Conference terri::cars_uk

>    The market supplements have been reduced to reflect the the new Car
>    Scheme but for employees who have opted out there will be no change. 
>    Does this meen that should I choose to opt out now I will be worse off
>    than if I had opted out a year ago.  (ie. a level 8-9 who opted out a
>    year ago gets about �4300, the current supplement is now �3560 a
>    difference of �870).
 
	Indeed, but a year ago (and for quite a few years), you would have 
	been getting 4750 plus vat towards a car.......more than the 4300 you 
	would have got had you opted out.

 	Heather

	I have done the dirty deed - I've ordered a Citr�en Xantia VSX 1.9 Turbo
Diesel with Airconditioning!!!

	Details?  Here goes, it might be usefull to someone else:

	Sands of Burnham quoted me �16,008.00 if I arrange my own finance, 
ie. cash; or �5,000.00 deposit and �298.xx a month for four years;

	Concorde Garage in Wokingham quoted me �16,285.00 cash; or �5,000.00
deposit and �282.13 per month for four years - which I accepted;

	Other garages quotes were between the two.

	It just goes to show - the cheapest cash price isn't necessarily the
best to go for.

	All the quotes included delivery, plates etc. and twelve months Vehicle 
Excise Tax.

	After I ordered the car, they told me that they would give me the Super 
Finish Paint Seal job which normally cost an extra �1xx.xx, so I thought that 
was nice of them!

	Because of the Airconditioning being a Factory fitted option, delivery 
won't be until mid to end November (THIS year!)  They offered me a UK fit
Airconditioning system (which would use the Citr�en controls) for an extra
�450.00 which would give quicker delivery, but I'm spending enough anyway!

	The extended Warranty (if I take it) will be �339.00 for two years,
ie. three years in total.  Citr�en Assist extended to cover the second and 
third years will be �73.00 (if I take it), this is implemented by National
Breakdown in this country.

	Just for the record, I asked what the total of list prices would be
for Company Car Tax purposes:
				�15,995.00	Xantia VSX 1.9 TD
				   �950.00	Airconditioning (factory fit)
				   �415.00	Delivery, plate etc.
				-----------
				�17,360.00	Total
				 �6,076.00	35% of Total for Tax next year
				  �1519.00	Actual Tax payable @ 25%

	Add to this the Paint job ....

	My Quote for this car in the Car Scheme was �4789.00 P.A.

	Hope that is of use/interest to some.

				Malcolm.

    As I do a lot less miles these days I'm thinking about opting out the
    scheme when my car comes up for renewal.
    
    The thing is, I do a limited amount of business miles but would not want
    to use my own car for business use once I'm out the scheme.
    
    Is anyone else in this situation ? What I was wondering was what hire
    car arrangements can you make for business use if you are out of the
    scheme but a qualified car user. I would expect to pay for a hire car
    but would the insurance be covered by the company ? What rental price
    would I expact to pay for the cheapest class of hire car ?
    
    I've asked locally but no one knows the procedure even HR helpline
    weren't too sure. 
    
    I thought there mat be other folks in a similar position.
    
    Thanks for any info.
    
    Royston

I left this lease scheme last year, here's one of the mails
that my manager was sent:

Phil.


From:	NAME: Katrina Bassett               
	FUNC: HR Service Centre               
	TEL: 830 4973                         <BASSETT AT A1@RDGENG@REO>

                     CAR SCHEME END OF LEASE OPT-OUT FORM
         
                            CONFIRMATION OF REQUEST
         
         
         
         
         TO:					 DATE: 20TH JUNE 1996
         
         This is to confirm that Phil Ilett's request to withdraw from 
         the Car Scheme has now been received and approved.
         
         Following the decision to opt out of the Car Scheme, the 
         employee must be aware of the following:
         
           -  The employee is not automatically entitled to rejoin the 
              Car Scheme.
         
           -  All mileage expenses must be claimed at the appropriate 
              rate.  For Supplement Holders this is currently 8p per 
              mile.
         
           -  The employee is responsible for their own travel 
              arrangements.
         
**           -  Any hire car expenses will not normally be met by the 
**              Company.  The employee is responsible for ensuring that 
**              he/she makes adequate travel arrangements and meets the 
**              cost.
         
         Please inform Phil accordingly.
         
         Regards,
         
         
         Human Resources
         
         
         
         
         

    Thanks Phil, thats useful info.
    
    Royston

    The following is an extract from VTX.  The rates may not include 
    insurance, CDW or PAI or VAT. You should also consider additional 
    charges which may be payable for delivery/collection, airport office
    surcharges, and out of hours call-out fees.  
    
    Chris
     
    
    >American Express    American Express
    >         18-Feb-1997 14:32                           CAR HIRE
    >
    >        The Digital preferred car hire company is Avis
    >
    >        Group           Daily Unlimited Mileage Rate
    >
    >        A               GBP19.85
    >        B               GBP21.80
    >
    

    You would have to pay for the hire car yourself and unless you drive
    something that's really expensive to run it will be better to use your
    own car.  Insurance for business mileage isn't much, so there's just
    extra wear and tear.  Why not allow for "losses incurred due to business
    mileage" when you do your sums.  I allowed something like �800 per
    year.   There's also the fact that you can claim the tax back on the
    difference between how much Digital pay you per mile (9.1p or whatever)
    and how much your car costs to run per mile (30p for my 3.0 Carlton
    Estate).  
    
    Regards,
    Trevor

    Trevor
    
    Can you say more about how you claim the difference against tax
    and also how you can justify this to the tax man because the company
    gives a car allowance.
    
    Thanks 
    
    Royston

    Are you sure it is  a "car allowance" and not a "market supplement"?
    
    It makes no odds to my pocket, but it might to the tax man!
    
    Jc
    

Re: .8

Whether it's a "car allowance" or not, you get it after deduction of
PAYE tax once you opt out of the scheme - as far as the tax man is
concerned it's just extra salary.

According to an article in the Sunday Times, you can claim the difference
between 33p per business mile and the amount paid by your company against
tax.

I have no proof this is accurate.

Peter

    It is accurate, well the facts are, not necessarily the numbers.  The
    33p is down to the discretion of the taxman.
    I've got my form now to claim the expense, just got to get around to
    filling it in and getting a P11D off payroll to get the mileage.
    
    /tmp

Well I just happen to have the 1997 Inland Revenue Tax Return Guide about my 
person.  There appears to be a box on the self assessment form for claiming back
the tax on this difference.

"More information is in leaflet IR125: Using your own car for work, available
from the Orderline."

The Orderline number is 0645 000 404, or FAX: 0645 000 604.

Ian.

    
    I also read an article in the paper on this recently - maybe it
    recommended the same IR guide. 
    
    As I recall they allowed two mileage rates based on two mileage bands :
    
    Band 1  First 4000 miles       61p per mile
    Band 2  40001+                 32p per mile
    
    They would allow the company to reimburse you at these two rates for
    the mileage travelled without taxing you.
    
    
    If the company paid you less than these rates then you could claim the
    difference against tax. On 10,000 business miles this would equate to
    tax relief on �4460 which for a 40% tax payer means they would be left
    with an additional �1784 per annum. 
    
    When I worked this out I was surprised at the results. For my current
    combo (poxy Vectra and more than 18000 business miles per year) it 
    worked out cheaper to stay in the scheme. However, if I were going
    to do less than 18,000 business miles I would give very serious
    consideration to dropping out of the scheme. 
    
    Richard.
    

    Depends on the size of the engine.  61p is for over 2000cc.  They've
    got 2 methods of taxing you.  I'm considering using the 61p per mile
    (on my 3 litre car) cos it has cost nowhere near that to run.  
    As mentioned, the form says it all. (P87) and the leaflet IR125 tells
    you about it.  I've got one with me if anyone in CSC wants to have a
    look, Roy, and if you can find me.
    
    
    /tmp

Thanks to Ian in .12 I've now got a copy of IR125

You can either use the real costs and the proportion of business to
private miles or (from 1996-7) the table of allowances per business
mile depending on engine size. 

If you are in REO the table is on the notice board outside my office
(REO-2/first floor/E9). The text reads as if you have to pay tax on
any excess allowances over the figures but it does say elsewhere in
the booklet that you can get the difference allowed against tax.

Peter