Conference terri::cars_uk

2089.0. "Clamped in London!" by SHIPS::QIGONG::KOSKUBA (Karel_the_cotton_fist) Mon May 24 1993 10:32

    My car was clamped in London on Saturday. I am going to protest my
    innocence and would like your opinion on my chances. The facts are as
    follows:-
    
    In Prince Consort Road (behind Albert Hall) there are several
    parking bays, all marked either by a sign or by a Park and Display
    meter except one - the second bay (counting from Queens Gate) on the south
    side of Prince Consort Road. That's the one I parked in. On return I found
    my car clamped (#38), a Fixed Penalty Notice (another #30) and a separate Notice
    of Intent to Prosecute by Westminster City Council. Now:-
    
    1. There were 13 spaces in our parking bay and all were full. The next
    bays, which had a 'No waiting' bag pulled over the parking signs, were
    empty. This would suggest that people genuinely thought it was OK to
    park in the unmarked bay. All cars were clamped, BTW. We talked to
    about 10 drivers and all were quite upset at what had happened.
    
    2. One of the drivers asked a passing Traffic Warden whether it was OK
    to park there. She looked at the parking bays and said "you can't park
    in the first one but the second one should be OK". The first bay had a
    yellow "no waiting' bag over the parking sign. Obviously he didn't
    think it was necessary to take her number.
    
    3. The Police Officer issuing the fixed penalty notices was still there
    when we returned and he agreed that tha parking bay wasn't clearly
    marked. He thought there should have been a parking sign on one of the
    two lamp posts enclosed within the bay area. He said we could quote
    him. We've got his number.
    
    4. Two Police Officers stopped by and after our explanations agreed we
    shouldn't pay but send a photocopy of the relevant notices to the
    respective authorities. We've got their numbers.
    
    5. The Police Officer at the Pound (where you pay the clamping penalty)
    said that something must have gone wrong as this was an unusually large
    number of clamping from one place. We don't have her number.
    
    
    We all said we wouldn't pay but write to the Police and Westmister
    Council though there were couple of people who later said that they may
    just pay and forget it. If we plead no guilty and get convicted, we
    could get max. fine #400. They didn't think it was worth the risk.
    
    Does anyone know whether a parking sign in one bay can apply to a
    separate bay (separated by yellow lines from the marked one, that is)?
    
    Anyone know of any relevant laws which would apply here?
    
    Still fuming...
    
    Karel.

    
    Can't help out on the laws &c, but to assist your case it would help to
    get some photographs of the parking bays (when empty!) if you haven't
    done so already.
    
    
    Graham Warnes

    I once parked behind a hotel in London, where there were no road
    markings at all. I got chatting to the porter who said people had been
    clamped for parker there, on the assumption that although it doesn't
    say you can't park, it also doesn't say you can!!!
    
    Greg

Karel,

First of all get some real advice... call the AA legal dept. They may even 
arrange for a visit to the site.

Secondly, although expensive, would it *really* be worth your time to argue?
Are you without your car because you didn't pay? I never been clamped so don't
know the score.

Although annoying (and pricy) it may appear to be that the ticket person and
clampers done the whole block without looking at yours properly. I tried to
contest a parking ticket in the city near Fenchurch street, and didn't manage
to get anywhere (i parked on an unmarked spot).

I suppose the best thing to do would get some real advice, then examine your
options.

Good luck though!!!


					Lewis.

    re: .-1
    
    AA legal dept. I haven't thought of it. Thanks, Lewis, I'll do that.
    
    Karel.

    I _believe_ that the legal position is that parking on the road,
    anywhere where it doesn't specifically say that you can, is technically
    illegal - "obstruction". The theory apparently is that the roadway is
    meant for driving along - not for parking on. This is ancient Law, and
    may have been changed by recent legislation.
    
    "say that you can" above includes such things as "waiting limited to 20
    minutes" etc (and, obviously, parking meters) - such signs implicitly
    give you permission to park.
    
    There's also the "ignorance is no excuse" rule - a friend of mine was
    booked for parking on a double yellow line which you couldn't see, as
    they'd re-surfaced the road over it. He was "supposed to know it was
    there" (this in London, where double yellow lines aren't accompanied by
    signs on the lamp-posts). They let him off "in the interests of good
    relations" or something, although they claimed that they were technically
    right (you're supposed to go to the Town Hall or somewhere and check
    the Definitive Maps before you park!)
    
    Dave.

Karel left Digital a few weeks ago but last night he asked me to tell you that
he has now heard from Westminster City Council, who are not proceeding due to
a "technicality", and the Police, who are refunding the clamping fine.

Dave.