Conference noted::bicycle

    Well,
    
    The cateye has swithcable kilometers or miles, but, you only do that
    once when you set it up.  I believe that the only way to swith is to
    clear the memory (odometer goes to 0).  You can only display either
    cadance or speed at a time but can display avg speed, elapsed time, or
    trip distance in the secondary display.  With speed displayed, you
    can also display max speed.  Finally, it is available only in black.
    
    The Rhode Gear Edge is the only other computer that I know of that
    can compute cadence.  This one may be able to display speed and
    cadence simultaneously but I don't really know for sure.  This is
    also availble only in black.
    
    Paramount is advertising a cadence model but I am told that is not
    available yet.
    
    The only white models that I know of are the new Performance (available
    only from catalog) and also the Cannondale.  Neither have cadence.
    
    I heard that cateye will soon have a model with a built in electronic
    compass but I havn't seen it yet.  Also, I read about a wireless
    machine that uses some type of radar or dopler or something to figure
    out how fast you are going.  I would assume that this does not do
    cadence either.
    
    I like the cadence feature of my cateye micro but I am not happy
    with the way I have it mounted on my cannondale bike.  I will have
    to mess with it a bit more to get it to fit my big tubes better.
    I have thought about getting a front mount unit since my front fork
    is 'normal' but I don't want to give up the cadence.
    
    I wish the speed function of the micro had better resolution.  it
    only displays integer mph or kph and that is a bit course.  I would
    like a tenths digit.  I would also like to display speed and cadence
    simultaneously.  Actually, I really want three displays.  I also
    like to keep trip distance up on the screen.
    
    As for additional features, I know that the Rhode Gear will
    automatically stop the timer during breaks.  That would be nice but I
    would want the 'true' average speed and timer function as well.
    I would also like a second, independenly resetable trip distance
    so that I could follow trip directions without having to remember
    milage when following trip directions.  I would really like a wireless
    system.  If this dopler system really works, and is reasonble in
    price, I just might give up the cadence to get all these wires and
    pickups and magnets and wire ties off my bike.
    
    Good luck in choosing your machine.  But buyer beware, the perfect
    system does not exist.
    
    /Jim Pappas

    I have a Road Gear "The Edge".  It will simultaneously display speed
    and one of either; heart rate(w/optional heart rate monitor), stop
    watch, trip distance, total distance, cadence, maximum speed, and
    average speed.  So far I have had good luck with it.  It was also
    pretty cheap for a computer with a heart monitor ($65 for the whole
    thing).  I think the normal price for computer is $65 and the heart
    monitor is $50.  It will switch between kilometers and miles, but
    not without clearing it.

    **Stay away from Avocet!!!**
    
    Besides the lack of features and single item display, their reliability
    is *terrible*.  After my second replacement on warranty, I gave
    up on the idea of keeping cumulative mileage. Of course that 3000
    miles in one week (according to the Avocet) was a great ego boost:-).
    
    I noticed in "Electronic Engineering Times" that Avocet was sueing
    the chip manufacturer for the damage done to Avocet's reputation
    in the market place. Avocet's packaging doesn't win awards either
    though.  When the computer portion is taken off the bike, the battery
    often loses contact and there goes the display and accumulations.
    
    Also the Avocet doesn't really work on a mountain bike which means
    I need a different set up from my road bike anyway.
    
    Thom

    
    I believe that the Cateye Micro is capable of displaying both speed
    and cadence at the same time.  Most likely, you will have to choose
    between kilometers and miles at the time you set it up; I don't
    think that you can readily switch between the two, unless you
    disconnect the batteries.
    
    You could probably order any of the above for much less than a bike
    dealer would charge you, from Bike Nashbar located in Newton.  Or
    if you'd like them to send you a catalog, you can call 1-800-345-BIKE.
    
    
    -Good Luck
     Dan
    
    

    	You can display speed OR cadence, but not both at the same
    	time.
    
    	Scott (1500+ miles on my MICRO)

> .... Bike Nashbar located in Newton....

Perhaps you mean Needham?

As far as I know, they only have locations in Needham and Youngstown.

-Jeff Bell
(Youngstown refugee)

    I learned the hard way, but .3 hit it on the head: Stay away from
    Avocet.  Mine has spent more time in the mail than on the bike.

    
        re .1	Forget waiting for the Cateye model with compass.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	Instead, go directly to you local SITEK dealer and get their
    latest SATNAV model that will find its position anywhere in the world,
    via satelite fixes, to within 3 ft (~ 1 metre) and provide an LCD
    display of the local road system with "You are here, heading there"
    information displayed in contrasting colours.  Yes, satellite
    navigation technology is *NOW* available to the average bicyclist
    at a cost of less than 5 times the price of a super lightweight
    custom made, all Italian bicycle, and it weighs less than 15 Kg 
    (~34 lbs).  No long sequences are required, there being individual
    buttons to display;  True Heading, Magnetic heading, Time to Way
    Point, wind speed, wind direction, apparent wind speed, ground speed,
    estimated time to destination, etc.  You can even interact with
    the satellite and have a zoom display of your planned route with
    untied dogs and newly fomed potholes highlighted.  Weather patterns
    as seen by the satellites can be displayed as you ride, you can
    actually see the rain on your LCD just before you feel it on your
    head.    

    	Reg
    

    	I've said it before:
    
    		Reg is a true comedian.
    
    	Scott

    re .8     .0 needs one in white. 
    

    re .9  (about .8)	It doesn't come naturally Vern, I regard it
    as part of my career development, its the funny folks that get to
    the top.  Know anyone whose boss is *NOT* a clown ?
    
    re .10 (also about .8)  Yes, well the display mounts on the handlebars,
    *BUTT* !

    
    
    
    
    	There are still some problems with signal strength, you have
    to remember that this is a ported technology from the land (sea)
    of Snottie Yotties.  They're working on it, of course, but for the
    time being it is still necessary to carry the antenna......  Ummm,
    lets just say, "High" on the bike.
    
    	Reg
    

>       		Reg is a true comedian.
 
    
    Reg is a comedian, that's true. That Reg is true is questionable.
    
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=gary=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    Problem with Avocet?
    Has anyone seen the one where the readout , when in the sun, shows
    		00:00.0
    		???
    I have two Avocets and both consistently perform that way. Replaced
    one, and the new one did the same. Bike shop owner didn't believe
    it until he took SEVERAL out in the sun and saw it for his own eyes.
    
    He suggests I get one of those little lights they "invented" for
    the RAAM, and put a little awning on it.
    
    
    
    Reminds me of an old High School cheer:
    
    
    Avocet, avocet You are IT
    
    SH for Avocet. IT for it.
     
    
                                  
    -just-getting-back-from-DeathWhirl-
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=gary=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    
    	re .13	OK Gary, I'll believe you, you *DID* go to high school.
    
    	Two questions on this reply :-
    
    
    
    
    
    		What *ARE* you on ?
    
    and
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    		Can you get me some ?
    
    	Reg
    

>       		What *ARE* you on ?   
    
    Right now I'm on HPSVAX. or were you speaking about "substances"?
    I am very careful about the substances I use. Currently the best
    is Tobin Tuna Salad without the bones.
                                              
>       		Can you get me some ? 
    Does anyone out there think I should provide Reg with any of MY
    stuff? I shouldn't think so. He's dangerous enough without my help.
                                                              
    
    
    Original question still stands. Those Avocets are misbehaving something
    wierd. It would be nice to find a cure for them that doesn't include
    any of Reg's standard replies, such as, leave them home, or ride
    the opposite direction, or don't look at them, etc etc etc
     =-=-=-=-=-=-=gary=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    Cyclocomputers mentioned in this conference:

            Avocet cyclometer
            Huret/Sachs.  It fits on the front fork.  Absolutely no wires.
            Catmate
            Cateye Solar
            Cateye Solar II
            Rhode Gear Edge
            Rhode Gear Quantum


    I looked around for cyclocomputer notes (and added the keyword COMPUTER
    to 7 notes), and I have not yet seen the Velotech model mentioned in
    this file.  I thought that I would give it a plug, since people seem to
    spend so much time complaining :-) about other models.  I have no
    special interest in this model, other than the fact that I own one.

    I have had mine for about 3-4 years now, and have not had any problems.
    It runs on 2 standard AA batteries.  No need to find a light source to
    recharge it! :-) The batteries last at least a year (I always replace
    them at the start of a new season).

    Features:
        Clock                           Scan
        Cadence                         Trip time
        Odometer                        Trip distance
        Current speed                   Trip average speed
        Count down timer                Trip maximum speed
	Miles/Kilometers conversion	Analog current speed

    The scan feature continuously displays each of the following for about
    5 seconds: current speed, trip time, trip distance, trip average speed.
    All of the trip features are started by starting the trip time
    stopwatch.

    The analog current speed is a bar graph at the top of the display that
    is always active.  The display is LCD with large, easy to read numbers.
    The unit slides off of the mounting bracket if you want to take it with
    you.

    The buttons are:
      Clock - shows the time
      Speed - cycles the display between average, current, and maximum speeds
      Odo/Trip - cycles between odometer and trip odometer
      Stw - starts, stops, and clears the trip stopwatch
      Cdt - starts/stop the count down timer
      M/K - cycles between miles and kilometers display
      Scan - monitors current speed, average speed, trip time, trip distance
      Cad - displays cadence

    A small magnet attaches to a spoke on the front wheel and a pickup is
    clamped into the front fork.  Another magnet is glued to the front
    chainwheel and another pickup is attached to the frame near it (for
    cadence).

    Nashbar used to sell this model, but I'm not sure if they still do.  I
    got mine from a shop for about $60 (?).  It's expensive, but I like it!

    ---Phil

    RE .16
    
      I have a Peugeot model, I forget which. It sounds exactly the
    same as the Velotech :-)
    
      At first I had problems with the position of the magnetic pickup
    and found myself going VERY fast :-), too bad it was the computer
    :-(
    
    Steve

    Now that everyone's had a chance to forget all this stuff. My wife
    just had her new bike stolen. MOAN, GNASH! The real problem is I'd
    just mounted her Cateye Solar the day before. It comes of being
    too efficient, you see. Here in the U.K., they claim that:
    	1. the mounting kit for the front wheel and cadence sensors
    	   is not available, and
    	2. a new Solar will cost �80.00.
    I'm not too impressed.
    
    Is the complete mounting kit available in the U.S. for a Cateye
    2000 (the original version, bought in '82)? If so, at what cost?
    My preference is to keep on with the old unit, if at all possible.
    The only problem we've had has been the traditional battery weakness,
    especially during the U.K. winters.
    
    Thanks for your help.
    
    Tim

I may  have a set you could have. I apparently lost my head unit over the
winter. Maybe it fell out of the window. I spent three days looking for it 
to no avail. I then went out and bought the new Micro (which also fell off
when I was walking my bike in Newport RI. Anyway, I may have the old set
around somewhere if your interested. Send me mail at CIMAMT::CHINNASWAMY.

Mano

    I have an Avocet-40 (same as the 50, but no altimeter).  I
    went on a ride with a buddy of mine and we got precisely the
    same trip distance (+/-.03).  We finished together.  
    
    Imagine my surprise when my average speed read 18.8 MPH
    and his read 18.4 ?????  
    
    27.47 mi/1.45 hrs. = 18.94 avs.
    
    Do these models computer average speed differently?  One thing
    I also noticed is that the timer need not be engaged to compute
    average speed, so I imagine mine uses the clock (time of day).
    
    r�  

    assumption:
    
    You stoped several times during your ride....?
    
    The AVOCET has an automatic start stop feature built in?
    
    Normaly the timer would stop if there is no pulse within ~ 10 seconds....
    6 times 10 seconds is a minute....(that is the way my Cyclomaster does
    it).
    
    maybe your friends AVOCET needs ~ 15 seconds to find out that the wheel
    stoped turning ?
    
    maybe he stoped once more than you ?
    
    maybe you stoped and the little magnetic guy was exactly over the coil
    and you gave it some extra pulses?
    
    Karl_made_assumptions
    
                                      

    Karl,
    
    
    Actually, I ride a bit faster than my friend.  The one stop we
    had (a traffic light), I had to wait for and he got to blow
    through when it changed to green.  Maybe the model 50 has
    no stopping mechanism at all...  
    
    r� 

My model 50 has the stopping mechanism. It records average *moving* speed.

If you had to wait for a traffic light, then you were on the move for that much
less time than your friend who shot striaght through.  If average_speed = 
trip_distance / time_spent_moving, then since you spent less time moving than
your friend, your average speed increases.

Incidentally, the average speed calculation appears to be unaffected by the
stopwatch function - I assume that there is another hidden timer in the thing
that just measures time_spent_moving.  It doesn't use the time-fo-day clock; if
it did you would see your average speed slowly decrease whenever you stop. Some
computers work this way, but not the Avocet.

-Les.

    ah-haa!  That makes sense!  A few times I got to the top of
    some long climbs before he did and was ready to get back to
    work, but was afraid to lose him in the wilderness; )  The
    few moments that I stopped or did a "near-track-stand" is
    probably what accounts for it.
    
    Thanks for the help.  
    
    r�

    After attempting to drive into my garage with my bike on top of my car,
    the distance function on my cateye Micro has gone intermittent.  After
    a 16 mile ride last night, it indicated my distance was ~2.6 miles. 
    The Micro was not on the bike at time, so I think that can be ruled
    out.  I've checked wire connection at the sensor and there weren't any
    obvious signs of damage.  I guess I could jiggle the wire at the
    connection and see if it feels any different than the wire on the
    cadence sensor.
    
    Any other ideas?
    
    Bob - who wanted one of those new Astrales (sp?) but didn't want to get
    it this way.

    Well, I got the new Cateye Astrale.  I had heard that it had an
    improved wiring harness, so I figured that I would try it out.
    
    The wiring harness is still one piece for both cadence and distance, so
    if one dies, you must replace both.  The good news is that the sensor
    is now separate from the wiring harness, so when you replace the wiring
    harness, you are only replacing the harness and mounting hardware. 
    Whether this will lead to a lower cost replacement harness remains to
    be seen.
    
    As far as the features are concerned, it has all the features of the
    Micro, plus the ability to display both cadence and current speed at
    the same time.  One is displayed in large digits in the main display
    and the other is displayed in smaller digits in the auxillary display. 
    You can switch them between the main display and the auxillary display
    at will.  Unlike the micro, it doesn't lose max MPH when switching the
    display to cadence.  It also features auto-start/stop which can be
    overridden if desired.  It also has a 24-hour clock.
    
    As far as installation is concerned, because it uses a different wiring
    harness, the sensors are positioned slightly different than with the
    Micro.  I discovered this after I set up the new harness to match my
    Micro and discovered the magnet on the wheel no longer passed the
    sensor:-(  The same was true for the cadence sensor.  The kit comes
    with 2 tie-wraps and several strips of plastic tape.  I suggest
    replacing the strips with tie-wraps.
    
    Unfortunately, the settings used to set the wheel diameter are
    different for the Micro and the Astrale, so you can't simply set the
    Astrale to the same setting as the Micro:-(
    
    As far as use is concerned, the mode and start/stop buttons are
    completely redesigned.  They still function the same way and the mode
    is on the left and the start/stop on the right, but they feel
    completely different.  This took some getting used to, as at first, I
    couldn't toggle thru them as fast as I could on the Micro.
    
    Bob