Conference terri::cars_uk

    try you're local taxi rank. I drive a Citroen 19TGD and the Basingstoke
    taxi service use the same. many opf theirs have 100,000+ and have
    probably been badly driven.

When I was taxi driving and we used cars with the BL 1.8 'B' series engine, we
reckoned on 180,000 before the first engine went.

Dave.

    Why on earth would you consider the life expectancy of the engine?.
    Most modern cars have an extremly long life.
    
    There are exceptions (there always are). I've known drivers of both the
    BX diesel and petrol engine's have the cylinder-heads go. But then so
    have drivers of virtually every other car on the road (I know a BMW
    driver who's cam belt went and shot all the valves). However, your
    more likely to consider if the Turbo, or the hydraulics pump or the
    wheel bearings or the gearbox or the ....... are likely to go.
    
    YOU know how it's been treated, YOU know how it's been serviced. YOU
    know if it's been reliable or not. YOU are in the best position to
    judge if it's a lemon or a gem!
    
    Richard

    ...Peugeot 205 1776cc non-turbo
       currently 107,000 miles, uses no oil between oilchanges.
    
    	TJ.

    I'm shortly collecting my new 405 GLDT Estate, my first ever diesel
    car.
    
    What tips can the panel give me for general maintenance and care of the
    engine with a view to maintaining efficiency and prolonging engine life?
    
    I'd also be interested to hear of any tips on general driving
    techniques that may be relevant to a turbo diesel, and which differ
    from driving a "normal" car.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    I've the BX Diesel which uses the same engine unit (none turbo).
    
    I have rarely opened the bonnet, as its a fleet car, and I've never had
    to.
    
    My only advice is that :-
    
    1) I believe water is inclined to collect in the engine which is
    trapped in a special chamber which you should pump-out every couple of
    thousand miles. I've never done this as this forms part of the service,
    but it's simply a button you press a few times inside the engine
    compartment. I guess the water is one of the many byproducts from
    burning diesel..
    
    2) I run mine on the nearest-diesel-to-me-when-the-gauge-gets-low,
    however I agree with some notes that say that the cheap diesels are
    rather smokey. Shell,BP,Esso are all fairly clean and one of them
    (forget which) does a diesel plus. I've not yet tried cooking oil :-)
    
    3) Stand well back when filling up as if you overfill your tank and get
    diesel down your trousers it don't come out ! 
    
    4) Even with the turbo's i think you'll find the 0-30 acceleration not
    QUITE up to what you are used to, but after a whil you dont notice it.
    However I think you'll be surprised in the 30-70 range where diesels
    are often better than similarly sized petrol engines.
    
    5) When you start the engine turn the key to the heater position till
    the little light goes out. This takes about 4 seconds , and having done
    this you'll find the engine starts first time. Mine has never failed to
    start first time when I follow this ()correct) procedure, even in
    frosts,snow etc.
    
    6) If it was my car I'd probably spend more time cleaning around the
    fuel cap as this area gets really dirty after fuel spills, as the
    diesel is thick and sticky compared with petrol which simply
    evaporates.
    Most diesels you see have a dirty yellow discolouring around the fuel
    cap, which if you clean it regularly (I don't I'm ashamed to say) can
    be avoided.
    
    7) Enjoy the economy ! When Digital sends me to Katmando (or worse -
    Ipswich!) I don't get frustrated - I just drive there and think about
    the pennies I'm accumulating (3p a mile might not seem much but when
    you do a 300+ mile journey it adds up - almost the price of a CD )
    
    Happy driving

    RE: .6
    
    Thanks.
    
    Two things interest me:
    
    0-30. The 0-60 speed of the 405 1900 Turbo is a little over 12 seconds,
    and the top speed is 112. I'm not anticipating any complaints there!
    The 70+ acceleration (in 5th) was stunning, I was really surprised, and
    when I eased off at 85ish (I test drove in the UK) it was still pulling
    like a train. In performance terms, it was perfectly adequate for
    family transport.
    
    Lastly, a rathole. It's funny you should mention Ipswich, that's where
    I'm collecting the car from. What with me being local and all...
    
    Anyway, keep the info coming, especially technical stuff.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Well to correct .6 a bit, Yes water does tend to collect in the fuel
    filter, but you don't empty it by pressing the plunger, that's there to
    prime the circuit if you ever run out of fuel (unlikely as there's a
    low fuel warning light) as you shouldn't run the engine without fuel
    as it acts a a lubricant for the pump/distributor assembly.
    
    You empty the water by unscrewing a drain screw usually located at the
    bottom of the fuel filter (You find this by following the pipe back
    from the distributor unit)
    
    
    As for diesel driving:
    	Change up earlier, the maximum revs are only 4,500
    	Change gear less often, there's terrific torque, make use of it.
    For Turbo D's I'd probably add
    	keep it above 2,000 RPM and you'll really motor!
    
    The advice on the little heater light is good, but this is only
    necessary on a cold engine. If you've been using the car it'll re-start
    no problem, and in the summer it'll usually start straight away from
    cold.
    
    Oh, and I found my first BX used to soot up the injectors if I used
    TEXACO fuel.
    
    Richard

    RE: non-evaporating fuel -
    
    Also be careful where you step around the diesel pump: as these are
    (often) used by truck drivers, there are sometimes puddles of the stuff
    around. If you step in these puddles, and then all over someone's new
    carpet, you'll get very unpopular!
    
    D.

    Another thought :-
    
    when you pull in at services, particularly on the Motorways I tend to
    avoid using the HGV pumps. A lot of services also have a
    motorist-orientated diesel pump. The trouble with the HGV pumps is they
    have a huge nozzle (ohh err missus ;-) ) which don't really fit in the
    Fuel pipe of my car very easily. Plus these things dump about a 1000
    gallons in a second which explodes all over you Plus you get filthy
    looks from the HGV drivers queing up behind you.
    
    when it comes to nozzle size , its control over size anyday

    I was test driving a Peugeot 405 GRDT the other day and the garage
    owner said, after I'd switched off the engine, that I should have let
    it idle for a few seconds before switching off. Why is that?
    
    Other things he said about looking after the car were that I shouldn't
    accelerate wildly while the engine is still very cold (the first couple
    of minutes, anyway) and that it was essential to give it regular
    services (which I knew).
    
    Piers

    The same rules applied about my old Renault 5 Turbo. Can't remember the
    reasons though, wade through the Renault 5 topic, I'm sure it is
    discussed in there.
    
    Greg

    
    Bearings in the turbo are very prone to wear (they spin at 100,000
    rpm+). They need oil!
    
    Mark

    Tell me Piers, what did you think of it?
    
    Laurie.

    I went through a fair range of tests:
    
    o Citroen BX Diesel Turbo -- Nippy and responsive, but the slushy
      suspension and overall feel and look (no, I can't be more precise) 
      made Martine reject this one.
    
    o Renault 19 GTD -- Easily the fastest of the lot, but it felt as if it
      was working flat out the whole time. Also, and I know this sounds
      stupid, but I didn't like the shape. And the man trying to sell it to
      me was a real slimeball; incredibly reluctant to let me drive it, and
      said I'd have to wait 3/4 months to have one, if I wanted a new one,
      and that the secondhand market was non-existent.
    
    o Peugeot 205 Turbo Diesel -- Much too noisy.
    
    o Peugeot 405 GRTD saloon -- Felt less robust than the Renault or the
      VW; though still a treat to drive. I was much more impressed by the
      Estate version.
    
    o Peugeot 405 GRTD Estate -- Liked this, but something of a family car
      (I don't yet have a family). It's highly likely that I'll replace the 
      existing Peugeot 305 GLD Estate I have with this in a couple of years
      -- it has a solid, roomy feel to it.
    
    o Opel Astra/Corsa Diesel (couldn't find a turbo) -- Not impressed; I'd
      like to try the turbo some day.
    
    o VW GOLF GTD (series II) -- Not as fast as most of the above, but I
      cared for it more than perhaps I should. It would be a) cheaper to
      buy, but b) much more expensive on parts etc. than almost all the 
      others. I like the look and feel of it very much. And, when it came 
      down to it, it was the only one of all the ones I tried that Martine 
      wanted. So I bought it.
    
    Piers
    

    Well, I collected the 405 GLDT Estate (1900 engine) on Saturday, and
    drove it back to Brussels that evening. First thoughts:
    
    I'm still VERY impressed with the engine, performance, fuel economy,
    handling, quietness etc. The interior is nice, roomy and so on.
    Generally I'm very happy. Motorway driving is a doddle, with bags of
    power in 5th from 55mph upwards. At running-in RPM (3500) it'll do
    90mph which is perfectly acceptable. So far there seems to be no sign
    of the "It'll use a lot of fuel until it's done 3000 miles, Sir"
    syndrome, which leads me to believe it's exaggerated. Assuming the
    gauge is accurate, I've got over a quarter of a (70 litre) tank left
    after 380 miles. I've driven it pretty fast since I got it (although
    under 3.5K rpm), and "demonstrated" it to lots of people, with lots of
    low-speed, low gear accelleration and stuff. It's turning in 33ish mpg
    which is good considering. I expect to average some 45mpg once it's all
    running smoothly, had its first service, and I stop driving it so hard
    through the gears showing off! The turbo cuts in at about 2100 and
    makes a huge difference to performance (and fuel consumption!). First
    gear is very "short".
    
    A couple of negative points though, which even though I was aware of
    them before I bought it, are quite irritating. The glove box is tiny,
    so small it's a struggle to get the handbooks in there. There's no tray
    in the front, all that dash in front of the passenger is completely
    wasted. The cubby box between the front seats is just too low to rest
    one's elbow on it comfortably. The fuel gauge is a bit "wobbly", and
    seems easily affected by the car's attitude.
    
    Aside from that, well chuffed. It's a superb family car and I'm looking
    forward to many miles of inexpensive motoring.
    
    Laurie.

    I've given it its first fill-up since I filled it the day I collected
    it. On the day in question, for some reason I found myself at the
    commercial vehicle pumps. Mindful of advice from in here, I was very
    careful of the flow-rate. Anyway, as a result, what with the foaming
    and everything, I couldn't get it completely full.
    
    After a few days of mixed driving in which I have made absolutely no
    concession to economy at all, aside from keeping it under 3,500 RPM,
    it's turned in 36.44 MPG. This figure is distorted by the fact that I
    got more fuel in this time, but probably not by much. For a new, tight
    engine, I'm well pleased with this.
    
    Laurie.

    I can't answer your specific questions, but I can say that 120K is no
    big deal for a properly maintained diesel, especially one of the PUG
    ones. Do not skimp on oil and filter changes, and change the fuel
    filter/separator regularly. Cam belts are also a problem, and must be
    changed on time. If it has a full service history, you should be ok. If
    not, service it NOW.
    
    Laurie.

    
     Folks...I've just purchased a Peugeot 405GTDT with 120k on it,
               drives like a dream, any ideas on what I should be looking
               out for as I've received 6 months parts and labour.
      
             Any idea or info with regards to fuel consumption /
             performance ??
    
             Anybody got a Pug 405 T/D with over 100K on it and any
             problems ????
    
                     
                                                   Brian.
    

Although Haynes don't do a manual that covers your exact model, they do a 
Peugot 405 manual, and a Peugot diesel engines manual. Between the two you 
should be covered. (although it's twice the price then!)

Richard

    
     Thanks for the replies...the garage I bought the car from said that
        Pugs with 100K+ on then end up having to replace some bushings on
    the rear axle which would mean striping the axle..this was completed
    and also they give radiator problem..I see a new one has been fitted
    but thye coolant low warning light flashed yesterday during a short 
    journey can I top it up with water ?? also passenger window motor seems
    to be on the way out..do the start to lie down and sound painfull when 
    near the end of their time.
          Thanks for the replies on the manuals...I've heard that there are 
    other manual manufacturers - any ideas ??
      
    Brian.
    

    Brian,
    
    You mention you bought it from a garage so is there a warranty ? If so
    there are a few things to talk to them about here.
    
    Regarding coolant loss. You say a warning light came on. So what ? What
    about checking under the bonnet to see how much coolant is there. If it
    is low this could indicate a leak which should be rectified as all
    modern cooling systems are sealed these days.  As a "get you home" you
    can add water (make sure the engine is cold first) but you will weaken
    the anti freeze so it should be drained and refilled with a fresh
    mixture of anti-freeze and water or a premixed coolant.
    
    Royston

Methinks the garage are telling porkies! The 405 doesn't have a rear axle, the 
rear wheels each have their own spindle. Definitely not a lot of work!.

Richard

    Re: axles
    
    On my last BX (the one I smashed up at 125k), what had to be replaced
    was the bushings for the swinging arm pivots.  This sharpened up the
    handling a bit and stopped the klunk-bang noises when reversing....8*)
    
    As the BX and 405 have a fair commonality of parts, I suspect this is
    what was meant.
    
    Richard
    

    
     From under the bonnet...there just seems to be the fill up point on
      the radiator, no top up or expansion tank as in other cars..Am I 
      totally dependant on the light in the dash to indicate that I am 
      low on coolant.
    
       Any ideas on MPG have'nt had a chance to test it yet...??
    
      Brian.
    

    �just seems to be the fill up point on the radiator
    
    If this is the case, then when the engine is _stone_ cold open the
    filler cap. The level should be at the neck of the opening. Fill it
    slowly to prevent air locks. I guess it depends how low the coolant is.
    
    Royston

    
     Thanks....I'll give it a try...
    
    
    Brian.
    
    

    A mate of mine has the 1700 non-turbo version, he claims 45-50mpg. His
    has done about 70K miles.
    
    My 1900 turbo has now done 13K and still averages 40mpg in mixed
    driving.
    
    Laurie.

    
    Laurie...
              How does the 1900 compare with the 1769 turbo and how do 
      these compare to the BX turbo's. I think the 1769 engine is 92BH what 
      does the 1900 deliver.
    
    Regards..
    

    I can't remember, and the books are at home. I'll attempt to remember
    to bring them in.
    
    Laurie.

I think from memory the power is little changed (90BHP for 1.7, 92 for 1.9) 
It's the torque that went up significantly.(can't remeber numbers)

Richard

    I've had the turbo diesel for 1500 miles now and kept a careful record
    of the fuel I've put in.  Its averaging at 40MPG overall, with
    individual fillups doing between 37 and 43 MPG. I don't hang about if I
    don't have to...
    
    Only fault so far is that the fuel gauge doesn't work!  (hence the
    record above...)
    
    Jc

    I revisited this topic to look up the stuff on water in the fuel (I
    have said warning light flashing at me...) and I noticed all the stuff
    about fuel consumption etc.
    
    Well, mine's now done almost 38K and still returns an average of 40mpg.
    I still drive it hard, and I still think it's a gem. I looked at the
    new 806 the weekend before last, and I'll definitely be buying one next
    summer when they're released in the UK.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Well, I searched under my bonnet, and I can't locate the fuel filter.
    Does anyone out there know where it's located on a Pug 405 1900TD?
    November 1992 vintage? There's rather a lot shoehorned under that
    bonnet! Maybe I have to get at it from underneath...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

I haven't got one.... but I know a man who has......

Under the bonnet, on the right (look at it) there's the battery, and it's on
a bracket coming off the infacing end of the battery tray. Proably got 4 
pipes going to it
	Hot water in/out
	fuel in/out. 
Alternatively, trace the fuel feed back from the fuel pump/distributor (mounted
nearest you on the front left of the engine.

Richard

    Thanks. I'll have a look tonight. I did see such a beast, but I
    couldn't find any kind of 'tap' on the bottom to release the water,
    neither could I see the glass bowl I expected to find (too much time
    fixing tractors).
    
    Cheers, Laurie.