Conference noted::bicycle

    DENIS
    
    I had a similar dilema this past summer.  We wanted to take our
    daughter -<April 21,1986>- along on day trips.  
    
    We started out with a chest pouch, good for very short trips, but
    hard on the arms holding up that extra weight after a short while.
    
    All problems were solved with the purchase of a Bugger from Cannondale,
    $200 )-:, but well worth it.  We found that if we put her in the
    car seat and then strapped the car seat into the Bugger, it made
    for a smooth ride.  
    
    Our Bugger is rated for 180 lbs., and there is plenty of room for two 
    without the car seat.  It pulls nice except into a head wind and
    up a hill.  I am planning to put a granny gear on my bike before
    this season.  The other option is an ATB.
    
    Good Luck!
    
    Karl

    
    Thanks for the reply, Karl.  I am a little apprehensive about the
    buggers.  Do you think they're safe?  They look difficult for motorists
    to see and, since they are wider then bicycles, it would be difficult
    to "hug" the side of the road.  They also don't seem to offer much
    protection in case of a mishap.  I'm not trying to sound pessimistic,
    but there are a lot of dirt-bags out there driving cars.
    
    Except for the safety issue, they look like the perfect solution to
    the problem of where to put the kids!  
         
    Also, you mentioned that there's not enough room for 2 car seats.
    Do you usually only put one child in the bugger?
    
    Regards,
    Denis                                           

    Hi Denis,
    
    I'm definately pro BUGGER.  We own one and absolutley love it.
    
    Two conditions though.
    
    1) We alter our routes to accomodate the BUGGER.  Not always easy.
       I have no problem with the safety of the BUGGER in a crash but
       those 'dirt bag' drivers you mention.....
    
    2) Our BUGGER experience has been with our then 1.5, 3.5 year old
       kids.  We have a lovely addition now, who will be 4 months *young*
       by good riding wheather.  Although my wife always rides the shotgun
       position to monitor them, I'm a little hesitant about having
       the baby back there.  (I will look into the suggestion in .1
       though)
    
    Bottom line - The kids love it, we love - but thinking about leaving
    the baby with Grandma for some of those long weekend rides.

    
    /Greg
    

    I have a couple of questions about babies and helmets.  First of
    all, the helmets are sized by head circumference.  Considering that
    baby heads grow pretty quickly, does it make sense to buy the next
    bigger size and put extra thick pads in it?  (Right now she would
    fit the small size, but by next year, or even this fall, could easily
    be into the large size.)
    
    Also, is it really necessary for a one-year-old in a Bugger to wear
    a helmet?  I'm real pro-helmet, but is this a case of safety overkill?
    
    Kathy

>    all, the helmets are sized by head circumference.  Considering that
>    baby heads grow pretty quickly, does it make sense to buy the next
>    bigger size and put extra thick pads in it?  (Right now she would
>    fit the small size, but by next year, or even this fall, could easily
>    be into the large size.)

My two cents worth.....My grandchildren (4, 3 and 1 years old) all started
with the ProTek helmet I bought them for their (original) birthday. I 
bought the larger of the two sizes, and filled the void with the extra thick
removable pads. Works good, the helmet still fits, and the pads can be changed
as the tyke's head grows. Heads don't grow as fast as feet do, so I think
the next helmet I buy for them will be the grownup style, about 3 years
from now for the 4 year old.

    
>    Also, is it really necessary for a one-year-old in a Bugger to wear
>    a helmet?  I'm real pro-helmet, but is this a case of safety overkill?

Probably is safety overkill, unless you think that starting the tyke with
a helmet now creats the association early that bikes and helmets go together.
(Think of how the world would be different if Reg's mother and father did
the same! )

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- :^) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    
    RE: .4
    
    Is it possible for a bugger to tip over?  If so, I don't think it
    is safety overkill.
    
    Chuck
    

    re .4	Well, you could buy the right sized helmet for now,
    and then get another one next year, by which time.... errr, y'know,
    start a hand_me_down chain.  This can get very expensive after a few years,
    but you get economy of scale on *EVERYTHING* !

    	Plan B	 Keep the helmet on the kid at all times to stop the
    head from growing.   Did some Orientals (no slur intended) really
    do that with kids' shoes ?

    	Plan C	The ever expanding helmet...  Wanna buy a low mileage
    Pro V1  and add lotsa padding ?
    
	Plan D	Drive to rides and leave the kid in the car for a few
    hours, this teaches 'em that cryin doesn't always get attention.
    
    
    	Seriously, she's cute and you should take every possible precaution
    with her.  Can I ride rear guard to make sure she's OK ?
    
    
    re .5	I'll ignore it, (though just saying this dignifies it
    with a bit of a reply)

    	Reg
    
    

    I bought a helmet for my 2 year old son last year.  He is just about
    ready for a new one, at which point we'll hang on to the old one
    for our 4 month old daughter to use next year.
    
    Before getting the helmet last year, we priced a few of the children's
    helmets on the market.  As with most of the Bell helmets, the Lil'
    Bell Shell was definitely over priced at $35.00.  After shopping
    around for awhile, we came across an identical generic version
    of the Lil' Bell Shell for $14.95.  It's called the Kiddie Cap.
    I know what you're thinking:  "Why put a second rate piece of junk
    on my kid's head?"   Well, the Kiddie Cap is identical to the Bell
    helmet in every way that we could observe.  While we couldn't do
    crash tests, the helmet is SNELL certified.  So I say "Why not?"
    
    I'm now looking around for a hard shell helmet for my son.  Any
    suggestions?
    
    Thanks,
    Denis
    

    We've been using the smallest (adult?) Brancale helmet we found in a
    Nashbar catalog for our 2- and 5-year olds.  A little wobbly, maybe.
    Can't recall if it's SNELL or not.  We paid $17 or so 1 or 2 years ago.

>    I know what you're thinking:  "Why put a second rate piece of junk
>    on my kid's head?"   Well, the Kiddie Cap is identical to the Bell


My two cents: I think the Bell is a piece of junk. This helmet is designed
for kids????? Look at it carefully. one swipe with a hard object will dent,
scratch and probably crush the thing. 
Nope, for me, I want the hard shell $35 helmets on MY grandkids! None of
these soft mushy sponges for me!


Just puttin my $0.02 into the pot.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=gary=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    RE .10
    
    We went with that model because there wasn't a right size hard shell
    helmet available anywhere that we looked.  While the hard shell
    helmets certainly supply more protection, I think the type in question
    is tougher then you give it credit for.  I don't think they put
    SNELL stickers on just any old helmet.  
    
    Denis

    
    	re	Buggers, of the trailering kind....    The newer Cannondale
    Bugger 4 looks to be a considerable improvement on the old black
    one.  It is *BRIGHT* and if kept clean should catch the eye of just
    about "THE" most inattentive car driver.  It also either has spoke
    guards to keep little fingers out of the wheels or disk wheels,
    I couldn't tell from the catalogue picture.  Anyone with the old
    model should seriously consider a paint job and some kind of finger
    guards over the wheels, perhaps the "faking disks" we see advertized
    for unsanctioned time trials could be adapted, that would be a good
    use for them.  I have also seen a description somewhere of a way
    to use shrink wrap on spoked wheels, again for unsanctioned events,
    perhaps that could provide finger protection.
    
    	Reg
    

    Denis,
    
    Sorry for the late repy...  I think that most of your questions
    have been answered, but...
    
    The Cannondale isn't much wider than a bike, pedals, person
    combination.  I also use a mirror to watch the approaching traffic,
    and my wife usually rides shotgun.  We stay on the back roads as
    much as possible.  This summer I am adding a flag to the bugger
    in order to increase visibility.  If it doesn't add undo drag it
    will stay.
    
    We find that the sight of a bike pulling a trailer with a kid in
    it gets plenty of attention.
    
    Sun seems to be the only problem.  Cannondale has a tent-like device
    that might solve the problem
    
    The bicycle with a bugger on it seems stabler -<more stable>- than
    without.  I have dropped one wheel of the pavement onto the gravel
    with no ill effects.  -<slight heart failure, but its nice to know
    that it works>-
    
    Yes I only put one car seat in it, no I am not ready for another
    kid to put in the other car seat that won't fit in the bugger anyway.
    
    karl                            
                   
    

    I just bought a Bell Shell helmet for my 18month old, a Troxel carrier,
    and found a used Schwinn Suburban 5 speed.  Couldn't see putting
    a child seat on an Italian racing bike.  After riding a couple of
    times over the weekend, my wife, my daughter, and I love the setup.
    The helmet fits fine with the thickest pads, and doesn't seem 
    uncomfortable as I get no howls of protest.  This isn't so great
    for hilly centuries, but I foresee up to 20 or 30 mile rides this
    summer.  Another plus: my wife no longer complains about the pace.