Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    That's been happening for some while now.
    
    I've made it from Southend to Cornwall without touching a motorway, but
    it is very difficult, the planners will always use signs to try and get
    traffic onto a motorway and off of the A & B roads, especially through
    towns.
    
    	Tony B.

    ... and this will become more and more common if Motorway tolls are
    introduced!!!!
    
    mb

    I thought the A33 WAS the M3 from just above Winchester, to just below
    where the M27 branches off.  Unless the A33 is the road that goes
    parallel to the motorway.
    
    I think there's just too many roads nowadays.  It took me 2 years to
    figure out the difference between the A33 and the A30 between
    Basingstoke and Winchester and I live just off the main road  :-)
    
    tmp

    The A33 from Basingstoke to Winchester does indeed run very close to
    the M3 all the way.  After that, I think the road changes when they
    built the new piece of M3 destroyed bits of the A33 (well,  it looks
    like this from the M3).
    
    They did the same thing when the M11 was built.  The old A11 became the
    B something or other (1130?) and it was only possible to follow it
    if you remembered it before the number change.  I also expect that when
    motorways become toll roads,  all road signs will mysteriously forget
    the local routes (so Basingstoke to Reading becomes M3/M25/M4 :-)
    
    Jc
    

>    They did the same thing when the M11 was built.  The old A11 became the
>    B something or other (1130?) and it was only possible to follow it

between Harlow and Bishop's Stortford it's the A1184, I don't know about
the rest of it, though!

Chris.

    If the signs do disappear, and motorway tolls start, rest assured that
    some enterprising soul will start producing maps of alternative routes.
    It's a free-market remember.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

I don't find it a problem when we're in the car - as it's then easy to read the
map, and follow the the signs to smaller towns/villages - (Although it amazes me
the number of people who travel round without a road atlas!)  The problem is
when on the motorbike - and you can't have the map open on your knee! On long
trips we write out a route plan, but if someone has inconsiderately built a
bypass you often need the names of the smaller places to re-find your chosen
route. :-)

re .0 and .7

As you appear to realise, the point of motorways is to keep people off the A 
and B roads.  THe MOT/DOT/whatever only see the need to signpost you to the 
motorway, so that once you are on the motorway, you can head to your 
destination.  They don't understand why anyone would not want to use the 
motorways.

    re.8
    
    On the news I get the impression they want the motorways used by people
    travelling long distances.  They want to deter people who use them for
    hopping just along 1 or 2 junctions.  This didn't make sense to me, cos
    I use the M3 as a Basingstoke bypass.  I take offence that the powers
    that be now want me to clog up Basingstoke even more by driving through
    it, using more petrol etc.
    
    tmp

    
    I normally travel outbound on motorways & homebound on A roads. The
    time differences are minimal if one keeps to legal speed limits.
    In fact some routes are even quicker by A road. Why do I do this ?
    
    I like to relax & travel home without hurrying. With lower speed, the
    radio is more audible & I can actually enjoy the journey.
     & I **HATE** motorway service areas. I'd rather go hungry. 
    Some of my most enjoyable mobile lunches have been spent in village pubs 
    beside A & sometimes b roads.
    
    The standard of motorway food is appauling, I have taken packed lunches
    on occasions where I have had to use motorways. 
    
    So, Elaine, I guess you will have to write your route down before you
    go. I use a crib-sheet & compass to get around. I have recently
    returned from a circular European tour using a minimum of Autoroutes
    etc., I didnt read the map for hours at a time. Does a compass work
    reliably on a bike ?
    
    Tony.

    
    Oh, & I had a conversation with 2 retired local people at the weekend.
    They were complaining bitterly that "we" should not have motorways at
    all. They took the view that everyone would dash out & buy 8 cars if a
    new section opened, & then thrash up & down it all day & night. I asked
    them how much more driving they did when the M4 opened. 
    
    They enjoyed pottering on their local A-roads. "How much road would you
    actually have left if we abandoned Motorways" I asked."In all
    probability, you would not be able to even get near the main road".
     "The problem is, there's too much car ownership today" 
    was the reply from the couple who owned a car each, & whose children all 
    had cars.
     "So" said I, "Who's to sell their cars first, you or me !"
    
    

    
    I had relatives call Albert and Doris and they NEVER owned a car
    between them, although they were keen travellers (Europe/Canada/etc).
    
    No point really, but it just reminded me - not all Doris and Alberts
    are the same :^)
    
    Mark

re: does a compass work on a bike - 

I don't know, we'll have to give it a try! - We used our GPS (global positioning
system - more usually used when we are sailing) a couple of weeks ago, and found
the pub we were looking for - no problem!

What seems to work not too badly is to fold the map to the right area, and put
it in a polythene bag  - the problem with that is that we always seem to be
travelling on the join!  We have to have a 'map stop' for me to refold it!

    You can hint to Autoroute that you don't want it to suggest motorways
    at all, by setting the Preferences/Speeds/Motorways (?) option to zero
    or thereabouts. Actually, on days like yesterday, with the first real
    rain for weeks, and cr*p visibility, zero sounded about right for the
    M6, which is why I did Brum->Manchester via A roads. 

Over the summer I have done quite a lot of A-road motoring on roads I used to
travel quite frequently - many of them used to be quite fun, bendy, with a few
straights for overtaking, and it was quite easy  to maintain the 60mph speed
limit.  Many of these roads now have continuous double white lines, a 50mph
speed limit, _and_ camera signs! (No evidence of actual cameras) I'm fed up of
having my judgement on speed/overtaking  taken away from me - just because
someone (presumably) has made a wrong decision and had an accident!  I know that
probaly sounds callous and over the top - but where does it all end? - 30mph on
all roads... - no overtaking anywhere.... bring back the man with the red
flag.... I'm going on a bit now aren't I :-)