Conference noted::bicycle

    	I'll have 2 years of Look experience in August (got 'em on for
    NEAR '85).  There has been quite a bit of discussion of Looks  in
    USENet's net.rec.bicycle.   Some of the racers have managed to pull
    out of Looks in a sprint, but they seem to be as good or better
    than cleats and straps for that.  The primary problem has been getting
    them to release reliably - can you get a foot out and down quickly
    every time?   I was slow to figure out the trick: swing your heel
    IN, not out, to get out of the Looks!   It has to do with the mobility
    of your ankle: can you point your toe more inward (toe to toe) or
    outward (heel to heel).  I can get to almost 180 deg outward - toes
    pointing away from each other, but can only get to 120 deg or so
    toes pointing towards each other.  This means that I can release
    much more reliably and with much less effort by swinging my heels
    inward.  ps. They are a godsend for recumbents.  - Chris

    I have had looks pedals for about two months now and I love em.
    I have the competition version for racing as opposed to the sport
    model. Previously I had the traditional system pedal/toeclips and
    straps, mostly campy stuff. Once I got the Looks they were so
    comfortable I could not believe the difference. Regarding shoes,
    a lot on manufacturers have designed shoes around the Look system.
    These shoes are all predrilled so attaching look cleats are a snap.
    Brancale dynamics are what I have and they are very comfortable.
    
    Walking on cleats is not a good idea no matter what system you
    purchase. If your going to be walking around a lot on your shoes
    don't buy a cleated system.

    I have had Look pedals for a little over a year now and have put
    about 3 thousand miles on them.  I have found them to be VERY
    convienent in heavy trafic situations.  I especially appreciate
    the  very easy disengagement and reengagement feature of the pedals.
     So far I have had no trouble at all either entering or releasing
    from the pedals.  By the way I have the Sport model and have them
    set at just a little short of the max limit.  I do NO racing but
    enjoy long hills and have had no trouble of unitentional realeases.
    
    As far as walking on the cleats -- I really don't recommend it as
    the cleats are very slipery, and I suppose would wear down.  To
    ensure they stay in position on the shoe and didn't slip after I had 
    the RAD done I had the plates glued to the shoe. When buyinbg shoes
    it is necessary to either buy Look compatabile or drillholes.  I
    bought Look comptabile.
    
    The only maintenance I have done is to wash them to kepp them free
    of grit (from time to time) and shot some WD40 into the adjustment
    opening.  
    
    Good luck.
    
    Ralph

        Has anyone heard of a system called, I think, "Cyclebinding"?
        A local general sports rag sasid they were the "best"
        (probably means most expensive, they were that too) of
        the binding systems.  Supposedly decent to walk on, too.
        
        thanks
        
        andy

    RE: 362.1!!!
    
    	Thanks for the heels in tip! More importantly, your last line
    intrigued me (recumbents). If you are speaking as an owner, what
    model is it? EasyRacer? Avatar 2000 ?!!  I have been searching
    for the address of FOMAC Industries, the maker of the Avatar 2000
    for a long,long time. They used to be in Wilmington, MA. but they
    vanished. If you know of any previous discussions on recumbents
    please let me know, I'm new to this notes file and rabid for info
    from real life recumbentors.
    
    					* MAC *
    					ML11-2, ENGINE::MCDONALD

    	You can look at note 196.0 from Chris Paulhus,
    	although I saw nothing for FOMAC. Chris seems to
    	be one of the knowledgeable folks around here
    	(wherever here is) regarding recumbents.
    
    	Scott

    What's a recumbent?

A recumbent bicycle is one that you recumb on :-) -- that is
you sit down sort of on your back with your feet out in front.
Once you get the hang of it, that riding position is somewhat
more comfortable.  It also has less wind resistance.  [I'm not
sure if the position gives more or less pedaling efficiency --
any comments?]

The big reason that you don't see many of them around is visibility.
The rider and the bike are really close to the ground.  It's easier
for the rider to see (more or less), but drivers have a much harder
time seeing a recumbent bike.

R.

    
    RE: 362.8
    
    On efficiency, from what I have read the position on the recumbant
    makes a more effective use of the quadriceps muscles and therefore
    a better pedaling stance. Also, on a standard bicycle, the downward
    thrust of the legs applies an opposite force lifting the body up
    which is partially countered by your arm muscles holding you down.
    (Not so much in a gentle pedaling as in a mean hill climb.) Whereas
    a recumbent such as the Avatar 2000 causes the opposite force of
    the pedaling to be countered by the back of the rider pressing into
    the sling back of the seat. Once mastering the new position, a rider
    should be able to out-perform his best on a standard frame bicycle.
    
    A note of historical whoopee: 
    
    I don't remember the exact dates but I believe it was in the late
    20's or early thirties: an early recumbent was entered into a world
    class bicycle race and devestated the entire pack, hence the race
    was rerun, recumbents where outlawed and interest in them wained.
                                                                       
    							* MAC *

    re: -.1 "a rider should be able to out-perform"  except on hills
    wherein the slackness of the seat apparently absorbs too much of
    the pressure.
    
    I've also heard that they are miserable in the rain -- or, rather,
    their riders are miserable in the rain.
    
    ed

    	Sorry to disagree, but recumbents are less efficient in using
    leg muscles than regular bikes.  It has to do with the Gluteus muscle
    (the one you sit on), a major power source.  It works to straighten
    the leg, about the hip hinge point. Due to human geometry, it works
    best when the leg is well bent (knee is near your chin). (Watch
     Weight lifters squat).  On a regular bike, in a crouch, you get
    very near the optimum strength position.  In a recumbent, you never
    get near this.  This results in your using the quads more and limits
    the maximum power you can put out.  This normally shows up only
    on hills or in a high power sprint.  So, you gain safety, comfort,
    and aerodynamics, and give up hill climbing ability.  I proved this
    in my streamliner where, for packaging reasons, I used a high bottom
    bracket position.  My Cat II rider said he could not put power down
    on the training bike (a DeFilice recumbent), but when folded up
    in the streamliner, he got the power down well. 
    	So, recumbents gain on downhills, gain slightly on the flat,
    and suffer on uphills or on brisk accelleration.
    	As far as safety, on a regular bike, you don't usually have
    a visability problem.  The driver normally sees the bike, looks
    elsewhere, forgets the bike, and hits the bike.  They do NOT
    forget you when you ride a recumbent (at least now-a-days). So,
    I feel as safe on the recumbent as on my diamond frame. - Chris
    

    
    I've had mine for 2 years. There are great except for 2 things:
    
    1) Getting started on a slope is no treat
    
    2) Due to the lack of compliance in the cleat-to-pedal
       attachment, knees tend to take more dynamic loading
       leading to more knee pain.
    
    Still, I wouldn,t go back to rat traps...
    
    Bob H

    RE: 362.11
    
    	Apparently my information on the efficiencies is out-dated.
    if anyone can point in the direction of some recent published info
    on the bio-mechanics of the recumbent position it would be greatly
    appreciated. I was lead to believe that the deficiencies experienced
    in hill climbing was due to not being fully adapted to the new riding
    position. Perhaps the last article I read was based on some
    manufacturers marketing brochures? Anyway, I still want one. Thanks
    again for being the "voice of experience" Chris!
    
    							     * MAC *

    	re. .13 :  The only 'hard' data that I've been able to find
    was from Joe Mastropolo (sp?), the biomechanics guy with the
    AeroVironment (Gossemer Condor, Albatross) team. He did ergonometer
    testing of various subjects in standard and recumbent positions.
    The training (on recumbent) factor seems to be quite important,
    but even for a trained rider, there was a decrease that became
    proportionally larger as power level increased. This was reported
    in the First IHPVA Symposium transcript. 
    	If anyone finds more relevant 'hard data', including the Glutus
    power f(leg extension), PLEASE COPY ME!!  - Chris
    	ps.  It's a bear trying to get a world class rider to train
    on a recumbent - valuable effort he/she 'd rather spend on their
    regular training.  So, until recumbents become legal for competition
    (other than IHPVA), good data may be hard to get.  I wonder if anyone's
    tested Freddy Markham (Goldrush rider). - C

    Hey, do any of you people who've upgraded have a good set of used
    pedals to sell?  I need some badly (like, by the end of this week!),
    and I'm not yet willing to toss out the $140+ for LOOKS and new shoes,
    or spend $50 for new pedals that aren't of the LOOK-compatible variety.
    
    I'm interested in used, quality racing/training pedals.  You can
    send mail, or call me at DTN 223-1268 if you have some to sell.
        
    MATT

    at last wk's GSC time trial, Chris Strode mentioned a desire to
    sell a pair of Pro Superbe's, if he's there tonight ask him what
    he wants.  You might be able to reach him at Happy Day Cycles in
    Milford after school.  He's the kid with the braces, Trek frame
    (interesting what we remember about some riders).
    
    ed