Conference terri::cars_uk

    One of the things they can fail cars for now, is obstructed visibility.
    (not sure how it is worded, though)  Caused, for instance, by hanging
    furry dice from the mirror, having cracks/bubbles in the windscreen,
    or by having large (or too many) stickers on the screen.
    
    How's about failing all those cars which have the large Digital
    sticker plastered on the window(s) ?
    
    Of course, if the sticker is on the HRW, removing it can damage
    the elements in that, leading to another form of reduced visibility !
    (which I cannot expect them to check)
    
    J.R.

I was told that some of the new things include :-

Testing of the drivers door to see if it will open "easily" 

Strict checking of the registration plates for damage/cheating.

More stringent checking of fuel pipe runs etc...



I have to coax my car through before the end of Feb,  I will report back 
the tales of woe :-(

_Richard

The VW garage here in Reading claimed that only cracks "in the immediate
forward field of view" would cause a failure. I think that this is going to
be a the new one for the crooked MOT places to catch you on, togeather with 
exaust emissions.

Nothing else in the new rules looked too drastic, just common sense like doors
that open, and body panells that don't fall off........

Terry

    
    They also test fog lights,hazard warning lights and number plate
    lights.
    
    	I'm just fitting a new driveshaft gater to gat my little darling
    through.
    
    
    		Andy.

What about Mileage counters?  My heap went round the
clock on New Years eve - and is now stuck on 000000! 
Someone told me that *might* be a fail!  And only
15 days to M.O.T.-day!

Re .5

I guess they could get awkward about that,  perhaps you should take the previous
MOT with the mileage recorded on it?

As for it sticking on 000000,  my speedo is on the third time round ie. 248K,  and
is only now beginning to stick a little,  I guess the gears are beginning to wear
out! ;-)

Perhaps it is an ideal time to get a new speedo with it all at 000000 !!!! ;-)

_Richard

    Also "security of seat fixings" (according to today's Telegraph). No
    expalanation of just what or how they test (another opportunity for
    some testers?)
    
    D.

    re the windscreens... I read (from an article supplied by one of the
    windscreen repairer's) that the testers would have a 'template' to
    place in the line of vision that provided the zones concerned. If you
    get a fail for this ask for them to show you the problem!.
    
    Richard

    the test also includes checking for correct spacing of letters/numbers
    on number plates.
    
    Rob

    I read somewhere that if you have rust which results in sharp edges,
    then they'll fail the car on this. I guess this is to ensure people
    don't cut themselves on your rust heap.
    
    Dave.
    

�    windscreen repairer's) that the testers would have a 'template' to
�    place in the line of vision that provided the zones concerned. If you
    
    This sounds, initially, like a fair way of checking 'line of vision'.
    
    But, it should be a different size according to how close the
    driver is to the screen...
    
    Think about it.  If your face was an inch away from the glass, only a
    very small area of the screen would need to be clear.  If sitting much
    further back (I would hope so), then that same area could be lethal !
    
    On a more reasonable level, look at the size of the screen on a Mini.
    The driver is quite close to that and has good visibility.
    With that same size screen on a larger car, where the driver is quite
    a lot further back, then you would not be so happy with the viewing area.
    
    Whatever, I would expect the 'template' to be of a *reasonable* size
    that should apply to *most* vehicles.
    
    I wonder how well that template will fit in the Stratos ?
    The screen is actually a conical section, with the top edge being quite
    close to your head, but the lower edge seems a long way away.  At the
    top, the screen is actually rather narrow.
    
    Where will the template be placed ?  On the Strat. it is likely to
    cover the windscreen pillar, but that isn;t actually in the way.
    
    J.R.

I heard yesterday that you must now also have at least 2 mirrors,
either wing and interior, or two wing or other combinations, and
that these mirrors should be suitably adjusted to give a clear rear
view.

mb

    The new MOT also covers Diesel cars, I have started a separate topic
    at 1980.0, as it doesnt seem to fit with the mainstream MOT. I am not
    clear what my car actually failed on, the MOT station initially couldnt
    test it because their authorization had not arrived, then on my return
    they said their analyser for Diesels had broken, & on my 3rd trip (MOT
    now expired) they failed my car on emissions (& fog lamps).

    I heard yesterday whilst at a garage that does MoT's that from April
    you will need to take along the Registration document.
    
    This is going to be a hassle for lease cars.
    
    Roy

I wonder how long it will be before it is illegal to run a car over 3 years
old without a special permit?

More rules and regulations,  jobs for the boys eh?

Sad world we live in.

_Richard

        My Landrover failed its MOT prior to Christmas.
        
        Rear Stop/Side lights faded, cured by painting the inside with 
        red nail varnish, �0.50
        
        Rear exhaust box blowing, new rear box and tail pipe �50.00
        
        Seat belt webbing warn, replaced with one from an old Allegro at 
        the scrap yard, �10.00.
        
        Emissions, the engine was pumping out HC at about 3000 ppm. The 
        HC limit is 1200 ppm. First cure was to replace the spark plugs, 
        8 x �1.26 + 2 spare = �12.60.
        
        Emissions better but only down to about 2000 ppm.
        
        This was fixed by a carb. strip down, clean and adjustment on 
        the left hand carb. Emissions finally down to 600 ppm.
        
        MOT test fee and work by my friendly mechanic came to �75.00.
        
        Total cost about �148
        
        I must remember that in future not to leave the MOT test until 1 
        week before the MOT expires.
        
        
        Simon

�    windscreen repairer's) that the testers would have a 'template' to
�    place in the line of vision that provided the zones concerned. If you

	I'd like to see that on the NG, the template would probably cover
	a lot of roof/air space too.

	And it would be really fun on Alans kit, with the little half moon
	air-screens. As they're detachable, I suppose he could take them off
	altogether - I wonder if that would confuse them!

	
	Heather

�    windscreen repairer's) that the testers would have a 'template' to
�    place in the line of vision that provided the zones concerned. If you

Our local paper refered to the "swept area of the windscreen".

    ...My motor mechanic neighbour referred to the area covered by the
    wipers...
    
    So, can we fit short-blade wipers, long arms wipers ?
    
    Is the screen a requirement for an MOT  ?
    
    Do you even need lights for an MOT ?
    
    Tony.

         Our local giveaway paper has the details of the new MOT:

        . A vehicle will fail if damage in the windscreen exceeds 10mm
        in "Zone A", and 40mm in the remainder of the area swept by
        the wipers. Zone A is an area 290mm wide, centred on a
        verticle line passing through the centre of the steering
        wheel, whithin the area swept by the wipers. Stickers or any
        other obstructions - except mirrors, visors and tax discs and
        similar discs - will cause failure if they intrude to a similar
        extent.

        . Fog, hazard warning and number plate lights must work.

        . Body condition must be safe and free from sharp or jagged
        edges.

        . Fuel systems must be free from leaks. The tank must be secure
        and the cap fit securley with the sealing ring in good condition.

        . Most vehicles will need two rear view mirrors, which give a
        good rear view.

        . Seats must be securely mounted and bootlids/tailgates
        secured in the closed position. Doors must open and close
        properly.

        . Registration plates must be secure and the characters spaced
        correctly.

        . For diesel vehicles there is a new 'smoke' test on emmisions.
        Because of the cost of the extra equipment need, not all garages
        will be able to perform MOT's on diesel engined vehicles.

    
    
    I have it from a friend who is an mot inspector the information in the
    previous note is correct.

    Shame side and rear windows were not included in the 'visibility' test.
    
    Might have got rid of the 'bady on board' stickers and those 
    'sun visor' contraptions.
    
    Ian.

    
    Nah, take 'em off for the MOT
    
    :-)

Nope - you don't need the registration document......

    �Nope - you don't need the registration document.
    
    Would you care to give your source ?
    
    In .14 I mentioned that this info was from a garage who had just
    received instructions that required the registration document for MoT
    testing starting in April.
    
    Roy

Well, I took my heap in for the local garage to have
a laugh at (and they certainly did) for some advice
on whether the bodywork would scrape through (it's
now being bodyfiller-ed in the garage before I dare
try) and the mechanic-type person I spoke to said
"Nah, you only need the registration document when you
get Tax".

He could've been talking out of his bottom, of course...

Julia

I just had my car MOT'd this last Saturday,  fortunately it passed.
No registration document was requested.

_Richard

Last time I got vehicle tax for anything, one needed:

	Renewal form from DVLC *OR* Registration Form and filled out form 
	   from post office.
	Current insurance certificate
	Current MOT if older than 3 years.


don't think that's changed has it ?

    .28 is correct
    
    reargards
    
    Stephen
    

    .28, you also need a cheque 8-:)

>                      -< Are you getting free roadtax ? >-

As you ask, yes, sort of....:-)

>    .28, you also need a cheque 8-:)

But you can at least write that out at the counter !

As someone may be interested I'll relate the saga of keeping a purchased 
registration:


Buying the registration was the least of it.

18 months later, and it about to run out on the 31st (yes you loose it if you 
don't put it on a vehicle), I purchased a Jawa moped for �350, this was by far 
the cheapest I'd located in 8 months of searching, including 2nd hand mopeds.

I had hoped to put the plate on my company car for the time being, but although
PHH will allow you to do this, Fleet won't... 

As background, I will explain that this moped is going to be sitting in a 
garage crated up until I find a permanent home for the plate.  It is *never* 
going to be put on the road.


Calling and visiting the VRO (Vehicle Registration Office) established the fact 
that you cannot register a new vehicle without (a) providing a certificate of 
insurance for said vehicle and (b) paying for the road fund licence...this was 
despite the fact that I pointed out that I would be cancelling both as soon as 
I had registered the vehicle !


ah, the logic of government departments....

Anyway, it's cost me approximately �475 to register a �250 registration, OK, I 
will be able to recoup some of that, but it does seem a very silly bit of 
legislation !

    I sold a Kawa KH100 for �40 a few months ago.  You should have gone for
    a 250 or something that learners can't use.  The bike market can be
    funny....
    

    
    All that money...just to have a "posey number plate"
    
    ..some people aren't all there...
    
    
    R

    Bog off Hicks!
    
    LSB 9.
    
    PS. Jane, park it on a friend's or relative's vehicle. Much cheaper.

Re: �40 bike

it had to be J reg or later.....nothing under �1000 for that young...

>    PS. Jane, park it on a friend's or relative's vehicle. Much cheaper.

couldn't find someone with said vehicle that was young enough, who was not only 
willing to go through that hassle, but that I also knew well enough to trust !

    Ahh, I see. I didn't realise it was a "modern" one. Mine's a 1963
    plate, neither suffix nor prefix.
    
    Laurie.

	Rumour has it that if you don't have a spare
	tyre then it doesn't matter, but if you have 
	one then it has to be legal...

	????

	Julia

    re -.1
    
    This has been the case for some time now.
    
    Shaun.

    Much cheaper to change your name by deed pole...
    
    Regards,
    
    D 123 ETR

    Unravel this one, Mr Moderator 8-)
    

I put my heap in this morning for it's MOT.
The only things it failed on were a split
wiper-blade and emissions - apart from the
cost of the MOT itself it only cost �9.

I didn't take the spare tyre along, I didn't
need the registration document (still not got
one despite asking for a replacement) and
the milage counter decided to start working
again on the way there..... spooky!!

Jules

	BTW, by adjusting the "emissions" they've
	made my car run like the petrol has
	turned to treacle......  Yuk.

	I guess I'll just have to re-adjust it!

	;o)

	Jules

    
    Well I just failed for a tyre below legal limits. Now the bloody funny
    think about this is that I checked it last week and it was fine.....
    
    Anyway I don't particularly feel like lining a dealer's pocket by
    paying his prices for tyres, and they will charge me full fee for a
    retest.
    
    End result is the recession in the motor trade is a little less deep,
    and I am worse off by the price of a retest.
    
    Terry

    Is the tyre, in your opinion, still legal?  If so, I would challenge
    the tester on this - ask him to explain why he failed it.  If you still
    can't agree, I think there's an appeals procedure.
    
    Richard
    

    
    
    The legal requirement for tyres is:
    
    1.6mm over the CENTRAL 75%
    
    ie a total of 25% of the tyre can be below 1.6mm but it can only be within
    the 12.5% at either edge.
    
    any point within the 75% central section at any point of the
    circumference below 1.6mm is a fail.
    
    Hope this clarifies the law.
    
    Richard (young)

    
    Now I am confused..... There was excessive wear at the extream "inside
    of the tyre. I hadn't seen that, and thought that there lay the cause
    of the problem. Strange thing is they also found a "flatspot" accross
    the entire width of the tyre that I hadn't seen.
    
    Oh well, I've calmed down now, and will go out and get a couple of
    tyres for the front. It really isn't the sort of thing I would try to
    defend, but with an increased insureance premium forcing me to spend
    money on an immobiliser, I really would have liked to deferred the
    tyres for another 4 weeks.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Terry
    

    You probably want to investigate the cause of the wear at the same time
    - tracking or something like that.
    
    The flatspot might be due to a skid. (Thinks: skid, tracking out - had
    any "incidents" recently?)
    
    Richard (old)
    
    

    
    A flat spot below 1.6mm is a fail was the flat spot below 1.6mm?
    
    Richard (young)
    

    
    No incident (that I'm aware of... my "significant other" hasn't owned
    up to one either!) and further examination in the full light of day
    makes me suspect that it was a defect in the tyre.  The "background" 
    thread depth for the rest of the tyre is about 4 mm.
    
    Incidentally they did say that there was 1mm of thread even in the
    worst place, so it would have passed under the old rules, but it fell
    below the newer 1.6mm rule.
    
    A pair of yokohama A008 tyres are winging their way here as I type.
    

�                          -< A008s flat spot easily >-
    
    			A008s  or  A008Rs ?  Or both ?
    
    Must say, I've got A008s on my car and am quite happy with them.
    
    I haven't flat-spotted them either, as yet, but I haven't needed to use
    the brakes quite that hard.  I have found that the tyre tread gets very
    soft when *used* hard (on a track), with the result being rapid and
    noticeable wear on these occasions (and this is on the road versions of
    the tyre, not the 'R's).
    
    J.R.

        Re .24, .25, .26 .27  (Registration document)
        
        I took my wife's metro for it's MOT at the weekend, and was
        told they needed the registration document.  Apparently it's
        a requirement of the new MOT to check that the chassis and engine
        numbers match the registration.  No problem, but it seems from
        previous notes that not many garages are doing it.
        
        Ian.

    �check that the chassis and engine numbers match the registration.
    
    Its going to be fun getting lease cars MoT'd. I can't see the lease
    company sending out the registration document.
    
    If it is a new requirement, it surprises me that only some garages
    are enforcing it or even know about it.
    
    Roy

    Well, my Rover failed it's first M.O.T. on Saturday ... 
    for having a crack in the number plate !
    
    It was a small (perhaps 1/4 - 1/2 inch) star shaped crack, which was
    barely visibly and did not detract from the visibility at all.
    
    When I called up to order my new number plates I was told they would
    only make them if I turned up with the car, however, having just failed
    its M.O.T. it is illegal to drive the car apart from to and from the
    testing station !  I tried explaining this to the person on the phone,
    but they were adamant, no car, no number plates (probably quite
    reasonable I suppose).  In the end, I took the long route back to the
    testing station, calling in to have the plates made on the way.
    
    As an aside, I wasn't asked to produce the registration document (even
    though I had it handy).
    
    
    Shaun.
    
    

RE .-1 by MUGGER::LEACH


 > only make them if I turned up with the car, however, having just failed
 > its M.O.T. it is illegal to drive the car apart from to and from the
 > testing station !

I thought that it was NOT illegal to drive your car providing the old MOT has not 
expired, and a new MOT can be obtainned 1 month before the old one runs out to run
back to back with it.

Is this correct ?

    I nominate the tester and the number-plate maker for this week's
    "jobsworth" award. The former for being petty, the latter for talking
    crap.
    
    Before long, you'll be failed for not cleaning the wheel-trims
    properly...
    
    Laurie.

>>I thought that it was NOT illegal to drive your car providing the old MOT has not 
>>expired, and a new MOT can be obtainned 1 month before the old one runs out to run
>>back to back with it.

>>Is this correct ?
    
    Unfortunately not.  If you are issued with an M.O.T. fail certificate
    your old M.O.T. is invalidated
    
    Shaun.
    

re .59 - are you certain... I understood an MOT certificate was valid for
one year from issue (or when the old one runs out, if that is within a
month).

I've never heard of an MOT certificate becoming invalid in this way.

Peter.

I think that .59 is a little wayward of the mark.

The whole point of being able to MOT early is to find these errors before the 
deadline.

I am sure they can stop you if the vehicle is grossly unroadworthy,  but after a 
fail due to a numberplate!!!  If this is true we should all give up and sell the
country to the Japanese :-(

_Richard

�I am sure they can stop you if the vehicle is grossly unroadworthy,  
    
    If your vehicle fails an MOT test, you are permitted to still
    drvie it on the old [not yet expired] MOT certificate *unless*
    the testing station mark the car as 'unroadworthy'.
    
    J.R.

    I am almost positive (nice get out clause !) that once you have been
    issued with a failure certificate then officially your old one is void. 
    Having said that, if stopped by the Police they obvioulsy would have little 
    or no chance of knowing whether it had failed its MOT or not and
    therefore production of the old certificate at the Station would do
    nicely.
    
    Having said that my car was registered on the 13th March 1990 and
    Saturday was 13th March 1993 (ie the day it needed MOT'ing).  A little
    lapse I know but at least it wasn't late !
    
    Shaun.

I thought you could drive a car to the MOT testing station for a test or to 
"a place of repair" to get the car up to scratch.  ie, it fails, you drive it home to 
fix it, then to another garage to get some extra work done, then back to the testing 
station.

DD

    
    How about this for a bit about these new laws!!!
    
    I took my '67 MG Midget for its test last Wednesday.
    
    AND IT FAILED!
    
    ..... it failed cos it didn't have any brake or clutch pedal rubbers!!!
    
    Had I taked a hack-saw to the pedals however .. it would have passed!
    
    Steve

    ...from this can we say that grooved pedals are OK ?
    
    Tony.

    
    Does anyone have the guidelines for welding, now the MOT rules have
    changed?
    
    I've heard rumours that all welding must now be seamed all the way
    round.   Is this really true?
    
    
    Deborah.

    
    I don't have any idea of the new rules . However to me that statement
    suggests , if true, they are trying to cut down on crap work. A
    large percentage of any car is spot welded, then where water is a
    problem they seal it with seam sealer . This means by manufacture most 
    joints are not seam welded. If anyome tries spot welding chassis
    members it going to be difficult , body panels are always either spot
    welded or bolted. 
    
    That only leaves repairs. IMO anyone who trys tacking things together
    is a cowboy. A repair should be as strong as or stronger than the
    original. These days welding equipment is cheap , so there are load of
    people who do welding without know what they are about. It's plain
    dangerous to do poor quality welding , so if the intention is to cut
    down on that then its not a problem. I never tack a joint than will
    take any weight , I always seam anyway. 
    
    Garry