Conference terri::cars_uk

Shouldn't this one go under 1538.*

Or maybe we need a 1992 topic...

    Sounds good... test drove one yesterday, suprisingly good.
    
    I found thge steering to be *VERY* light, but coming from a front wheel
    drive Astra gte  I suppose things were a little strange.
    
    I should point out however, there was one very dissappointing feature.
    
    THE DAMN INDICATOR STALK IS ON THE WRONG SIDE....
    
    Every time I came to a turn whoosh... left hand goes for indicator
    misses and flies through the air...!
    
    Bob

    
    Re indicator stalk.
    
    Obviously you've never driven a Japanese car!!!! OR a British car of
    more than 15 (or so) years old).
    
    I would have thought, if you've tried the competition, this would be
    pretty much a standard thing, or have the Japs started switching their
    stalks too?
    
    Mark

    Naw... my last 3 cars have been Vauxhalls, before that Triumph and
    Vauxhall....
    
    But that was so long ago I can bearly remember them.  I've never had a
    Japanese car...
    
    Bob

    Not ALL japanese cars have that configuration, look at Honda's.
    
    Richard

    
    I don't think I said ALL Japanese cars had that configuration.
    
    In fact I asked if the Japanese were changing over, it seems that
    Honda are. (Didn't the Tliumph Acraim have them in the RH stalk format,
    though?).
    
    Mark

    Cars that are designed for the RHD market tend to have had the
    indicator stalk on the RHS. (Logical really, left hand is to change
    gear whilst right hand is indicating (and thighs are steering (-:))
    
    Ford (UK) only changed when they started producing euro-models about
    10-15 years ago. I blame the EC.
    
    If the Japanese are changing, I bet it's only for export! (In Hong Kong
    they supply RHD Toyota family size saloons with bench front seats and
    column mount automatic gear levers. Try buying that in the UK!)
    
    	JK

re -1

>    If the Japanese are changing, I bet it's only for export! (In Hong Kong
>    they supply RHD Toyota family size saloons with bench front seats and
>    column mount automatic gear levers. Try buying that in the UK!)

Most of these are red (or green in the New Territories) and have TAXI written
on top. If you are lucky (its not a shift change and you want to go where
the driver wants to go) then he will drive you there.

	Dave

    Re: "but these are taxis"
    
    So are lots of Mercedes models, but you can still buy them...
    
    JK

    Does anyone have a quote for a Frontera Sport basic or with the
    following options ?
    
    		Metallic Paint
    		Roof Rails
    		Body Protection kit
    
    	Many Thanks,
    
    			Bob
    
    			NEEPS::IRVINE
    
    			(854) 3122
    
    

    Re .0
    
    Does the Body protection kit include nudge bar, side sills etc
    
    and is this option just a solid colour or a metallic???
    
    I'm quite interested in one of these for my next lease but yet to find
    a local garage that has one. There does'nt appear to be much room
    behind the rear seats which would mean keep folding the rear seat down
    which could be the deciding factor.
    
    Regards Martin

    
    How different is a Frontera to the Geo Tracker of the States?
    
    Or for that matter a Sezuki (sp?) Ventura?
    
    I say this as my wife used to have a Geo Tracker in the states, and
    would be interested in a UK version, as it was great fun.
    
    btw - the space behind the rear seats is very minimal .... say two
    briefcases width!
    
    Steve
    

Sat in a long wheelbase 2.4 turbo diesel at the weekend 17,200 on the road,
what I found strange was the mechanism at the rear carrying the spare wheel,

To access the rear of the Frontera you have to firstly swing around a bar that
holds the spare wheel, this requires around 4 ft of space then its like a 
Range Rover the bottom folds down and the glass swings up .

Just seems a very poor arrangement .

							Stuart

    Stuart,
    
          You could always have the rear wheel fitted inside on the long
          wheel base version , but this obviously encroaches on your load
          area . I agree with you though that its a bad design.
    
    
    Regards martin

         �  area . I agree with you though that its a bad design.
    
    	I bet the marketing people don't agree. Ok, it's a drag to shift
        it every time you open the back, but it's got great macho showroom
        appeal! :^)
    
        Mark
    

Re: .14

> You could always have the rear wheel fitted inside 
                        **************************** 

I think *that* is bad design :')

- Jyri -

    
    re: .13 -- spare wheels.
    
    At the risk of excavating a huge rathole, this mention of spare wheels
    reminds me of the way that designers sometimes don't think their ideas
    through.
    
    Quite a few years ago a new car was introduced (can't remember the
    make), which much praise given to the use of a new 'space saver' spare
    wheel.
    What I could never understand was, if you were USING the space saved,
    then if you did have a puncture there would presumably be nowhere to
    put the ORIGINAL wheel. So what do you do. LEAVE it behind and buy a
    new one?
    
    Mike H.
    

    Regarding the Tailgate arrangement, what I would like to see is the
    same system that I had on my Aussie station wagon, ie glass retracted
    into the tailgate, then you could EITHER open it like a door or pull it
    down as per a pickup.  The fact that the electric window slotted up
    into the body work also made it very difficult for a budding thief to
    get in (unless he broke the damn thing).
    
    Ian...

    
    	I had a sit in the Frontera Long wheelbase at my local Vauxhall
    	dealer, I will arrange for a test drive at a later date, the 
    	particular model was the turbo diesel which is 2.3 litres, I was
    	well impressed with the spec and it was very comfortable, the seats
    	were nice and hard although lacked side bolsters, but you probably
    	wouldn't need them in a car who's maximum speed is 91 mph. One
    	thing that did spring to mind was that both models are over 2.0
    	litres 2.3 TD and 2.4i....the high tax bracket does this even
    	apply to diesels. If it does, I think that is wrong, to get a
    	similar performance to a 2.0 litre petrol engined car a diesel
    	must be 2.5 litres or so, therfore in the high tax bracket, 
    	you would think that maybe Vauxhall would of produced a 2.0
    	turbo instead of a 2.4i, or maybe they don't think that the
    	Frontera will be purchased as a company car.
                                    

    Has anyone received a Frontera yet  (sport or otherwise)?
    
    Any comments about it....
    
    Anyone got one on the lease scheme, what sort of prices ?
    
    Cheers
    
    			Bob

    re .- a couple...
    
    It's only the long-wheelbase 5-door which has the big engines, the
    Frontera Sport comes in 2 litre (ok, 1.998!) - but only in petrol
    injection.   No diesel option. 
    Fuel mileage quoted by my local dealer wasn't much to rave about, but
    as the man in the suit said, "They're about as aerodymanic as a
    house-brick"  Plus, for some odd reason, they only give you the fuel
    figure in 4WD..... I wondered if that's to avoid being seriously
    embarrassed by the "normal" motoring mileage ?
    
    I had a quick sit, in both, and was impressed by the 5-door, certainly.
    I'd worry about how many places it *wouldn't* go, though.....there's a
    number of multi-storeys it wouldn't squeeze into for a start !
    
    Was it my imagination, or are the seats not so good in the Sport?
    (certainly less of them !)
    
    If Granpa Munster does anything nice for diesels in the Budget, I might
    be tempted, for my next lease.  Anybody got a quote on the big one yet?
    
    
    Ian 

    For anyone interested...  My quote for the Frontera (quoted in January)
    came in at #951 for the following spec:
    
    	Alloy Wheels
    	Metallic Paint
    	Power pack (elec windows/mirrors)
    	Tow Bar
    	Bull Bar
    	Fog lights
    
    I understand the current delivery situation is that the estate is
    fairly available from showrooms but the Sport is like golddust.  This
    is due to demand far exceeding expections (sound like a Digital PC
    group excuse!) and also due to production probs.  There was a design
    fault on the sport which stopped production for about 4 weeks although
    they are going again now.
    
    I was told 1st June for delivery.  I'll believe it when I see it...
    Has anyone any other info?
    
    Tania Lawson @HHL
    

re <<< Note 1655.12 by IOSG::FREER "Three spellings short of a dictionary? .." >>>
 >>                         -< Is the same as a tracker? >-
 >>   How different is a Frontera to the Geo Tracker of the States?
 >>    
 >>   Or for that matter a Sezuki (sp?) Ventura?

I don't know about these models, but the equivalent to the Frontera in the
States is the Isuzu Amiga, if this helps. The Frontera's quite a bit bigger
than the Suzuki I suspect.

I saw a picture of an Isuzu Amiga and it's virtually identical to the
Frontera Sport except for having a soft-top at the back instead of the
plastic bit on the Sport, and also it has a chrome trim on the front grill.
*DC    

    
    
    re .22  see note 1538.144
    

    In response to .12 the equivalent vehicle to the GEO Tracker is the
    Suzuki Vitara. (The Suzuki Swift is also the equivalent of the GEO
    Metro.)
    
    The Vauxhall Frontera is indeed an exact lookalike to its Isuzu
    stablemate, but the only Japanese part used in the Vauxhall version is
    the dashboard. The engines and mechanicals of the Frontera are by
    Vauxhall/GM.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

well...

anyone got one yet?

    There's a chap down in BSO ..... name's Chris Parker-Smith or
    soomething like that who has a 5-door Frontera with the diesel motor.
    It's got alloys, nerf bars side steps leather steering wheel etc and he
    told me that he paid about �2200 a year as his contribution. Thinks the
    consumption averages around 32 but is catastrophic around town.
    
    He let me a have a round the block test drive and it has very light
    steering and good visibility from the drivers position. The switchgear
    is very tacky not like current Vauxhall switches. Not too swift until
    the turbo cuts in and then nothing wildly exciting either, more your
    "just adequate". 
    
    I could be tempted by one if they offered a five door with a couple of
    extra seats a la Discovery.
    
    I've just had a quote for a 3 door Discovery with the 7 seat option,
    roof rack and tow bar returned with a price of �2262.

    I took delivery of my Frontera sport about two weeks ago.
    
    The car itself is great and reasonably well finished.  It is very
    comfortable to drive and has stacks of room.  It's great fun with all
    the panels out although taking the roof panel off is hard wrok as it's
    big and heavy - the tonneau cover is a must.
    
    Two negative points: The fuel consumption is HIGH!  No more than about
    23/24 mpg round town.
    
    Secondly, there is this awful smell that drifts in whenever the sunroof
    is open!  It's a bit like bad eggs!!  I seem to remember reading
    something about catalytic converters being the cause - is this true and
    if so can I do anything about it?
    

    That smell is probably the cat, try changing the make of fuel unti lit
    goes.
    
    Greg

re .18

Is a tonneau cover included?

re: fuel consumption; sounds about the same as the figures quoted for
    4-wheel drive, then?
    What sort of mpg do you get on the motorway?    
    
I ordered a Sport in the first week of April, and they're now talking about
September for delivery. I've heard that Vauxhall have stopped production
for a few months (presumably to allow a sizeable waiting list to build
up and to generally annoy their potential customers). If it comes to a requote,
they might lose a sale here.

*DC    

    re .30
    
    No the tonneau cover is not included.  To buy it costs #53.50.
    
    Haven't done much motorway driving, but when we have, the fuel
    consumption seems about the same.
    
    I hadn't heard that Vauxhall had stopped production.  I know they did
    stop for about a month back in about March/April due to a rear door
    seal fault.
    
    Although the Frontera Sport is manufactured in this county (Luton) at
    least 65% are exported.  I did think they might have sorted the
    delivery problems by now.
    

    The Frontera production will stop for the whole of August!!!
    
    AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaarRRRRRRRRRRrgh!
    
    

And, on Friday I saw a TV advert for the Frontera on Channel 4, heavily
featuring the Sport model...    

    Has anyone had a quote for a std Frontera sport.....or possibly with
    leccy windows?
    
    Can anyone who's actually got one give us an idea of practical fuel
    consumption figures and how hard they drive to qualify those figures?
    I know the official figures say 23.3 urban & 75mph  33 constant 56mph
    but I believe these figures are in 4wd. I drive fairly steady most of
    my driving being out of town on single/dual "A" roads cruising at 60 to
    70 mph(indicated).....could I reasonably expect to average 30mpg?
    
    Further more I would welcome comments on the practicalities of driving
    such a machine, does anyone regret getting one?, any parking/visibility
    probs? any info at all would be appreciated.
    
    I would like one next but it's the fuel consumption puts me off a bit,
    I've pretty well decided it will be either one of these or a renault 19
    16v. if I decide against.
    
    Richard (prospective Frontera sport driver)

I ordered a Frontera Sport at the end of July.  The 
dealer (Rosefield Motors, Ayr) said it would be 
delivered in the middle of September.   As September
got closer the date changed the 5th October.  
Eventually on the 12th October the dealer phoned to say 
it would be January, at the earliest, before I would get
the car.   Needless to say I was a bit annoyed so I 
phoned the Vauxhall customer services people at Luton.
They were very apollogetic but could only confirm that 
it would be January before they would start building 
the Frontera Sport again.  They blamed high demand and 
"Some teething problems" for the long delivery times.  
I cancelled the Frontera and ordered a Daihatsu 
Sportrak with quite a lot of extras and it was 
delivered within one week.  So if you are thinking of 
ordering a Frontera Sport be prepared for a long wait. 

Ronnie Raeside

    Vauxhall seem to be having problems meeting demand. My wife's new Astra
    is over a month late and it was ordered 5 months ago!!
    
    The garage said they can't cope with demand.
    
    Greg

    
    RE:.35
    
    What was the cost of the sportrack?
    How does the Sportrack compare?
    
    Richard

The cost of the two cars are very similar, perhaps the basic price of 
the Frontera is slightly more than the Sportrak but the basic Sportrak 
ELXi comes better equipped.   The Frontera is bigger than the Sportrak 
and consequently has a longer wheelbase which I suppose will make the 
ride a bit better.  By the way I got the three stage dampers fitted 
which, when switched to soft,  gives quite a comfortable ride around 
town.  The Sportrak has a 1.6l 16v engine compared to the Frontera's 
2.0l but I believe power/weight is similar but again probably 
favouring the Frontera.  In my opinion the Sportrak is a bit better 
finished than the Frontera but in dynamic terms I can't give a 
comparison as I never had a test drive in the Frontera.

At the end of the day I'm very pleased with the Sportrak.
Although I'd set my heart on the Frontera, the service I got from the 
Vauxhall dealer was deplorable and has put me off Vauxhall for ever. 
Also, the fact that Vauxhall customer services told me there had 
been teething problems with the Frontera didn't fill me with 
confidence that I'd have trouble free motoring if I'd waited for the 
Frontera,  Daihatsu on the other hand have an excellent reputation for
reliability.    On the subject of reliability, my wife ordered a 
Cavalier Expression when I ordered the Frontera (it was delivered on 
time, 2nd September)) and it has been in and out the garage since she 
got it.  First a dashboard light went out, then the sunroof drain 
leaked, this took weeks to find and fix,  and the latest problem is 
wind noise from a badly fitted windscreen, this one's still not fixed.  

Ronnie

    Ronnie,
    
    You said the price was similar but did not mention the cost.
    
    Can you tell me how many miles/gal the sportrak is doing?
    
    What sort of goodies do you get in the Sportrak?
    
    Daihatsu dealers are few and far between in this area but I believe
    there is one about 20 miles away.
    
    thanks 
    
    Richard

    I've had a Frontera Sport for about 3 weeks now (and 1000 miles).
    I'm not sure exactly what consumption I am getting.
    
    If you are very worried about fuel consumption, I don't think
    that the Frontera is for you. 
    
    This view is enforced by your choice of alternative (Renault 19 16V).
    The Frontera is not a fast vehicle, and you may find this frustrating
    when the initial honeymoon period is over.
    Hth,
    Dave.

Re ; .39

Richard,

I've done 900 miles since I got the Sportrak and over the last 500 have 
averaged 28mpg.  I expect that will improve when the engine loosens up.  A couple 
of standard fitments on the Sportrak ELXi that are extra on the Frontera are 
electric windows and automatic freewheeling front hubs.  The insurance on the 
Sportrak was more.  I can't remember the details but I think the Sportrak was 
about �50, or thereabouts more expensive,  for fully comprehensive, full no 
claims discount in sunny south-west Scotland.

Ronnie    

To re-iterate what Dave said (.40),  if it's a fast car you're looking for the 
Sportrak is not for you either.  I'ts feels quite nippy around town but could 
easily be outrun by you're average family hatchback on the open road.   I can't 
comment on the Frontera but the Sportrak is not a car for throwing around country 
lanes either.   The high centre of gravity makes it roll a bit more than a normal 
family car.   Having said that, it is terrific fun to drive and the high driving
position gives a great view over the tops of cars in front and over hedgerows, 
making driving in country areas a bit safer.   If you're thinking of a short wheel
base, affordable four wheel drive vehicle I don't think any of those on offer from
the major manufacturers would be dissappointing.   I really only looked at the 
Frontera and the Sportrak but I'm sure the Suzuki Vitara is worth considering as 
well.  The only reason I didn't look at the it, was the reputation Suzuki got a 
few years back for poor stability, I'm sure they've got that one sussed now 
though. 

Ronnie

    Thanks for the input Ronnie much appreciated.
    I'm not neccesarily looking for a road burner, at the moment I'm
    driving a Bx diesel, but I,m fed up with boring family saloons,and
    decided I want something distinctive (so many cars today look the same) 
    and it would be re-assuring to have a go anywhere 4WD
    I don't need 4WD but I like the look of the Frontera.
    On the fuel consumption front, mine is a leasemobile and I do in the
    region of 100miles a day and as DEC pay a fixed rate of 8p/mile I want
    to ensure I won't end up out of pocket on business mileage. My second
    choice car is based on "if I can't have a Fontera lets go a completely
    different route"
    Richard

    Could anyone out there give me some realistic mileage figures for
    the Frontera 2.3 Turbo diesel?, not the glossy figures from the
    brouchures, but figures from the real world??.
    Also anyone had a quote for a basic Frontera 2.3 Turbo diesel?.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    			Colin.

    
    Colin,
    
    speak to Graham Langford about a quote I know he had some extra's but
    it should give you some idea.
    
    Regards Martin

    
    re -1
     Hi Tony, 
            in my opinion the Frontera are not built as a "go anywhere"
    vehicle, ala "Land-Rover", but more of a fashion statement, ala Suzuki
    Vitara..
    
    Alan
    

    You haven't seen last month's CAR magazine then... where the Frontera
    was used to drag out a Landrover Discovery which got stuck in terrain
    that the Frontera had managed to get across/through ;-)
    
    As the article admits though, the 'real' reason the Discovery got stuck 
    was mainly due to driver error. The article goes on to point out that all
    three vehicles in their test (the third vehicle was the new Nissan/Ford
    4x4) are more than capable of handling anything the majority of owners
    will throw them at... or should that read "at them" ?
    
    Reargards,
    
    
    Stephen

    I suspect a Frontera without LSD would have a diff lock.  Could be
    wrong....
    
    Richard

    Perhaps the bottom line would be that if you intend using it off road
    its well worth getting the LSD.
    
    Royston

    The LSD is only on the rear axle.  I'm inclined to believe that when in
    four-wheel drive all the wheels are locked, and that the LSD is for 2
    wheel drive on the road.  (I've got the brochure if you want a look).
    
    tp

    Tony, good to see you noting again.
    
    I was chatting to Trev about this further to his note and looking at
    the brochure I think he is right. The LSD is for the rear wheels only
    which would be applicable for 2 wheel drive. When its switched to 4
    wheel drive all the wheels are locked. So for off road use the LSD
    would be irrelevent.
    
    Apparently one magazine described the Frontera as having less
    performance than a 1.1 metro and the fuel consumption of a limousine !
    
    Royston

    >    Apparently one magazine described the Frontera as having less
    > performance than a 1.1 metro and the fuel consumption of a limousine !
    
    A friend has told me the performance of the 2.5 diesel is appalling,
    but that the petrol version is much improved. He reckons he drove the
    2.5 diesel from Brighton to Leeds, full of kit, and couldn't get into
    5th because the car slowed down too much!!!
    
    Greg
    

    2.5Td has a top speed of 76MPH!
    
    However, I believe the BMW diesel is to be used at some point in the
    future.
    
    Malcolm

    I just got my 2.4i petrol Frontera last week and obviously find it
    slower than me 5 GT Turbo but more than adaquate for most driving
    situations. Acceleration (if you can call that) can be a bit irratating
    on A class Or B class where you need to get by a lorry or caravan etc,
    but apart from that its fine . for example I went down to Wales this
    weekend via the Cotswolds and  found it quite easy to maintain 65 - 70
    without constant gearchange and quite often catching up with other
    cars. This sort of speed is where the frontera will stay all day once
    its there and at about 2,800 rpm it returned about 26-27ish, not bad
    considering it still needs a bit of loosening up. I did nudge 80 at
    about 3,200 rpm and does'nt red line until 6000rpm but i suspect its
    brick like aerodynamics seriously affect much more speed and do
    the consumption no good at all. So if your happy to get occasionally
    stuck behind a truck and don't want to leave rubber marks at the traffic
    lights as you pull away but do want to arrive feeling as fresh as when
    you started and need a bit of room then its probably just the ticket.
    	Compared to most cars i've been in the frontera is so so quiet and
    easy to drive, the only time you notice it's size is when you have to
    reverse it into a parking space and the lock ccould be a little more.
    	Speak to me in 6 months and i might want to exchange it for a
    calibra turbo but for the moment its FUN.
    
    
    
    REgards Martin

    re .57 no-one gets 4WD for performance?????????
    
    Subaru Legacy (which incidentaly just won the NZ rally)
    Toyota Celica (which won a world championship)
    Lancia Delta (which also won world championships)
    Audi Quattro (ditto, ditto, ditto)
    Alfa something (currently blitzing the Germans in the DTM)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

This 4WD/off-road debate is quite interesting; I'm sure it's driven (no 
pun intended) by fashion more than anything.  People seem to use 
'occasional' off-road use as an excuse for getting a  
Discovery/Shogun/Frontera/whatever whereas I suspect a previous noter was 
more honest about driving position etc.

Except for 'serious' off-roaders (river-beds, ploughed fields etc.) I 
would guess I do more off-road driving than most.  This is mainly fields 
and farm tracks but it's often very wet, muddy and slippery.  I've not 
(yet!) succumbed to the temptation of a 4WD 'truck' and to date I've 
never got stuck.  In fact I'm often surprised about the capability of 2WD 
in the mud, it's much more that people might think.  I've even managed to 
drive around a Shogun that did get stuck in the mud (which involved 
taking an even muddier line!).  To be fair, the Shogun was in 2WD at the 
time and easily pulled itself out using 4WD, but that's not a fair 
comparison!  These days I worry more about ground clearance than 
traction.

So what's the moral to all this?  Well, none really; cars are very 
personal and emotional objects and everyone has a multitude of reasons 
for choosing the ones they do.  I certainly would not presume to judge 
those choices.  But, do not fall into the trap of believing that 4WD is 
essential on anything that isn't tarmac.  Careful driving with 2WD 
(and without fancy differential controls) can get you through some pretty 
bad terrain.

Mike

    I just had a Frontera overnight on test drive, and I thought it was a
    real fun car.  The acceleration/performance is about the same as one of
    the new 1.6 escorts, and it tootles along happily at 85 on the
    Motorway.  If I had the chance, i'd get one, even tho' I'd probably
    never use it off road seriously, it was just enjoyable to drive!
    
    Mikef

Re the questions about diffs on fronterra :-

a mate of mine has the fronterra 2.0i sport (slightly quicker than the diesel -
but not what I'd call sporty) 

Cars come with a slip differential - this allows the wheel on the outside of a
curve to spin faster than the wheel on the inside. This is fine if both wheels
have grip. But if one has grip and one doesn't the power applied to both wheels
will cause the wheel with out grip to spin and the wheel with grip to stay
still.

The Limited slip diff is used when you are in 2wd to prevent one wheel spinning
like mad while the wheel with grip does nothing. the grip less wheel can only
spin so fast before power is available to the other wheel - which has grip.

Four wheel drive locks the diff so LSD is not used in 4WD mode

Generally 2WD should be used EVERYWHERE as 4WD locks the diff which means when
you go around corners you are stressing the transmission as one wheel tries to
spin faster than the other, can't and so the tyre skips/scuffs. 4WD is used in
straight lines - eg up a steep muddy / grassy hill

The owners manual states use 2wd as much as possible and leaving 4wd as soon as
you can. So I would have the limited slip diff

If you have four wheel steer now that's different....


this is our understanding from experience with tractors and reading the owners
manual.

There is a course on off road driving and my mate is going on that - any
technical tips that crop up I'll post here

	Paul.

	What I like about the four wheel drive cars is their chunky
	tonky toy appearance.  For me they exude reliability and 
	strength; mind you, I've never owned one so my perceptions
	are probably very flawed.

	Dave

    
        I had a Frontera Sport for a day last week (same one as Mikef), it
    felt safe and stable on the motorway, and the high driving position
    made the journey home more relaxing. we took it out for a roam in the
    Peak District during the evening, doing 60-70 miles on narrow, twisty
    and hilly roads. It handled well in these conditions, lights are okay
    but a pair of Cibie's would be useful.
    
     Petrol consumption was around 27-30 mpg, which I don't think is too
    bad really.
    
     Anyway, as soon as I get my Quotes back, I'll post them in the
    relevant note and then order one, and if anyone knows where I could get
    a wheel cover made with my own design on it, then it would be much
    appreciated.
    
     BTW. The 'Power Pack' (leccie windows,mirrors etc is now standard...)
    
    
    Graham.

    I get about 27-29 mpg on average from my Frontera Sport from mixed
    driving (200 miles motorway, 200 miles short trips around town roughly
    per tankful). Sounds about the same as .66 got. I am a "gentle" driver
    and I stay within the speed limit on motorways.
    *Dave

I tried the Frontera Estate during the recent Vauxhall test days. I rejected the
idea of ever owning one because of the enormous amount of roll on the most
gentle of bends.

Dave.

    re: .65
    
    About 5 years ago, I saw a Suzuki jeep on the M4 with the Tonka logo 
    painted on the side of it....
    
    Made me smile 8*)
    
    Richard

    
    Does anybody radio reception problems on their frontera or vauxhall, I
    seem to remember somebody have problems with thw amp at the base of the
    aerial but could'nt find the note.
    	The problem only occurs when moving i.e the reception flutters
    badly on all stations when they are found by the radio itself on
    autosearch or programmed by me. It is not any particular place and
    i have never had this problem with other cars, so signal blockage from
    buildings etc should'nt even come into the equation. By the way its a
    Frontera estate with the SC804  RDS radio.
    
    Any comments appreciated
    
    Martin

    Roof-mounted aerial (complete with electronics at base) on my Golf was 
    replaced and cured what sounds like the same symptoms. 
    
    FWIW

Yes, I have a Fronter estate and have had similar problems, which the dealer
attributed to a bad connection in the roof mounted aerial.

It certainly cured the fluttering problems, but the aerial system just isn't
as good as other Vauxhalls with the same radio.

If I sit in my colleagues Cavalier, parked next to mine and hit auto-search,
he gets a full complement of stations loaded. I get 3 stations!

I called the Vauxhall Customer services hot-line and they don't recognise it
as a known problem. When the Vauxhall test drive days were held here in the
Crescent I played with both model Fronteras using the auto-search test, and
got the same results as mine.

Since the local dealer cured the fluttering problems I've not had the energy
to push this any more.

Other Frontera design niggles:

1)	I have come across several estates (including mine) where the rear
	wiper scratches the paintwork below the protective strip. Mines been
	fixed but I'm not convinced...

2)	The door lock knobs on the front doors become loose and rattle. I've had
	the one on the drivers door fixed twice now

3)	Power washers on the headlights not working. I was speaking to somebody
	on my off-road training course who had to have his fixed, only to
	discover mine don't work either

Do you have the 2.4I? What sort of mpg are you getting?

-Mike-

    
    
    The only niggly i've got so far( after 9 months ownership) is the 
    front passenger seatbelt fitting vibrated when the car is running
    and produces a iritating squeaking noise......it drives me mad.
     Apart from that the car's been great.
    
     Richard

    
    Yup I've got the rattling passenger door lock that i've put up with
    for the past two weeks but is beginning to *&$% me off just a little
    now. I've not checked the headlamp washers but i will now.
    	I've not had the rear wiper scratching yet but one of my colleagues
    has had this problem.
    	Well Mike it is the 2.4i and I get about 25ish on average but
    on a run about 28-29.5 ish if i'm gentle and don't go much over 70.
    
    
    Hope this helps
    Martin

Hi Martin,

You're doing mpg along with the quoted figures but mine are worse.

I'm lucky if my mileage under local usage is much more than 20, and for a long
run, mostly motorway, speed 75 max, I'm lucky to get 25, and thats driving
with fuel consumption in mind

I've complained to the dealer, who blames cheap petrol, having plugged the
computer into the engine and found nothing wrong. He also says there's nothing
to tweak anyway.

-Mike- 

    
    mike,
    
    I'm going up North for a long weekend on sunday and expect to do about
    800 miles so i should get a more accurate everage mpg.
    	By the way I checked my head lamp washers and they dont work either
    probably never have. the door lock is now fixed, the radio is still crap
    , the headlamps are now aligned and i'm waiting for a new headlamp
    washer motor.
    
    Regards Martin

I know this might sound a statement of the obvious, but have you got your roof
aerial erect? The reception is a lot better compared with when its flat...

-Mike-

    
    Getting away from the fuel consumption bit.....anybody been off-road
    with their buses yet ? I took my sport off-road ( more mud plugging
    really) but it floundered due to the "mild" standard tyres clogging
    up with mud.The bus handled itself quite well but really needed more
    agressive tyre (m/t's)
    
                                   Richard

I went on the off road course at the Luton site.

I was VERY impressed with what it could do. The training vehicle was a 2.3D
fitted with off road tyres on steel rims and limited slip diff.
We were getting over obstacles I wouldn't have thought possible.

Off-Road Masters, who run the course, rate it up there with the best of them,
their only criticism being that the off road tyres aren't a standard offering
from Vauxhall....

-Mike-

    
    I also attended the Vauxhall Offroad Training Course but the venue
    was Ronnie Dales 4WD School in the Scottish Borders.
    The vehicle used was also a 2.3 DT and i have to admit i was VERY
    impressed with its capabilities no doubt helped by the excellent mud
    terrain tyres fitted.
     However....driving round in someone else's motor is one thing,
    when i decided to take the Sport off road i was very very cautious and
    apprehensive ....13 grands worth of motor maybe getting bumped.
     Its a pity the 2.3 td was available in the Sport.
    
     Richard

    
    oops...that should have read " wasn't available"
    
    
    Richard

    
    Latest story doing the rounds is that Vauxhall are considering
    launching a two wheel drive Frontera onto the market as research
    has should that most buyers will not even consider going off-road.
    
    
    Richard

What is the Frontera equal to in the US market?  Is it the Geo/GMC Tracker or
the Isuzu Trooper?

Dave

    It's an Isuzu of some description, but dunno what specific
    model it is...
    
    Peter.
    

I think it's called the Isuzu Mu.

re:       <<< Note 1655.85 by OASS::BURDEN_D "This is a Studebaker Year" >>>

�What is the Frontera equal to in the US market?  Is it the Geo/GMC Tracker or
�the Isuzu Trooper?

See .23

.23>the equivalent to the Frontera in the States is the Isuzu Amiga,

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of the Amiga...  The Trooper is a 5 or 6
seater utility vehicle with swing out rear doors where one is very narrow (about
12 inches).  It is available in 4wd and maybe 2wd too, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, just curious.  The last Isuzu I drove had 4 doors, seated 6 and was
over 30' long..... (24' box moving truck)

Dave

    
    In the States the Frontera is known as an AMIGO if its a short wheel 
    base and is known as a RODEO if its the long wheel base.
     The Amigo only comes as a soft top with a choice of rear wheel drive
     only or with part time 4wd.
    
    Richard 

>is known as a RODEO if its the long wheel base.

Must be a comment on the sloppy suspension!

Dave ;-)

    ... there will be a Vauxhall badged equivalent of the Trooper released
    to the UK market next year... according to CARWEEK a few weeks back.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

    
    Vauxhall will sell the current Trooper from 94 as the Vauxhall
    Monterey.
     The current importer has lost the franchise for the UK and as GM
    Europe already sells the trooper as the Opel Monterey on the continent
    it makes sense to badge it as a Vauxhall in the UK.
    
     Getting back to the Frontera's. If there are any drivers who would
     like to increase their mpg's there is a fuel additive on the market
     called FUELSET. Recently it was tested in a Diahatsu Fourtrack
     (Offroad and 4wd magazine) and it resulted in and increase in both
     mpg's and power of approx 13%.
      I can supply a number and address of the distributer if anybody is
     interested.
    
    
     Richard

    Can you please supply the name and address of the Uk distributor for
    FUELSET and a telephone number if you have one.
    
    Dave.

    
    
       Here's the info I have about FUELSET.Unfortunately I didn't have
       the phone number written down so i can't supply that piece of info.
    
        DISTRIBUTOR :    Oakford Resourses (UK) Ltd
                         Millbridge House
                         Middlebridge Street
                         Romsey
                         Hants
                          SO51 8HJ
    
    
       The folowing prices may not now be correct as I wrote this down
       a few months ago but should be close enough to give an idea.
    
       250 ml ...6.95
    
       500 ml....11.40
    
       1 Ltr.....20.80
    
       The above prices were for readers of OFFROAD and 4WD MAGAZINE and
       i believe were slightly discounted so they may be slightly 
       different now but there may still be a discounted price if you
       say you saw the article about fuelset in the magazine.
    
                          hope this helps
    
      Richard

    More on the radio...
    
    The reception is still crap although when it was in the garage for the
    headlamp washer pump replacement they said the mounting  was loose, but
    since the its developed a water leak and i've asked them to look at it
    again, But it looks like there may be a general problem as he said a
    guy came in last week and had the same problems so he wrapped some wire
    around the threads of the mounting plate and coiled it up the ariel
    and all is now cured.......
    
    Martin

    
    Can anybody give me an idea of the cost of the 9000 mile service for
    the SPORT model as its coming round to that time.
    
                                cheers
    
     Richard

    
    Martin,
    I've been reading about your radio problems and a couple of things
    struck me,
    If the garage wrap a piece of wire round the threads and up the aerial
    and that fixes the reception, then the aerial must be open circuit! Or
    at least the connection between antenna and coax must have a high
    resistance joint.
    
    Secondly, many auto search radios deliberately turn the gain of the
    antenna down on the first pass, because if they did not, you would have
    to keep hitting the button to step on, every few KHz.
    What happens if you scan say three times? It probably picks up more
    stations on subsequent passes.
    Also, some have a dx button on them, which when enabled, increases the
    gain of the tuner and so pulls in the weak stations.
    
    Just a thought.
    
    Bill

    Hello Bill,
    
    apparantly it was the customer who did the trick with the wire just to
    prove to the garage that there must be a problem somewhere.
    	And no the radio picks up no more stations no matter how many times
    you autosearch and don't forget even the stations it does find begin to
    fade, flutter, disappear as soon as you move off from being stationary.
    
    
    Regards martin

Your symptoms sound just like mine.

Once the garage had the aerial off and reconnected it, successive passes through
scan were able to pull in more stations (and the fading out was fixed)

-Mike-

    
    Well i put the 'BUS' in for the service.....cost approx 80 pounds.
    66 of which was labour........well i suppose dropping the sump guard
    makes for extra work. I also asked about the rattling seatbelt
    release fitting and was told that it would be changed under warranty
    as Vauxhall were aware of this perticular problem.
    
    Richard

    
    I've just had a 'phone call from Grimshaw's (our appointed dealer in
    the North West) that my Frontera Sport has arrived !
    
     They expect to deliver within 7 days, after doing the PDI, and fitting
    various options. Can't wait to go hacking around the Peak District in
    it - just in time for the snow as well....
    
     for those who are interested in the cost of the 'non-standard' options
    here's what I've asked for :-
    
    	Power Pack (leccie windows etc) - orginally 90 quid but now free.
    	Tow Bar c/w twin electrics	-   78 quid
    	Side window bag			-   10
    	Clear Bonnet protector		-   14
    	A-line front nudge bar		-   49
    	Sill rails			-   41
    	Front lamp grills		-   17
    	Rear  lamp grills		-   14
        Rear bumper lamp grills		-   10
    
     Also, Diamond black paint, manual front hubs, LSD, alloy wheels,
    Headlamp washers, Roof bars, Sc804 rad/cass all from PCL.
     
     Driver price was 3578 - 90 for the no-cost leccie windows = 3488.
    
    Do any of the other Frontera drivers know where we stand regarding
    Insurance when no longer on the Queens Highway - ie. Off-road ?
    
    Also, what's the official procedure if I want to fit my own Cibie's ?
    on the test drive I didn't rate GM's own lamps, so I'd like to fit the
    Bi-Oscars that are collecting dust in my garage.....
    
    Graham

    }} Do any of the other Frontera drivers know where we stand regarding
    }} Insurance when no longer on the Queens Highway - ie. Off-road ?
    
    Well VTX doesn't seem to say anything so I'd check with Insurance if I
    were you.
    
    Greg

    
    Re; tow bar 78 quid .....I believe the list on vtx says 62 quid.
    

Re .102
>>> Also, Diamond black paint, manual front hubs, LSD, alloy wheels,
						  ^^^

I assume that really means Limited Slip Diff?  Is that one at each end?  Or just
one in the middle?

			Malcolm.

    I think the LSD option was discussed before. According to the brochure,
    the LSD only affects the driving wheels when in 2 wheel drive mode.
    
    Royston
    

    
     re a few back, the towbar is more expensive because of the twin
    electrics.
    
     The LSD as I understand it, is on the back axle and so will still
    operate on the rear wheels even in 4X4 mode ???
    
    Graham_3_Days_And_Counting...

    I believe in 4X4 mode all wheels are fixed and driven together.
    
    Royston

On the off road training course I was told that the LSD was between front and
rear, so that if the front or rear appears to be free wheeling with respect
to the other, than the diff locks to give drive where needed....

-Mike-

    The brochure says LSD on rear wheels only. See 1655.52
    
    Royston

    
    ...This LSD stuff has prompted me to dig out a Vauxhall promotional Road
    Test - it's a Reprint from Car magazine of a Group test between Discovery,
    Frontera Estate and Terrano II/Maverick....
    
    In comparing the Mechanical setup of the three vehicles it makes the
    following comment about the Frontera :-  "....... A limited-sllip rear
    diff is Optional."
    
    Personally, I'd rather believe the guys at the training school, however
    I don't *think* Vauxhall would use this as promo material if it was
    wrong, and Car magazine are usually pretty good.....
    
    Graham 

    The Frontera brochure refers to the LSD on the rear axle only.
    
    Mikef 

    There's some special edition of the Frontera about to be released which
    comes with a free matching matching mountain bike (as in the bike is 
    painted the same colour as the Frontera)....
    
    Just think, you could drive around with the mountain bike attached to
    the Frontera (on the rear-facing rack is best).... if that doesn't
    convince people you really do go off-roading... nothing will ;-)
    
    Stephen

    Hi all,
    
    I have just read a note reply that mentioned a FRONTERA DIAMOND.  What
    is the spec on this model compared with the standerd 5 door?.  I am
    thinking of ordering the 5 door with nudge bar + driver lamps, side
    steps & alloys. I worked it out at about �984. If the Diamond has a few
    extras added as standerd, it may be cheaper to go for that model.
    
    Also, has anybody got a date for the BMW engine being fitted to the
    FRONTERA TD???
    
    I have put my Renault 19 16V up for take over because I need a bigger
    vehicle.
    
    Col.

The Diamond I looked came wtih bars, steps D.Lamps and F.lamps and alloys. IT 
was �2500 more on list price to allow for that lot and for Leather seats.

It was much cheaper to lease the standard Frontera even with the extras. I 
don't know what extra you'd pay for the seats, but if you're going to use 
the vehicle in dodgy conditions, and I will, leather seats is the last thing 
to have fitted.

    Hi,
    
    I`m answering my own notes entries now...
    
    I have just phoned our local Vauxhall dealer about the Frontera
    Diamond. Here is the spec.
    
    FRONT NUDGE BAR IN CHROME.
    SIDE STEPS IN CHROME
    METALIC PAINT
    FULL LEATHER INTERIOR.
    
    �19,290. LIST PRICE.
    
    I will have to work out the likely lease cost to driver for this one.
    
    Col.

    Hi,
    
    What do you mean by it`s cheaper to lease than the standerd one on the
    scheme??
    
    Have you had a quote ????
    
    Col.

	I know someone who has had a quote.....

	4800 quid !!! 
	
	Andy

    The List price quoted � 19,290, is for the 2.3 TD , the 2.4i lists at
    �18,295.
    
    Was the quote for 4800 for the petrol or TD. ??
    
    Interested of Basingstoke,!
    
    Andy

Pass ! 

I'll try and find out ....

Andy

    The write up I read about the Diamond said that it was a limited
    edition, only 250 or some such low number.  If that is right I don't
    think it will be discounted so the lease price might not be as good as
    ordering a standard one with the same extras.
    
    tp

    Hi,
    
    Your correct. I contacted fleet.  The nice lady told me that it is not
    discounted because it is a limited edition.  Only 750 being made (
    Vauxhall told me ). 
    
    I got a brochure for the Diamond.  It`s about as close as I`ll get to
    having one at �4800.
    
    The next best thing is the five door TD fitted with nudge + all lamps,
    side steps, alloys at about �3934.
    
    I would liike the petrol version but over 60k miles the fuel
    consumption would mean the kids go without shoes.
    
    Col.

    Well Col. you seem to have found your moved notes.
    
    I'll now delete 2177 "Vanishing NOTES". Thanks for replying there
    (not).
    
    Royston

    Hi royston,
    
    Sorry about the mix up, I rarely use notes so probably break the rules
    when I do. 
    
    I do not envy you trying to keep ontop of this lot ( Creep creep ).
    
    Regards,
    
    Col.

    No worries Col.
    
    Thanks for the acknowledgement.

    Does anyone out there have a Frontera Sport with the optional
    sc804 sterio. If so, do you think that the speakers are able to handle
    it. The speakers in mine can't handle any base atall without getting
    distortion. I have been to a car radio specialist and he told me
    that he doesn't even stock that kind of speaker because they are so
    rubbish.
    Surely if you pay for an upgraded sterio you should expect speakers
    that can handle the output? However the argument I am having with
    vauxhall is that it is the standard speaker that they fit and there is
    not any choice.

    Forgot to stick me name down.
    
    
    My names Matt, any answers appreciated

    
     Why have an upgraded incar hi-fi in the first place. You have to 
     remember that this is an off road vehicle we're discussing and if
     you have been off road you'll know that it doesn't make two hoots
     what hifi you've got cos you can't hear it for all the noise the
     car is making.
    
    
      Richard 

	I think Matt was intending to use the roads to get to work, I dont think
PM&S at Decpark would be to pleased about him taking the cross country route into
the carpark :-)

Andy

Re last,

	Well, it should be quicker getting into DEC Park via the fields 
than going up the A33 :-)

    Can someone, either in the Crescent/Viables or DECpark, lend me their
    2.4 Frontera for a quick test drive. ??
    
    Wadham Kenning do not have one to try, or have one coming in the near
    future, so I'm stuck.
    
    I have never driven a Frontera before and need to move quite quickly if
    I going to get hold of a Diamond Frontera, as Vauxhall only have few
    unallocated.?
    
    Any Offers ?
    
    Please mail or phone 7844 3253.
    
    Andy

    
    Ok,point taken but what i meant was would you really be able to
    appreciate a good quality sound system in a 4 wheeler ? and if its 
    never going to be used off road is there any point in owning an
    off road vehicle ?
    
    Richard

    Theres about as much chance of enjoying godd sound as there is in most
    cars with standard sound systems.  I recall it sounding quite good.
    
    The point in owning an off road vehicle - there are really good fun! 
    Who cares whether it ever goes off road or not?
    
    Mikef

    I think the answer to the last question is... "The people who don't
    have a 4x4!"  ;-)
    
    
    Reargards,
    
    
    Stephen

    
    RE .132
    
     Richard,
           the difference with modern 4x4's is they are quiet enough to
    make a radio/cassette feasable. This is how the previous noter could
    tell that the cassette/radio playback is not to the usual ICE
    standards. Being the proud keeper of an AWDC stage prepared Land Rover
    IIA the Frontera is nothing like a working 4X4 (although I believe that
    it is quite capable on loose terrain). It's quiet, comfortable, warn,
    and it doesn't bounce harshly when travelling in a straight line, it
    also doesn't require 2x de-clutches to use the gears. Therefore I can
    say, quite comfortably that if you want to listen to a sterio/radio
    whilst flying across the fields then get a modern day 4X4, if you
    prefer to listen to engine revs, metal against stone, transmission
    whine and tyre rumble then get pre-1969 4X4.
    
      regards
    
       Alan.

    Matt,
    
    I could'nt agree more, the speakers are really crap with the SC804. I
    even had a spare set of low end kenwood speakers (30 quid) and even
    these distort if thye music is quite a lot of base. I'm by no means
    an expert but the SC804 is 4 x 20 watts which from what i've seen is
    quite good output, The only problem is the actual hole for the speakers
    which allows for a 10cm cone, even if you bought some quite upmarket
    speakers is just not big enough to give you a decent response.
    
    Regards Martinf

I hear (from the local paper) that there is a Soft-top version of the
Frontera Sport on the way...

    
    Alan,
         at the next AWDC meeting if theres ant Frontera's there ask the
    owner for a wee jaunt round the site,i can asure you theres plenty
    of transmission whine,metal scrapping and thumping and bumping of
    suspension parts.....and if its fitted with aggressive tyres i'm sure
    there will be more than enough tyre rumble.( Well mine does anyway) :-)
    
    
    Richard

    
    Richard,
        The Landie should be about due for it's "use in anger" with the
    AWDC "pre christmas" jaunt (read that as upside down in the snow tour).
    The point that I was trying to make is that our LandRover has a metal
    floor pan with strategic holes drilled in it for drainage, where the
    Frontera has carpets, we've got ventillation flaps to the outside where
    the frontera has a heater, Tyre rumble is not a problem with our
    Landie, 'cause the engine, gearbox whine, lightened panel vibration etc
    blockout all exterior noises (and you can't hear yourself think
    either), the one thing that our LandRover has that the Frontera doesn't
    is a spare engine (although thats got 3inches silt in with the oil now)
    :-)
    
    I'd like to have a go in a frontera, just to compare it with the Range
    Rover...
    
    Alan 

I'll be in UCG Reception around 1:30 today if you'd like a go in mine - 2.3td

    
    Thanks for the offer Mark, but being a Customer services engineer (read
    performing monkey :-) ) I'm situated on-site in the back-roads to
    Oxford.
    
    Alan
    

I was in our local PCL Vauxhall dealer today and if anyone does go for the 
DIAMOND version there is a free DAWES Mountain Bike given away with each one.

So who gets it the end user or HERTZ ???????????


					St

    
    
>>> DIAMOND version there is a free DAWES Mountain Bike given away with each one.
    
    
    Hardly *free* when you consider the price %^)
    
    BTW. any feedback on which Off-road training course is the
    best/worst/most fun ???
    
    
    Graham

     
    Ronnie Dales Offroad Driving School is pretty good.They have over 2000
    acres of land and a choice of vehicles. I have a leaflet somewhere
    with all the details.There is an article in Decembers issue of OffRoad
    and 4wd magazine.
    
    Richard

    I asked one of the instructors which he thought was the best - He
    recommended Luton.

The school which took my course at Luton go to the other centres from time
to time. The instructor on my course was adamant that Luton was the best

I also heard this from another, less biased source...

-Mike-

    Hi,
    
    To change the subject.....
    
    Could anybody currently driving a Frontera 2.3TD or 2.4i please let me
    know what your average MPG is.
    
    I am about to order a replacement car after driving a Renault 19 16V.
    I am getting 27-30MPG at the moment. If the Frontera can manage to beat
    that I will be ordering one.  I realize that my driving habits will
    change drastically. The 0 to 60 in 7 are gone. I will need a
    calender to measure the 0-06 in a Frontera but who cares?  The cops are
    clamping down on speeding up `ere in`t north, so the Frontera is just
    what I need to keep my licence.....and life I suppose.
    
    I had a BIG Chevy Blazer for two years when I was working in Saudi
    Arabia and enjoyed every minute of it. I took a Frontera out for a run
    up the M6 and down some country lanes.  I like the driving position and
    comfort. Yes it`s slow, but I could get used to that.
    
    Regards
    
    Col.  

    The 2.3 td gives me around 30mpg, but you don't want to delve into the
    realms of high speed crusing !

My 2.4I is really killing me on fuel consumption, to the extent that I'm
seriously contemplating putting it up for take over/exchange.

Around town it averages out to 20mpg - motorway driving, speed less than 75,
and cautious driving I get 25/26 mpg.

-Mike-

    My sentements entirely Mike !.
    
    I have had the 2.4i since the 1st of November and it seems that no matter 
    how I drive it the average is always 22mpg.
    
    I travel 44 miles/day round trip to Aberdeen with a 1/4 of the journey
    in Aberdeen city and the rest on open road (60 mph) and I still only
    get 22mpg.
    
    Next week I intend to swap Frontera's with one of the guy's in Aberdeen
    office to see if there is any difference.
    
    Dave @ EDA.
    
    
    
    

    How can you guys possibly be surprised with poor fuel consumption 
    is you get a vehicle with a 2.4 engine with the aerodynamics of a brick ?
    
    Royston

Thats one way of summing it up.....


Hee hee hee hee

Andy

    
    
     Aerodynamics of a brick........and a hefty kerb weight and if its
     fitted with the alloys wheels.......big fat tyres !!!!!!!!
    
    
    
      Richard

>>> Title:  lease cars should be 1.4 Astra's

	Any particular reason?

				Malcolm. (questioning a statement like that)

    
    >> any particular reason ?  
    
      yes but its nothing to do with Frontera's , which happened to be on
     tv last night.An article about the Ronnie Dale Offroad Driving School
     in the Scottish Borders and driving a 4wd in wintery conditions.
     The Frontera looked very impressive as it found its way through deep
     snow drifts.....coped very well considering its supposed to be an
     "All Roader" as opposed to off roader.
    
     Richard

>>> Title:  lease cars should be 1.4 Astra's
	    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Any particular reason?

				Malcolm. (questioning a statement like that)

	What has this to do with the Frontera?

    HI All,
    	Just back in the office today, and I have a note on my desk saying
    that a Frontera is being delivered to the Warrington office on the 10th
    for a test drive (possibly for a couple of days, the note actually says
    until the 15th).  
    
    	I've changed my mind about having a Frontera, so is there anyone
    out in Warringtonland who would like to have this Frontera Sport for a
    test?  If I haven't heard by lunchtime/early afternoon, I'll ring them
    up and cancel it.
    
         Mike Fiddler (@OLO, 7851 2930).

    Hi,
    
    I have just finished testing a Frontera 2.3 TD for a week. I like it
    even though its slow.  I managed to get 28 mpg on average. 
    
    The main thing I noticed was that I was`nt as stressed out after a long
    trip. It was very a nice experience to be in a high driving position
    cruising along at a sensible speed for once. The last time I went that
    slow I was in my pram. If anything is gained by driving like this, it
    is probably that I`ll live a bit longer. 
    
    Consider it ordered.
    
    Col.

    > If anything is gained by driving like this, it
    > is probably that I`ll live a bit longer. 
    
    No, it will just seem like it :-)

    One has to travel at the speed of light to not age at all, time slows
    as one approaches 186,000 miles per second.
    The difference between 70 oan 80 mph is probably negligible.
    
    Andrew

    I'll post this here as well as in the Wanted note to ensure maximum
    chance of it being read! (also in READING conference)
    
    I am using a Frontera Sport until my replacement car is delivered, but
    the previous keeper has left no documentation (drivers handbook etc).
    
    Is anyone (preferably @REO but UCG and UVO are on my way home) able to 
    lend me the papers so I can photocopy and return them ASAP?
    
    
    Thanks in advance
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    I am the proud owner of a Frontera Sport. I'll be happy to lend you the
    docs, I am in REO and will try to bring them in on monday. Contact me
    on 2017, I sit in F7.
    
    Keith Cooper.
    

    Beware of long delays on Frontera orders!!
    
    2.4i LWB ordered 8 Oct 93
    Delivery quoted as 15 Jan 94
    Changed to 21 Jan
    Delayed to 25 Jan
    Now on an indefinite delay due to "material shortage".  The local fleet
    salesman can't get any more than that out of Vauxhall.
    
    The only extras ordered are metallic paint, nudge bar and lights, and
    side steps.
    
    Anybody able to shed any light on possible "material shortages"??
    
    Gerry.
    Who's hoping he gets some 4WD before the snow comes.
    

    
    
    Since the Fronteras are just rebadged Isuzus, the delays are probably
    not the fault of Vauxhall. 
    

    	Just for your interest?, my 2.4i went in last week for its 27,000
    	mile service. I got it back one week later after the following
    	had been replaced:-
    		
    			New head gasket (oil leak?)
    			New radiator
    			New sump gasket (oil leak?)
    			New back axle gasket (oil leak?)
    			New catalyst (2nd one?)
    			
    	Not bad going for a frontera thats 1yr old in march??. 
    	( but I still like it?).
    
    	P.S. before you say anything, I do not off road??.
    
    	Colin.

    
    Last Friday I travelled to Wrexham for my free Off road driving course. I
    was very impressed with the standard of tuition, the willingness of the
    instructor to talk about other aspects of Off-roading other than the
    basics we were being taught, and of course the capability of the
    vehicle.
     I've had a Frontera Sport for just 3 Months now and covered 7K miles,
    there have been no problems so far, just a couple of niggles really -
    the steering wheel isn't on straight ! and every time I park it it
    loses some coolant from the Header tank - which arew goinfg to be
    sorted at it's first service in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    
     A couple of pointers for those of you who already have one, keep an
    eye on the wheel nuts the shiny tops are seperate to the main nut, when
    it eventuually breaks off you're left with a different size nut
    underneath, which your wheelbrace doesn't fit -carry a spider !, also
    those Lamp grills eventuall break at the top due to vibration and then
    damage your paintwork. Finally the Stone chip protector thing that you
    can have fitted to your bonnet doesn't have any drain holes, it qwill
    eventually cause the bonnet to rust through unless you 'modify' it.....
    
    Thes points were all raised with a Vauxhall guy who was there on the
    day, and all will be reported and acted upon.....
    
    
    graham  

    
    Just a small thing I picked up from the last note about the steering
    wheel not being on straight,it's the same with my corsa.
    
    Does it turn slightly to the left?
    
    
    Andy.

    
    Andy, I assume from your last note that you mean "does it turn slightly
    to the left, if you hold it in the straight ahead position...."; with
    mine if you point the steering wheel straight ahead then you meet the
    oncoming traffic on the opposite carriageway within the next 20-30
    yards !
    
     I've been very happy with the Frontera so far, *but* if it's supposed
    to have had a PDI and Road test, then you'd think someone might have
    noticed....
    
    Graham

    Just a point to mention regarding the previous replies on steering?,
    my 2.4i had a severe pull to the left?. The garage has had three
    attempts at putting it right, but it still has a slight left pull.
    The garage manager told me this was common to veichles with large
    tyres?, (I got pains laughing??), and duly told him I would be very
    wary of lorrys in future??.
    Meanwhile I am used to the pull now, so I have not bothered to do
    anymore about it. 
    
    Be interested to know if anyone else has a similar problem?.
    
    Be safe
    	    Colin.

My 2.4tdi did the same. One garage came up with the fact that I had an odd 
tread pattern on one and rearranged the tyres. It helped a bit.

On days like today, don't you just love 4wd ? 

M.

p.s. 	and hate the car in front, which whatever the advert says, is always 
	a bloody metro doing 1mph.

I had a similar problem once, where the car needed to have the steering
wheel off centre in order to proceed straight ahead, 'cos the car pulled to
one side.  Swapping the front wheels around caused the pull etc. to be to the
other side - turned out to be a faulty tyre.

				Malcolm.

    
    ...thanks for the comments, but it's a lot more simple than that - the
    steering wheel just isn't on straight ! with the wheels pointing
    straight ahead, the steering wheel is turned a few degrees to the
    right. The steering doesn't pull in either direction and the tyre wear
    is even....
    
    
    Graham

    
    
    Colin,
         if you have a 4X4 (with auto hubs) that is pulling to one side try
    reversing at a moderate speed for approx 10 meters (30 feet). This
    should release the hub windup and stop the extra drag through that side
    of the axle.
    
     regards
    
    
      Alan
    

I've just had a Frontera 2.3TD for 5 days, I loved it but the overal mpg is what
is going to stop me ordering one:

	Motorway driving @ 70mph = 33mpg
	Local driving around the Devon lanes = 25mpg
	Motorway driving @ 80mph = 28mpg

Just a little bit too juicy for me - shame because its the nicest vehicle I've 
driven in a long time.

One thing the delivery guy almost confirmed was that there is going to be a new
diesel engine fitted soon, something in the 3.0l range which will be more 
economical and powerfull so - I try one of them !

Andy

shame about the rear wiper, I can see that will be a rust problem on used models.

    Andy,
    
    I don't pretend to try and influence you, but have you done the sum.
    I'm always surprised at how little difference mpg makes. 50K miles at
    30mpg and 40mpg results, at 2.50 per gallon in 1042 pounds, over 3
    years is 350 pounds per year. Not that huge a number. It does depend a
    lot on your mix of driving, too much in the 25 range makes a dent!
    
    Andrew

Andrew
	I appreciate what you are saying, if it was doing between 30mpg and 40mpg
I'd have one, trouble is that the majority of it will be around the 25-30mpg 
range and whilst I could forgive it, I loose the argument with my wife - who 
doesn't really like it anyway. Also I will do 50,000 in two years so that is over
�500 quid extra a year !!!!

	However after a little chat with Vauxhall this morning, they have 
promised me a test of the new Monteray, this is of the Isuzu Trooper kind and has
the larger engine which hopefully will promise better mpg.

	I think when it comes to it I'll probably end up ordering one in the 
autumn, provided the price doesn't go up too much in July !

	Meanwhile I evny all of you lucky people with Frontera's

	Andy

    �Meanwhile I evny all of you lucky people with Frontera's
    
    I guess this is one of those things where you lov 'em or hate 'em
    but I just can't see the attraction of this type of vehicle.
    
    I mean it has the performance of a milk float and the fuel economy
    of a Sherman tank. What is it about these vehicles that you like ?
    
    Having said that, I drove a Sport when they had the vauxhall demo day
    last year and thought it was fun to drive round the block but then
    so would the opportunity to drive a doubledecker bus :-)
    
    Royston

    Is the Frontera permanent 4x4?
    If so, does it have freewheeling hub thingys?
    Does it have hi/lo ratio gears?
    
    Andy (whose always wanted a sherman milk float, but doesn't know much
    about them :-)

It is not permanent 4WD. You can have auto or manual locking Hubs and both 
high and low ratios in 4WD.

M.

p.s. I average 31mph and do about 60,000 m.p.a.

>> p.s. I average 31mph and do about 60,000 m.p.a

	I think the novelty of a Frontera might wear off at that speed -):

	Andy

Actually, having done 12000 since early december, I'm a bit surprised about 
what I do think of the car.

I always used to do a great deal of bus. mileage. This dropped off in the 
summer and so I felt safe getting a Frontera.

Obviously, as soon as I ordered the thing, my job changed again and my 
mileage was right back up where it was.

You need to suffer a change of attitude to have one of these. I always was 
one of the bigger boy racers around, except I'm old. It was always me tearing 
around the motorways at stupid speeds (nicked at 118.5) and racing away from 
traffic lights. You can't do that with one of these. HOwever, it's a much 
mroe relaxed level of driving and I really don't notice much change in my 
journey times. THe one exception is when trying to save time on country roads 
- at these times I always used a binary throttle and brake. The frontera 
simply isn't intended for hard braking and hard acceleration.

IT is, however, seriously comfortable on long distance, motorway drives. I 
tend to drive around 80mph most of the time, as opposed to 90 - 95 in my 
previous car. IT is very spacious and very capable off-road. It gets used 
off-road a lot.

I love it to bits. I reckon it'll need replacing around christmas and all 
things being equal, I shall get another.

    
    Re the mpg stuff a few back; 
    
    I'm getting around 28mpg out of my Sport, which compares well to my
    2.8i Capri. Also the Capri was a lot quicker on open roads, but on
    country lanes I can now see over the hedges etc. so on my usual 40 mile
    journey to work the times are about equal.
    
    Btw. Where do you people live to pay #2.50/gallon ?? its #2.20-#2.25 in
    my area,. with 5p of a gallon for regular customers.....
    
    
    Graham

    
    Question,
    
    What's the rangeon a tankful with the Frontera Sport? I can probably
    live with the mileage, but if it can't go 450 - 500 miles on a tankful
    then it's a real pain.
    
    Ta
    
    Nigel
    

another thing to bear in mind about Fronteras 

they are toys, not real 4WD vehicles

a mate wrote one off after driving through a puddle

but if you want to cruise up the motorway - I agree it is very comfortable -
but get a decent stereo, the supplied ones give dodgy RTS - retuning to worse
frequencies etc.


re the q about 4wd - yse they can have free wheeling hubs (whatever it's
called) and a limited slip diff, the 4wd is engaged with a secondary gear lever

not an expert on fronteras
but then I don't want to be :-)

	cheers

		Paul.

    
    i think you would have to question your mates ability to drive a 
    frontera in 4wd......mines has been everywhere a ladie can go.
    
    
    
    Richard

    
    
    oops...spot the spelling mistake..well thats nightshift for you...
    
    
      it should have read   everywhere a landie can go.
    
    
      Richard(who can't spell )

>they are toys, not real 4WD vehicles

I beleive you may be talking through something which wasn't designed for the 
purpose. Still, no doubt you have wide experience of the vehicle and know 
what you're talking about.

>not an expert on fronteras,but then I don't want to be :-)

Ah, Apparantly you're not.

>a mate wrote one off after driving through a puddle

Neither is A. Mate.

>>> a mate wrote one off after driving through a puddle
    
 If you did a quick poll of people who've written-off vehicles, I thinbk
    you'd find that 100% of them were not the fault of the vehicle, in most
    cases it's the driver, in some a.n.other driver......
    
    Graham
    
    BTW, I've written-off several, and I wouldn't blame the vehicle for any
    of them !
    

re .181

    > It was always me tearing around the motorways at stupid speeds
    > (nicked at 118.5) ...
    
    Sounds like an insane speed to me. Is this the same noter as in 24.4053 ?
    
    -=paul=-

    
    
    .....4X4 alone does not make a vehicle "off-roadable"
    
    I've seen Land Rovers with radial road tyres that couldn't navigate a
    wet lawn. My future father in law (possibly) has a Bedford van thats
    wearing S.A.Ts (super all terrain tyres) and this van gets to whereever
    his broken tractor maybe.....and back
    
    re Frontera's and puddles.
      I wouldn't worry about this, My future brother in law (possbly) wrote
    off a Land Rover engine the same way, it's just that his puddle managed
    to cover the lower half of the windscreen before the engine died. This
    engine has the air intake on the roof, but the oil fillers still under
    the bonnet and that becomes an ideal silt filler..
    
      Alan
    
    ps. richard where were you on the 13/02/94....'cause I didn't see you
    at the Alton trials. Btw Alton was found not guilty of causing lasting
    damage to my LR (although my driving was convicted)....:-)
    

I know you're not all that smart Paul, but I would have thought that the word 
"stupid", as used in that sentence, would have stood out to you.

my point of view:

The frontera is sold as an all terrain vehicle 
but basically it's for posing

some solid facts:

it is a comfortable car
impressive things can be done off-road in a frontera
they can be written off � by driving through small puddles


my opinion:

name calling, insults, etc are bad notes

	cheers
		Paul.


� actually after a lot of hassle with Vauxhall they have suddenly changed their
tune and will look at the fault rather than simply writing the whole car off -
more news when I hear it. 

My opinion -

I have one, you don't. 
I used to have a Landrover
I use the Frontera off road frequently - More than once a week, it is very 
capable.

If you don't like it, don't get one. What do you drive ?

Also, you think name calling is bad noting ? How does that fit with the title 
of your note ?

    So what exactly was it about this puddle that damaged the car? (my
    understanding of puddle: area of water 1 to 2 feet across, no more than
    1 or 2 inches deep) Perhaps clarification of the accident may help the
    squabbling?!

    I thought I would try to find any truth about some info I was told
    of the other day?.
    
    Are catalysts prone to collapsing internally?, by going over rough
    terrain?. If so, it seems a bit pointless putting one on a Frontera,
    or any 4x4?, mine has had 2 in the course of a year, due to collapsing,
    according to the garage??.
    
    Any of you experts out there heard any truth in this.
    
    Regards
    
    	    Colin.

    SOunds about right.... The other thing you shouldn't do is immerse
    these widgets in water as this can cause irreparable damage to the
    catalyst as well... 
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

        Which just goes to show that these sport vehicles aren't really 
        off road vehicles.
        
        Simon$Landrover_owner

    All these questions about Catalytic Converters has made me think. Does
    the 2.3 TD have a CAT or not?
    
    	Chris.
    
    PS> I have had my 2.3TD for two weeks now and am very happy with it.
    MPG at around 30 mpg but I haven't started booting it yet. (not sure if
    I want to:-) 

Has anybody noticed a problem with their Sport's oil pressure taking an
unusually long time to come up when it's started from cold?
Mine was taking about 7 seconds for the pressure light to go out, so it has
been back to the garage a few times. The first time they said they traced it
to a broken wire! The second time they replaced the oil pressure sender unit.
The third time (three weeks/1000 miles ago) they replaced the oil pump and
big end bearing shells (all under warranty). It was OK after this time for the
first couple of weeks, but for the last 4 days the time it takes for the oil
light to go out has increased to 4 seconds. I've checked the oil level and
it's still on the MAX mark.

Anyway, the garage are going to take another look at it Saturday, I just hope
they don't trace it down to another broken wire ;-)

Bill

    
    Bill, I've noticed with mine that it does take a few moments to for the
    pressure to register when started from cold. What worries me more is
    that the oil pressure seems to surge occasionally, which could be due
    to the pressure sender if it uses one instead of a pressure gauge.
    
    The first service is tomorrow so I'll ask them to look at it - along
    with the radio (RDS/volume compensation thingy), rusty lamp grill
    screws (one has sheared off), badly fitted steering wheel, coolant
    leakage, rear seat hinge covers (both cracked), rattling seat belt clip
    and (noticed at the w/e) badly fitted carpet....
    
    apart from all that it's great, and they are mostly just niggles.
    
    Graham
    
    BTW. it had a new fuel pump at 8000 miles. 

    When a Frontera estate doesn't have the wheel outside, where does its
    have it? Just it just rattle around in the boot, or is it under-floor,
    side mounted etc.?
    
    Andy

    It's mounted inside at the rear on the passenger side.
    
    Gerry
    

    Well, I've had my 2.4i petrol estate for almost 2 months now and I'm
    really pleased with it - very comfortable and easy to drive.
    
    Mileage varies between 19 and 23 mpg, 19 to and from work with equal
    dual carriageway/single hilly roads, and 23+ on the motorway on long
    journeys averaging 80/85mph.  And the petrol here costs #2.60 per
    gallon!!!!
    
    Gerry.
    

	How do you afford those sort of MPGs at that price for petrol on DIGITAL
salaries - after going on 4 years without any increase?

	And yes, I would probably have taken the package if it had been offered!

				Malcolm.

Malcolm,

	work it out for yourself!

At �2-60 a gallon, and 20mpg it costs 13p per mile.

The mileage rate is 8p per mile, so _you_ end up paying 5p per mile.

If you do 10,000 business miles per year, this "excess" only amounts
to 500 quid a year - WORST CASE!!

Now drive gently, buy your gas at Tesco on this side of the Irish Sea,
maybe you don't do so many business miles, and the extra cost per year
is similar to one or two factory fitted options. I would be more
concerned about the _lease_ cost of �800 over a "free car" for the
2.4i petrol.


mb

    The calculations in .207 assume that ALL mileage done is valid for
    recompense from Digital. I doubt whether this is the case. 
    
    Terry

>    The calculations in .207 assume that ALL mileage done is valid for
>    recompense from Digital. I doubt whether this is the case. 

... er, i thought that i said ...

>> If you do 10,000 business miles per year, this "excess" only amounts
                    ========

... or am i missing something?

mb

    Martin, 
    
    	sorry, you did say 10,000 business miles, but the figure of �500
    as the worst case implies no further costs. Otherwise, it wouldn't be
    the worst case, would it ?
    
    	Terry

	Your �500.00 for business miles isn't the whole story though, is it.

	You are paying more for all your milage.  your costs don't just
magically reduce because you are not doing business miles - or do they?

				Malcolm.

>	Your �500.00 for business miles isn't the whole story though, is it.

True, but you do have a choice as to how many non-business miles that you
do, in just the same way as you can choose how much you want to spend
on a car. It is up to you what you get up to in your spare time!

All i was trying to say is that the cost of "poor mpg" when you only
get 8p per mile isn't _too_ bad.

Martin (who would rather be happy and broke, rather than sad and rich) Bell

    The cost of high fuel consumption should not be an overriding
    consideration, but you must evaluate it correctly.
    
    You need to find the total additional cost of fuel. It does not matter
    whether it is used for business or private use.
    
    E.g.
    
    suppose you do 10000 business miles, and 10000 private miles per year.
    Assume you get 20mpg at �2.60 per gallon, and that the other car you
    are considering get 35 mpg.
    
    Then the additional fuel cost of using the high consumption car is
    
     ( (20000/20) - (20000/35) )* 2.60 = �1114.29
    
    If you buy cheaper fuel, or drive more carefully, you will reduce this
    figure.
    
    Andrew

    
    
    
    Scuse my ignorance people...but just who exactly foots the bill for
    all this petrol?  Is that where my non existant pay rise went ???
    
    
    Richard

    re .214
    
    The driver of the car pays, not DEC. DEC pays a fixed amount per mile,
    which just about covers the fuel cost for a 2CV (provided you drive it
    carefully).
    
    That is why the fuel consumption matters (to the driver) for business
    miles as well as private miles.
    
    Andrew

    
    Cheers Andrew,
                  that clears up that little mystery for us non car lease
     scheme people.Sounds like a bit of a raw deal to me.
     But enough of that..this is supposed to be for Frontera notes after
    all which leads me to my question of the week.
    
    Is anybody who has a Frontera with the steel rims noticed any severe
    rusting of the rims.The rims on my Sport are quite bad concidering
    the cars only over a year old. I did hear a while back that there 
    had been problems with the wheels rusting.
    
    
    Richard

    All right. I have to admit that for the last year I've been going to
    the toilet on the wheels of a frontera in the car park. Added to that I
    have a salt deficiency which I've been taking extra salt for. All in
    all this has probably contributed to the degradation in wheel
    appearance. But, since most of the time your  wheels should be covered
    in mud then I wouldn't have thought that a wee bit of rust would be a
    problem.:-)...... 

    
    ...and I thought that smell was the catalytic converter !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    ;-)

    
    Richard,
          it's due to the abrasive action of the stones against the 
    paint. So either
     i) go and get some alloy wheels
         or
    ii) have the wheels shot blasted and refinished with a resin based
        paint.
    
    
    Alan
    

    
    Alan,
    
         I think you'll have to have a rethink about the reason for the 
     rusty wheels.I have just spoken to a work mate who had the same
    problem with his Frontera lwb.He was told by his dealer that there
    had been a manufacturing problem early on with the steel wheels (to do
    with the welds I believe) and he is now waiting on delivery of 5 new
    wheels(under warranty).
     
    
                           Richard

    Just spoken to my local dealer to book a service and when he asked if
    there was any other problems I thought about the crap RDS reception and
    asked if Vauxhall had acknowledged it, to my amazement he replyed that
    there is a modifyed arial , BUT he had only managed mto obtain 2 so far
    but by the end of the month they should be on general release not
    special order only.
    
    Regards Martin

    
    ... thanks Martin ! you've just givem ne some more ammo' in my fight
    for decent reception....
    
    BTW, I've now been told that there is nothing wrong with the volume
    compensation thing my Radio - however there is nothing to connect it to
    on a Frontera Sport !!! something that perhaps they should mention
    *before* they let you order one don't you think ??
    
    Graham 

    
    Re RDS
    
    Martin, which Dealer is this ? I've spoken to Grimshaws (Manchester)
    who don't know anything about the modified arel, but would like to know
    more. I've now booked it in to PLP (Warrington) who also don't know of
    a mod but are willing to check it out.
    
    Incidentally, a contact at PLP got me to check with Grimshaws (who
    orignally supplied the vehicle) to see if the Radio was fitted by them
    or Factory fitted - in case they'd left something out -it seems the bit
    that the volume compensation thing connects to costs a few hundred quid
    !! Grimshaws say it was fitted at the factory, so I'll try to get PLP
    to push back on Vauxhall for a solution - none of the brochures say it
    won't work in a Sport, and one of the reasons it costs more than the
    standard one is due to this feature....
    
    watch this space.....
    
    graham

    
    Graham,
    
    My local dealer is Lisles near Knebworth In Hertfordshire TEl 0438
    811011, give them a ring and see if they tell you the same thing ,
    after all it could always be a story to get me off they're back BUT
    only for a couple of weeks!!!!
    
    
    Martin

    
    ....Booked the Frontera Sport in at PLP for tomorrow, they're going to
    try and fix the ariel problem, and also look at the headlamp washers -
    I checked them this w/e and found they don't work and I'm not sure
    they've ever worked !
    
    Graham

    The same happened to me graham , someone said the washers did'nt work
    and when I checked mine , they didn't work either. Had to wait a week
    for a new motor.
    
    
    
    Regards Martin

    
    Had a look at the new softtop sport at my local dealers....thought it
    was a bit steep at  15,560 pounds.Looked very nice all the same.
    
    
    Richard

    
    
    no it comes with alloys..
    
    
     :-)

    Does this one come with rusty whels as an option too. Although if its a
    convertible i supose it will never be out in the rain!.......
    			brian

    
    ...just got the Frontera Sport back. Headlamp washers are fixed -
    apparently when the Front grill was fitted a wire or pipe was trapped
    so they've almost certainly never worked. The Radio and aerial have been
    checked out again, they use some sort of diagnostics routine which
    indicated a fault with the Radio NOT the aerial ! So, a new Radio is on
    order, which should solve the problem....
                                    
    They did check out the replacement aerial with Vauxhall though,
    apparently there is no aerial modification available, so they were
    advised to contact Tech Services (whoever they are)
    
    Graham
    

    Wadham Kenning indicated to me yesterday when I was complaining about
    the radio reception that Vauxhall do accept there's a problem and a new
    aerial is expected soon. However, as soon as he'd said that, he did a
    lovely job of back-tracking ... well. there *may* be ... they are
    working on a fix ... etc. It's amazing the lengths manufacturers will
    go to to avoid admitting a design fault and how protective their
    dealers will be!
    
    Oops. I used 'complaining' back there. Non-PC. I should say 'when I was
    offering them the opportunity to delight me'.....
    
    Mike

The saga continues... (re: .201)

The garage couldn't find the cause of the oil pressure taking a long time to come
up when starting from cold. They said they compared it with other Fronteras they
had and they didn't think it was too different from them, although I can't be
sure they were using other Sports and not Estates or Diesels ;-)

Anyway, they said that they would give Vauxhall Technical a call to see if it
was a known problem. It appears that Vauxhall havn't seen this problem before, so
the garage have invited me to go along and compare mine with some others they
have there.

In the meantime, I need to get some info on other Sports. Could some of you kind
Sport owners make a note of the time it takes for the oil light to go out/
presure gauge to go up, when it's first started from being left overnight. You 
can mail me or reply here.

I'm a bit worried what this is doing to the rest of the engine if mine does
have a problem.

Thanks in advance, as they say

Bill

    Hi Bill,
    	I have noted the time it takes for my oil pressure light to go out
    after a night parked out on my street in  "Sunny Aberdeen" and it
    always takes betwwn 3-4 seconds.
    
    Hope this helps you 
    
    Malcolm

    
    Does any one know if there's a Frontera Owners Club ????
    As the marque is the second biggest selling 4wd I would have thought
    a club would have been started up by now.
    
    
    Richard

Re: .232

My Frontera takes about 30 seconds for the oil light to go out (which
exactly coincides with the oil pressure gauge registering) when starting
from cold and not pressing the throttle.

I have done nearly 7000 miles, and not yet had a service!

mb

    
    Martin,
    
    I've checked mine - it takes 4 or 5 seconds , then the gauge registers
    and light goes out.
    
    Have you got any oil in your's ?? %;)
    
    
    Graham

Martin

30 seconds!!!!!!

sounds like you need a new oil pump as well ;-)

Bill

    4 seconds for mine too.

    
    It takes about 3 seconds for the oil pressure to rise on my Sport.
    
    
    
       Richard

    
    Right, here's whats happened so far :-
    
    o firstly complained of bad reception, RDS searching continually etc.
      I suggested the aeriel might be crap and booked it in..
    
    -- Grimshaws inspected it, tightened the base mount of the aeriel and
       said it was fixed.
    
    o It wasn't ! (surprise, surprise), So next it went to PLP, I specifically
    asked about a replacement aeriel, they followed it up with GM technical
    who said there wasn't one...
    
    -- PLP had a look at it anyway, couldn't find a fault with the aeriel
       but did find one on the Stereo - a replacement was ordered and
       fitted...
    
    o still no better, back to PLP.
    
    -- still no joy with modified aeriel, but ordered and fitted a
       replacement anyway.
    
    o By their own admission, reception was still crap so they booked it
      back in, and arranged for a specialist (don't know if GM or not yet)
      to come and look at it.
    
    -- that was today, I've had a call from PLP to say it's fixed it's had
       a new ???Booster aeriel fitted??? and even from a couple of miles
       drive they can hear the difference!!
    
    
    o The vehicle has just been returned and guess what....
    
    
    ...it's got a new Aeriel - not one of those rubbery floppy ones that
    appear to cause all the problems, but something that looks like it's
    made of Carbon fibre - very slim, but with a larger base.
    
    just switching it on in the Car Park I could tell the difference !!
    
    Question is though, Is this the new 'modified aeriel' which doesn't
    exist, or have they paid a specialist firm to sort out my specific
    problem ??
    
    I'll find out this week and report, but at least it seems there is a
    solution - just bring all your Frontera's to Warrington, book them in
    at PLP and smile nicely.....
    
    Graham %^)
    
    BTW, the headlamp Washers have failed again %^/
    
    (but it's only a loose connector...)

    Further to the new aerial, Wadham Kenning in Reading now admit that GM
    have a replacement to fix this problem. When mine's fitted (it's on
    order) I'll let you know if it's the same as Graham's in -.1
    
    Mike

    
    ... I've been asked *not* to tell anyone what the fix is yet - until
    I'm entirely satisfied with the reception - so I'll give it a few more
    days testing yet.....
    
    it seems they don't want everyone clamouring for a specific fix if it
    doesn't cure the problem 100%, which I suppose is fair enough. PLP have
    been straight enough with me so far, so I'll do as they ask for now.
    
    Graham(Happy_to_have_noticed_an_improvement) 

    Graham,
    
    Could'nt you let me have a clue, I've been driving around since august
    without being able to listen to the radio properly (ah) and have been
    fed all the same crap about lose base plates/we fixed it now sir/theres
    nothing we can do/we have a modified arial/no we don't/yes we do, but
    we can't get one.
    	I phoned the garage the other day and was told they had only
    managed to get hold of one modified arial in 6 months and I would
    have to wait until they become available, The I thought I'd get more
    joy talking to customer services in Luton. The man was very nice and
    gave me a reference number for my call and said he had'nt heard of any
    problems with RDS Reception but would look into. Five days later ,
    NOTHING, so I spoke to him again yesterday and gave me some excuse
    that the technical dept don't read they're e-mail as often as they
    should.
    	So i'm no closer to knowing what the fix is, so come on Graham
    give me some ammo that i can let my local dealer have with both bores!!
    
    Regards Martin

    
    Martin, I was going to ring the Garage on Monday and tell them it is
    loads better - assuming it works okay all weekend of course %^)
    
    ...but as I imagine it will anyway, here's what they've done :-
    
    
    	fitted an aeriel from a Corsa !!
    
    apparently, the best aeriel to fit would be from a Calibra, but that
    has the rear screen washer built in as well, and would require a lot of
    modification. The Corsa aeriel is supposed to be the next best -
    amplifier in the base etc - and seems to be a reasonably straight
    forward swap, although I think they may have trimmed some plastic off
    the mount to get the angle right.
    
    Anyway, it works most of the time now, I live in quite a hilly area and
    the few times it fades out and starts searching are probably due to the
    hills. 
    
    BTW, it also looks a bit more like an aeriel, and definitely gives a
    stronger signal... if only they'd take this to it's logical conclusion
    and start fitting 4ft telescopic aeriels %^)
    
    Graham

    
    Took the Sport into the local dealers to let them have a look at the 
    rusty wheels...lo and behold the service manager produces a technical
    bulletin refering to the wheels....there was a recall on the steel 
    wheels but I hadn't been informed.
     A new set of steel wheels have been duly ordered...under warranty.
    
    Richard

    OK      I promise not to go to the toilet in the car park anymore......
    Well if I do I'll use a crappy gold colored Renault 11 that has
    appeared recently. What about your rear end problems?........

    
    is that the one that is usually parked next to an old crappy sh*ty
    coloured triumph spitfire( ho ho )?????
    
    Q: WHAT DO YOU CALL A SPITFIRE WITH THE ROOF DOWN ??
    A: A SKIP
    
    

    
    Im have just read in a 4x4 mag that Vauxhall are to offer leather trim
    as an option on all Frontera's...at a cool 990 pounds
    
    
    Richard

    N.B. This is available in two ways -
    1) Factory-fitted option on new vehicles
    2) Retrofit on vehicles already on the road!!!!
    
    	Ian

     
    I read in the same mag that theres to be another special edition model
    with a new style of alloy wheels and a colour coordinated nudgebar
    and it will only come in one colour(green I think )
    can't remeber the name of this latest edition.
    
    Richard

    After many phone calls I'vce eventually got the Corsa ariel fitted
    to the Frontera. Reception is ten times better without any fading etc,
    although if RDS is turned on it still tends to go off seeking as soon
    as I pull away, But what the hell at least I can hear the thing now!!
    
    
    Regards Martin

    
    Had to take my Frontera Sport into the dealers to investigate a rubbing
    noise coming from the rear wheels/axle/diff.
    After inspection I was informed that a new rear axle/diff assy would
    have to be ordered and fitted.
     My car has only done 14,000 miles from new so this came as a bit of a
    shock..but it was replaced under warranty by vauxhall.
     Apparently there was a problem with a batch of rear diffs and the
    quickest fix is to change the whole rear axle assy.
    
    
     Richard

    
    Richard,
    
    	was this the Limited Slip variety, or a standard one ??
    
    Graham
    

    
    it was only the standard rear diff...I wasn't sure about getting the
    lsd when I ordered the car.
    Anyway,the symptom started off by sounding like metal rubbing on metal
    (as if a brake lining was worn down)..and this progressed to a rattling
    and occasionally a loud clunk.
    
    
      Richard

    
    Ta Richard,
    
    ...just wondered if it was something I should be listening out for.
    
    
    Graham

    
    The new Frontera Sport convertible gets a good write up in Augusts
    issue of OFF-ROAD AND 4WHEEL DRIVE magazine.It came equal top along
    with a jeep wrangler.
    
    
     Richard

    
    re -1
      Richard, 
           in the 'list' where does the Land~Rover 90sv and MPi come......
    
    
    regards 
    Alan.

Apart from the soft hood at the back, is it any different
to the hard top?

    
    From what I know,its just the same as the normal sport and in reply
    to .258 I can only guess the slighty agricultural "landy" was not
    included as the magazine did not consider it "a fashion accessory"
    
    
    only joking
    
    Richard
    :-)

    
    Had to take the Frontera back to the dealers as the off side front
    tyre had severe wear on the outside...only since the new
    wheels(warranty job) were fitted.The wear was also accompanied by
    bad vibration felt through the steering wheel and pulling to the left.
    the dealer checked the wheels were balanced and also checked the wheel
    alignment and "trim height" ? as apparently on the Frontera the ride
    height is adjustable !!!
    result of all this.....the car still pulls to the left!!!!!!
    looks like another visit is on the cards.
    
     anybody have any ideas...tyres don't come cheap.
    
    
    Richard

>     anybody have any ideas...tyres don't come cheap.

They sure ain't.

When i has a puncture plugged the other week, the garage gave me a
ball-park figure of �300 for each of the 255 width tyres - phew!

My front tyres are wearing, or rather scrubbing, on the outside
edge, but i guess that is due to body roll as i tend to corner
somewhat enthusiastically. I haven't has any problems with the
vehicle pulling to one side though.

Do you occasionally (monthly) engage 4WD to ensure that the front
differential remains free running?

mb

My front tyres are also wearing on the outside edge, so I thought I had better
get the tracking checked, after 26k miles with no intervention. Only cost 20
quid at Meritye in Andover. Also got a quote for new Dunlops: 80 quid + VAT.

Bill

    
    yes I occasionally engage the front hubs( maybe every couple of weeks)
    just to keep them lubed.If the problem was just tyre scrub due to the
    power steering I would have expected both front tyres to get the same
    amout of wear.
    in reply to the last entry the bill for the tracking and to have the 
    ride height adjusted was 18 pounds plus vat so I guess garage rates
    are comparable.
    
    Richard

Well i had some fun coming in this morning, and i am sure that i will
have some more fun later today.

I was proceeding in a southerly direction down the A446, reaching the
traffic lights at the end of the dual carriageway just past the M42
when i heard a two-tone klaxon under the blare of my stereo. I looked
around for blue lights and alternately flashing headlamps, but none
were to be found. Turning down my stereo i realised that the klaxon
was actually my car alarm going off - but louder than had ever heard
it before!

The LED on the "highly advanced computerised alarm system console" was
glowing red, and the alarm was sounding, but my indicators were not
flashing and the ignition had not cut out.

Well it was 7:15am and pouring with rain, so i just kept the hammer
down and headed for the office (passing Colehill Police station as
quickly as i could so as not to be noticed). It's amazing how cars
in front get out of your way when your siren is going 8-).

At the office i tried to turn off the alarm, the ignition and i would
have disconnected the battery if i had a spanner, but then the alarm
stopped of its own accord. Phew!

Then it started again, this time with the indicators flashing. A minute
or two later it stopped again, and it has remained this was until now.

It is strange that the alarm was VERY LOUD, almost to the point of hurting
my ears, and yet previously (in the 6 months that i have had the Sport)
it has always been a very feeble sound. It seems to me that something
may well be adrift!

I'll let you know how things go later on today when (if) i get the thing
to a garage.

mb

    Hiya Martin, a story that might help:
    
    	When my mother acquired her new Metro GTi, it was deemed necessary
    to get an alarm on the quickish side, so we phoned a local alarm
    fitting place who came over, had a look, priced one up and, a few days
    later, fitted an alarm.
    	The guy who fitted it must have been new or else completely inept,
    because he fitted the alarm right under one of the bonnet air scoops.
    Whenever the car was left out in the rain, water peed all over (and
    into) the alarm. The problem manifested itself with small, crackly
    chirps from the alarm (a sort of fusing-out sound, which is hardly
    surprising really!). Eventually it would go completely nutty and the
    whole caboodle would go off, standing still or not.
    	Sounds similar, Martin, me thinks!
    
    Dan
    
    (P.S. Don't worry about Coleshill police station. The number of times
    I've been sideways round that island right in front of them.......;-D )
    

    Oh, sorry, forgot to mention.... when the guy came to refit a new
    alarm and forgot half the bits, you won't be surprised to hear we told
    him where to go, got out money back and went to a specialist in Cobra
    alarms and had one of those fitted! At least it's in a far more logical
    place, now.
    
    Dan

Well,

i just got back from the 452 Motor Company in Castle Bromwich, where
they fitted a brand new alarm under warranty at 2 minutes notice.

Well done to them!

mb

    So it was directly linked to the rain, then?
    
    Dan
    
    P.S. I take it this is a standard Vauxhall alarm or something?

The garage just said that the old unit was faulty.

To be honest, the rain wasn't particularly bad, and if a few drops
falling can short out an alarm, i dread to think how the "van" would
cope in 2 feet of water!

It is a standard alarm (no ultrasonics), but by the way that Vauxhall
go on about it in the manual you would think that it was used in the
space shuttle. The bit that you can see is a 3 position rocker switch
next to the radio for Sensor-Off/On/Off, where Sensor-Off is so that
you can disable the ultrasonics (of fitted) to leave the windows and
roof open. Off means Off, and On means that with the key out of the
ignition and the door closed then the alarm enables in 20 seconds -
a right pain at petrol stations. Hell, even Benneton couldn't fill
the tank in that time 8-).

mb

    
    just read september's issue of off-road and 4wd.There was an article
    about a bloke who had an eight month old Sport and the rear axle
    had to be replaced due to the pinion being at fault.This fault sounds
    very similar to the fault I had on my Sport.
     Apparently this"known" fault does not appear on the estate versions.
    I thought the rear axles would have been the same for both models !!
    
    
    Richard

Having just returned from towing a caravan through France with a week old
Frontera LWB Diesel, the previous replies were of great interest.

First, mine did not come with an Vauxhall alarm, but had been ordered with
a VSL alarm which was fitted on the office carpark.  It worked for three
days then on the morning of our trip to France it packed up at 7.00 on the
Saturday morning.  The alarm had disabled the starter and then died.  VSL 
were still in bed so a call to the AA had a man round in about 45 minutes
who spent about an hour putting back together the wires that VSL had cut.
End result - no alarm but an excellent holiday in France.

Second, soon after I got the car I, actually the wife, noticed that the
steering wheel was not straight.  OK I know its round, but you know what
I mean.  Anyway I now think maybe the steering itself is a fault because
it does seem to want to turn right all the time.

Thirdly, a long list of minor things need sorting like, weak handbrake,
Hazard warning light switch broken, side indicator repeater falling out and
the gear knob is loose.

On the positive side it towed my caravan a dream, returning about 27 mpg
over 2300 miles, on cheap french diesel.

David

    Mine's only a couple of weeks old and has similar problems, handbrake,
    steering wheel, gear knob.
    
    It also occasionally smells really 'exhausty', but only very
    occasionally. The garage blamed 'wax on the exhaust' :-) and then
    the old favourite of 'unleaded bad egg smell'. But it's a diesel !
    After a minute or two it can be quite suffocating.
    
    One other problem is a very low oil pressure when idling, like
    just above the red line.
    
    Still, I like it's presence on the road. People certainly seem to
    get out of the way :-).
    
    Ian.

Well thats two mysteries solved. The reason the hazard warning lights were
not working was because the VSL fitter had taken a feed off them to power
the alarm.  The alarm had taken too much power and blown the fuse !!

Apparently the fitter doesn't work for VSL any more, say no more.

David

    
    You say you pulled a caravan round france and it pulls a dream and
    returned 27mpg can you please expand on this a bit, how heavy is the
    van what sort of roads were you using, how fast, how does it fair on
    hills, what were you pulling it with before to compare against etc. I
    am very interested in how these tow.
    
    Richard

Richard,

My previous towcar was a Cavalier SRi (the old 8 valve) and was fine for towing
until the road got wet and uphill when it became very easy to loose traction.
Towing off a rally field sometimes required assistance, but some of the rallies
I've been on even the 4x4s required assistance !!

The van is a Swift Challenger 495 which I seem to remember has an all-up weight
of 21 cwt.

The journey was from Manchester to Annecy via Ramsgate, Paris and Dijon.  The 
journey down was all on N roads, we try to avoid the autoroutes, hence speeds 
were in the 50/60 mph. It did tend to slow down quite a bit up the really big
long hills, but much of the time on the N roads it was perfectly happy in 5th.

On the journey back we did use about 300 miles of Payage autoroute and at times
were overtaking lorries at about 75 mph.  This was with a fair quantity of 
duty-free distributed mostly in the back of the Frontera but some in the van.
I have a Bulldog stabalizer fitted which is probably not so important now with
the Frontera, but old habits die hard.  One point to remember, which I forgot 
about, was that the rear tyre pressures have to be increased from 25 to 35 psi 
otherwise the back does tend to sink quite a bit.

Regards,
	David

    
    David,
    
    Thanks for that bit of info.
    
    Richard

    
    my (or is Hertz's ?) Frontera Sport has now done 22k miles.
    
     I've been very happy with it so far, a few minor glitches like the
    fuel pump failure, rear seat hinge covers cracking, and the aeriel saga
    haven't spoiled the fun !
    
    yesterday it went in to PLP in Warrington - to have a a few  other
    minor irritations fixed...
    
    o a rather annoying metal-on-metal type squeak from the front o/s
      suspension - this is loud enough to be heard inside my house when I
    pull up outside !
    
    o a slight knock/play in the steering column which I thoughjt may be
      a bush.
    
    o the two plastic clips which locate the perspex 'chip protector' at
      either end have broken (probably due to vibration and being removed
      every couple of weeks for cleaning) and need replacing.
    
    
    Andy from PLP called me earlier today to say they've cured the squeak
    by slackening and re-adjusting the front suspension and bull-bar
    mountings - they're not sure where it was coming from but it's now
    stopped !!
    
    The steering column problem does seem to be a worn bush, that will be
    replaced tomorrow morning.
    
    and finally, the little plastic clips for the bonnet protector can't be
    ordered as a seperate part, you have to have the whole thing ! (33
    quid plus vat) and surprise, surprise Hertz won't pay for it - whether
    it's a clip or the whole thing.... 
    
    Andy reckons I can get it under warranty if I get the original Invoice
    details from Hertz, and he'll also find out why I can't just order a
    new  clip - these things are going to break one day, they have to be
    taken off everytime the vehicle is washed and they take quite a
    hammering with the wind buffeting om the motorway - or find an address
    for me to complain to.
    
    anyway, as always PLP have been very helpful, coutesy car and all and
    I'll have my Frontera back tomorrow lunch time.
    
    BTW, I forgot to tell them about another problem with the radio (SC804)....
    
    If you tune in to a station which has Traffic Boradcasts available ( a
    TP symbol appears in the display) and you switch TP on (so you get [TP] on
    the display), everything works as expected - Radio and Cassette are
    interrupted by Traffic Broadcasts.... however, if  you then switch off the
    TP function (so the [] disappear) it doesn't take a blind bit of notice and
    continues to interrupt both Radio and Cassette with Traffic Boradcasts !!!
     The only solution to this seems to be to switch off TP, then switch the
    unit off, and back on....
    
    Has anyone else noticed this 'un-documented feature' or am I doing
    something wrong ??
                   

Re: .278

>    Has anyone else noticed this 'un-documented feature' or am I doing
>    something wrong ??

It sounds like something is wrong with your radio!

I can "disable" TP interruptions by just pressing the button (without
switching it off and on again). This is useful in areas of poor
reception, when failed attempts to latch on to a traffic flash cause
dropouts on the station that you are listening to.

i would get your radio checked out again.

mb

    
    ...a new Radio was fitted on Tuesday, first thing I noticed was that it
    emits a 'chirp' sort of noise when I start the engine (the previous one
    just out, and came back on again), secondly it has exactly the same
    'undocumented feature' as the previous one - you can't switch 'TP' off
    without switching off the set !! and thirdly the reception is much
    worse than with the prevoius one, although Iit's possibly down to
    weather conditions so I'll give it a few more days before I ask for
    another replacement...
    
    Graham
    
    Btw, the squeaking in the front suspension has returned %^/

    
    ....nearly forgot; the problem with the steering column which I (and
    the garage) thought was a worn bush, required a new column !
    
    Graham

    
    PLP have had my Sport back to check out the Radio again... they've now
    ordered another new one ! - the one they fitted a couple of weeks ago had
    the same fault with the TP function as the previous one, and they agree
    there's also a problem with reception on it.
    
    Also, they've checked out the squeaky suspension again and have been
    able to pin-point the problem - the front nudge-bar mountings ! -
    they're now going to order another nudge-bar under warranty, as it may
    have been distorted when it was first fitted, they're also trying to
    get another bonnet-protector under warranty.
    
    I've written to Vauxhall After Sales service about the bonnet-protector 
    clips and the lack of 'volume-compensation' on the radio, so fingures
    crossed I might get a result.
    
    
    Graham

    
     Well on the third visy to the local vaxhall dealer they finally
    managed to cure ther problem of the car pulling to one side.
    All they had to do was make sure the tyre treads were the right way
    round......so watch out if you are having tyres or wheels replaced at
    any time
    
    
    Richard

Some tyres are indeed unidirectional!

The old Michelin XASs had to be fitted the "opposite way" on opposite sides of
the cars.

Also, I had on my Hillman Imp, problems with cross ply tyres (well, it was
1966!) pulling to one side which was fixed by removing and replacing the tyre
the other way around.

				Malcolm.

Sorry,

	I meant specifically on the Frontera!

My previous car (MR2) had unidirectionals, which meant a different
tyre for each corner.

I'll take a look at my Frontera Sport tyres later.

mb

    
    thanx for the previous reply to back me up.If it is the goodyear tyres
    then it certainly looks like the tread only runs "one way" I'm not sure
    about the bigger fatter tyres used with the alloy wheels.
    Being new to the world of 4wd I didn't know about these things,but then
    you live and learn (or get bull sh*tted)
    
    Richard

    
    'scuse my ignorance......I must be loosing it.....its not goodyears,its
     dunlops( I think )
    
    
      ...I'll just go and check..........
    
    Richard

	I would guess that they are Dunlops since the Japanese own Dunlop and
they don't buy anything that isn't Japanese if they can avoid it - that is why
you cannot buy Chrome cassettes made in Japan 'cos BASF and Du Pont own all the
patents!
				Malcolm.

    
    
    I don't know if Dunlops are original eqiuipment on the isuzu version
    of the Frontera but I'll take your word for it.
    I was thinking of fitting an electric fan to mine(purely to cut down
    on the noise level of course)..has anybody had any experience of
    fitting an after market electric fan.
    
    
    Richard @ SQF

    Hello out there?,
    		     can anyone please give me some realistic fuel
    consuption guides for the 2.3TD, in laymans terms please ie: around
    town and on a run etc?, (no exagerations now?). My driver manual says
    there is not much difference between the 2.3TD and the 2.4i, on the
    otherhand I have conflicting info from 2.3TD drivers that they get
    approx 40+ on a run??. Any info on this would be appreciated?.
    
    Regards
    	    Colin.

	If no one else answers this, tomorrow, I'll bring in the current copy of
Diesel Car, that has the figures for most current and recent Diesel cars etc.

				Malcolm.

    
    	The Diesel Car magazine gives the Frontera Estate TD fuel
    consumption as 28.8 MPG, being worked out from the government figures
    as follows:
    
    2 x urban figure + 1 x constant 56 MPH figure + 1 x constant 75 MPH
    figure.
    
    	By the same magazine;
    
    	Land Rover Discovery Tdi		34.2 MPG
    	Ford Maverick				26.0 MPG
    	Isuzu Trooper 3.1 TD			25.0 MPG
    	Mitsubishi Shogun 2500 TD 5-door	23.0 MPG
    
    				Malcolm.
    

    
    errr, haven't we been through this one before ? for some reason the
    fuel consumption figures for Fronteras were based on being in 4wd mode
    - something which you can't do for very long on tarmac, as it knackers
    the drivetrain - I'm still managing 26+ out of my Frontera Sport, which
    considering it's driven pretty hard isn't too bad.
    
    Graham
    

    
    Sorry Malcolm, I didn't mean to ipmly they were wrong, just that for
    some reason the consumption figures for 4wd vehicles are usually quoted
    in 4wd mode - vehicles having permanent 4wd obviously have no problem
    with this, non-permanent but with a front diff and front/rear diff
    presumably don't get affected too much either, but those like the
    Frontera where drive to both front wheels is constant and with no diff
    between front & rear will suffer becuase of the drag this causes...
    
    ....not that the shape helps much either, I suppose %^) 
    
    
    Graham

    
     I thought that was why part time 4wd vehicles had freewheeling hubs on
     the front axle,so that the drag of the drivetrain in reduced.
    
     btw: in this months OFFROAD AND 4WD magazine there is an article
    stating that vauxhall will soon be fitting the Isuzu 2.8 ltr diesel
    and the Vauxhall 3 ltr v6 engine into the frontera range....probably
    by early 95.
    
     Richard 

    
    Richard, that's my point they have free-wheeling hubs to reduce drag
    from the drive-train, but when 4wd is selected the hubs aren't
    freewheeling (for obvious reasons), so if the test is done in 4wd mode
    there's loads of drag - and if it was done on a real road (as oppose to
    a govt. lab rolling type thing) with corners and bumps etc it would soon
    damage the transmission, because there is no diff to compensate for the
    speed variances between left/right front wheels and front/back wheels
    during corning.
    
    Graham

    
    
    Are you sure that the front axle doesn't have a diff ??? I was led to
    believe that it was only a centre diff that the Frontera doesn't have.
    
    Richard

    
    ....The Frontera definitely doesn't have a diff between the front
    wheels, which is why you mustn't drive them in 4wd in 'normal'
    conditions - this is also apparent off-road when corning as they have a
    tendency to not want to turn under power (both wheels turning at the
    same rate you see) - as it *will* damage the transmission...
    
    Graham

    
    I'm a bit confused here.If theres no front diff how is the drive put
    to the front wheels ??
    
    
    Richard

    
    As I see it, when you engage 4wd it connects drive to the front wheels
    via a transfer box, this drives both front wheels equally (ie. no diff)
    at the same rate as the rear wheels which are seperated by a diff
    (preferably Limited Slip). The bit I dont really understand is what
    happens when the front hubs are locked *but* you haven't engaged 4wd ?
    Various sources talk about 'diff wind-up' and how to stop it happening,
    but if there's no diff then what's it winding up and how can it go around
    corners ? I can olny assume that ther is a diff, but that it's
    effectively locked when 4wd is engaged....
    
    I'll try to find out more this w/e, from a couple of people who
    *should* know.
    
    Graham
    
    BTW, on the off-road course the instructor mentioned that the LSD was
    essential for off-roading, and that I was one of only 1% or so of
    owners/drivers who'd specified the 'manual-locking' front hubs,
    something else which he considered advantageous if you were serious
    about driving off-road. 
    

    Here's my understanding :-
    
    Rear wheels have normal diff.
    Front wheels have no diff, and free wheeling hubs.
    Transfer box in centre sends drive to either rear wheels only, or front
    & rear.
    
    RWD - normall diff operates, no wind up.
    	- with FWH operating, front wheels turn at different rates as they
    are not 'connected' to any driveshafts. The driveshafts may turn
    slightly, but no damage will be done.
    	- with FWH _not_ operating. Front wheels, although without drive,
    will turn at the same speed since they are connected via the
    driveshafts. Since there is no diff, this will probably undoubtedly
    cause tyre wear. There's no diff to 'wind up' but the situation will
    put stresses on any parts involved (ie. transfer box, driveshafts and
    whatever coupling they have instead of a diff).
    
    4WD - rear wheels as per usual.
    	- FWH operating. Pretty pointless, front wheels will have no drive
    even though the driveshafts are trying to turn them.
    	- FWH _not_operating. rear wheels as usual, but front wheels will
    now have 'direct' drive - they will turn no matter what. It is in this
    mode that driving on tarmac for long periods will causes excessive tyre
    wear and probably damage to the transmission. Use it only in mud / bad
    snow / off road / etc.
    
    This all presumes there is no centre diff either. I've no idea on the
    Frontera transmission but this is the impression I get.
    
    Does any of this help?
    Cheers,
    	Dan

    There are three places that you can have a diff with 4WD.
    
    There will be diffs on both the front and rear axles.  Normally these
    will mean that when turning the inner wheels can roll slower than the
    outer wheels.
    
    A third diff may be installed between the front and rear drives.  This
    allows the rear wheels to roll slower when turning.  If this isn't
    installed then when 4WD is engaged there is a tendency for wheels to
    slip when turning.  When installed this may be a limited slip diff
    which allows some differential spped, but doesn't let it become
    excessive.
    
    If the axle diffs can be locked then there will be wheel slip when you
    are turning, this will be largely eliminated if they are limited slip
    diffs.
    
    When it's engaged any limited slip diff has a tendency to 'wind up' or
    reach the limit of how much it can slip.  My only experience of this is
    with the transfer box LSD on a Land Rover.  When it winds up a warning
    light comes on.  All you do is reverse for a short distance and it all
    gets sorted out (unwound).
    
    If the front hubs are locked and it's not in 4WD then you will have
    some sort of wheel slip when turning.  If the limited slip is engaged
    on the front then you may suffer wind up from time to time.

>                                The bit I dont really understand is what
>    happens when the front hubs are locked *but* you haven't engaged 4wd ?
>    Various sources talk about 'diff wind-up' and how to stop it happening,
>    but if there's no diff then what's it winding up and how can it go around
>    corners ?
    
    By locking the hubs but not having 4wd engaged it just turns the half
    shafts and helps to keep things lubricated. Those of us with auto hubs
    are advised to engage 4wd drive a couple of yards then disengage 4wd.
    This leaves the hubs locks and lubes the front end transmisson until
    you next reverse.
    
    Only when conditions are slippy should 4wd be used so that the
    'inside' wheel can slip when going round corners. By driving on the
    road with 4wd the inside wheel cannot slip and so twists the half
    shafts etc. The inside wheel may even squeal as it trys to wheelspin on
    the tarmac.
    
    Ian.

The Frontera Sport DOES have a front differential!

If the freewheeling hubs are unlocked (i.e. freewheeling) then the
front wheels spin at the hub. If you never use 4WD then the front
differential isn't being used, and it can seize up because (as
.305 says) the lubricants doesn't circulate.

Thus drivers are encouraged to occasionally select 4WD to give
the front diff a good oiling. Just a few yards is enough, then
you stop and reselect 2WD. This is the time of year to do this,
because you don't want to find that the whole thing is jammed
the first time it snows!

In the Sport, 4WD is split 50/50 between front and rear, with
no centre differential. If you select 4WD on a hard non-slippery
surface (eg tarmac) then because there is always a slight difference
between front and rear wheel travel (due to cornering or even a
slight difference in wheel circumference) you get (as .304 says)
"transmision windup". In the Frontera, if you ignore the fact that
this is happening then eventually something will give (there is no
warning light!), and the bit that breaks is a small L-shaped metal
bracket (so i am told) which costs about 50p. Unfortunately to get
at this bracket the whole transmission has to be dismantled, which
required removing cross members and other bits - hence a few pence
part ends up costing a few hundred to replace!

Its amazing what you learn on the off-road driving course.

mb

    
     I don't see why its that important to have a lsd on the rear axle,
    if a wheel is spinning slight application of the hand brake soon sorts
    it out(handbrake not full on by the way)....and the only difference
    between auto locking and manual locking hubs is the fact that the auto
    hubs will unlock themselves if the vehicle is reversed(assuming its
    in 2wd)
    Auto hubs can be locked by selecting 4wd,drive forward until the hubs
    lock and then simply reselect 2wd(and don't reverse)
    
    
    Richard
    

    Use of handbrake to reduce rear wheel spin only works on some vehicles,
    not all.
    
    With certain versions of Land Rover the handbrake works on the final
    drive from the transfer box, just before the prop shaft.

    
    
       I agree and its frowned upon by some people...but it worked for
       me when I attended the Frontera off-road driving day.
    
     Richard

    
    I'd like to add that in the States the 4WD accident rate is very high
    in ice and snow for those vehicles which are not full time 4WD.  People
    tend to ignore the top speed warnings.  When you drive too fast with
    4WD engaged, more than one wheel can lose traction, reducing
    directional control.  During one 20 mile trip in ice and snow last
    Winter, I saw 5 vehicles which had crashed.  4 of the 5 were 4WD and
    two of those were upside down.
    
    Bob

    
    
      Can you really blame the vehicle in these situations.4wd vehicles
     are not really built to go fast...are they ???
    
    
    Richard

    I think -.2 raises an interesting point that drivers of 4wd vehicles
    may well feel over-confident when driving in adverse conditions,
    believing that the vehicle's capabilities to handle such conditions
    mean that they don't have to take as much care.
    
    Still, I'd rather be in a 4wd on snow and ice any day. I discovered
    this when I took my Frontera to Switzerland. Climbing icy mountain
    roads in 2wd gave me some nasty moments. The car had a rear lsd and
    this meant that rather than just one rear wheel spinning on the ice and
    the car standing still, BOTH rear wheels span and the car had a
    tendency to go sideways! Switching to 4wd made an unbelievable
    difference. The car pulled away up-hill with no spin from any wheel.
    Also, using low ratio made icy descents much more controllable! 
    
    This was my first introduction to using 4wd under these conditions,
    and I kept the speed down. I could well imagine,  however, becoming
    over-confident and blas� about exactly how dangerous these conditions
    really are.
    
    Tony I

re .310

I'm not really a 4WD user, although my father has got a Shogun and i've 
noticed a "kick" you get when trying to turn sharply in 4WD and I suppose 
that's the diff.

However .310 spoke about something that really puzzled me. I was in the 
States driving between Denver and Steamboat Ski resort on some of the worst 
Ice and Snow I've ever driven on, when a non-permanent 4WD came spinnig 
down the road towards me after trying to negotiate a fairly innocuous 
corner. He may have been going a little too fast (but no faster than me - 
which worried me), but I had thought they were designed for conditions like 
this!

Ref .310  - I think i have my answer!

Rupert

    
    Re .307
    
>>    .....and the only difference between auto locking and manual
>>    locking hubs is the fact that the auto hubs will unlock
>>    themselves if the vehicle is reversed(assuming its in 2wd)
    
    There is one big disadvantage with auto-locking hubs which accounts for
    serious off-roading types preferring the manual type. Imagine you're
    driving along happily in 2WD and suddenly come across some really sticky
    terrain (mud or what have you). Before you can put it into 4WD your
    vehicule gets stuck. Now you select 4WD ..... BUT ..... automatic hubs
    need a few meters of forward motion to lock them so......they won't lock.
    At this point you start wishing you had manual locking hubs, meanwhile
    the guy who has said hubs jumps down out of his truck (into 2 foot of
    slime 8-) and locks his hubs on the spot.
    
    Why has no-one come up with auto-hubs with a manual override??
    
    JBG
    
    

    A half-decent 'off-roader' walks the course BEFORE coming across
    suprises and would almost certainly engage 4WD when starting out.
    
    This is not to say that auto is better than manual but situations like
    .314 should not arise with a modicum of planning.
    
    Ian.

    
    ... the main problem I was told of with auto-hubs, is that they
    dis-engage themselves when you change direction from forwards to
    backwards or vice versa. So, you need to think quite carefully about
    when to select/deselect 4WD when driving off-road in confined areas,
    ie. if you back uo to get a better approach angle to hill, it'll
    probably disengage, and you may not have enough space in fronmt of you
    for it to rengage when you moove forwards again.
    
    Graham
    
    BTW, I *still* don't thikn there's a diff. at the front, but I haven't
    spoken to the guy to confirm this yet...

I thought that the auto-hubs only disengage when you change direction
whilst in 2WD, in other words, keep in 4WD and hubs stay locked.

mb

Oops, i was wrong!

Page 59 of the Vauxhall Frontera Drivers Manual says:

Note: When the vehicle is in 4H or 4L, hubs will temporarily free
and re-engage when vehicle changes direction.

>>>    Use of handbrake to reduce rear wheel spin only works on some vehicles,
>>>    not all.			  ^^^^


	And NOT at all on front wheel drive vehicles!

	Sorry, couldn't refuse that one.

	But there again, is that why the BX Hand Brake operates on the Front
Wheels?  (I do know the correct answer, before anyone tells me.)

				Malcolm.

    
    
      who cares about a BX...I'm only interested in info concerning
    Frontera's...at least now I know that the hubs will disengage even 
    when 4wd is selected.I have to admit I thought the hubs stayed locked
    and would only disengage if reversed when in 2wd.
    As for the auto vs manual hubs..I'm sure this debate is covered in the 
    4WD notes.
    The front hubs can still be engaged when only 2wd is require,this means
    that its only the drive shafts that are engaged when 4wd is selected...
    no need to drive a few feet or jump down into 2 feet of mud.
    I'm sure I explained that in one of my other notes entries.
    
    
    Richard 

    
    
     There is now an official Vauxhall 4wd owners club.Membership fees
     are 20 pounds per year...application forms can be obtained from
     any Vauxhall Dealer.
    
    
    
    Richard

I picked up a leaflet from my local Vauxhall garage.  It states that membership
is free for the first year and that if you have a company car then the pack is
sent to the company.  Now I wonder whether that is Digital or Leaseplan, I 
really must get round to checking that out.

By the way, I went on the one day training at Vauxhalls Wrexham centre.  The 
day was excellent, I was amazed what I, and the car, where capable of doing.
The centre is in an old slate quarry and had mud, hills, water in abundance.
My instructor for the day was a grey haired early 60 year old lady who is also 
a full time driving instructor.

There were however several little niggles about the day.  Firstly the brochure
suggested we would get to do some `green laning', in reality we never left the
quarry.  Secondly I would say that for the 80 pounds that it cost for me and 
others to take a friend or relative, Vauxhall could have included the price of
a lunch.

David

    
    I read in the paper the other day that Vauxhall was recalling up to
    18000 Frontera's because of a problem with the bonnet catch.Apparently
    there is the chance the bonnet could fly open !!!!!!!!!
    
    I'm still waiting for the letter to drop through the letterbox.....
    
    
    
    Richard

    
    Re :- bonnet catch..
    
    thanks for the warning, I'll call PLP straight after lunch and see what
    the score is. The idea of my bonnet coming off as I hurtle up the M6, is a
    little worrying to say the least.
    
    Graham

I saw this happen once - though not with a Frontera.

It was a few years back on an Italian motorway just south of Milan.  The 
bonnet on a white Fiat something-or-other that had just overtaken us flew 
open and smashed against the windscreen.

The car wobbled (I expect it made quite a bang!) and slowed down a bit 
(not too aerodynamic with the bonnet up :-) and as we drew level we could 
see the driver peering out of the bottom of the cracked windscreen 
underneath the bonnet.

Strangely, he didn't seem too perturbed and certainly made no effort to 
pull over and stop.  He was still driving bonnet-up as we lost sight of 
him.  Perhaps this happens a lot in Italy!

Mike


[Nearer Bologna, there was the driver that overtook us at (seemed like) 
100mph+ with mobile phone in one hand and gesticulating wildly (as 
Italians do:-) with the other ... but that's another story]

    
    Re bonnet catch :-
    
    I've just spoken to Andy at PLP in Warrington. My Frontera is being
    recalled, and so will yours be if the chassis no. is RV628664 or less
    - basically start of production 'til Sept/Oct 1993.
    
    The recall is to fit an uprated tension spring to the bonnet catch,
    which will only take a few minutes and can be done while you wait...
    
    Graham 

According to Top Tips in Viz magazine, Issue 70, Page 8, the bonnet
catch on the Frontera must be a feature ...

MOTORISTS. If your brakes fail whilst driving at speed release your
bonnet catch. The raised bonnet will provide vital wind resistance
and help slow down the vehicle. V.Ground, Hartlepool

8^)

    
    Has anybody had any problems with the catalytic converter on their
    Frontera's ? I had the one on my car replaced under warranty after
    it "collapsed".Lucky for me the 'cat' is gauranteed for 2 years...
    another week and it would have got me 185 quidlies.
    
    
                                      Richard

    
    see what happens when I try to talk and type.What it should have read
    was ..it would have cost me 185 quidlies......and apparently thats
    cheap for a 'cat'.
    
                                Richard

    Hi,
       my fronnie has had two cats on it (both warranty?), also two rads?.
    I have just got rid of mine, and I will not be shedding any tears,
    although I have never broken down (ie: on the roadside), the problems
    have been numerous????.
    Also to juicy for my liking, have taken delivery of my new cavalier
    17TD (very economic in comparison??).
    
    Colin.

    Colin,
    
      what were the symptoms when the CAT went ? The exhaust on my Frontera
    is getting a bit rattley - it hasn't bothered me too much, as it's
    usually drowned out by the combination of wind noise, road noise,
    squeaky front nudge bar and the stereo - and I'm wondering if it's the
    CAT that's gone. 
    
    Graham 
    

    
    A good clue is that when you tap the cat, it sounds like a tin box full
    of nails... At least, that's what the Calibra's sounded like when it
    went.
    
    Mark

    Graham,
    	   mine always had a tinny rattle, when the cat collapsed?.
    A previous note stated that cats are not very robust, so I say
    why put them on an offroader??. Also my fronnie used to dump
    the majority of coolant out, now and again?, the garage could
    not find a reason for this, (still not my problem now??).
    
    Quick update on my cavalier 17TD fuel consumption (I thought
    the fuel gauge was stuck on full??????????).
    
    Colin.

    
    
    Just got some PR stuff trough from Vauxhall about the launch of the
    '95'Frontera's( some bodies...new engines I think )...anyway,it is
    the offer to test drive the 'new' models both on and off road..and
    to try the Monterey out as well....refreshments available after the
    test session.....good thing is...its free !!!!!
    There are only a few test sessions at various site up and down the 
    country.
    
        Richard

    I'm in catch up mode on this topic....
    
    I've had 2 Fronteras, both of which have had rattley exhausts. The
    rattle was caused by a heat shield which is supposed to be held down by
    4 small bolts. The bolts come loose and the whole thing starts to
    rattle annoyingly, but it's not dangerous in the least (ie there's no
    danger of it actually falling off!). Crawling underneath (you don't
    even have to jack it up 8*)) with a 10mm spanner fixed it in 10
    minutes.
    
    I have heard other frontera estates with this problem, and I read that
    Vauxhall no longer fit the heat shield.
    
    FWIW, that's the only problem I've had with either car, so I guess like
    any mass-produced car some people get more problems than others.
    
    Tony I

    
    I've just been to the launch of the "revised" Frontera models.
    The afternoon started off with a short video (sales hype) which
    explained the new engineering changed to the Frontera range.A copy
    of the video was presented to each person attending at the end of
    the day.
     The main changes are two new engine choices..
    1) a 2.8 turbo diesel available in the estate and sport versions
    
    2) A new 2.2 ltr 16v petrol engine to replace the 2.4 petrol engine.
    
    Two other major changes are that the vehicles now have coil springs
    all round and have disk brakes front and rear.
    
    
     After the short video session we were invited to test drive the
    vehicles both on and off road.I chose to test drive the 2.8 Sport
    and have to admit it was on a par with the 2.0 sport but "a bit
    noisier".Ride on the road is smoother thanks to the new coils springs
    at the rear.I couldn't drive hard enough to test out the brakes(we were
    driving on twisty country lanes).
    The vehicles have a raised ground clearance thanks to new 16" rims.The 
    alloys that the test vehicles were sporting looked good.
    
    When we swopped to the off-road section another complete fleet of
    Frontera's were used..ones that were fitted with aggressive m/t tyres.
    I drove a 2.8 tubo diesel estate around the quite demanding course and
    this time the engine was very quiet but totally up to the job.
    Engine breaking on steep slopes was very good and the engine is so
    torquey that the vehicle was able to creep round most of the course
    at tickover.I was lucky enough to drive round the course twice as one
    of my group took cold feet and refused to drive round the course.
     Most off the 4WD schools were represented by one or more of their
    instructors....Ronnie Dale,Fresh Tracks,Lakeland 4X4 and Off-road
    Masters to name but a few.
    All in all there were 26 Frontera's and Monterey's available on the day
    although only the Frontera's were used for the off-road section.
    
    After the driving was over we all returned for an excellent 2 course
    hot meal before departing for home.
    An excellent day out....well done Vauxhall for putting on such a show.
    
    
    Richard

    re-1
    
    Do they have a redesigned dashboard?
    
    mikef

    
    unfortunately....no, but it now comes in any colour as long as its
    black !!!!!
    
    Personally I've got used to the dash layout and comparing it with
    the Monterey dash the Frontera one is quite practical
    
    
    Richard

    I may be interested in checking out the Sport turbo diesel.
    
    I like the Fronty Sport but have been put off by the horrendously high
    fuel consunption. Hopefully the TD would return around 30mpg ?
    
    Royston

    
    First the good news :-
     I finally got a *new* radio fitted last week - I've lost count of the
    'service replacement' ones I had - it fixed the [TP]/TP problem, I could
    switch the TP mode off and not get any more traffic Program interrupts.
    Although the new radio has the same model number (SC804) it is in fact a
    different model, this has a CD controller built in as well.
    
    The garage (PLP) also re-wired my headlamp washers - the wiring was trapped
    when Grimshaws fitted the Nudge bar before it was delivered - and the fuse
    doesn't keep blowing now, they're fitting a new pump later this week, just
    in case.
    
    A new front nudge bar is being fitted this week, to cure the squeak I'm
    getting from the original - apparently bent before it was fitted!
    
    The exhaust will also be looked at, as it's now rattles continually.
    
    The bad news:- my new radio stopped working on Saturday ! no power,
    nothing ... the fuse is okay, so back to PLP 
    
    Graham (resorting to Ghetto-Blaster on the passenger seat til Thursday)
    

    RE the 'new' Frontera Range.
    
    Is there a six/seven seat option available? If not, it looks like I'll
    have to go and have another look at the Ford Maverick.
    
    - John.
    

    
    Unfortunately the seating arrangements are still the same.All the
    changes are mechanical( well apart from the colour schemes)
    
    Richard
    
    ps:just fitted set of BF GOODRICH All-Terrains to the Sport..but I've
       still to try them out in the mud

    Why do Fronteras and most 4x4 vehicles I've seen have two sets of
    rear light clusters ? Usually one set is incorporated into the rear
    bumper.
    
    Royston

    
    Royston,
          It's so that those who use the sun visors (or wear caps) while
    driving can see the brake lights. The original light cluster (rear left
    and right panels) are obscured when a driver of a normal car cannot see
    above the lower half of their front window, hence a 2nd light cluster
    at a near normal heught..... :-)
    
    Al

    
    Royston, I've wondered about this too - I had thought of removing the
    lens etc to see if there is a proper fitting inside, if so I could then
    do a little rewiring and use the lights in the body instead...
    
    Of course, I'm not at all sure this would be legal %^)
    
    I've noticed other non-British off-roaders have a similar set-up, I
    wonder if it's to do with different lighting regulation in different
    countries ? Do ours have to be below a certain height ??
    
    Graham$Frontera_Sport_Keeper
    

    �I've wondered about this too - 
    
    I'm pleased I'm not the only saddo :-)
    
    I noticed the setup on the Terrano/Maverick is that the brake lights
    work on the high light clusters and the indicators work in the bumper
    clusters. Bizarre !
    
    Royston
    
    PS I notice that the small Frontera Sport sized Isuzu Trooper is now
       being badged by Vauxhall. Whats the story here ?

>    PS I notice that the small Frontera Sport sized Isuzu Trooper is now
>       being badged by Vauxhall. Whats the story here ?

there's been some ties between Vauxhall (GM?) and Isuzu for a while
now, perhaps they've bought them out?  Or reached an agreement where
they badge each other's vehicles according to the market they're sold
in...?

Speculating again!

Chris.

    
    The Fronteras _are_ re-worked/re-bodied Isuzu's, as I think is the
    Monterey. GM have a large stake in Isuzu (similar to Ford's stake in
    Mazda) so it makes sense - to them at least - to sell rebadged or
    cosmetically re-engineered vehicles in different countries.
    
    G.

The answer to the questions about the odd rear light arrangements on 4WD is:

They are invariably designed to have the lights on the rear pillars.  However,
as the rear doors are hinged on the right, this would mean that in the UK if you
had the rear door open at night, the spare wheel would obscure the offside
lights.  So, for the Uk, the various manufacturers place the tail lights in the
rear bumper, and juggle the rest around, or duplicate them.  If you check out a
continental spec 4WD, you'll see how the lights are meant to be.

Farrell.

>>> However, as the rear doors are hinged on the right...


Imagine a meeting room somewhere in Voxhull HQ:

Chairperson: We have a problem here, the lights are blocked by the rear door.

Engineer 1: Let's hinge the door on the left. 

Chairperson: Just can't get the staff. You're fired, dork!

Engineer 2: Let's design a new rear bumper, stick some lamps in it, and 
rewire the rear end. We can make the indicators in the bumper for the GL model,
the pillar for the L and both for the CD (except the 2.0 TD, it can be an 
option on that one, but only if the electric ashtray is ordered at the same
time). The reversing lamp will be in the bumper, but for the DL we'll have some
separate ones hanging below, with a fog lamp on the left pillar, or the right
pillar if the protective lamp grille is ordered. The bumper only needs to be
colour coded for the Sport, except yellow where the paint won't stick, so 
that's grey. We'll make the tail lights in the pillar a backup, in case the
bumper ones fail, and add an indicator lamp to the dash, which will flash every
wet Wednesday.

Chairperson: And the bulbs can be replaced every 9,000 miles, except the fogs
which will be at the dealer's discretion. Excellent!

--Chris

    
    all very well but, Unless you hinge the rear door at the top or bottom
    I don't see what difference it makes - the spare wheel will still
    obscure one set of rerar lights. Also, I think you'll find it's illegal
    to drive around with the rear door open, not to mention draughty !
    
    G.

Yes, but it currently obscures the offside set.  That's what the problem is as I
understand it.  Makes more sense if you compare continental and UK variantsof
the same car.  The tend to have indicators/tail lights etc on the pillars, and
fog lights in the bumpers, and it's reversed for the UK.

Farrell.

    
    Well what about the Ford/Nissan Maverick/Terano then ? the rear door on
    that is already back to front, so it must obscure the off-side lights
    in left-hand drive countries...
    
    g.

    Re: .349
    
    i followed a Landrover Discovery home last night, and that had pillar
    mounted rear lights, no bumper mounted ones, and yet the rear door was
    vertically hinged on the right hand side (and had a spare wheel).
    
    So how do they get away with it?
    
    mb

    Because they've spent a long time doing it, and can do it well?!
    
    Dan$solihull_patriot ;-)

    But not for long....	
    
    All post Apr 94 Discoveries have the indicators in the bumper.
    
    Rgds
    Chris (Discovery Owner)
    

    
    I'm sure this is more to do with the height of the lights, Coaches and
    Lorries have their rear lights mounted low-down as well. They can't be
    doing it by choice because if they were mounted higher up in the bodywork
    they'd be less likely to get damaged in minor bumps and scrapes - the
    sort bus drivers have all the time %^)
    
    G.

    
    Whats with the rear doors on LWB Frontera's? There seems to be two
    variants. One has a sideways opening rear door whereas the other has an
    up-and-over door. Is this an option? Also I nothe the sideways door on
    the LWB has hinges on the LHS (i.e. wrong side for the UK) whereas the
    sport has them on the Right. Is this another option?
    
    Richard
    
    PS. Usual question. Anyone got an update on fuel consumption. How about
    long motorway journey's doing about 80mph?
    
    

    Richard, 
    
    the bottom half of the door swings sideways, the top half (the galss
    bit) goes upwards. I've got a Sport at the moment, and I thought the
    door on the Estate opened on the same side - the offside.
    
    Graham.
    
    BTW, at 80mph you'll get around 25mpg from the Sport...
    

    
    Re doors. No, I checked again on a Sort and Estate in the DECpark car
    park today. The hinges are on opposite sides.
    
    Richard

    
    Yes, you're right; I followed one last night and noticed that too...
    
    The spare wheel holder does hinge to the other side though.
    
    Graham

    3000+ mile for my 2.2 16v estate and I'm averaging 24mpg. I don't split
    it for urban / motorway, but I've done a few long distances (90mph
    cruising). Average range 380 miles. 
    
    Interesting anomoly: the TV advert showed an estate wading at an angle
    and at one point the near side door mirror dips under the water. Yet in
    the manual is says that serious damage may occur if the maximum wading
    depth of 300mm is exceeded!
    
    Andy

    I think that the "serious damage" is caused by sucking water in via the
    air intake. In the advert, the upper offside part of the Frontera is out
    of the water, and that is where the intake is (i think).
    
    mb

    Yes, I believe you're right about the advert, still its a bit
    misleading isn't it !
    
    Andy

    
    Had a Frontera 2.8TDi Estate for the weekend. Great vehicle. Here's
    some views.
    
    Consumption. Filled her up to overflow, did 160 miles and refilled
    again. Distance covered included the following....
    
    Two or three trips across Reading (South to North) with all usual
    traffic. About 20-30 miles on country roads south of Reading.
    Maidenhead and back via M4 at about 75mph and then to Bristol (80
    miles) at between 80 and 90mph.
    
    Overall consumption was 25.3. I drove as I would my Mazda 626. I.e. no
    driving for economy. My conclusion is that you'd have to really abuse
    the vehicle to get less than 25mpg. With a soft foot you may get 28mpg
    on a long run.
    
    Great looking, lovely to drive (apart from moving from a standstill -
    diesel characteristic). Ideal crusing speed (regarding noise,
    smoothness etc) seemed to be 75mph. Stereo was RDS, Dolby, Music
    Search, Four Speakers and, to me, was perfectly acceptable. Stereos are
    important to me but I'm not an afficianado. Rear door was cumbersome
    and looks like a nightmare in a supermarket car park. Bags of leg room
    in the back, silly really. I'm sure they could have got a third row of
    seats in like the Maverick/Terrano. Liked controls but would have liked
    a one flick wipe facility on steering column plus a VARIABLE
    intermittent wipe. Headlights not up too much but then we won't be
    doing 120mph will we!
    
    Altogether a totally silly vehicle for us (and I suspect most people)
    but we loved it. My wife especially has gone bananas over it as have
    the kids. We could very well end up with one.
    
    Bad news is that taking into account increase cost on car scheme, plus
    higher list price (i.e. income tax) and higher fuel consumption it will
    cost us approx �88-00 a month extra to run than my Mazda 626 Estate!!! Mind
    you a straight replacement for the Mazda (car scheme wise) is now an
    Astra Estate (albeit CDX).
    
    Richard
    

    
    Well, here we are and we got one. Arrived pretty unexpectedly (2 months
    early but Leaseplan didn't mind).
    
    Ok, I take back all I said about the stereo. The speakers are
    unbelievably bad. OK at background music levels but turn it up (not
    even to loud) and the bass just distorts to hell.
    
    Anyone got any experience/views? I'm currently battling with Vauxhall
    to get them upgraded. Wadham Kenning's current stance is "Well we are most
    surprised as Vauxhall say (note Vauxhall not 'we'. What sort of 
    salesmanship is this? This seems to be their attitude namely 'not my
    problem') upgraded them recently. Anyway, we'll say they've blown and get
    them replaced".
    
    My immediate question is with what?
    
    Anyway, in anticipation of getting more of the same has anyone...
    
    1) Got Vauxhall (or a dealer) to upgrade the speakers at no cost?
    2) Got Leaseplan to earn their money and do something on your behalf
    (they must have some clout. So should Digital for that matter)?
    3) Given up and upgraded the speakers. If so, any recommended speakers
    or dealers to advise.
    
    I think the stereo unit is basically OK. Grundig, dolby, etc. May not
    be an afficianado's unit but I'm sure, given decent speakers, it is
    acceptable.
    
    Richard

    
    Richard,
    
    I have the (revised) SC804 on my Frontera Sport and the sound quality
    is fine - not up to the standard of the seperates I had in my own car,
    but not as bad as yuo say yours is. Assuming that they don't upgrade
    the speakers when they fit an upgraded stereo then either you've got
    bad speakers (all 4, unlikely) or the stereo is what's producing the
    distortion (much more likely). 
    
    The stereo/speaker combination in mine is quite capable of drowning all
    road and engine noise as I drive up the M6 every morning - at just a
    little above the legal limit %^)
    
    Graham

    Graham,
    
    	Ah, this is interesting. I borrowed a demonstrator back in early
    Feb and had no complaints about the stereo (see my earlier review).
    This included a 80-90mph 80 mile M4 trip with music on (so it must have 
    been loud).
    
    The model I have is a Frontera Diamond Estate. It has a Grundig system,
    not sure of number, but it is the same as was in the demonstrator (i.e.
    RDS, CPS, Dolby, etc). So, is it possible I have the 'old' speakers in
    mine (last of a job lot?). I think it is the speakers as the problem
    sounds 'speakerish'.
    
    Richard

    
    Well they replaced the speakers but only a marginal improvement has
    been achieved. I think I'll esclate this through Lease Plan and see
    what their reaction is.
    
    One another point. Two clinically tested consumption figures achieved so
    far for a 2.8TDi Estate:
    
    1) 280 miles of town driving (Reading) done over a two week period.
    Most journeys in the region of 3 miles. Literally, the car did not
    leave Reading. 24.3 mpg.
    
    2) 293 miles of total motorway/dual carriageway driving (2 x 150ish
    mile trips) at a more or less constant 75mph. 27.5 mpg.
    
    I think both these figures are respectable for the types of journies
    and the vehicle size. I can live with these (but not with the
    speakers!).
    
    Richard 

    I've just started using a personal CD via the tape slot in my Frontera.
    Although I've had buzzing speakers with tapes, with the CD line out to
    cassette adapter it can go well into painful with no speaker distortion
    at all. Perhaps its to do with signal strength at source?
    
    Andy
    
    P.S. Tried the Sony 242CK first of all, it was a load of rubbish (IMO)
    skipping all over the place on normal roads (and once or twice merely
    by braking). Swapped it for the Sanyo with the car kit and 3 sec. read
    ahead buffer, vastly superior (can cope with our cobbled street up to
    about 25mph - the wonders of modern technology) and it was �30 cheaper.

    
    You may have a point here. The speakers just cannot cope with any sort
    of distinct bass sound off tape. Radio, as you say, can be turned up to
    'reasonably loud' with no ill effect although ultimately it too
    distorts the speakers.
    
    Richard

    I've read the previous notes about the Frontera speakers with
    interest. I've had 2 frontera's, and the problem has been the same with
    both of them. It was always my opinion that the speakers were just not
    up to the output of the stereo. Like a previous noter, the stereo looks
    reasonable quality (to my untrained eye). It even sounds OK, up to the
    point where you play something with a lot of bass. 
    
    The bass control on my set stays flat at most. If you turn it up even 1
    degree then you just get a good impression of the morning after a
    chicken vindaloo. The speakers in the back are too far away to be any
    use. To get anything reasonable out of them you have to crank the set
    right up and that just makes the distortion worse.
    
    I too have a portable CD player that I put through the system and I
    agree the sound quality is a lot better, but the problem is definitely
    still there. I still daren't touch that bass control. It also depends a
    lot on what you're listening to. My music tastes encompass some pretty
    bass-heavy stuff which even at only moderate volume causes distortion
    in the treble frequencies (as if the speakers can't handle both).
    
    I'd like to fit better speakers but don't want to hack the car around
    too much. I use the back for large loads quite regularly so I can't
    compromise the load area or being able to fold the back seats down.
    Ideally I'd like a set of speakers that fit straight into the holes
    that the orginals come out of. I'd be really interested if anyone finds
    a solution to this problem.
    
    My wife has a Mondeo and I'd be glad to get anywhere near the sound
    quality of the standard Ford system she has.
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I
                              

    I've just re-read the last few replies again and it seems that the
    problem is most definitely with the Estate version. I have the Sport
    version and don't get the sort of problems either Tony or Richard are
    having. This could be because the rear speakers are much nearer in the
    Sport and so the volume doesn't have to be so high. Or it could be that
    the speaker mounting in the Sport gives better Bass without needing to
    turn up the Bass control.
    
    Graham

    ... yes I should confirm that my current Frontera and the previous one
    were both estate versions.
    
    Tony I

    
    Me again,
    
    	Tony has described the EXACT characteristics of my problem (Estate
    too). I've spoken to several car radio shops. Several points have been
    made.
    
    1) Frontera is a great hi fi vehicle. Lots of solidity to increase the
    'baffle' capability. Therefore you can get great bass because the body
    and fittings are that much sturdier than a normal car.
    
    2) Car is BIG. Therefore you need suprisingly more volume to achieve
    comfortable listening level.
    
    3) The above means you need a more powerful system than you'd have,
    say, in an Escort. Secondly, the speakers need to be cope with higher
    volumes and high bass response.
    
    They reckon swapping the speakers is a doddle. So, I'll be
    investigating this option.
    
    Richard

    Hi,
    
    Just a quick note on standard fit speakers in cars, generally they
    are of a poor quality anyway, if you enjoy your music on the move
    then invest in a reputable replacement set for front or back of your
    car.
    Many hi-fi companys make direct standard fit replacements which as
    suggests no extra cutting or drilling is required to dramatically
    improve the sound quality of your i.c.e. sony,kenwood,pioneer,
    alpine all produce resonably priced replacement for your car.
    
    Personally, i replaced the front set in my pug405 with a 2-way +
    tweeter set from infinty and it really transforms the quality,
    and it only took about an hour to fit it at home,
    
    Cheers
    
    Mark

    
    Mark,
    
    	I guess its hard to say what is 'reasonable' but how much did you
    pay, for example, for the speakers you fitted? I was recommended a pair
    of Infinitys at a cost of about �100-00. The lowest quote I got to
    achieve a 'significant improvement' was �70-00. Kenwood I think. At the
    top end was a pair of speakers, new on the market, with their own
    built in baffles. �199-00. I thought the latter was a bit steep fort my
    purposes.
    
    Richard

    Hi,
    
    The speakers i fitted were the "Infinity 600cs kit"(with seperate 
    tweeters that fit in the dash recess) which i managed to get for 
    100qiud down tottenham court rd. about 7months ago and do give the 
    whole car an excellent sound.
    
    You do in my experience get what you pay for but the shop i got
    these from recommend sonys as the next best thing, a similair set
    i would have got for 80quid, then alpine/kenwood so the advice 
    you've been given sounds about right, do shop around though
    
    Cheers
    
    mark

    
    Where'd you put the tweeters? What recess are you referring to?
    
    Richard

    Richard,
    
    please please keep me posted if you find a good set of speakers that
    solve this problem. (Especially if they fit straight in place of the old
    ones).
        
    Tony I

    
    Tony,
    
    	Will do. I have a brand new set of 60 watt Kenwood's (5.25) inch at
    home. Bought them 6 years ago but never fitted them. These cost �40-00
    then. My first step is to see whether they fit and whether they make
    any difference. Failing that, looks like I need to set aside �100-00.
    My wife can't see what's wrong with existing ones! Typical!
    
    Richard

    
    The saga continues....
    
    First of all DON'T replace the speakers first!!!!
    
    Last Thursday I payed �118-00 for a pair of Infinity speakers for the
    front and Pioneers for the back (The Kenwood's I had didn't fit). 
    Result? No difference!! I could not believe it.
    
    The speakers definitely sound better at low volumes (but not THAT much
    better). However, turn up the volume and the very same distorted bass
    appears.
    
    I have also observed that, at night,  when you turn up the bass and/or
    volume the liquid crystal display on the front of the stereo dims with
    the beat. This suggests to me that the unit's power supply cannot
    deliver the power to deal with bass. Particularly punchy bass recorded
    from CD onto tape. Easy listening, orchestral and almost anything on
    radio sounds not too bad.
    
    So, looks like the correct course of action is to:
    
    1) Replace existing Grundig unit (I have NEVER NEVER NEVER had good
    experience of Grundig equipment other than a tape recorder and radio
    crica 1956 that my parents owned). Needs to be powerful to fill a
    Frontera.
    
    2) Then, if you're not satisfied, replace the speakers. I got mine from
    Motolec on the Caversham Road in Reading. The speakers fitted perfectly
    and took about 20 minutes to fit (no exagerration).
    
    My only trouble is how do I convince my wife I need to spend another
    150-200 quid!!
    
    Richard

    Richard,
    
    many, many thanks for sharing your experience. This is a really good
    example of experimental observation being worth all the theorising in
    the world!!
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I

    
    Yes, but look at the cost!!
    
    Richard

    Last week i received a RECALL notice for my Frontera Sport.
    
    The important words are ...
    
    "We are writing to inform you that the fuel tank on some Fronteras
    built prior to February 1995 may be effected by hot escaping gases from
    a damaged exhaust tailpipe"
    
    The fix is to fit a heat shield.
    
    Leaseplan received the notification on 29-Feb-1995, so it took four
    weeks to get through to me. Thus keep an eye on your in-trays for your
    URGENT Frontera Vehicle Recall!
    
    mb

    
    Like I said earlier, the distortion is likely to be coming from the
    unit - the more you turn it up, the more it distorts - the better your
    speakers are, the better they will reproduce the distortion. 
    
    When you turn the Bass and volume up, how far is 'up' ? if by 'up' you
    mean full volume, full bass then most Car stereo systems would distort;
    if you mean  half volume and just a little bit of bass then there's
    probably something wrong with the system.
      
    Graham

    
    Hi Graham,
    
    	I think Tony and my experience is identical. Therefore I don't
    suspect a faulty unit. Just extremely poor piece of kit.
    
    If we take two examples that spring to mind....
    
    Simply Red's 'Life' album recorded off CD is not listenable too at much
    above a third volume with the bass control set to midway.
    
    Status Quo's 'Don't Stop', once again, recorded off CD cannot be
    listened to with the vehicle in motion. That is you cannot turn the
    volume up enough to hear the music above the road noise. It just
    distorts.
    
    Pretty pathetic really. I suspect the unit would sound fine in a mini
    or Fiesta but its just not man enough in a Frontera. I'm surprised
    Grundig allow Vauxhall to get away with it. No one would ever buy
    anything by Grundig after this experience.
    
    Richard

       
       >>Simply Red's 'Life' album recorded off CD is not listenable too at
       >>much above a third volume with the bass control set to midway.
    
       >>Status Quo's 'Don't Stop', once again, recorded off CD cannot be
       >>listened to with the vehicle in motion. That is you cannot turn the
       >>volume up enough to hear the music above the road noise. It just
       >>distorts.
    
       Are you sure the machine is not performing some form of "taste"
    control?? 
    
    			Stretch/

    
    I still reckon it's the unit, not the speakers. My Frontera sport has a
    Philips SC804 (latest type) in it and it's fine, if you're still
    getting distrotion now the speakers have been changed then it _must_ be
    the unit - is this perhaps why GM switched to Philips ?
    
    Graham 

>>    When you turn the Bass and volume up, how far is 'up' ? if by 'up' you
>>    mean full volume, full bass then most Car stereo systems would distort;
    
    Volume > half way
    Bass - Anywhere over the centre detent position (in fact I sometimes
    have to roll the bass OFF a bit to stop distortion).
    
    I take the point that you don't get 'Audiophile' performance from a
    stock car stereo, but as I said previously, I'd be happy just to get the 
    same output (and quality) that my wife's Mondeo stereo produces.
    
    If the Grundig exercises taste control then it also doesn't like Brand
    New Heavies and especially doesn't like the Brecker Brothers!
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I
         

�    in fact I sometimes have to roll the bass OFF a bit to stop distortion.
        
        Tony,
    
	Sounds like that's the problem, have you tried putting it on
	the roof rack?

	Ian.

    ..well I now have a sound system I'm fairly satisfied with, but I've
    learned a bit about the Frontera acoustics in the process.
    
    I junked the Grundig unit and replaced it with a Sony. This on its own
    made a small amount of difference. The Sony is much more powerful but
    the speakers couldn't handle it. 
    
    I then swapped the front speakers with some Blaupunkt dual concentric
    which fitted straight into place. This now allowed me to turn the
    volume up a lot more, but still I wasn't getting the bass I wanted to
    hear. 
    
    I decided the problem was really just down to the position of the rear
    speakers. They are tucked low down right in the back corners of the
    vehicle, and broadcast to the backs of the rear seats. When sitting in
    the drivers seat you just can't hear them so it's up to the front
    speakers to do it all themselves. Rather than just replace the rear
    speakers 'in place' I bought some cheapo 'surface mount' speakers from
    Les Smith that are supposed to go on the parcel shelf of a 'normal'
    car. I say cheapo (�50 reduced to �30) but they claim to be rated at
    150w and consist of 3 driver units and a bass port. 
    
    These won't actually mount anywhere in the Frontera, so what I did was
    put some velcro on them and sit them on the carpeted floor of the load area.
    They point upwards at about 45 degrees. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Suddenly I
    can hear the bass guitar again. With the fader on centre most of the
    sound is coming from the back of the car.
    
    The problem with this set up is the speakers have to move when I carry
    loads, but its not too much hassle. Being secured only with velcro
    means they just "rip" out. I intend to fit female speaker plugs to the
    end of the speaker wires so that these can also be detached easily. 
    
    As I said, it's not ideal but it's worth the small amount of hassle for
    the vastly improved sound. It's also worth noting that the component
    which made the biggest difference was the one that cost the least!
    
    Tony I
    

    
    Tony,
    
    Did upgrading from the Grundig to the Sony get rid of the 'bleurp'
    syndrome when you turn up the bass (i.e. excessive distortion). I'm
    assuming that it did and that your rear speaker upgrade simply
    increased the definition of the bass.
    
    How much were the Blaupunkt speakers? 
    
    What Sony unit did you put in and how much?
    
    How does the Grundig come out? Do you need some sort of tool?
    
    Your idea reminds me that I have a pair of Wharfedale Melton speakers
    in the attic (18"*12"*12" approx)! With the rear load mounting bolts
    they would fit very nicely it (but not much else would!).
    
    I am currently in 'short list' stage of selecting a suitable supplier
    to replace my stereo. Sony hasn't figured to date. No real reason, just
    not been 'sold' on one.
    
    Richard

    Hi, 
    
    Yes after switching to the Sony unit the original problem seemed to be
    fixed, but turning up too much did produce "it's obviously too loud"
    type distortion.
    
    Upgrading the front speakers allowed the volume and bass to be turned
    up more, but they were still incapable of "filling" the frontera's
    rather large interior on their own. You end up turning the volume up
    far more than you really need. This is when it became clear to me
    that something would need to be done in the back. 
    
    Adding the rear speakers allows the system to work far less hard to
    provide a decent listening level. It would have been interesting to see
    how the original Grundig unit performed with the new speaker
    positions (but I'm buggered if I'm going to put it back to see 8*)).
    
    Even the way I have it now, if you use almost full volume and put the
    loudness on, it will distort, but by then your ears will be bleeding
    anyway!
    
    The Blaupunkt speakers were about �45 but I got 20% discount for buying
    them with the Sony system (the new Halfords near PC World in Reading).
    
    The Sony system is model XR-6650RDS and was the cheapest unit I could
    find that had all the features I wanted. It was �250. I've always liked
    Sony gear and what is particularly nice about this unit is the tape
    transport. It's very much like a home system. Things like when
    searching tracks with the AMS function it doesn't just clunk from fast
    wind into play mode; it slows the tape down and gently switches over.
    It's output is 4*22w. (The most powerful systems I saw were 4*35w, I
    think for higher powers than this you normally use an external booster
    amp). It's also got a nice gimmick that you can select the display
    colour to be either amber or green (green goes better with the
    frontera's dash illumination).
    
    To remove the Grundig you need a "car stereo removal tool" which is
    really just two hoop shaped pieces of wire. It only costs about �1.50
    but you could easily make one out of a coat hanger. You remove 4 grub
    screws with a small allen key then push the wire hoops into the holes.
    Then just pull. The tough bit is you then need to remove the metal
    surround to get to the wires. Halfords had various adapter kits to
    allow you to plug the multi-block from the original stereo into the new
    one, but unfortunately the Frontera was not listed. Instead I used the
    brave approach and just cut all the wires then joined them to the new
    multi block using crimp connectors. A multi-meter is handy to find out
    which wire is permanent 12v, which is switched 12v and so on. If you're
    going to do it this way then I have scribbled down the colours of the
    wires and will post them for you.
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I

    Thanks Tony,
    
    	Yes, �250 was about what I'd decided I'd need to spend. I think CRS
    charge about �30 to fit. Maybe, just for a laugh, I'll try my
    Wharfedales in the back and see what the Grundig's capable of then.
    
    Richard

        �    	Yes, �250 was about what I'd decided I'd need to spend. 
        
        Good grief, you people must really love music. I've bought
        cars for less than that.
        
        Ian.

    
    Yes, well when I went looking at car stereos (I last bought one of my
    own in 1980) I was expecting to pay about �80-90! I has taken me time
    to adjust to current prices. In fact my first car was �240-00 come to
    think of it.
    
    Richard

    
    Well, now replaced the standard unit with a Clarion ARX5170V at about
    �230-00. My experience is identical to that of Tony's a few back.
    
    So, I too now am reasonably happy with the sound I am getting. To
    recap, Clarion ARX5170V, Infinity 600 Reference Series speakers in
    front, Pioneers in back. Total cost, about �370-00!!
    
    However, like Tony has found, the front speakers just cannot cope with
    punchy bass (although 10 times better than before). I think the
    acoustics etc of the front of a Frontera just mitigate against getting
    any punchy bass. I don't really understand that because the mountings
    appear substantial. There is plenty of air space behind the cones.
    
    As for the rear speakers. Well they are physically small and low down
    and also some considerable distance from the front seats. They also
    have little or no air space behind them. So, these are not going to 
    compensate much. Having said this the whole system sounds
    better with the fader biassed to the rear speakers (as opposed to 0
    setting).
    
    I can well see, now, how the addition of some 'man-size' speakers in the
    back will be the 'icing on the cake'. That's the next phase! I may also
    investigate building some sort of mini enclosure for the front speakers
    such that there is a 'box' behind them and not just space. This may or
    may not be feasible depending upon space.
    
    Richard.
    
    PS:
    
    My shortlist was the Clarion ARX5170V or the Sony XR6700RDS
    (supersedes the 6650. Difference is 30 watts). The Clarion suffers by
    having no RDS but, for me, scored on the following:
    
    1) Ease of use. I found the Sony fiddly and the buttons not as positive
    as the Clarion.
    
    2) Sound. Preferred the sound. I was able to compare them side by side
    with a cassette of my own. However, they used different speakers so it
    was probably a meaningless test.
    

    
    Well, I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences on this
    one.
    
    On advice from someone I decided to make sure I could change a wheel on
    the Frontera rather than wait for that dark, cold, rainy night when, if
    I am to get a flat, it will happen. So on Sunday I got the jack out. Learnt
    how to unbolt the spare inclduing removing metal cover etc. All went
    well with rear wheel. No problems although the jack struck me as naff
    but it did the job.
    
    Now the interesting bit. When I placed the jack under the front jacking
    point then, even on full extension, it could not raise the wheel high
    enough for it to be removed. This was on flat ground.
    
    So, I decided to place a brick under the jack (should I really have to
    do this?). However, the process of extending the jack fully has
    resulted in me not being able to now compress it enough to fit under
    the jacking point. In seems to have jammed.
    
    In short it would have been impossible to change the front wheel. Have
    I done something wrong or is the jack just totally unfit for purpose?
    
    Richard

    You do know you're supposed to let the air out first?
    
    Andrew

    
    Re -.2. I suspect the larger as I seem to recall a Diamond has larger
    wheels (I assume width).
    
    Anyway, I spent over an hour at Wadham Kenning this morning. After
    first negotiating the abysmal front office service (it really is
    disgraceful but I won't go into it) a very nice
    mechanic came out and looked at the jack etc. Firstly he had to take it
    into the workshop to unjam it so that it would fit under the car.
    Having done this he came back and attempted to lift the front of the
    car. The jack was starting to bend (yes the thinner of the two
    telescopic 'bits', see below) and the front wheel was still not off 
    the ground. It was patently clear that the jack would bend if it was
    raised any further (not that it would go much further, certainly not
    enough for the tyre to clear the ground).
    
    He was very helpful. Even offered to see if they had an old heavy duty
    jack kicking around that I could have. I declined. His only suggestion
    was that I carry a 3 inch thick block of wood with me!
    
    
                              |  |
                              |  |
          Thin Bit            |  |
                              |  |
                             |    |
          Thick Bit          |    |
                             |    |
                             |    |
                             |    |
                          ||||||||||||
    
    
    	I contacted Lease Plan who were, as I have always found, helpful in
    the extreme. They had had other complaints concerning jacks and
    Fronteras and authorised purchase of something decent from Halfords.
    
    So, it wasn't just me it appears.
    
    Richard

    I'd get a trolley jack and a small trailer in that case ;-)
    
    Seriously though, why not just call out the Digital version of the
    roadside recovery scheme wif you get a flat ?
    
    (This probably won't work if you're off-roading at the time, I guess.)
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

    Why not take the old jack back to the dealer under warranty and ask for
    a replacement which is fit for the purpose for which it was sold.
    
    How can GM-Opel-Vauxhall get away with this?
    
    I'm appalled ........ but somehow not surprised!
    
    Chris

Anyone with a Frontera (Sport) want a spare
wheel cover?

Dead cheap.

Simon

    
    I've had my Frontera Estate Diamond (has fat tyres) for 3 months now.
    The steering has always pulled to the left and this pull increases with
    increased road camber. The pull is such that constant 'right hand down'
    is needed for most driving on 'normal roads' say around town. This
    includes motorways.
    
    Now Wadham Kenning has had the vehicle three times now and their party
    line is the tyres that are fitted will cause this and that the
    vehicle is 'OK on neutral camber'.
    
    Anyone got any similar experiences? I cannot believe this should be
    accepted as normal.
    
    Richard

    I had a Frontera Sport with the alloys and big tyres for 2 and a half
    years and never had a problem like that. However mine had a solid rear
    axle and leaf springs, later ones are different. also I think there is
    some change made to the suspension setting and ride height if the
    larger wheels are fitted, could it be that they were fitted at the dealer
    rather than factory fitted and the mod hasn't been done ?
    
    G.

    re. 406.
    
    	I have a 2.2i estate Frontera with the big fat tires, and the
    car has a very noticeable tendancy to go its own way when you get in
    those "sunken tracks" left by lorries in the "slow" lane of dual 
    carriageways and Motorways.  It is an effect that I think is called 
    "tramlining".
    	When I first got the car, it was (and still does) have a tendancy
    to drive itself off the road unless you correct for the camber.
    Tracking is ok and the tires are wearing ok.  I have just put it down to
    suspension changes/big fat tires.
    	My last Frontera estate was not as nearly susceptable to camber or
    "tramling" although it still did it in extreme cases.
    
    
    	Chris.

    
    Chris,
    
    	So, are you saying you get the same as me namely a tendency to
    drive up the kerb if left to its own devices?
    
    I accept that the directional stability of 4x4s cannot be compared to
    normal cars. You will always have to steer them in a straight line.
    Also ruts etc will cause the car to steer off the straight and narrow.
    
    I'm off on the continent in a couple of weeks time so I guess, if
    Wadham Kenning are right, it will pull to the right mostly. We shall
    see.
    
    Richard

    Richard,
    
    i can't believe that this is "normal", because potentially it could
    cause an accident - you can't have vehicles wandering off course by
    default!
    
    Could it be a jammed front differential, so that one wheel is turning
    the cogs but the other is free-wheeling. Try slipping into 4wd for a
    few yards to see if it loosens things up.
    
    mb

    
    No, 4 wheel drive doesn't make any difference. From some of the replies
    here it seems I am not alone in experiencing this. 
    
    Richard

    From the sounds of it, it looks like GM-Opel-Vauxhall have designed the
    Frontera with a minimum of castor to reduce steering effort, and this
    is insufficient for the wider tyres.  This would also manifest itself
    as a reduced self centring affect on steering.  Is this the case?
    
    Are the wheels any different to accomodate the wider tyres? 
    (Particularly increased outset)
    
    Chris
    

    
    Chris, this sounds a very plausible explanation. I find the Frontera
    very driveable and the steering in particular is no effort. But, as you
    say, the self centreing is markedly less than a normal car.
    
    I am inclined to think that Vauxhall have produced this 'Diamond'
    edition Frontera and shoved flashy fat wheels on it with absolutely no
    heed to the resultant handling. Amazing really.
    
    By the way, it must be the same situation as my 'jack story' a few
    replies back. The jack is a British make hence its obviously a Vauxhall
    'buy in'. I would like to think that an Opel/GM vehicle would have a
    jack thats fit for purpose.
    
    Richard

    
    >I am inclined to think that Vauxhall have produced this 'Diamond'
    >edition Frontera and shoved flashy fat wheels on it with absolutely no
    >heed to the resultant handling. Amazing really.
    
    I would agree. There are a number of things that have been done to the
    Frontera, with no consideration for the effect that it has. Another
    example is the tow bar electrics. If you buy the Genuine Vauxhall twin
    electrics kit for the Estate, you will get the kit that the fits the
    original 2.3/2.4i engines but not the 2.8/2.2i. One of the connectors
    is not compatable, so you have to "modify" the kit to get it to fit.
    There is no kit for the newer models. Now, I think this is a bit off. 
    
    I haven't driven the new model estate with "conventional" tires so as
    to get a comparison to see if different tires sizes make a difference
    to the handling.
    
    
    	Chris

    Another example is the security system supplied as standard on the
    Diamond....
    
    1) If you unlock and lock the car from the driver's door then all
    performs OK.
    
    2) If you unlock the passenger's door first then the alarm will go off.
    
    3) If you unlock the rear door first then the alarm cancels as you
    would expect. So, if it can do this from the rear door why not the
    passenger's door?
    
    4) If you open the rear door (after unlocking the drivers door) then
    the central locking will not relock the rear door. You have to manually
    lock it.
    
    Richard
    

    
    Well, just covered 2,200 miles driving from here to Spain and back. A
    couple of observations...
    
    1) Steering 'pull' I mentioned was virtually non-existent. So, it
    appears that the vehicle pulls more to the left in the UK than it pulls
    to the right in France or Spain. The explanation could be that UK roads
    are cambered more (unlikely) or that there is some set up on the
    steering that causes this phenomenon. Or could the Michelin tyres be
    'treaded' to suit right hand camber roads?
    
    2) The good news. 5 up, loaded to the gunwhales, cruising at 70-80 on
    autoroutes, 2.8 diesel = 35mpg. This is truly excellent for a vehicle
    this size. Wait a minute, this is truly excellent for a vehicle half
    the size with a similar load. My Mazda and my BMW never achieved this
    consumption. The consumption has noticeably improved
    as the vehicle has become run in. My first measurements were 27mpg and
    now at 6000 miles 35 mpg. Will it improve further?
    
    Richard