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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:	Cars in the UK
Notice:	Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:	COMICS::SHELLEYELD

Created:	Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2584
Total number of notes:	63384

2277.0. "Golf, scirocco GTI water problem" by WOTVAX::HARDYP () Wed Jul 06 1994 09:33

    Chaps,
    
    I have an 85 Scirocco 1800 GTI with a strange water problem.
    
    The radiator header tank has max and min marks near the top. 
    
    If I fill the water to the min level it forces its way out of the
    filler cap (or that area) as soon as the car gets hot.
    
    If I leave the water level near the bottom of the tank then all seems
    ok. There seems to be no coolant loss and it doesn't overheat, although
    it's normally used only for short journeys (<10 mile) so there could be
    a very slow loss.
    Other symptoms are: 
    - if I take off the reservoir cap within 30 mins of stopping there is 
    still some air pressure in the tank. 
    - the heater seems to be permanenlty "on" even though I've checked and 
    changed the control valve.
     - I've only had the thing for 10 weeks so I don't know if it was
    always like this.
    
    Someone who also has a Scirocco has told me he has the same feature.
    
    Will someone please confirm that this is NOT a head gasket problem.
    
    thanks
    
    Peter

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
2277.1		WELSWS::HILLN	It's OK, it'll be dark by nightfall	`Wed Jul 06 1994 09:54`	1
	It may be an airlock
2277.2	Keep going!	WOTVAX::HARDYP		`Wed Jul 06 1994 11:35`	7
	N, Can you explain why, how I can test and cure/prevent? many thanks Peter
2277.3	Hope this helps...	WELSWS::HILLN	It's OK, it'll be dark by nightfall	`Wed Jul 06 1994 14:45`	13
	If you've got air trapped somewhere in the system it will expand much more than the coolant when the engine gets hot. I.e. the expansion bottle overflows. Now... test and cure/prevent Don't know about test, but the cure is to drain the system down a bit and then refill it. Before doing this talk to your friendly VW service guy and see if there are any tricks to refilling it to eliminate airlocks, e.g. holding one or more hoses in particular positions, loosening certain joints. Nick
2277.4	"Brilliant"	WOTVAX::HARDYP		`Wed Jul 06 1994 16:26`	8
	Nick, I'll drain/bleed all of the waterways this weekend. I suspect that it's got such things as a water cooled oil cooler and other messy things. thanks Peter
2277.5	Keep Cool!	PEKING::GERRYT		`Wed Jul 06 1994 18:15`	16
	I've got a Santana with same cooling system; ie no visible expansion tank. Had problems with air locks etc at one time. Seems to have cleared itself now, following replacement of the radiator cap. The 'expansion tank' is built into the radiator, and you should ensure the water level is at the top mark in the radiator filler tube when cold and standing on level ground. squeezing the rubber tubes helped to get rid of most of the trapped air. Also, check the water pump is working OK. Good luck Tim
2277.6	Possible solution	FORTY2::HOWELL		`Wed Jul 06 1994 19:03`	26
	Well firstly of the problems you mentioned, I shouldn't worry about them. There will still be pressure in the system after a while - modern car cooling systems can be quite highly pressurised. The header tank is not supposed to be full, ofcourse - it is there to allow for expansion. Then again, it shouldn't be completely dry either. The airlock problem sounds the most likely, yes. This won't show up as overheating on the dial of it is localised. Remember, the temperature you see on the dial is really only at one point in the engine. Since there is more than one route for the water to get around the internal parts of the engine, it is quite possible that the airlock exists elsewhere and the engine could be locally overheating. In my experience simply letting some water out and putting more in does not cure the problem 100% of the time, but then again my cooling system is different to yours! If this method fails to cure the problem, I would suggest undoing a water pipe towards the top of the engine (cylinder head, probably, I don't know Golfs) and forcing water backwards through the engine with a hose. ~~~~~~~~~ If this doesn't work, the airlock is probably the 'other side' of the thermostat (remember when cold, the thermostat is closed and your hose water won't get passed it anyway). But I seriosuly doubt that an airlock would not be fixed by all this palava! Obviously keep an eye on your oil in case it is a head gasket, but I think you would have noticed ominous readings from your exhaust by now if it was anything serious. This is about all I can suggest really.... I don't know how much of it applies to Golfs/Sciroccos. Hope it helps! Dan
2277.7	Time will tell	WOTVAX::HARDYP		`Thu Jul 07 1994 09:11`	21
	Tim & Dan, Thanks for your answers. BTW, the Scirocco does have an expansion tank. It's one of those plastic, looks like the windscreen washer reservoir, types. I'm away from home all next week and as it's the old girl's car I'll leave well alone until I get back. There is no sign of any contamination in the oil, either on the dipstick or the filler cap. The water pump looks ok as you can see water circulating from the radiator to the expansion tank. I'll have a play in a week or two and post the results for info. Thanks Peter
2277.8	Can we read .6 please? 80 columns please!!!	CMOTEC::POWELL	Nostalgia isn't what it used to be, is it?	`Thu Jul 07 1994 18:31`	0
2277.9	.6 (Getting good at this :-)	ESBS01::WATSON	Entropy: chaos at it's best	`Fri Jul 08 1994 10:02`	43
	<<< TIMMII::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>> -< Cars UK >- ================================================================================ Note 2277.6 Golf, scirocco GTI water problem 6 of 8 FORTY2::HOWELL 26 lines 6-JUL-1994 18:03 -< Possible solution >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well firstly of the problems you mentioned, I shouldn't worry about them. There will still be pressure in the system after a while - modern car cooling systems can be quite highly pressurised. The header tank is not supposed to be full, ofcourse - it is there to allow for expansion. Then again, it shouldn't be completely dry either. The airlock problem sounds the most likely, yes. This won't show up as overheating on the dial of it is localised. Remember, the temperature you see on the dial is really only at one point in the engine. Since there is more than one route for the water to get around the internal parts of the engine, it is quite possible that the airlock exists elsewhere and the engine could be locally overheating. In my experience simply letting some water out and putting more in does not cure the problem 100% of the time, but then again my cooling system is different to yours! If this method fails to cure the problem, I would suggest undoing a water pipe towards the top of the engine (cylinder head, probably, I don't know Golfs) and forcing water backwards through the engine with a hose. ~~~~~~~~~ If this doesn't work, the airlock is probably the 'other side' of the thermostat (remember when cold, the thermostat is closed and your hose water won't get passed it anyway). But I seriosuly doubt that an airlock would not be fixed by all this palava! Obviously keep an eye on your oil in case it is a head gasket, but I think you would have noticed ominous readings from your exhaust by now if it was anything serious. This is about all I can suggest really.... I don't know how much of it applies to Golfs/Sciroccos. Hope it helps! Dan
2277.10		COMICS::SHELLEY	Always with the -ve waves	`Fri Jul 08 1994 10:20`	3
	Thanks for reformatting the note. I hope Mr ::HOWELL has got the message ...
2277.11		FORTY2::HOWELL		`Thu Jul 14 1994 12:04`	3
	Oops, soz! Blasted DECwindows interface.......! Dan.
2277.12	Success (I hope)	WOTVAX::HARDYP		`Mon Sep 05 1994 15:03`	19
	Chaps, Thanks for the advice, I got round to doing it a couple of weeks ago but thought I'd better wait before claiming success. No doubt I'll go home tonight to hear tales of exploding engines and steam powered cars! Looking at the cooling system the only circuit where the air would not bleed out naturally (ie no hose at top) is the heater. I disconnected the short pipe from the block to the top of the heater. Water came out of the block side, so I put a finger over that and a few seconds later water came out of the heater side. I connected everything back together quickly and all looks ok. At least the water level in the headder tank remains much higher than before. thanks again Peter.