she could freely experiment with the
    physical control of a bike, then easily switch to concentrating
    on how think when riding.
        
    A few years later, my younger daughter was coached by her older
    sister.  I was told what adjustments were needed to the training
    wheels and when to do them.  We got through the full range of 
    adjustments in one weekend.  The next weekend they came off.
    I just kept an ear tuned in to ensure that my replacement was 
    correctly addressing all the basics.  I only had to fill in couple
    of holes.
    
    I continue to ride in the rear behind both of my daughters and offer
    words of wisdom and advice although they are neither necessary nor
    appreciated.

        Bob

    My oldest son, when he was 5 years old, (he's 29 now) received a
    bike with training wheels as a gift. He rode it around the corner
    to a girl's house to show her, and was back home immediately, asking
    me to remove the training wheels. I did, he then got back on the
    bike, and without help rode back to the girl's house...
    
    
    Seems she had HER training wheels removed that day, and he didn't want
    a mere girl to best him!
           
    =-=-=-=-=-g=-=-=-=-=

    In regards to the first reply.....
    
    Either a doctor or a child development specialist that was also
    a biker recommended a bike with a foot brake until age 10 or so.
    He said the average child does not have the combination of strength
    and coordination to safely brake in an emergency situation. Based
    on personal experience with myself and my kids I would tend to agree.
    A lot of them look pretty good with hand brakes under normal
    conditions. Get them in a panic stop and they can't do it.
    
    Denny

RE: -.1
    
>    A lot of them look pretty good with hand brakes under normal
>    conditions. Get them in a panic stop and they can't do it.

    Your average 8-year-old would reject any bike that didn't have
    a good coaster brake to jam on.  Life wouldn't be worth living
    for them without power slides!
    
    MATT

    I'm currently wrestling with the idea of buying my son a multi-speed
    bike for our family rides.  He's been riding for two years now without
    training wheels, and last year moved up to a 20" BMX single speed with
    no problems -  but he's only six years old.
    
    We've started taking family rides this spring, and the distances are
    getting longer (around 15 miles) at this point.  If possible, we'd like
    to keep slowly increasing the distances of the rides, but we may have
    reached his maximum distance on a one-speed.  He loves the rides, but
    he's starting to hate any hill, especially on the way home.
    
    We've checked out the bike shops in the Nashua area, and our options
    appear to be limited to 6-speed SIS-equipped mountain bikes.  However,
    the bike shops seem to be more concerned about selling their floor
    stock than giving advice.
      
    Anyone out there have a 6-7 year old riding a multi-speed?  Is this a
    good idea, or should I be content on keeping the rides short at this
    point so that he can handle it on this one speed?  Any suggested
    equipment other than a mountain bike?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Mike
    
    

>    Anyone out there have a 6-7 year old riding a multi-speed?  Is this a
>    good idea, or should I be content on keeping the rides short at this
>    point so that he can handle it on this one speed?  Any suggested
>    equipment other than a mountain bike?

    Well, let me give you my 2 cents (hopefully without sounding like I'm
whining .. ;-) ) 

    By all means, get him started early on a multi-speed!  Especially if
family rides are a common thing!  And also get him used to using a helmet!

    This past year we bought 12 speed bikes for my husband's daughters, ages
9 and 11, and started trying to have family rides on the weekends that we
had them.  (They were coming off of one-speed bikes)

	        Well.

    This shifting stuff ... we'd ride one each behind a girl, and tell her
what to shift, and when.  By the end of the ride, they usually had it down
pretty well.  However, when they rode their bikes at their own house, they'd
get lazy and stay in one gear.  Also, without us around, they'd get lazy about
wearing helmets too. (I believe their mom isn't as conscious about the 
plusses of wearing helmets as we are ...).  Anyway, we'd have to start over 
on our weekend with Basics of Shifting.

    You're the one that really has to judge your son's ability, but my 
opinion is that if you take the time to help him learn to shift, especially
if family rides are likely to  happen more than just every-other-weekend-if-
its-not-raining, then it's to everyone's advantage to have him learn early!
You get the family time together, and he doesn't hate it because it's too
much work.

	    - Lorri

    re: .15
    
    We finally ended up buying him a six-speed, SIS-equipped ATB with 22" 
    wheels.  The hardest part was finding a bike that he could fit 
    comfortably - the distance between the seat and handlebars on most of 
    the bikes we tried was the biggest problem - he had to lean too far
    forward.
    
    The first ride was a success - we tried to keep to bike paths and back
    roads as much as possible, just in case he had problems with either the
    hand brakes or the shifter.  It took him a few minutes to get used to
    the braking, since at first he kept trying to brake with his feet
    instead of the hand brakes, as expected.  But after a few minutes, he 
    was fine.  The best part was after the ride ended, he said that the ride 
    "was easy now", and he wanted to continue.  Surprisingly, the shifting 
    came easily to him.
    
    We're planning on keeping to the same type of rides for a while, and
    slowly increase the distance.  
    
    From day one, we never allowed Tim to ride without a helmet.  He, of
    course, is currently the only kid in the neighborhood to ride with a
    helmet.  He's balked a few times, but since we've started the family
    rides with EVERYONE wearing a helmet, he's hasn't complained. 
    
    Thanks for the info,
    
    Mike

I Need some help on finding a multi-speed (5 or 6 speed - 20") bike for my,
soon-to-be 7 year old son. He has been riding on a single speed for about year
and half and would like to get him a multi-speed to go up hills easily.

I would appreciate any suggestions as to what make, type of bikes and where 
to find them. I live in Nashua. 

Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
  
Rad.

    Perhaps I'm  showing  my  age,  but  I would first look at 3 speed
    in-hub gears for a child, as they are a bit simpler to operate and
    harder  to  damage.  They  also allow you to have a coaster brake,
    which is probably an advantage, as most 7 year olds don't have the
    hand strength to operate hand brakes.

--David

        My 9-year-old daughter is ready to graduate from a
        single-speed 20"-wheel dirt bike to something better and
        larger (her objective is to be able to go bike touring with
        the Girl Scouts next summer).

        We have been looking at 24" light-duty mountain bikes
        (probably a contradiction, but you know what I mean).

        We have particularly been looking at Gamache's Cyclery in
        Fitchburg, where the Diamondback Outlook has caught her eye.
        With 24" wheels and 15" frame (girl's style) and 18 speeds it
        goes for $240.

        One thing I like about it is the quick-release front wheel,
        which will make packing in our van a whole lot easier.

        Is this a good choice of dealer and bike?  Any alternative
        suggestions?

        I note that the latest Consumer Reports has a report on
        mountain bikes (now don't snicker!).  They rated the 26"
        Diamondback Outlook rather low, in particular because of poor
        wet braking performance.  Any comments?

        We also looked at a "Sterling New Discovery" at Bill & Andy's
        in Chelmsford.  It is a 10-speed (no quick-release) for $180.

        Thanks,
        Bob

	Try the Chelmsford Cyclery across from Purity
	Supreme...they seem to be having some good sales.

	Unless she plans on riding in a skirt...I would
	stay away from "girls styles" they are less
	sturdy....and I think you want all the sturdy
	you can get...

	-dick

re .19

I haven't visited Gamache's myself, but a few friends have gotten their bikes
there and are very happy with the service provided.

Rich

    One thing you might consider is waiting until next summer to get the
    bike.
    
    My daughter's Girl Scout troop went on their bike tour in May. We were
    able to borrow a 10 speed for that, but it made us realize that my
    daughter (who is 10 soon to be 11) was ready for a bike over and above
    her 20" dirt bike. We went looking and found that, since she preferred
    a "girls" bike, we were able to buy her a full-size (27" wheel I think)
    19" frame hybrid. She, at 4'10", fits on it comfortably with the seat
    post all the way down, and, unless she becomes a serious rider later,
    we shouldn't have to buy her another bike.
    
    Depending on your daughter's height now, what you think her height will
    be 9 months from now, this might be an option to consider.
    
    Dick

    My son, who's about to turn 10, will be getting a *real* MT bike for
    his birthday.  I've been calling/looking around and so far, one bike in 
    particular seems interesting for the sizes available.
    
    What we're leaning towards is a TREK Antilope 800, as it's one of the
    only Cromoly frames (that we've found) that comes in a 14" with 24"
    wheels.
    
    Does anyone know of any other brands that we should be looking at?
    
    Any bikes that come with Rapidfire/Rapidfire + in this size?
    
    Any info would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    Doug Whynot
    

     Giant has a line of kids bikes. I bought an 18sp sis shift(shimano)
    components, 24" wheel Giant "Awesome" for him in June 92 that has held
    up really well to plenty of use and abuse.
     Didn't see anything with rapid-fire shifting when we were shopping.
    I just recently bought my 9 yr old a new Raleigh(Triton) 24" wheel
    bike of similar quality while living here in Galway. I think I have
    the Giant catalogue at home from that bike search. I'll check the
    specs on the kids bikes to see if any offer rapid-fire.
     Bob

     Sorry, the "him" in my last reply is my then 10 yr old son.