Conference noted::bicycle

>    	2.ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET ONE FOR UNDER $200.00?

	You can probably find a 5/10/12/15 speed for under $200.
	Remove the brakes and deraileurs.  Fill the freewheel
	with epoxy.  Glue the freewheel to the rear hub (more 
	epoxy) so it won't unscrew when you try to slow down.
	Select a gear and shorten the chain to match. :-)

			-John Wasser

	P.S.  How do they attach the gear on a track bike so it
	doesn't unscrew when you 'apply the breaks'?

    Track bikes use a special hub that has a narrower threaded section
    where the freewheel would go on a regular hub. The single cog (without
    frewheel) threads onto this section. Outside of the cog, the hub
    is reduced in diameter and is threaded left-handed. A special locking
    ring (looks like the lock ring for a movable BB cup) threads on
    and presses against the cog. Pedalling forward pulls the cog onto
    the threads, keeping it tight. Pedalling backwards or braking tries
    to unthread the cog, which then tries to turn the lock ring with
    it. Since the lock ring is left hand thread, this serves to tighten
    it against the cog, preventing it from moving.
    
    You can cheat for spring training by using a regular hub. Get a
    track cog with the appropriate number of teeth. Thread it onto your
    hub, then thread on a bottom bracket lock ring. Pull the cog up
    tight, then pull the lock ring up tight against it. This isn't as
    foolproof as the genuine article, but spring training in a fixed
    gear should be somewhat less demanding than sprinting with Nelson
    Vails.
    
    Using an overweight clunker frame is not a real good idea since
    you should be able to find a Raleigh Super Course or other decent
    frame (used, of course) pretty cheaply.
    
    There are (or were) some inexpensive track bikes on the market.
    Paul Randazzo at Category 1 Cyclegoods was selling a Viener (sp?)
    made in Italy for about $300 if I remember correctly. He has one
    for his own use and it is a very decent training bike.

    re .1
    
    - Why not leave the brakes on the bike. They might prove useful
    on a road bike.
    
    - Why not fit a single fixed gear to the threads on which you normally
    fit the freewheel. You should really fit a lockring but you can
    proably get away without it.
    
    - If you modify a five speed wheel to a fixed you may have to re-dish
    the wheel and alter the spacings on the axle.
    
    I have friend building me a 'fixed' racer as described above from
    parts lying about in his 'dining room'. We could start a whole new
    notes file just discussing his dining room !!!.
    
    If he manages to get this thing built before I die (slow worker)
    I hope to find out how good it is as a training bike.
    
    Now did anybody mention what gear to use - how about 65 inches.
    
    (just been reading about 120 tooth chainrings but I will have to
    work up to one of those - probably good for bikeling down Everest)
    
    Mike
    

    I didn't think people still rode fixed gear bikes on the road. 
    It used to be encouraged for spring training, the theory being
    that it forced you to spin, thus developing pedaling technique.
    Since then, I read that it was still a good idea to do spring
    training in lower gears, some times enforced by putting a single
    cog on, but making it a freewheel.  The thinking here was that
    the fixed gear made it easier to only apply power on the 
    downstroke.  
    	While it is loads of fun to descend a hill on a trackbike
    fitted with a 65 and backpedal to a stop at the intersection
    at the bottom, I don't know what training value it has.
    

    
    Then you just haven't ridden one enough.
    
    Training bennies:
    
    forces you to concentrate on a smooth spin and power transfer
    
    Keeps you out of dangerously high gears when your muscles are weak
    and tendons/joints are not well supported by them
    
    track bikes use short cranks, less leverage available so you really
    have to work to climb
    
    short cranks also make developing your jump easier, great for sprint
    work
    
    track bikes are also short wheelbase, very harsh riding on the road, will
    condition your derriere for the many miles ahead
    
    maintenance is much easier, just spray with gumout and hit it with
    a hose, great for the dirty NE spring

    There are many more reasons, as you can see I'm a F/G advocate.
    BTW I use a Urago frame (carbon steel seamed tubing, rusty) with
    mostly Campy Piste components except the wheels which are Pellisier/
    Mavic Sport($4.00 each!). Total cost was $140.
    
    Don't knock it until you try it. Riding F/G takes some getting used
    to.
    
    CdH
    
    

    
    	Guilty, but not lately.   Longest day ride in recent years,
    double metric, fairly hilly.  Have brakes but, as any fixed wheel
    snob knows, its a matter of pride to never use them.  Was riding
    51 x 19, with a 16 on the flip side, up until end of '84.
    
    	Reg
    

    
    I rode a fixed gear during early season training for two years.
    Really enjoyed it.  
    
    Raced on one once in a criterium -- one of the most painful
    experiences of my life -- it used these strange muscles I didn't know
    I had inside my thighs -- couldn't sit or stand for the rest of the day.
    Never again.     
                                                   
    Train in a 48/21: equivalent to a 42/18 or so.
    
    Chuck       
    

    re .1,	Epoxy is pretty heavy in the quantities required to
    		fill a freewheel...

My track bike is an old Nishiki touring frame, DB tubing, 43" wheelbase.
For a while I used a derailleur hub, fixed cog and bottom bracket 
lockring (REQUIRED for this to work); now have a real track hub. Track
bikes seem to be kinda hard on spokes; keep in mind if building track
wheels for training. Bike also comes with 1 brake (front) and 1 fender
(rear), clincher tires. Great for sloppy weather commutes; essential for
icy weather commutes. Fixed gear gives more control for stopping in the
slippery, by my reckoning.....

                                 keep on trackin'
                                 ken

    RE: .2 etc.
    
    I'd like to try riding a fixed gear bike early next year.
    Track cog and BB locking ring on a regular hub sounds like a good
    plan.  Although I might be able to find the locking ring, I've never
    even seen a track cog. Can anyone suggest a good place to find these
    parts (or a whole fixed wheel for that matter)?
    
    Thanks,
           Nick B...

    re .10	Depends where you are located.  ASIC:: doesn't suggest
    a geographic location to me.

    	BB lock ring on a "regular hub" (whatever that is) sounds dangerous
    as all hell to me.  Spend the bucks and do it right, last thing you
    want is it all coming undone at 25 + MPH.
    
    	Anyway, now is a good time to be looking for fixed gear stuff.
    The gift shopping stuff is over with and fixed for spring training
    is what bike shops should be stocking up on.  Find out where your
    local racers hang_out/buy_their_stuff, thats where to shop for a
    track hub.  International in Alston ahs it all, OK if you're near
    to Boston.
    
    	Reg
    

    
    	I just rediscovered this old topic.  As noted elsewhere I have
    "had another relapse"  and bought another fixed wheel bike.  Its
    slower and harder, but I've come up to condition faster this year
    than in the past 3 or 4 (verified by timed rides on the derailleur
    equiped bike).  I love the extra control, I can tuck in behind someone
    (that I trust) and hold within a a couple of inches of their wheel
    for a long time without having to grab for a brake if they back off a
    bit and then catch back the lost 12 or 18 inches again, speed/spacing
    control is accurate at microscopic levels and its a lot less stressful
    than trying to do it with brakes.  I'm also back into jumping railroad
    tracks, the technique of riding up on the rear pedal to gain body
    height while losing speed, then pulling the bike up makes for some
    Loonnnngggg jumps, just not practical with a freewheel and brakes.  I
    seem to gain ~100ft of road distance over other riders at track
    crossings. 
    
    	I'm dead against any of the epoxied freewheel suggestions, they
    cost you a hub, they COULD come all undone at the worst possible moment
    and it costs no more to get a wheel threaded fixed on one side with six
    speed on the other, so you may as well do it right.  I saw some of
    these wheels made up at Goodale's in Nashua a couple of weeks ago, I
    didn't ask the price, but its the cheapest way to try fixed riding,
    since you get a whole "regular" rear wheel to use if you don't like it. 
    
    	Reg
    
    

    	Well, it took me a year, but this past weekend I picked myself
    up a combination fixed/freewheel rear wheel with a 15 tooth cog on it
    (did it right at International Reg).
    
    	First, I mounted it with too much slack, which allowed the chain
    to slip.  However, when I tried to remove two links, that made the
    chain too short.  So I replaced my 39 tooth chain wheel with a
    42.  This barely allows me enough chain length to safely attach
    my rear wheel to the rear dropout of my Cannondale.
    	Damn near killed myself on the first test ride.... I tried to
    "coast" after a standing sprint up a hill!
    
    	I'm still a little concerned about this setup so I have a few
    questions;
    
    	Do only certain freewheel/cog combinations work on a bike of a 
    given chainstay length?  
    	Is there any way to determine this other than experimentation?  
    	Is it worth it to remove the derailleur until spring?
    	How does one slow down sans brakes?  All I can do is the reverse
    of a jerky pumping motion.  Will I eventually develop a smooth 
    pedalling in "resisting circles"?
	What else should I know?    	
    
   	Nick B...

    ps - Reg, if you jump RR tracks do you peddle in the air, or rip your
    legs off when you land and have to peddle at 25 mph again?  For the 
    forseable future this is a purely academic question.

>    	Is it worth it to remove the derailleur until spring?
>    	How does one slow down sans brakes?  All I can do is the reverse
>    of a jerky pumping motion.  Will I eventually develop a smooth 
>    pedalling in "resisting circles"?

I've ridden a fixed gear bike for several years, at one point riding 20 
mi a day commuting in Washington DC. I NEVER got to be able to stop the 
bike well without brakes. I'd recommend getting at least a front brake 
if you're planning to ride out in general society. For me, it seemed 
like reverse pedalling was the moral equivalent of about 1/2 of a brake 
for stopping power.

Take the derailleur off! Saves wear, looks kool, and by spring you 
wouldn't want to put it back anyway! :-)

                               ken

>    	First, I mounted it with too much slack, which allowed the chain
>    to slip.  However, when I tried to remove two links, that made the
>    chain too short.  So I replaced my 39 tooth chain wheel with a
>    42.  This barely allows me enough chain length to safely attach
>    my rear wheel to the rear dropout of my Cannondale.

I've never riden one so...  Does the Cannondale have vertical dropouts?  If so
then it doesn't seem like there is any way to adjust the chain.  Seems that you
need the "normal" dropouts where there is about an inch of movement which
should be more than enough.  Don't track bikes have dropouts that open straight
back?

Having ridden a fixed wheel bike for years I think I can add some
knowledge here.

>>    	How does one slow down sans brakes?  Will I eventually develop 
>>    	a smooth pedalling in "resisting circles"?

Yes. Although it will never be as good a brakes.

>>	What else should I know?    	

Two words of caution.

1) Make sure the rear sprocket is as tight as possible and then put a
second "toothless sprocket" to lock it in.

2) Remember that you will be pedaling all the way through the turns.
Use shorter cranks if you have them or never forget to slow down...


Ken

    
    	Yeah, WayTaGo !
    
    	Only an opinion, but I'd guess you're geared a bit high.  Awww,
    I  *_KNOW_*  it feels kinda weird to be spinning so fast  ALL THE
    TIME, but its a thing you get used to, just don't try to ride as
    fast as you used to  ...YET !   Try to get down closer to mid/low
    60 gear inches, for now anyway.  Re braking, yes, it takes a while
    to develop smooth hold back 'resistance circles', whatever.  It
    also takes a while to develop the other sets of muscles that you
    need for this - another reason for lower gearing.  As a very rough
    check, you should be able to lock the rear wheel at ~12 - 15 MPH
    on a decent road surface, if not then gear down until your holding
    back muscle group develops more.  I like to use a chainring closer
    to 50 teeth, it makes 1 tooth rear cog changes smaller.  Re; taking
    the rear shifter off til spring - why put it back on, EVER ?:-^)
    Re;  landing after jumping railroad tracks - Oh, I just lay a 30ft
    strip of rubber(Yuk, yuk, yuk; well, you DID ask).

    	Reg
    

Re: .17

> I like to use a chainring closer to 50 teeth, it makes 1 tooth rear
> cog changes smaller. 
> 
>     	Reg

Aw, c'mon, Reg, don't pull that line.  A change from 14 to 15 teeth in 
the back is exactly the same percentage of difference, regardless of
what size the chainring is, namely 7.143%.  It's also exactly the same
amount of chain takeup change, namely one-half of a link. 

- Dick

    re .18	Nah to your nah !  
    
    	What I had mean was if one is running on about a 50 tooth wheel
    up front then the cog at the back will be closer to 20 than the
    16 or so that one would use with a 40 or so toothed wheel up front.
    i.e.  5%'ish  steps  vs  7%'ish.
    
    	QED & all that stuff ?, right, lets ride.
    

Re: .19

Okay, now I see what you mean.  You're right, and it also makes a setup
that will last longer because it suffers slightly less wear.  So let's 
ride!

- Dick

    	I've been using a fixed rear wheel since December, although
    I didn't do very much riding until February.  This is the first
    year I've used a fixed wheel.
    	I believe it's helped me get into shape faster with less stress
    on my knees than in previous years.
    	However, at some point I believe I will be getting diminishing
    returns from continued fixed riding.  I've put on ~600 miles including 
    a couple ~50 mile rides, and I'm starting to get tired of "fixed 
    wheeling".
    
    The question;
    
    	When do you put on you put on your freewheel back on and why?

    I am a real believer in the benefits of fixed gear training.  I
    started using one when I lived and raced in Southern California.
    
    The fixed gear is best used as you begin to build your mileage base
    before the season begins.  I always use it for 1-2 months.  Out
    west I'd put it on in December and remove it at the end of January,
    with about 800-1200 miles on.  Out here, this season, I started
    with it about the middle of January and took it off about the middle
    of March with about 500 miles on.
    
    The fixed gear helps develop a nice round pedaling style and a smooth
    spin.  However, if you're into racing, you also need to be concerned
    about speed, strength, climbing, sprinting, etc.,  and a fixed gear
    won't give you those.
                                                        
    That's my 2 cents worth.
    
    Jim

    I took the plunge today and went 14 miles on a fixed gear set-up.
    It was BIG fun.  It certainly takes concentration.  I had never
    realized how often I coasted.  For instance, when raising to sort 
    out the wrinkles in your shammy--I almost killed myself!
    
    I also get about a quarter inch off of the saddle to go over a bump.
    I just have to get used to raising up while keeping my feet moving.
    I think I'm going to enjoy this...
    
    FWIW:  A few pointers that I'll watch out for next time.
    
    1.  Give other riders enough space to "let-up", or in a worst case,
        cut you off.
    
    2.  Even though I used my "trash-bike" I'm going to switch my
        strapless peddles from my good bike over to it.  I had to
        pull out of the binding once, and I had to lean on a mail box
        before I could get resituated.  I just couldn't follow that peddle
        around with my foot at 90 r.p.m.--forget strapping in!  I'd welcome
    	any hints!  
    
    3.  RELAX!  I found that relaxing my legs on hard downhills was more
    	effective than trying to spin at 120 r.p.m.  I still expect to
    	go through some brake shoes this winter : )
    
    
    r�

    r�,
    
    Welcome to the converts !  Fun isn't it, what gears are you using ?
    
>  I'd welcome any hints!                                            
    
    Track-stands ?
    
    FWIW I always use Looks for f-w (because I cannot track-stand), I also
    have to use my good bike since my other bike has vertical drop-outs.
    
    Do you find that when `coasting' you are stretching your hamsstrings
    much more than ususal ?
    
    /rod

    
    
    Little hint (you may already be doing it, if so ignore me...):-
    
    Have you got brake calipers that have the little adjuster to change the
    distance from the rim to brake block? If so, set it up so that when it's
    closest it's actually rubbing the rim. When descending flick it to it's
    closest setting so that you are in effect constantly braking while
    descending. Let's the mind concentrate on other things such as keeping
    pedalling...
    
    Graham.

I've had two fixed gear wheels that I built. The first I sold to Mark Reid who 
is in this conference whne I needed some money. The fixed gear wheel I built this 
past time was from an inexpensive Mallard track hub. I took out the solid short
axel and put in a normal 7 speed hollow axel with spacers. For the rim I looked 
around for a good box section rim with strong double eyelets. The rim takes 
more of a beating than a regular rear wheel does, so build it stronger than 
normal. I found an old tubluar rim that was just what I wanted. Tubluar tires 
are great for soaking up road imperfections. They also hold the road better than a 
clincher. With normal three cross lacing I built my wheel in an evening.

Riding:

The first time you ride a fixed gear you want to find a flat as possible route.
It's not the up hills that get you but the down hills. Just get used to being
fixed before riding any serious training rides. Find out what gear you can use
by using your regular bike in that gear all the way through your training loop.
Just remember that you don't want to use a gear to low that will cause you to 
spin uncontrolled on the down hills. Most of all have fun.

T

    
    Thanks for the help.  Yes, I was surprised to find that the down-
    hills made me more apprehensive than the uphills.  The tip about
    letting the brake shoes rub is great!  
    
    Yes, my hamstrings felt like it was a twenty-four miler, not 
    fourteen.  I figured it had more to do with how tense I was than
    what kind of work I was doing(?)
    
    I am using a 42X15 (75.6 inches) with a very broad chain.  The hills 
    around the Alpharetta CSC are mostly 1/2 mile or less in length.  I 
    normally use a 52/42 x 13/23 in this area.  I am using a wired-on
    Weinmann box rim with an old Shimano 600 hub that I got "second
    hand" from a bike shop.  I have an old Mavic front wheel in a closet 
    that I plan to mount a tire on so that trash my "so-fine" MA40/Dura-
    Ace front wheel by slamming over hazards...
    
    This was just going to be an experiment for me, so I was trying to
    keep as much of the "good stuff" off of the bike as possible.  Judging
    from the components mentioned, you guys are heavily committed to this
    BONZAI!!! form of training.  I plan to put in five or six hundred
    miles like this before going back to the freewheel.
    
    
    Thanks for the encouragement!
    
    r�

    I've been doing some asking around and it seems that most of the
    people riding F/G are using a 70 gear or lower.  I am doing this 
    for the first time and I chose a 76 gear--more of a blind choice
    than the macho choice.  Maybe you guys have steeper hills than we
    do?
    
    On the other hand, while I am quite comfortable with my 42x15 set-up,
    I don't ride it nearly as FAR as some of you have mentioned that you
    ride.  I do a couple of lunch hour rides (14+ miles) and a 25 mile 
    weekend ride in addition to cross-training (swim/bike).
    
    So far so good.  Am I headed for trouble?  or does my configuration
    somehow cause me to miss out on some of the benefits of F/G riding?
    
    r�

    
    What revs are you doing. If you are averaging 90-100 revs on the flat,
    then wahetever suits you. If you are usually a big gear masher and this
    gear lets you mash at the same rate I'd advise you to gear down a
    little. This is a good time to try and spin more (which IMHO, is the
    better way to ride) and will also lessen the chance of knee injury as
    the cold sets (has already set?) in.
    
    Graham.

    Thanks for the info.  My revs vary greatly, of course. On my 
    "beaten path" there are at least four downhills in which I am 
    sure I hit 120+ rpm's, but I've taken the cadence gadget off 
    of that bike.  I've used cadence extensively, so I have a rough 
    feel for what my spin rate is.  It drops to around 60 on the 
    uphills.  I tend to spin a bit higher in the level areas than
    I would have shifted into if I'd had a freewheel & dreaileurs!
    
    Anybody out there ever noticed how "big" cyclists seem to have
    more difficulty keeping a high cadence than others?  I normally
    spin in the mid eighties ( 6'0" 195 lbs.).  This F/G riding has
    smoothed the "bounce" out at a higher rate, though.