Conference terri::cars_uk

    I've never noticed any differnce on the odd occasion when I've used
    Shell, the car normally get the cheapest diesel I can find. The biggest
    difference seems to be between summer and winter grades, on the winter
    grades I seem to loose 3-5 mpg
    
    Brian

Additives. More or less detergents etc.

Simon

Ok a question for you folks.   What was the first(ie. original) diesel fuel?

Yes, I've noticed that some fuels definitely seem to run cleaner than others...
though it could be the place I buy it from....is Diesle like beer, in that it
has to "cellared" properly ?  (come to think of it, one or two pubs
serve beer that tastes like diesel...)

Worst one I've come across so far is "Sainsbury's own brand".
There's no fuel-company name up at all, so you have no way of telling
what you're buying....and it's filthy!

First diesel fuel ?   Wasn't it something odd, like thin vegetable oil,
or paraffin, or something ?

ian

    
    
    Elaine tell your father to always use Diesel and not Derv :-).......
    

Wasn't it coal dust or something like that??.....

Dave

Congratulations Dave,  Yes indeed it was fine coal dust. Apparenty it was 
rather successful in a crude sort of way.

Simon

    Elaine,
    
    I am currently running the L-R Turbo D on BP (collecting the vouchers)
    and it smokes like b*gg$ry, especially on tick over.  Shell always
    seems to produce good results as does Esso.  A friend on mine runs a
    diesel Sierra with the older 2.3L engine and refuses to use Jet as he
    says you can't see behind the car for clouds of black smoke when you
    accelerate.
    
    Alan
    

    
    Mobil claim that there diesel doesn't wax in the winter (down to some
    temp. or other). I've experienced  the effect of waxing, and it's not
    pleasant loosing power intermittently! As for the others well they're
    pretty much of a muchness in my opinion, I too go for the cheapest
    stuff I can find.
    
    RE: all the black smoke complaints; Have you people tried renewing your
    injectors or at least considered having the pump checked or tuned?? 

Tip from a Lorry driver 

1 pint paraffin to tank of diesel prevents waxing down to -30�C.

(that's a lorry tank, so � pint would probably do for a car)

Don't ask me why it has this effect...I don't know.

>>
    RE: all the black smoke complaints; Have you people tried renewing your
    injectors or at least considered having the pump checked or tuned?? 
>>
    I don't think there is a problem with the injectors/pump - since the 
    black smoke can easily be correllated with the source of the fuel. 
    
    My initial question was really about what the differences are between
    the different 'makes' of diesel.

Re .-2

My handbook (AX diesel) suggests that upto 15% petrol mixed with the diesel 
is OK. I tried 10% and not had any problems, but then I have not experienced 
waxing either.


Mark.

>> Tip from a Lorry driver 
    
    A new vocation Jane ?
    
    
    Shaun.
    

in the UK at least, to prevent waxing in the fuel filter. The BX has, and I've
never had problems. The "winter formulation" that all the manufacturers switch
to in the Autumn helps down to something like -10 degrees C.

I've never had to resort to the fuel doping mentioned here.

Re smoke; I used to use Tesco diesel - they get it from Texaco in the main,
and I never had problems. I filled up last week at the new Sainsbury's on
the M27, and it's been smoky since. I'll try once more; if it's the same
I'll complain to them.

Peter.

>>> Tip from a Lorry driver 
    
>    A new vocation Jane ?
    
Nope, an ex-landlord was an international lorry driver, and spent many a winter 
in Sweden...

    The BX didn't always have a heater, the first diesels didn't and I had
    hell. Particularly as the fuel filter is situated just behind the
    headlamp.
    
    Richard

    NO HEATER IN MY 205 EITHER ,
    except hot-water is pumped through the filter when the engines warmed
    up, that doesnt help me start up in the morning though. I'd heard of
    putting a gallon of petrol in the tank prior to filling with diesel as
    well, during winter of course 8^) . Ive never tried it though. Does
    anyone know what effect this will have on starting the engine in v.cold
    weather ?  
    
    	Tony.
    

>>                     <<< Note 1621.16 by CMOTEC::JASPER >>>
>>                            -< diesel/petrol mix. >-

>>    NO HEATER IN MY 205 EITHER ,
>>    except hot-water is pumped through the filter when the engines warmed
>>    up, that doesnt help me start up in the morning though. I'd heard of
    
    That's a fuel heater! The early BX's had no heater, then they had an
    electric heater in the fuel line (look like an enourmous plumbed in
    truncheon). Then they went to a water heater in the fuel line (low down
    behind the engine).
    
    The pugs that I have seen (309,405) have the water leading to the top
    of the filter assembly.
    
    It's not actually too bad, as the water is as direct off the engine as
    the heater is, and thus warms up immediately. I did find a few litres
    of unleaded put in before the diesel when I filled up helped prevent
    any problems in the tank.
    
    Richard
    

    Whilst continuing the reports of `dirty' diesel....
    
    I filled up with Q8 diesel the other day - it was cheap but never
    again!  Smokey?  All the time there was this grey haze and on start up
    from cold you were engulfed in a blue, chocking cloud.
    
    It back to Shell, Esso or Texaco for us!

Has anybody tried Shell's (?) new "deodorised" diesel ?

Is it any more pleasant/cleaner, etc... ?



BTW, on the subject of smoking or non-smoking fuels, the mechanic at my local
garage had some observations to make on the subject.....


1) Cheap fuel is, basically, the dregs from the bottom of the production process.
   (Fuel companies can buy various grades of fuel, and either cut the good stuff
   with the rubbish, or just sell you the rubbish !)

2) The efficiency of the burning (exploding?) process is directly affected by
   the state of the injectors.  It's worth getting them checked/cleaned rather
   more often than the 20 or so years the book says ;-)....and a shot of 
   injector-cleaner (Redex for diesels), now and then, is a good idea too. 

3) Diesels with turbochargers will very happily dump unburned (unexploded!)
   all over the road when people try to run them like petrol engines and get
   the revs up. 

Ian

Bought my first diesel car on Saturday. First fill up was with the new Shell
deodorised ... very nice smell. Reminds me of some perfume, but can't remember
which.

Anyway, being new to diesels, any tips other than those in -.1 for keeping
the polution down ? Someone mentioned to me that the fuel filter should be
changed often. Having spent a few years on motorcycles behind and at the
side of smoking diesels, I don't now want to become one of them.

    re.19
    
    the injectors were checked about 1500 miles ago as an extra on the last
    service.
    
    From my experience, the diesel fractions in the distilling process must
    look like:
    
    	Shell		Good, clean burn
    	Esso			^
    	Texaco			|
    	|			|
    	|			|
    	BP		Getting worse
    	|			|
    	|			|
    	Jet			V
    	Murco		Cough, cough
    	Q8

    
    Fuel filter replacement on a regular basis is a must. The longevity of
    your injector pump relies on crapless fuel flowing through it... Indeed
    the fuel acts as a lubricant while passing through the pump so is
    "ESSENTIAL"!!! This is why one must NEVER run the pump with no diesel
    passing in the system...
    
    I replace my filter twice a year and drain it inbetween, at least once.
    The filter acts as a water trap as well as a bit filter. On some cars
    the filter is fitted with a sensor which detects water (Peugeot 405),
    when activated one should drain it from the little plastic gizmo on the
    bottom. 
    
    Ian (275000 on my cars clock)

    RE: last
    
    When you say "twice a year", what does that equate to in terms of miles
    driven? Or are the miles irrelevant?
    
    Laurie.

    I do about 20000km (+) per year (sorry I have a LHD car, and kilometer
    reading speedo). Even so, in the space of 12 months you can expect a
    fair amount of dirty pumps and condensation! Get in the habit, bite the
    cost bullet and enjoy completely trouble free motoring.
    
    Ian

    Where is the cheapest and/or least smokey diesel to be found in
    Basingstoke/Newbury these days?  Seems to be about 50.9p in most
    places.
    
    
    Jc

    Last time I was doen there, there was a new garage on the A33 just
    south of reading, where its a dual carriageway.  Ther were doing diesel
    for around 45p.
    
    Mikef

    It's 48.9/l for diesel there now... Unleaded is 47.9/l, which is
    actually cheaper than Sainsbury's are doing it in these parts.
    
    
    
    Stephen

    Its funny how the price of fuel varies in different regions.
    
    Around B'stoke and Southampton, unleaded is around 49.9 to 51.9.
    Down in Bournemouth virtually all garages sell it at it 46.9 per litre.
    
    Royston

    I bought Sainsbury's diesel in Ipswich last Saturday, it was 43.6 a
    litre.
    
    Laurie.