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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:	Cars in the UK
Notice:	Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:	COMICS::SHELLEYELD

Created:	Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2584
Total number of notes:	63384

1660.0. "Question for the mechanically minded" by FUTURS::JACKSON () Mon Jan 20 1992 14:03

A short while back I brought a Honda Accord (W reg) from an old boy on a farm
He had not been able to drive due to eyesight and was in his eighties.
I mistakenly thought I had got a good deal as the car was exceptionally clean
on the inside and appeared well looked after. It had been stored in a barn
for most of the previous 2 years without being used much at all.

Within a week of having the car a serious knocking noise began which was
diagnosed as possibly big end problems or a stuck valve.
The result of this was I brought a imported Honda engine (the 30,000k type
guarranteed for 6 months parts/replacement but not labour). The replacement
engine came complete with gearbox which was fitted to the car.

The problem is the car seems to have less power than before and gets to about
60 mph then manages to 'crawl' up to 70mph maximum only if the road is flat
otherwise the slightest incline can mean 45 - 55 mph maximum, also when 
driving it near its maximum (60-70 mph on the flat) results in the engine 
overheating (the fan does come on). The gearbox is a 3-speed Hondamatic
and I feel in Neutral or Park gear it revs very cleanly and freely but
in gear it feels likes its working harder than it should especially on an
incline or when driving close to its (poor) maximum speed. At 50 mph in
top gear it displays 3000 revs which I think is way to high.

Originally the mechanic for reasons know only to himself fitted the engine
with the original gearbox, after a stressful confrontation he then fitted the
gearbox that came with the replacement engine but the power/speed/overheating
problem was still there.
He did find a ball bearing in the distributor from his magnetic screwdriver
and remarked something like 'Well I'll be...' before throwing it away, it
was a similar remark when he found the same in the old distributor before
also throwing it away. I felt twice was more than coincidence and was told
by someone who is not limited to an (apparently) double digit IQ that the 
small ball bearing did actually serve a purpose (which I've since forgot).

While the engine is 'guarranteed' it is for parts only. If I take 
it back from Southampton to London (Hayes) with petrol, British Rail, being
without the car for a few days, and possible a hefty bill for labour which
might not even correct the problem, it may be better and less hassles(if not
cheaper) to trade the car in at a dealers.

I feel by being ignorant of mechanical knowledge that I may even be taken
for more of a ride if I attempt to return the car to the engine supplier
to get the satisfaction of having it put right.
In retrospect I should have waited the extra couple of days and had the supplier
fit the engine as I think there would then be a much greater chance of
come back.

But would anyone who has read this far have any idea about what this apparent
labouring, power/speed loss and overheating could be ? I hate to imagine
what it would be like on a hot summers day.

Thanks for any possible enlightenment

Lewis

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1660.1	My comments	IRNBRU::WILSON		`Mon Jan 20 1992 15:07`	22
	Get a compression test done on the cylinders...if OK, then carry out the following tests, in this order. This assumes that there are no nasty fumes coming out of the exhaust! 1 Get your ignition timing checked/adjusted before doing ANYTHING else. The distributor could be shot!! 2 Make sure the GEARBOX is in fact using the top (3rd gear?)...kickdown 3 Also, have the twin choke carb looked at, to ensure that the secondary choke is in fact operating.....could be a blocked jet, or mechanical link failure 4 Check that any crank-case breather hoses etc, are ok, and are in fact fitted correctly! 5 The inlet manifold may be drawing air at the gasket to the engine block, causing poor performance on one/two cylinders. Cheers...John
1660.2	A bit of a wild guess, but please confirm :	PERKY::RUTTER	Rut The Nut	`Mon Jan 20 1992 16:13`	5
	Anyone know if the Honda ever had a 'governor' type of rev limiter built into the rotor arm ? If so, perhaps that is what the ball came from... I think this sort of thing appears on VW campers. J.R.
1660.3	Another possibility?	JOCKEY::WINTERR		`Mon Jan 20 1992 20:38`	5
	I'd also check very quicky that the brakes aren't binding - I've had that a few times, not with Honda's mind. Roger
1660.4		PLAYER::BROWNL	and the second word is RIGHT	`Tue Jan 21 1992 08:24`	8
	RE: <<< Note 1660.3 by JOCKEY::WINTERR >>> � I'd also check very quicky that the brakes aren't binding - I've had � that a few times, not with Honda's mind. I'd be interested to know why Honda's mind would have brakes. Laurie.
1660.5	Auto-advance gone?	LARVAE::LINCOLN_J		`Tue Jan 21 1992 11:59`	13
	The symptoms described in .0 are consistent with an ignition timing problem. Retarded ignition results in low power and overheating. Since the problem appears to get worse as the speed increases it would appear that the automatic advance on the distributor is not working, and this could be it. Whereas static timing is typically 10� BTC, at high engine speeds it may be as much as 45� BTC, and this is what you're not getting. A test with a strobe type timing device should show this clearly. I don't know how this particular distributor works but usually it's some sort of centrifugal mechanism. -John
1660.6	re. 1660.1	FUTURS::JACKSON		`Tue Jan 21 1992 12:03`	59
	Thanks for the replies re. 1660.1 ! Get a compression test done on the cylinders...if OK, then carry out the ! following tests, in this order. This assumes that there are no ! nasty fumes coming out of the exhaust! I haven't had a compression test done but the exhaust does not appear unusual in it's output. ! 1 Get your ignition timing checked/adjusted before doing ANYTHING ! else. The distributor could be shot!! The ignition timing was checked as OK ! 2 Make sure the GEARBOX is in fact using the top (3rd gear?)...kickdown The gearbox is changing and the power/overheating problems is in all gears ! 3 Also, have the twin choke carb looked at, to ensure that the secondary ! choke is in fact operating.....could be a blocked jet, or mechanical ! link failure The mechanic checked the second choke - it was opening fine but maybe possibly only in the garage not whilst driving ?!? ! 4 Check that any crank-case breather hoses etc, are ok, and are in fact ! fitted correctly! These were supposed to be checked. I vaguely remember something about having to block off a port (?) which I was told would result in a noticable noise if not done properly and the engine noise seems to be quite normal and nothing unusual. ! 5 The inlet manifold may be drawing air at the gasket to the engine ! block, causing poor performance on one/two cylinders. They had to fit a new gasket and your point was commented on by a friend who said 'its dead simple, surely they couldn't have stuffed up that' The same friend thinks it is two separate problems : 1. the overheating under strain (imperceptable inclines and fast speeds of 60 - 70 mph) - he did say maybe the thermostat is not functioning properly to let the cooling system to circulate when above a certain temperature 2. the lack or power/speed I find it strange to that the revs at 50 mph are 3000 rpm . It seems to me to be to high and this is across the gear range. In neutral or park gears it idles at around 700 rpm then when put into gear, then seems to jump up to double this without any application of the accelerator. thanks for the comments Lewis
1660.7		GVA05::STIFF	Paul Stiff, DSSR, DTN:821-4167	`Tue Jan 21 1992 12:11`	5
	Could it be that the mechanic chucked out part of the ignition advance system - that would tally with the description of the problem - fine on no load but bad when the ignition should be adjusting ? Paul
1660.8	Check this also	ARRODS::KINGSTONT		`Tue Jan 21 1992 16:26`	13
	re. 1660.6 Check that the ignition timing check was performed whilst the engine was running at a range of different engine speeds, this is the only way to check whether the advance/retard mechanism is working. If a static ignition timing check was done it would show that the timing is correct for low engine revs, ie before the advance/retard mechanism starts operating, which is usually at approx 1500 - 2000 rpm on most engines. Good luck Tony