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Conference noted::atm

Title:atm
Moderator:NPSS::WATERS
Created:Mon Oct 05 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:970
Total number of notes:3630

927.0. "VNSWITCH EA AND T1 MODPHY" by NNTPD::"[email protected]" () Tue Apr 29 1997 21:47

Hi,

We have two different site at which we plan to use VNSwitches in DECHUB
900. We would like to have the two sites connected via the VNswitch EAs
using the T1 ModPHY and have ATM brige tunnel between the two sites so
that we can have up to 16 ELAN accross the two sites. What I am trying to do
is
extend VLANS between two sites accros the WAN so that that I would have VLANS 
(or broadcast domains) spanning two sites accross a WAN. I am wondering if we 
can use the T1 ModPHY on the VN-EA to interconnect the two sites accross a
WAN.
If so, how would I go about configuring this ? Would I need the CSU/DSU to be 
connected to a full T1 (use all channels ) or can I have the CSU/DSU use only 
Fractional T1 (would the EA T1 Modphy adjuct to the speed or is it irelevant
?)


Would that be a stable configuration ? I would like to get some comments
from people doing something similar. 

I am also interested in having some redundancy in case the T1 fails. 

If we cannot use the VN/EA with the T1 modphy to accomplish this, what
would be an alternative so that I can spn the VLANS setup on the VNSwitch 
accross the WAN.

Our config would be something like this


DECHUB site A                        

DS EE EE EE EE EE EA EA                 
                      !         
                      !  T1     
                      !  or FT1 (connected to T1 MODPHY)
DECHUB site B         !
DS EE EE EE EE EE EA EA

Is this a supported configuration and if not what are the alternatives

I may be using the second EA ATM port for a redundant link.


Tx

Michel
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[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]
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927.1Is T1 enough BW for 16 VLAN's?NPSS::HUTCHISONTue Apr 29 1997 23:1849
    You can do it, I'm not sure you'll be happy.   There are a few
    issues unrelated to the VNswitch.  
    
    - there might be a significant amount of multicast traffic required
    by 16 Elans.  The multicast traffic could easily exceed the bandwidth 
    of a T1 link... only 1.5 Mb/s of raw BW.   In terms of user BW,
    protocol efficency may be low (eg, for small packets) so the actual
    application saturates at about 1Mb/s.
    
    The traffic level is strongly related to the end station
    population and application.   16 is a pretty large number, I assume
    there's a significant number of end stations.   You'll need to 
    characterize multicast traffic levels and see if a T1 is enough for
    for any actual user data.   This is a "LAN problem"... that's why 
    routers are so popular in the WAN (terminate multicast domain).
    
    
    - delay might be enormous and this could heavily impact LAN operation.
    The applications run on a LAN are sometimes not tolarant of delay...
    the notorious example is LAT.   Email is ok... everything else is in
    between.
    
    The distance between sites affects this ( add > 5uS/KM each way).   
    If the sites are close, no problem.  Unless, of course, the phone
    company routes the T1 through a satelite... most satelites today are
    FEO, about 40K miles I believe.   
    
    - T1 is a major bottleneck between two high performance LAN pieces.
    The EA's support a large number of 10Mb/s segments, the aggregate
    switched BW for each VNswitch is > 100 x the T1 link.  It's difficult
    to imagine an application/configuration where high capacity VLANS'
    span two sites but only 1.5Mb/s is needed to suppport the users... 
    even given the traffic filtering of the switches.   Consider a large
    file transfer, say 10 Mbytes.  For a local operation this would take
    about 10 seconds even it the switch had a lot of other traffic
    concurrently.    Across the T1, this will be 100 seconds in absence
    of other traffic.   If congestion occurs, might never happen.
    
    On the bright side - The T1 modPHY should work fine with the VN-ea.
    It's only the T1 bottleneck I question...
    
    Related to fractional T1 - modPHY modules generally operate ATM, not
    fractional anything.   Fractional generally relates to a "structured
    channel", meaning TDM which is the opposite of ATM.  ATM  typically 
    uses "clear channel" service.   Clear channel means you lease the
    whole line.   Some phone companies are offering usage-based charges
    on ATM but this is not common yet.
    
    
927.2VN/EA and T1 ModphyOTOOA::kap430.kao.dec.com::mbakerCould be better...but would cost more!Wed Apr 30 1997 12:2737
  Hi,

Tx for replying to my Question.

>   - there might be a significant amount of multicast traffic required
>   by 16 Elans.  The multicast traffic could easily exceed the bandwidth 

I will not have a lot of stations on these VLANS (Maybe 5-20max on each VLANS). 
So I do not expect to have a lot of multicast/broadcast traffic.

    
>    Related to fractional T1 - modPHY modules generally operate ATM, not
>    fractional anything.   Fractional generally relates to a "structured
>    channel", meaning TDM which is the opposite of ATM.  ATM  typically 
>    uses "clear channel" service.   Clear channel means you lease the
>    whole line.   Some phone companies are offering usage-based charges
>    on ATM but this is not common yet.
    
   
 So , if I understand properly we have to use the full T1 as a clear channel and
the VNSwitch will run ATM only over a full T1. 

See I thought it would be possible to use only a few channels from the T1, then
 these channels would terminate on the CSU/DSU and the CSU/DSU would connect to the
VN/EA ATM port at T1 speed (I know that the ATM port will not do TDM and use a few
 channels).

Would I require a special cable to adapt the T1 Modphy interface to the CSU/DSU ??

How would you configure this for redundancy ?


Tx


Michel