Conference terri::cars_uk

    
>    Is someone who doesn't qualify for a Car Supplement but is in the DEC
>    Car Scheme liable for tax?
    
>    If someone doesn't receive the supplement then is the car scheme still
>    viewed as a taxable perk?
 
	Yes you are liable for tax, 
	yes it is a perk.

	This is because you pay for the lease out of your gross salary, 
	ie BEFORE tax is deducted

	Heather

    
Yes, and you are clobbered - it's much cheaper to pay for a car out of your net 
salary, than pay for the tax on a car paid for from gross...

    ...unless you are a high-risk driver...
    
    
    
    Tony

If your a high risk driver the fleet shouldn't 'carry' you! 

If it's age/no NCD, we've all (well us oldies) been there and had to fight our 
way up, so why shouldn't you. After all, you'll still have to build up your 
NCD if you ever get your own car.

If it's poor accident record then you should be 'loaded' by fleet to reflect 
your poor driving ability. 

Still I couldn't give a monkey's now as I've come out of the fleet and am 
buying my current end-of-lease car.

Richard

re .3 and .4

I spent 13 years building up my NCD.
Was pleased as punch when my 'then' employer thought I was manager material and
gave me a company car (very nice too).
Thought myself adventurous and 'Euro-aware' when I went to live in France for two
years...
 ...then mightly peeved when told I was back to square one because I hadn't had
a UK insurance in my own name within the last 6 years.
  ^^

The baa-lambs will get you every time.

    �re .4
    
    �buying my current end-of-lease car.
    
    Digressing a bit but out of interest Richard how did the end of lease
    purchase price compare against trade or retail price. 
    
    Royston

Good a place as any I suppose.....

Rover 416 GSi, Sept 1990 H reg, 36,000 miles, luxury option pack. 
Hertz want �5,975 (but just sent me a years tax disc so �125 off, plus just 
got MOT'd).

I haven't gone into a garage and gotten a price, but I've browsed several of 
these pricing magazines. Various prices from (all -ish)

Auction		5,400
Trade Value	5,800
Private sale	6,100
to buy		6,500 - 7,500 depending on which mag and condition etc.

So, a Fair price, but not a tremendous price, nor a rip-off.


I then searched for insurance: DEC gave me a letter testifying to no claims 
against me in the 8 years I've been with them (I had many years full NCD 
before coming in). 
Several quotes:

All fully comp, 2 named drivers only (me and wife), including up to 1,000 
company miles cover (in some cases it's class 1 which is a somewhat more)
one declared no-blame accident, one declared (expired) speeding endorsement.

Company		Quote	Excess	Audio	Notes		

Direct Line	443	50		With Digital Discount!		
							
Preferred Direct 401	50	??	Incl Legal prot & Windscreen	
					gave 2 years NCD with letter	
							
Halfords	348	50	100	3 Years NCD		
		318			With Digital Discount		
							
A-Plan		341	100	300	inc Legal prot		
					60% NCD		
The Insurance Service
		408	75	400	Protected NCD		
		377			60% NCD		
		345			no company miles, protected	
	

I've gone with A-plan as it's near cheapest, but has sufficient Audio cover 
(the cheapest, Shead through Halfords couldn't extend the cover above the 
�100, which would hardly cover the manufacturers original equipment)


Finally finance, I had a plethora of leaflets offering finance, but I needed a 
100% loan. In fact my own bank (Midland) had a deal with a price (which I've 
only seen beaten since by Barclays). 17.3% APR (but you had to apply before 
31st August). What's more they were willing to advance 100% of the price.

So, Price OK, funding OK, Insurance OK, managers agreement OK, and the tax man 
says let them know as soon as I've terminated the lease and they'll correct my 
TAX code.

So it's all systems GO!, and it's mine on 17th of september.

Richard

    Thanks for sharing that info Richard. I've not heard of A-Plan.
    Could you list their phone no. (perhaps in the insurance note).
    
    Royston

    Espace TXE, H reg, Philips stereo option, 38.1K miles, MOT'd, year's
    full tax disc, new tyres about 8 months ago. Price from Hertz at end of
    lease �10,700.
    
    The price appears to be about the going rate for such a vehicle, more
    so as I would class the car's condition as very good; even when     
    considering I've used it to ship around the odd 3/4 ton of paving
    bricks or half a ton of sand and ballast. I'm well pleased as I know
    how the car has been driven over the past three years.
    
    One insurance quote so far, two named drivers (my wife and I), fully
    comp, with NCD letter from Digital
    
    Halford's �542.54  without Digital discount
              �489.87  with Digital discount
    
    The insurance can be paid in 10 monthly installments.
    
    To fund the car I have the maximum Barclayloan loan from Barclays,
    �10,000 @16.9% APR. This is their special offer Car loan rate; the
    offer lasts until 17th Sept '93. As I had the maximum loan on this
    scheme, I had to stump up the extra �700. They were more than prepared
    to offer a loan of greater than �10,000 but were talking normal APR
    e.g. 19/20%.
    
    Today the cheques go to Fleet, the ERC goes to personnel and I'm out of 
    the scheme as of Monday.
    
    Angus

	Another one for interest.

	Citr�en BX TZD Turbo with Airconditioning and Mud Flaps all round,
42,000 miles 3 years old 22nd August last.  Had a major crunch last May and a
minor one 12 months before (ABS would have prevented both!) 8-(

			�5975.00 plus �40.00 for DIGITAL(!).

	Seems dear to me, but how would I know.  I know that I've more than paid
for the price of the options on the car!

	Insurance?  I've had two 'phone quotes: �1100.00 and �730.00 with no NCD.

				Malcolm 

(who still doesn't know whether to come out of the Scheme or not 'cos there 
isn't a Cavalier Diesel with Aircond. option!).

    Can someone please clarify the original question regarding tax,
    supplement, difference between tax on gross and net and also does the
    car supplement reduce the list price of the car (ie  do we contibute to the 
    price of the car). Does anyone understand the questions ???
    
    Malcolm

    OK here's my take...
    
    Nothing reduces the list price of the car in the tax man's eyes.
    
    Any contribution that a Digital employee makes is made from untaxed
    income. The car is therefore viewed as a benefit.
    
    If we contributed from taxed income then this would, in some way that I
    don't understand, reduce the benefit amount.
    
    Andrew

    
>    If we contributed from taxed income then this would, in some way that I
>    don't understand, reduce the benefit amount.
 
	If you contributed from taxed income, it would not be a perk, and
	you would not be taxed as a company car user.

	You would also be able to claim back from the taxable allowance, a
	percentage of all your costs, such as depreciation, service, insurance,
	tax....... the percentage is the amount of business miles to total 
	miles.   
  
  Andrew

	If you contributed from taxed income, it would not be a perk, and
	you would not be taxed as a company car user.
    
    I don't think this can be correct Heather, because if it was, everyone
    would contribute �1 from taxed income and not pay the tax on the
    benefit.
    
    But I said I don't understand.
    
    Andrew

>>	If you contributed from taxed income, it would not be a perk, and
>>	you would not be taxed as a company car user.
    
>    I don't think this can be correct Heather, because if it was, everyone
>    would contribute �1 from taxed income and not pay the tax on the
>    benefit.
 
	You can do this, I do it, I take the money - taxed - from Digital,
	and get my own car. The car is NOT counted as a perk.

	In fact, I can also claim tax relief on the proportion of car tax, 
	insurance, mtce, and depreciation, that I use Business vs private.
	Last year 50% of my miles were business, so I could claim 50% of
	all my costs.
   
	Digital doesn't give you the option to take a car from them on a lease
	from taxed income. but you could always take the money, and get a
	lease car, through normal lessors.

	Heather

What your missing is that it's not if you contribute �1 you pay no tax, but rather, if 
you contribute �1 your car tax liability is reduced by exactly the same �1.

Thus to offset a car tax of �2990, you'd have to be contributing �2990 POST TAX, in 
other words your paying the same tax anyway! hence no saving.

Richard