Conference terri::cars_uk

>>	I'm in the process of buying a 'factory-spec' clubman Metro 6R4 with 
>>	about 25 miles on the clock.  I've been advised by another 6R4 owner
    
    Was this one of the 'stolen' ones, by any chance ?
    
    Not that this would have any effect on it's value, just a little
    story as to its history...
    
    You seem lucky to already have met up with an existing 6R4 owner too.
    
    
>>	and, for insurance purposes, Adrian S. Flux. 
    
    		Adrian S.Flux & Company		(0553) 691266
    
    Also, as a possible alternative, I got my cheap kit-car quote from :
    
    		Graham Sykes Insurance		(0395) 266621
    
    J.R.

	Thanks for the nos...I'll give them a call later.

	As for being lucky meeting another 6R4 owner, it was a bit of a 
	fluke!! I phoned up the Broadway Motor's Bookshop outside Oxford to ask
	about Metro books and the guy inquired as to why I wanted one.  It 
	turns out he has had a 6R4 for the past few years and appears to be
	a real enthusiast by all accounts.    He's dropped in a V8 instead
	of the V6 and has 'civilised' the car for road use with recaro's, 
	intercom systems etc. Apparently, it's up for sale just now for 
	22,000 - if anyone's interested I'll give you the phone number.

	What's the story on the 'stolen ones'?  The one I'm buying is from
	a legitimate dealer and has a history (20 miles of it!) so I think
	it's pretty safe.

�	What's the story on the 'stolen ones'?  The one I'm buying is from
�	a legitimate dealer and has a history (20 miles of it!) so I think
�	it's pretty safe.
    
    There were some 'very suspicious' dealings when the cars were
    still owned by ARG, which seemed to amount to the cars being
    sold by the then-Team Manager.  I don't know if anyone has the
    full details on what the story really was, but there was definitely
    a stink at the time.
    
    Whatever the background, I don't think there is/was any question as
    to who was the real owner of the vehicles, just a fiddle going on.
    
    J.R.

    Just out of interest.......How much would it cost to buy a 6R4??

    
    err, about 22,000 if you want recaro's fitted. 
    

    
    The best thing that I remember about the 6R4 is Tony Pond
    wrapping it around a tree on the RAC rally.
    
    JN.

    
    Re .6
    
    On the first stage too! :^(
    
    I guess anyone buying a 6R4 is looking to use it as a toy, rather than
    day-to-day transport?
    
    Mark

    
    
    Hwere did the engine derive from, I assume that it comes from Austin
    Rover but if it does why isn't the engine used anywhere else?
    
    Cheers,
    
    	MattB

	6R4 prices...based on what I've seen recently...

	20-25,000 - basic ex-factory clubman model, 250-260bhp.
	22-30,000 - road-going model, engine and suspension rebuilt.
	30,000 +  - race/rally prepared...400bhp+ (800+ with bi-turbo).

    
    The V6 engine was specially built for the 6R4.
    
    It's a pretty specialised piece of equipment and not really suited to 
    road cars, due to it's cost of maintenance, spares, etc.
    
    TWR (of Jaguar fame) purchased the rights to the engine a couple of
    years back, but I don't think they've any plans to use it in any car, 
    they just provide spares, etc for people rallying/racing/owning 6R4s.
    
    Mark
    
    PS In fact the Ecuire Ecosse Group C2 team (otherwise known as Team
    Postman Pat) used the AR V6 to take the C2 championship one year (88?),
    so it has been used in another car.
    
    

    I think that the V6 used in the development hacks at least,
    was a cut-down version of the Rover [Buick] V8.
    
    Car was generally set up as 'Clubman' or 'International' spec.
    
    I recall that the former had very basic fuel injection, and
    that the latter had better internals for higher revs, with
    different cams and a much better injection setup.
    
    
    Also, the design of the engine and the engine bay did very little
    to prevent the ingress of dust and dirt.  This was found out on
    the Scottish rally (which is nearly always *very* dusty) with the
    result being broken cam belts on all the 6R4s in the event (as I remember).
    
    I shouldn't think this should be of any concern for a road-going
    'fun car', and I am sure solutions have been found since then to
    avoid such disastrous results.
    
    J.R.

    
    I think you're right about cut-down V8s in the early prototypes (the
    car was also quite a bit shorter(!) in the early stages), but the V6
    used in the production cars owes virtually nothing to the V8 Rover
    engine.
    
    Mark

    
    I heard that the Metro 6R4 shell is bigger than the standard Metro
    shell, I suppose it's the only way the engine will fit.
    
    How powerful is the bi-turbo V6 then?
    
    Cheers,
    
    	MattB

    
    The 6R4 shell bears little relation to the normal Metro, but the main
    reason for it being bigger was to improve the handling (the wheelbase
    being lengthened).
    
    Mark

    Yep, the Metro shell was a bad basis for a Group B contender.
    
    Very early in development, requests to use a larger - or different -
    bodyshell were refused by ARG.  This is why the car ended up with
    those ugly lumps either side of the bonnet, so the car could get
    the required wheel travel, using the large wheels/brakes they wanted.
    
    From various things I have read about the car, I think it was
    always highly praised for its braking capabilities.  Then again,
    it could just be that it didn't go as fast as the turbo-engined
    Grp.B cars it was up against, so the brakes weren't stressed so much.
    
    This doesn't detract from the fact that this is a seriously quick
    motor vehicle.  That's probably why there are still a fair few in
    the hands of so-called 'club' rally competitors.
    
    J.R.

    
    
    Group B Cars always were a little silly when it came to power readings
    wern't they?
    
    I believe Will Gollop has been successfully hammering the opposition
    for many seasons now in his 6R4, when he's not trying to roll it into a
    ball!!!!
    
    How about a 6R4 Mini then, is it possible???   (^:
    
    Cheers,
    
    	MattB

�    Group B Cars always were a little silly when it came to power readings
�    wern't they?
    
    Not as silly as the 'claims' for Group A cars to have less than 300bhp !
    
    Especially when you consider that the Alfa 155 racer, which has
    basically got 16-valve Integrale mechanics, is claimed to put out
    400bhp...  So how come the Lancia rally car does not ?   ;-)
    
�    I believe Will Gollop has been successfully hammering the opposition
�    for many seasons now in his 6R4, when he's not trying to roll it into a
�    ball!!!!
    
    I thought that the 'evolution' RS200 was the car to beat in Rallycross.
    
    J.R.

    � basically got 16-valve Integrale mechanics, is claimed to put out
    � 400bhp...  So how come the Lancia rally car does not ?   ;-)
    
    You're right about silly claims for Group A rally cars, but I'd expect
    a full race saloon engine to be more powerful (but less flexible) than
    a rally engine.
    
    � I thought that the 'evolution' RS200 was the car to beat in Rallycross.
    
    It's difficult to say. It and the turbo 6R4s look pretty evenly matched
    from what I've seen. Still, rallycross hasn't been the same since Minis
    stopped winning it on the Grandstand coverage from Lydden!
    
    Mark

�    a full race saloon engine to be more powerful (but less flexible) than
    
    Possibly, but with the torque produced by turbo engines, I guess
    they probably set up the rally car to have the higher power top-end
    as would usually be built for a race-spec engine.
    
�    stopped winning it on the Grandstand coverage from Lydden!
    
    I don't remember Mini's, but I can remember when there used to be
    frequent coverage of Rallycross (it was made for TV, after all)
    and the car that used to be tops at the time was the Stratos !
    
    J.R.

re: 15

was the 6R4 known for it's braking performance or its breaking performance ?

if you consider trees as a replacement for brake pads....:-)

Dave