Conference terri::cars_uk

I have owned Japanese (Hondas) and European (Renault & Volvo) cars over the
last 15 years.  The main difference is that European cars are designed to last
a long time.  They require more maintenance and a few minor repairs but once
over 100,000 miles on the clock, they are still quite solid and reliable. A
simple retorque of the cylinder head bolts, adjust the valves, and replace the
shocks & suspension bushing will give the car almost a new car feel.  European
cars are very simple and easy to work on compare to Japanese cars. 

The Japanese cars need fewer repairs until 80,000 miles.  They are almost
trouble free if you change the oil and keep the cooling system in good order.
Then the fun begins.  Japanese engines are generally more complex with all
types of expensive switches, sensors, and other items.  Fuel injectors on our
1988 Honda Accord LXi are US$150 each!  Steering racks are $1500 installed,
thermal sensors are $30-60 each, and the main computer that controls the fuel
injection and emissions is $800.  Average people who take their Japanese cars
in for repairs rarely get out for less than $500 a trip, even if the repairs
were relatively minor. 

We sold our 1987 Honda and purchased a 1987 Volvo 740 GLE wagon with 75,000
miles, the same as the Honda. Even though we paid $3500 more to make the
change, we feel it will work out in our favour as the Volvo goes over 150,000
miles. The Renault R11 (1.4 litre) has 124,000 miles and still runs like a new
car.  We expect to easily get 175,000 miles before the engine gives up. 

Jim 

    I have a Rover  416 GSi. This particular model has the Honda 1.6 16 v
    single cam engine and Gearbox. I have had a load of trouble from the
    clutch as it's almost binary (1-2inches max between fully disengaged
    and fully engaged). It has been replaced once as it was starting to
    judder.
    
    This is not an isolated occurance, my colleague has the same car and
    the same problem.
    
    In my view Japanese engineering is over-hyped!.
    
    
    Richard

    
    re .1
    
    True. They build cars to last for 3 years and then you can push them
    to junkyard.
    
    
    EX_Nissan_owner Hannu

    The HONDA S800 was a brilliant little car!
    
    791cc, four carbs, 11,000 red line.. what a scorcher.. well it felt
    fast!
    
    		Jon.

    
    
    My opinion-
    
    Not so cheap nowadays, but in many ways still as nasty.....re: those 
    somewhat pucky interiors and inferior body shells.....clone mobiles! 
    
    Good mechanics/running gear though, as Rover have found out.
     
    Now where did I park my new Trabant? 
    
    John (ex Nissan motor engineer).
    
    
                                                                        

    
    Hi Jon,
    
    I didn't know you were a S800 fan. A mate of mine bought 2 for scrap back 
    in 1982(ish) & built one good one out of them. What a brilliant little
    engine. What about other Jap classics! Datsun 240Z's & Toyota 2000 GT's
    etc. There must be a few more about.
    
    Ian.

    
    
    I remember the S800's - they should produce them again - a tiny sports
    car with a mean bike engine. I rebuilt one with a friend in Zambia.
    
    Rob

    I only drove someone else's S800, years ago, and my lasting impressions
    were:
    	Goes like thunder,
    	revved very freely with a huge powerband (elastic?)
    	fantastic grip, both on the road and in the seat!
    	The seats were vinyl and in the hot weather you just stuck to them!
    	Oh yes, and the ear-plugs!
    
    		Jon.
    

	re.7
    
    > I remember the S800's - they should produce them again - a tiny sports
    > car with a mean bike engine. I rebuilt one with a friend in Zambia.
      
    I recall that it was a 'proper' car engine ie in-line 4 rather than a
    bike motor.  Anyone know?
    
    	Jon.
    

    Re .9>
    
    4 cylinders, 4 carbs! A nightmare to tune.
    
    Ian.

    
    RE-1
    .......not really.... 4x vacuum gauges...sync them together...no
    problem.
    
    Alan.
    

    
    Build them again.. they are doing its called the Handa Beat. Small
    engine small size big fun...
    
    								G.P
    

    People are saying that Jap cars fall apart ...
    
    Are we in danger of making a big mistake in thinking about a 3-year-old
    automatic Toyota Corolla for my wife's runabout then?  'Which' magazine's
    second-hand car guide had the Corolla as Best Buy in the 'small family
    cars' section; but maybe someone out there knows something Which
    doesn't.  Any advice accepted gratefully - there's about 6000 pounds
    going down here!
    
    Ken
    

    
    Japanese cars no longer seem to have the super-reliable tag, but to be
    honest, I suspect that's because they've forced the European standard
    and that the (Jap) cars have more than reliability to sell on these days.
    
    I find it interesting to look at the progression of Japanese car
    designs.
    
    In the 70s there were some truly horrible Japanese cars. Mainly cheap,
    nasty and small copies of horrible American cars (or attempts at it) -
    remember the Big Toyota (Crown?) or the Mazda estate with fake wood 
    panels down the side - GET THE BUCKET! 
    
    In the 80s they slavishly copied the European trends and generally
    produced some attractive, but bland cars. They looked Ok, you didn't 
    have to tell your mate that your Celica/Sunny/626 was reliable anymore
    because no-one laughed at it!
    
    Now, as we move into the 90s, the Japanese are getting bold. There are
    a number of models (the new Prelude, Mazda 626, MX3, Celica) are out of 
    the closet and screaming 'We're Japanese!!!'. It's admirable, I think. I
    don't think I'm entirely happy about the styling of any of the cars I
    mentioned, but it's good to see the Japanese designers have the
    confidence to make cars with a distinctive look.
    
    Mark
    
    PS But, I'd still not buy one! :^)  
    

If Japanese cars are so bad, how come the MX-5 and the like have the lowest
depreciation  of all cars in the UK (source "What Car").

It can't just be on limited numbers. What about warranties etc. ?

    It's horses for courses.
    
    How many people buy a car to last for over 80,000 miles anyway?
    
    If the Japanese have proven their products to be reliable (or even
    conned us into believing they are reliable) then fair dues to them.
    
    the only problem we have in Britain is that we love to do ourselves
    down, and seem to have a quirk in our nature that thinks foreign things
    are nicer to have. (Maybe it was Walter Raleigh who we should blame!)
    
    If we bought more British products, there should be more money to
    invest in the R&D which was patently lacking during the 50's - 80's,
    when we lost out.
    Rover now only provide for 3% of the European market so what chance
    have they got?
    
    Timbo
    
     

    Both of my main cars, Fords, have over 80K miles on them. I expect
    nothing less, and I expect them to keep soldiering on for a while yet.
    They both, an '86 16GL Escort 5D Estate, and an '85 20LX Granada
    Estate, have a current value of about 2 grand each. The equivalent
    Jap-Crap would be worth around 50 quid. Neither has shown any major
    failures, or signs thereof, the Escort is still on its original clutch.
    
    Laurie.

Ahhh Gi'day...�

			      Never say never.

But isn't the success of the Rover 200/400 partly due to Honda's
involvement? The 1.6 engine is Hondas as is the gear box. The Rover
800 2.7 litre engine is Honda's too. 

I know, I know...all this has been said before, but I felt it had to be said in
this context. I would choose a car for the features of the car, not because
of the country of origin. 

I drive a Rover 214, just in case you're interested.


	Ian

    But the 1.4 is not a Honda engine, and I find it to be an exceptional
    performer in my 414!
    
    JK

    
    Watch out for a 3.2 litre K series V8! 
    
    Mark

    re .21, .22
    
    Rover are now developing a 1.6 version of their K series engine to fit
    in the New cars, which will supposedly produce more power and be more
    fuel efficient then the Honda equivelant, and are also working on a V6
    to fit in the high range cars (also a K type derivitive).
    
    
    Shaun. (Who also has, and is very pleased with, a 214 SLi)

    
    The 3.2 is actually a V8, but I suspect it'll be a bit of a squeeze in
    the 200 shell! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    Yeah, but have you seen how small that V6 is?
    
    Mark

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    Honda aren't really trying to compete.  They're just using Rover to get
    an  understand the European market.  At the moment they sell a few high
    priced cars for substantial profit, and take home a tidy sum.