Conference noted::bicycle

For bottom brackets: "French", "Italian", etc. refer to the threading 
size and direction. Used to have the darn things memorized, but you know 
how that goes.... but some general guidelines:

French BBs are usually found on French (and some German) bikes.

Italian BB - Italian bikes, a few custom American frames.

Swiss BB - think they gave up on trying to promote these

English BB - Eng., Japanese, many American bikes, and those without 
political ties to the previously mentioned countries.

Differences involve both threading and direction of threading. Basically 
the threads on the two cups should be opposing - one CW, one CCW, so 
that the forces exerted on the BB don't tend to screw one side out and 
the other in (I've seen that happen a time or two). English threading 
seemed to be the most reasonable in this regard, if I recall. I think 
Swiss was exactly opposite (i.e completely wrong) while Fr and Italian 
I think were threaded the same on each side, only 1/2 wrong. French 
threads are enough smaller that if you strip the BB shell, you can 
sometimes rethread the shell with Italian threads (larger). If you have 
an existing BB it is often labeled with something like "1.24 x 10" which 
translates to one of the above. If you have an empty frame looking for a 
BB, try out BOTH cups for fit: I recall that two of the standards had 
virtually the same thread size, but one was CW/CCW, the other CW/CW so 
that ONE SIDE was incompatible.....

Fun stuff. Hope I didn't make a serious blunder in the above, been a 
while. For the exact specs, check one of the manuals.....

                                        'Njoy,
                                        ken

    Actually, you raise two seperate points, compatability between
    different component manufacturer's designs, and compatability 
    between the dimensional standards used in building bicycle frames.
                                                              
    Component compatability is a function of individual designer whimsy
    and marketing strategy (i.e., if you were designing a crankset,
    would you want the chainrings to be interchangeable with Campy?)
    Best place to find out about this is through some of the mail order
    catalogs.  The first one which comes to mind for me is Palo Alto
    Bike Shop.  Their catalog gives a good summary of basic
    interchangeability.
    
    Dimensional standards used by frame manufacturers are something
    which has developed over a long period of time within the countries
    where people were actively plying the frame building trade.  I don't
    know the whole history and would love to hear about it sometime,
    but the bottom line is that the basic standards (and there are three
    or four, depending on how you want to count them) are used as frame
    building conventions for such things as tubing size, dimensions
    and threading.  The reason for this obviously is so that components
    can be manufactured to fit any frame and vice versa.  You can get
    info on the standards from most any good bicycle service manual.
    I don't have any suggestions there, just check the rack at your
    favorite bike shop; you're bound to find one.
    
    FYI - the standards are;
    	British - used by the Americans (usually) and Japanese (all,
                  to my knowledge)
    	Italian - has different tubes sizes than British but same diameters
    		  and thread pitches.  CAREFUL here though, the thread
    		  dimensions are still different (don't make me explain
    		  it) so the threaded pieces can't always be interchanged
    		  without damaging something.
    	French  - which doesn't come near either of the ones above.
    	Swiss   - Now this is the one that is somewhat up in the air.
     		  Based on the information search I did on my Mondia
    		  (first "good" bike, purchased eons ago) the Swiss
    		  were using a strange amalgam of French tube sizes
    		  Italian threading.  They might have changed this by
    		  now.
    
    And you thought you'd asked a perfectly reasonable, simple question.
    Reasonable yes, simple no.
    
    Jim
    

While we're on standards, REAR DROPOUTS used to be an exciting field 
too. While the world used "the Campy" standard for hanging rear 
derailleurs, the French were using the "Simplex" standards on most of 
their bikes. Only Simplex derailleurs would fit on bikes with Simplex 
dropouts. Simplex derailleurs would not fit on anybody else's dropouts. 
It seems like Simplex finally joined the planet, but it would be good to 
be cautious about buying an older French bike without knowing what kind of 
dropout hanger it has. Is Simplex still in business?????

                                  Cheers,
                                  ken

    
	The previous comments are mostly true, but I've seen some real
    strange combinations over the years, so nothing is sacred. For example,
    finding Italian threads on any brand bike is common because it's
    a standard fix for stripped threads, Italian is the largest diameter.
    
    The ( that's THE ) reference is Sutherland's Handbook for Bicycle
    Mechanics. Every shop has one, and you can buy them yourself although
    they're not cheap (around $35.00). I use mine all the time. If you
    need something looked up now and then I'll do it for you, but if
    you need this info often, you should buy one yourself for your sake
    as well as mine.
    
    Besides the book, you should have a metric thread pitch gauge and
    an assortment of used parts to use as standards.
    
    Re: Simplex
    
    They were bought out by Mavic.
    
    CdH
    
    

Ah yes, the greatest subject to consume manhours since the invention of
camera mounts -- I wonder which came first.  The thing bike part manufacturers
don't do is provide a full line of adapters.

Sutherlands 3rd edition (blue) can be had for ~ $35 from a few mailorder
shops.  That's because the 4th edition (red) is out.  I got mine from Sutherland
for (I think) $45.  The biggest addition is that they list more rims in
the rim chart.  Several corrections are also included.  You can also get
an upgrade kit for a better price.

You have 3 things to consider for any thread issue.  Diameter of threading,
threads per inch, pitch of threads and direction.  Then you have class
(quality) of fit. 

Class A -- perfect match
Class B -- will cause some damage to the mating parts but they'll
	   still work
Class C -- will cause permanent damage to the parts.

For example, the difference between British and Italian threads is the
pitch of the thread cut (60 degrees vs 55).  The diameters of British
and Italian hubs is the same and the threads per inch is the same but
the pitch of the threads is different, so mix and match causes a class B
fit.  After causing a class B fit, say British freewheel on Italian hub,
you should not continue changing the fit, say by interchanging Italian
and British freewheels on the same hub, because this keeps reworking the
thread pitch on the softer component, the hub.

If you owned a bike shop and something came in the door that you never saw
before and the proud owner wanted it overhauled, Sutherland's would have
such things as "number and size of balls in headset, bottom bracket,
hubs."  You would have to determine the make of each of the componenets, 
though.  Sutherland's also explains the best way to disassemble, reassemble
several of the bizzarre things that we ten-speeders don't use too often,
like coaster brakes, multi-speed hubs, etc.

Another great interchangeability issue is chainrings.  Any questions,
send me mail, I'll look it up, or post it and someone will answer.

    
    - Another vote for Sunderlands.  A great book for bikies.
    
    - Actually, if we're getting technical about threading, there are
    even more parameters than mentioned so far.  There is also the "shape"
    of the thread.  Two bolts could be the same diameter, pitch, direction
    and fit class, but have different shape threads.  See picture...
    (Although this doesn't really come up too often with bike parts.) 
                  
    
    One shape:       /--\         
                    /    \
                          
    
    Another shape:    /\
                     /  \
    
    
    Chuck

    Re: 0 -- Don't know where your physical location is, but the LTN1
    library has (or at least had last time I looked!) a copy of
    Sutherland's manual.
    
    dq

    re .7	It is my understanding that *ANY* dec library will buy
    *ANY* book that *ANY* employee requests, no questions asked.
    
    	Reg
    

    I just went to the LTN1 Library (about 6 meters from my office)
    and asked the the Sutherland's Handbook.  The librarian said that
    they used to have something that sounded like it.  When looked up
    in the computer, there was nothing related to bicycles by any authors
    named Sutherland in any of the DEC libraries.....And it would have
    been so nice to have a copy available for free.
    
    
    -Jeff Bell-------who knows where his towel is.

    re .9	I too am in LTN-1, a similar number of metres from the
    library (SSW of it).  I have never seen the Sutherlands' in there,
    but have been informed by a "reliable source" (one of the original
    requesters) that it is held by the LTN-1 library.

    	Reg