Conference terri::cars_uk

    Fuel consumption is average ~ 34 mpg
    Reliability is not to much of a problem, but it may suffer from over
    run.  This is a "design" feature according to Vauxhall, but is very
    disconcerting when the engine revs stay up around 4000 rpm, when you
    are standing on the anchors to leave a motorway!
    
    Handling is like all GTE's... great on the straights, great on a
    motorway, inhales in a major fashion on single carrige way A/B class
    roads.
    
    Bob

    Surely the mpg, cost of parts and reliability of such a beast as an
    Atra GTE 16V is insignificant when compared to the cost of insuring it
    these days?
    
    Andy 

re the insurance.

I have just had the quotes for my insurance for this beast.

Fully Comp    : 650.00
3rd Party F&T : 380.00

Plus 20.00 per month for a green card (I will be driving in France most of 
the time).

Do these price sound reasonable ?.

Regards 

Graham N.

    I did 60000 miles in 2 years in mine. Mostly motorway miles and it
    coped OK. 
    
    Servicing costs were excellent.
    
    Reliability was good, can only remember a couple of minor problems.
    
    mpg was pretty good, mid to high thirties.
    
    Insurance was a total nightmare. The quotes stated in the last reply
    seem competitive to me although hot-hatch premiums do seem to have
    peaked now and are slowly coming down (very slowly and in very small
    amounts).
    
    The only real problem was keeping it on my driveway. Both doorlocks
    had a screwdriver or something similar shoved into them. I felt it gave
    the car an air of untidiness. It looked as if the car wasn't cared for
    which was a problem when I came to sell it.
    
    Other than that I liked the car.
    
    Andy.

I had one for 60,000 miles in 2 years , no major problems apart from the H.T.
leads having to be replaced a lot , the car seemed to develop intermittent 
engine miss fires usually at around 70 MPH.

The only other annoying things about the car was that the bonnet seemed to 
suffer from stone chips very easily , and that the electric windows were very
slow to open/close , but very enjoyable car indeed .



					Stuart

    
    I shall have to dispel the idea that all Astras are reliable...
    
    I did about 70,000 miles in mine in 18 months or so. Performance
    is great, ride is poor to uncomfortable - 'sporty' would be a kind
    description and reliability awful.
    
    Mine left me stranded three times. Twice when the engine management
    system packed up and once when it decided to empty all its oil
    over several miles of motorway. 
    
    The EMS was prone to problems all the time I had the car. It was 
    a pig to drive in traffic jams (maybe that should be kangaroo not
    pig:-)), it used to rev for no reason and die when pulling away.
    
    It was a fun car, but I'm glad I wasn't picking up the repair
    bills.
    
    Richard.
    
    
    

    The rev for no reason seems to be common. I'm sure I've mentioned it
    somewhere also. That was the main annoyance.
    
    Mark.

I guess Vauxhall sorted this all out - my GSi has never missed a beat !

Andy

    re -.1. Sounds like you were the lucky one. I had a Cavalier SRI 16v
    for about 3 months. It broke down twice with engine management faults.
    It was in the garage six times for upto two weeks on one occasion, and
    when I left my old Company it still wasn,t fixed!. I wasn't the only
    one, we had six cars in the office all identical, five had the same
    fault. I just heard today that an old colleague who has had his car for
    12 months still has the problem and Vauxhall have just offered him a
    replacement car! When they are prepared to do this it makes you
    question the extent of the problem. I wouldn't touch a vauxhall 2.0l
    16v car with a barge pole, unless someone else was paying for it.....
    				brian

    My Calibra 16v never went wrong. It had an irritating habit of stalling
    within the first few seconds of running but never had an unplanned
    visit to a garage.
    
    Andrew

My 16v Calibra is still going strong. 120,000 miles and only the occasional
EMS quirk. Nothing that has ever put it in the garage for repairs.

Clive

    Why dont you buy a Golf GTi 16v or a Renault 19 16v - Both ultimatley
    better cars in every way..especialy the GOLF..If you want a hot hatch 
    then buy one that handles and performes like one..and not a pretender
    to the throne..
    G.
    

re.12:

Nice one. I needed a good laugh.

Dave.

Renault 19 16v:

	Noisy; unrefined; poor build quality; uneconomical and very revy/ 
	underpowered unless revved hard. - does handle like a train though !

Golf GTi 16v:

	Nice; bit basic and not much for your money (excluding Mk3 - hell of
	a car); not as reliable as reputed to be and very expensive to run as
	a private buy.

	Having said all that - I dont have the GTE so disregard everything I 
	just wrote :-)


	Andy_who_loves_his_GSi

    Renault 19 16v:
    
    What cars hot hatch winner - 2 years running - underpowerd - i dont
    think so - 0-60 7.8 secs - 130 mph - Poor Build Quility - possibly but
    not on later models....
    
    Golf GTi 16v:
    
    Unreliable - mmmm - Mk1 Gti's still on the road don't see many astra's 
    from that era ...Low on spec - well Central locking - computer -
    alloy's, tints, electric windows etc- but what the hell - If its mutton
    dressed as lamb go for a Vauxhall every time! If it is a GTi he wants
    that has been tuned ,styled ,bred to be a true  performance hatch
    then Renault and Volkswagen (recognised world wide as the true GTi)
    are the only Choice....
    Yes the Astra has a great engine -L.C.D display etc and many other
    electrical gadgetry - but its only use is in a straight line - like all
    "sporty" Vauxhalls they are merely base models with a spoiler, bigger
    engine and alloy wheels (- Appart from the Carltons (Lotus and 3000Gsi)
    which apparantly are very good at the role they were designed to
    fulfil!!!!), yes they do look nice and if that is what you
    want, well ok - Buy there are better cars and the two listed above
    are some of them...
   

    I would like the 19 to feel as fast as my 5 Turbo felt!
    
    The 19 is noisy though (but not as noisy as I remember the Mk II GTE
    16V was).
    
    My 19 is a saloon, so has more space than an Astra, and has so far
    (16,000 miles and 9 months) been utterly reliable.
    
    
    Mark

re:15

> Renault 19 16v:
>   
>   What cars hot hatch winner - 2 years running - 

	Yeh your right it is very cheap ! you do get a lot of car for your money

>   underpowerd - i dont   think so - 0-60 7.8 secs - 130 mph - 

	Dont think you read my reply properly ! 

		"underpowered unless revved hard."

	another way of saying "its got no low down grunt"

> Golf GTi 16v

>   Unreliable - mmmm - Mk1 Gti's still on the road don't see many astra's 
    from that era ...

	Didn't realise they made a 16v Mk1......

	Also they didn't make Astra's back then ! X reg I think was the start of
	production.

>   but what the hell - If its mutton dressed as lamb go for a Vauxhall every 
    time!   

	What makes you say this ? or are we to assume you just dont like 
        Vauxhall?	

>   If it is a GTi he wants that has been tuned ,styled ,bred to be a 
    true performance hatch then Renault and Volkswagen (recognised world 
    wide as the true GTi) are the only Choice....

	Whilst the Golf has earned itself the title as "The GTi", I dont think 
	Renault have even earnt this kind of reputation - YET !
	
	The Golf is a fine car - still think the Mk2's feel a bit basic,
	The Renault however feel very tinny and plasticy - cheap - and this is
	reflected in the price.

>    but its only use is in a straight line - like all "sporty" Vauxhalls they 
     are merely base models with a spoiler, bigger engine and alloy wheels 

	You are definitley a bit biased aren't you ..... and I do disagree with
	the bit about "its only use is in a straight line - like all "sporty"
	Vauxhalls" - thats a bit strong. I'm quite impressed with the handling 
	the Astra (but I suppose I am a bit biased), I have driven both the R19
	and the Golf - both of which have stiffer suspension than the Astra, 
	but I think they all handle very very well.

	Lets not forget the base note here, Graham is thinking of the Astra as
	a private buy, and like I said the Golf is a very expensive car to run 
	privately. Vauxhalls servicing is quite reasonable, and pattern parts
	are readily available at reasonable prices (fuels pumps;switches;relays;
	alternators;starter motors;gaskets;seals etc), as for VW I tried to buy
	rocker cover gasket for my mothers A reg Passat and the pattern part was
	still over �10 (as apossed to �24 + vat from VW). The Astra rocker gasket
	is �3 - from Vauxhall !

	Think this is rat holeing a wee bit, still its interesting to read your
	point of view.

	Andy

    
    
    Goooood grief...
    
    Get yerselfs a 2nd hand INTEGRALE (8 or 16v matters not), and forget
    the rest.
    
    Simple eh.
    Al.

    RE.17
    The points that I was making is that for similar money he can have a
    much better car than a Vauxhall.
    
    And your references to the fact "I didnt realise they made 16v GTi's
    then" - I never said they did !!!!
    Look out for Mk1 Gti's which stopped production in 1984 (A reg - X =
    1982 - well into mk1 territory) and they are still running well -and
    looking very good also. - Unlike Astras from that era,
    
    And on the point of spare parts etc - Firstly, Volkswagens dont really
    need that many spare parts - Cluthes etc last for well over 70,000 -
    c.v joints last 100,000 - Body work lasts for well upto and over
    15years - ,and pattern parts are available - just buy Volks World - or
    even Auto trader to find Vw parts Cheep.
    
    Last year Buying Cars did a comparison test between parts cost for an
    Escort and a Golf and surprisingly a lot of parts for the Ford where
    just as expensive as the Golf. 
    
    Astras are in a different League to Vw - Second division - compared to
    Vw premier League.
    
    G.
      

Having undertaken long distance travel in both an Astra GTE and a Golf GTI, I
have to say, for the sake of my health, the Astra GTE was the better car. I
wouldn't buy a Golf if it were � price! The seats in the Golf were very
uncomfortable (did not provide sufficent back support), road and wind noise
intolerably high, and vibration irritating beyond belief.

Dave.

    How did you manage that, did you stretch your legs between the two
    cars?
    Its not surprising it was so bad swapping between the two all the time!
    are you sure dont mean it was the Astra that was Absolute rubbish ,
    Where the cars of the same age, milage and ownership.?
    We must establish correct facts before condeming the real criminal.
     

re.21:

The Golfs were new, the Astra not.

I rest my case.

Dave.

    
    Having suffered an Astra GTE 16v for 70,000+ miles I can confirm that 
    the car is noisy, that the wind noise is awful, that the dash vibrates
    in harmony with the engine, that the seats are uncomfortable, that
    the glovebox rattles and that the suspension is rock hard.
    
    The car though had some good points. Great engine, good fuel economy
    
    er that's it.
    
    Richard.

    I had an old P-reg MkI Golf 1500CL a number of years ago, and I though
    it was terrif.  The handling was razor once I'd sorted out the tyres &
    tracking, it was comfortable, zippy and had a REV COUNTER!!!!
    
    DIY was dead simple, pulling a driveshaft involved 6 Allen bolts and a
    pair of circlip pliers, and even a ten-thumbed chimp like me could
    change the cambelt without help.  GTis might be different....
    
    Richard
    

    re.22
    
    Ah well it is not surprising the Golf seemed a little hard and rough -
    You see they don't bed in until 60,000 miles - AT that milage most
    GTE's are ready for the Scrap yard.
    
    G.

Now I know your having a laugh ! 

Still that would just show that the Golf is no good as a company car as they go
back at 60 thou'

    Perhaps the title of this note should be the 'Astra/Golf Bashing
    contest'
    
    Royston

    re .25
    
    >You see they don't bed in until 60,000 miles - AT that milage most
    >GTE's are ready for the Scrap yard.
    
    S'funny that, I traded in my Astra GTE after 2� years and 105,000 miles
    and after test driving it the guy in the garage gave me a sly smile and
    said: "The engine and gearbox are as sweet as a nut. You wouldn't think
    it'd done more than 30,000!"
    
    Brian

Bashing contest? I haven't even started! Let's face it the Golf is overrated.
VW used to make a good reliable car. Now they don't. 

Dave.

 Title:  Watch out for D297 GTC
                                                                                
                             11 lines   re .25
    
    >You see they don't bed in until 60,000 miles - AT that milage most
    >GTE's are ready for the Scrap yard.
    
    S'funny that, I traded in my Astra GTE after 2� years and 105,000 miles
    and after test driving it the guy in the garage gave me a sly smile and
    said: "The engine and gearbox are as sweet as a nut. You wouldn't think
    it'd done more than 30,000!"
    			^^^^^^
    Brian



				Malcolm

    Well, you must have driven it like a granny!!!
    What was the body work and interior like, as good as the engine?

    re.26
    Read the intro, he was after a second hand car !!!Not a company car
    And I for one never said they were good for a company car. 
    
    Lets face it taking the view of a trip across country in a VW, and the
    worlds Motoring press - Give me the later everytime, at least they know
    what they are talking about!!!
    
    

    Stick a pair of 45DCOE's on it?
    
    ;-)
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

I don't know what happened to note 2380.0 which I posted with this 
information yesterday, but I can't access it any more.  Hence this
is "Take 2".

In note 2246 (Astra GTE), several people have commented that their
Astras have a habit of revving all by themselves.  Mine does this
and also tends to stop all by itself too.

However, as the problem is intermittent, no dealer has been able to 
fix it in the three years I've owned the car.

Last week, in a traffic jam, it stalled every time I took my foot 
off the gas, but a couple of days later was much improved.

Has anyone actually found a solution to this problem apart from 
getting rid of the car?

	Bob

            <<< TIMMII::DISK$USERS4:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
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Note 2381.1         Astra GTE 16V stalling & revving (Take 2)             1 of 2
COMICS::WEGG "Some hard boiled eggs and some nuts."    1 line  28-FEB-1995 08:53
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        See 2.196

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                                  -< Cars UK >-
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Note 2381.2         Astra GTE 16V stalling & revving (Take 2)             2 of 2
FORTY2::HOWELL "Just get to the point..."             8 lines  28-FEB-1995 09:17
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    As I said before :
    
    Stick a pair of 45DCOE's on it?!
    
    Doesn't quite sound right the second time :-l
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    I've had simmilar probs with my 16v SRI Cav for 2 years, and again
    as it's intermittent no garage has ever really fixed it.After much
    pestering a local dealer put his "best" man on it and he decided
    it was a connection prob with the "Air Mass Meter"
    Every time they did anything to it it worked fine for a couple of
    months then gradually developed kangaroo syndrome, also would stall
    for no apparent reason, sometimes the engine management warning light
    came on sometimes not. Anyway as it's been getting bad again I had
    a snoop around under the bonnet and found a sensor in the air inlet
    at the top rear of the engine, I suspect this is the sensor in question
    so I've reseated the plug (with a little gentle bending of pins) and 
    it now sounds like it should and runs as well as it ever has. 
    ie no more stalling/warning lights etc it still runs on occasionally
    when you lift off though. As it's such a simple thing to do, it may
    be worth just removing the retaining clip and unplugging and
    reconnecting this item and see if it makes any difference in your
    case.                                            
    
    Good Luck 
    Matt.

    
    I don't know what brand of petrol you use, but my Calibra used to run
    like a dog (misfiring, engine warning light on, etc) when I ran it on
    supermarket brand petrol. As soon as I started feeding it on Shell, all
    these symptons disappeared...
    
    Mark

Thanks for the replies so far on my kangaroo 16v Astra.

At one point I had the air mass meter replaced and sure enough it
went well for a couple of months before resorting to its
antisocial behaviour.

I'll have a look for the sensor Matt mentioned and give that a go.
I'll let you know what happens...

By the way I usually use Esso or Shell, and it seems to make no
difference, but once when I used Tesco petrol it ran like a bag
of bolts, so I agree that supermarket petrol can be decidedly
dodgy.

	Cheers,

		Bob

Thanks to Matt for the air-mass meter tip.

The car's been terrible lately, but last night I unplugged the
air-mass meter and plugged it in again.  Since then the car
hasn't missed a beat!

	Bob