Conference noted::bicycle

>    I'm going to be test riding a semi-recumbant called a Linear.
> will cost around $900.
> What should I expect for components at this price?

	First you have to realize that recumbants (even semi) are
	fairly limited production machines.  They usualy have to
	use some custom parts because standard parts are designed
	for standard diamond frames.  All of this raises the cost
	of manufacturing the bike.

	With that in mind, I would expect component quality higher
	than a $69 department-store bike but much less than a
	$900 diamond frame bike.  I would be happy is such a
	bike came with components normally found on a $250
	diamond frame bike.  This would include bottom-of-the-line
	SunTour or Shimano components mixed with Sakae and Sugino
	components.

    I know what a recumbant bike is, but what's a semi-recumbant and
    why would a person want one?  How does it differ from a regular
    recumbant?
    

Re : .1
  Wow - losing $750 for a recumbant vs diamond framed bicycle.  Sounds like
  an awful lot.  Do you believe this is universal across all non-diamond
  framed bikes you've seen?

Re : .2
  As I understand it (which is not much) the 'semi' in semi-recumbnt is meant
  to mean the rider is not as 'reclined' as on a full recumbant.  But if
  anyone knows different, please tell...  From the picture it looks like the
  rider sits in a small seat complete with backrest.  Pedals are out in front
  of you, supposedly for greater,smoother strength pushing & pulling than on
  a diamond frame.  The model I'll be trying steers with handle bars mounted
  beside the seat, so your arms are approx. at your sides.

  I'll know more after the test ride and will let you know what I decide.

  The picture is on page 68 of the July issue of Cyclist.

    re:.3 I think John (.1) is about right.  Your normal bike pruchase
    for $900 has about a retail $450 frame and $600 components also
    retail -- that's about what it would cost to buy it in pieces and
    put it together.   So if you buy a frame that's limited production
    it would probably cost more as a "frame only" and the builder also
    does not get a big parts discount like Fuji (who buys thousands
    of groups) so he's got to go for the "lesser" components.
    
    If you want a hand made mercedes you gotta pay for it, if you want
    something truly different, take a good test ride first.

    

When are you going to bring this into work?  Can I have a ride??

Be careful about one thing.  The position of the front wheel can make a big
difference.  The real long recumbents have the small front wheel way out in
front of you, and of your center of gravity.  Some shorter recumbents have
the front wheel much closer to you, and your center of gravity.  Under hard
braking, I have read somewhere, the shorter version has a definite 'over
the handlebars or whatever' problem.  This can result in serious head
damage!  Some hard acceleration-braking testing may be a good idea, with a
helmet, and watching out carefully for the rear wheel lifting!

I don't know how the 'semi' adjective may affect this.

Expecting a full report,
Del

>        Here's a topic that should get some good discussion -- based on the
>    static that Gary gets on his semi-recumbant tandem.  ;-)

 Whaddya mean, static? The whole bunch of 'em out there are green with
    envy that they can't ride in solid comfort on the front end of my
    two wheeled Rolls. Why, I'd bet you even money that even Reg sometimes
    wishes he had 90 speeds to diddle with!
    Right Reg?
    
    The other replies have it right, tho. Your components will be of
    a lower quality than those on a $900 diamond frame bike. For all
    the reasons given. Don't expect dime store quality, however. My
    Counterpoint ranks with the lower priced Santana's which have
    components in the range of a $500-$600 tourer....the $$$$$are in
    the unique frame and in the fact that there's very few of the beauties
    sold each year. I have serial #53....and I bought 3 or 4 years after
    the first one was produced.
    
    Lets have a bike show in the fall, provided you make the purchase!
    
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=gary=-=-=-=-=-=-=

	I got to try several recumbents of various designs at the New
	England Area Rally.  The seats were all comfortable and the
	steering was very strange and required a couple loops of the
	small parking lot to get used to.

	I tried the  Infinity and Roulant, both of which had low handlebars 
	and the Tour Easy and a custom bike similar to the Tour Easy both 
	of which had high handlebars.  I did not get to try the Lightning
	which had a short wheelbase so all the ones I tried are long
	wheelbase machines.

	Two hints:
		Keep your back planted on the backrest!  If you lean
		foreward, your hips will pivot and tip the bike over!

		Enter the toe clips from below.  With the toe clip
		hanging down it is easy to hook your toe into the
		toe clip, pivot the pedal up and slide your foot in.

	Alltogether the bikes were comfortable but would require
	a little practice...  They are not for shy people... you
	will always get people asking you questions about your
	strange bicycle.

				-John A. Wasser

	P.S.  The pedals are in front of you bacause there is no room
	below you and if they were behind you, you would be riding on
	your stomach (which has been done).  There is no advantage I
	can see to having the pedals above you but someone has probably
	tried that, too.  You should have seen some of the stuff that
	gets entered in the Human Powered Vehicles (HPV) competitions.

    I just got back from 470 miles of RAGBRAI where there were lots
    of recumbants and especially LINEARs (they are made in Guttenberg,
    Iowa - the termination point of this years RAGBRAI).  I didn't get
    to actually ride a LINEAR, but I did get to sit in one.  Sitting
    in a LINEAR is comparable to sitting in the most comfortable chair
    you have in your house - read WONDERFUL.  I ached with envy (and
    with soreness) every time I passed a recumbant the rest of the ride.
    Yeah, I would pass all the recumbants when I was riding but invariably
    I would see them again later on in the day because while I was resting
    my sore butt, they were peddling merrily along.  
    
    You can get the LINEAR equipped with two styles of handle bars.
    One that looks kind of like the long handle bars that you see on
    motorcycle 'choppers' and a second that is a short bar that goes
    under your seat.  Supposedly, you start out with the motorcycle
    style bars till you get used to a recumbant and then you switch
    to the much lighter, under the seat bars.  People were also using
    a fairing on the model with the high handle bars.
    
    Price from the factory is $740.

    My main concern with a recumbant would be visibility to drivers.
    We are already difficult to see on a regular bike.  With a recumbant
    you sit a few feet lower and are much more difficult to see.  I
    would probably go with one of those tacky red flags.

    Mark

Hi Folks,
  Well, I checked in with my bike shop this weekend.  Unfortunately Linear
  has revised their ship date to dealers (again!  groan!).  I'm still
  waiting, but at least early fall looks like the new time frame.

  While at the shop, I took a look at a magazine on recumbants.  It showed
  me why the shop is waiting for the Linear.  Most recumbants (whether
  semi- or not) have frame construction that looks like variations on the
  diamond shaped standard frames.  In contrast the Linear is just one
  piece of aluminum; the front wheel attaches to the front, the rear wheel
  to the rear.  Seat mounts on top along with handlebars.  Plus their
  frame is designed so that the wheels can fold into the center for
  fitting into a car.

  Time will tell, thanks for the advice.  I'll keep you posted when I
  finally get to try a test ride.

  (oh, and yes Del, [re .5] if I buy it you can try it out from work.
  That is if you can fit onto it.  Great story I have about Gary Miller
  trying to get his Counterpoint adjusted to fit my short legs!)  
  
  More later...				-Leslie

>      That is if you can fit onto it.  Great story I have about Gary Miller
>  trying to get his Counterpoint adjusted to fit my short legs!)  
 
    Careful, Ms. Smith....I'll tell all about you trying to get your
    legs adjusted to fit my Counterpoint...Can you imagine? She wanted
    me to attach stilts to the pedals so she could use 'em!!! SDhe tells
    me she rides a 14" frame normally !!!!

    Well Folks, my Linear has finally arrived!  Nothing like patience!

    I've had it about a week, and have been out peddling at lunch time in
    the good weather.  I like it a lot and am developing more ability with
    it -- and confidence.
    
    Since most requests for test rides came from HL02, I'll be at HL02 at
    12:00 this Thursday (5/19) for anyone that would like to give it a
    spin around the parking lots.  Bring your helmet please.
    
    Requests for other test rides at other times can be granted at DLB5 --
    my new work location.  Just send me mail to arrange a day/time.
    
    I'll post the full set of specs in another reply.  Final price was
    $799 (not including tax), which provided the dealer, Fritz's Bicycle
    of Shrewsbury a $59 profit, if the $740 factory price from an earlier
    reply is still in effect.
    
    So, if you're curious about this non-standard bicycle, come join the
    spectators or riders on Thursday.....
						-Leslie

    As promised here are the specs for the Linear Semi-Recumbant.

    The frame is a 3" aluminum box beam
    Sakae SX cranks
    Front cluster is 48,33,28
    Rear cluster has six rings, providing 18 usable gears since chain is
       sooooo long
    Suntour XC 9000 front & rear deraillers
    Dia Compe GX brakes
    27 x 1 1/4" rear wheel; pressure 75 psi
    20 x 1 3/8" front wheel; pressure 60 psi
    quick releases for 
       o both wheels,
       o seat (it flips forward to transport, and moves on the box beam to
         accomodate different size people),
       o the front and back of the box beam to allow folding under of the 
         two wheels for transport.
    Frame sizes: 45" long, 22" high at the front, 24" high at the back,
       seat frame height is 26", front tire to rear tire is 7 1/2' long,
       front cluster to rear cluster is 50".
    Seat looks like a lawn chair.  Has 2' tall back, seat is a triangle
       which is 9" deep at the front.  A velco'ed pocket is provided behind
       the seat back.
    Steering is done by your sides.  A steering column travels from the
       front wheel to the handle bars at the rider's sides.

    Bike is easy to assemble from transport in the car.  Snap lock
    fittings are used for the seat and the steering column.

    I'm presently getting my uncle-in-law to make some more attachments
    for the box beam to mount a water bottle and the Cateye.

    I've tried the bike with my mavic pedals, but for now prefer the
    normal pedals, especially near traffic.  Hill climbing is OK, but not
    dropping the cadence is critical.  And of course standing is not
    allowed. ;-)
    
    I find I don't get so tired on this bike, when compared to my normal
    diamond framed Nishiki.  Maybe its the biopace cranks, maybe its that
    I can get more air into me 'cuz I'm not leaning over the drop
    handlebars, maybe its cuz I stay cooler 'cuz the wind can evaporate
    the sweat easier from my front.  Who knows....

    But the person who said you lose all anonimity was exactly right.  I
    get lots of wonderful stares.  But at least people notice me and are
    curious, rather than try to accelerate their cars past 'another
    bicycle taking up the road'.

    If anyone would like to evaluate the bike and take it on a test ride,
    please contact me by mail (AITG::LTSMITH).  If you decide to buy from
    Fritz and take in my business card or go with me, I'll get a 5%
    commission.  (It will keep me in water bottles and shorts for a
    minute.)    ;-) ;-)

    So, here's to the bicycling craze on non-standard bikes.  Come check
    mine out....
				-Leslie

    Where you riding it this past Sunday around Wachusett(sp?) reservior?
    I saw a semi-recumbant with a big"lawn chair" type seat climbing
    up a hill in Stering. I was going the other way (clock ways) around
    then I saw the same person at the hot dog truck at 140 and 70. The
    seat caught my eye, lawn chair is a good description of the seat.
    
    	tom
     

Re: -1;  No, wasn't me, but I wish it was -- too much work to do around
    the house.  Maybe there are more of us out there....
    
    As described in an earlier note, test rides will be offered tomorrow
    at HL02 at noon.  Hopefully the weather will cooperate.  If not, we'll
    try for a day next week...
    
    If you'd like to take a longer ride, then pls contact me via mail so
    we can schedule.  This way I'll bring the Nishiki in also.  (Remember
    the story with the Counterpoint?  The chances of my being able to ride
    someone else's bike are about 0 -- legs are too short.  Oh well..)

    So, let's hope for good weather tomorrow...
						-Leslie

    Well, it doesn't look like Mother Nature is cooperating.  It's raining
    cats & dogs here; therefore, today's demo of the Linear is canceled.
    
    Let's try for Tues, May 24, same time, same place -- 12:00 noon, HL02.
    
    If this is an inconvenient day for someone who wants to see it, send
    me mail and we'll set something else up.
    
    					-Leslie

  We did the demo, in spite of poor weather on my return ride to DLB --
  actually we had a significant thunderstorm with drenching rains and
  lightening *too* close.  I got soaked of course.  The security guard had a
  great laugh as I stopped by the entrance to empty the water out of my
  shoes.

  But the weather was nice for the parking lot demo.  More demos are
  available on request.
  
  I spoke with Fritz about the steering which doesn't seem to want to stay
  tightened.  He's on the line with Linear finding out the scoop.

  Turns out the reason that Del had problems with locked-steering was that
  the seat position was too close to the handlebars -- supposed to have three
  inches of separation, but Del's legs are too long in comparison to mine.
  (Not again...pls...  ;-) no more jokes about my short legs.)  For proper
  fit, we would have had to move both the steering connection and the seat.

  Overall I'm enjoying it a lot.  I'm about ready to change from biking at
  lunch to biking to/from work -- if only the weather would cooperate!

						-Leslie

    Any more  recumbent  advice?  I've  been  offered a good deal on a
    linear, and wondered what I should look for, how they hold up, and
    whatever  else  I  need  to  know  having  a total of 2 miles on a
    recumbent (and that was the front of someone else's counterpoint).
    Yes, this is crazy right after buying the counterpoint, but it's a
    good price, and I want something to ride solo.

--David