Conference terri::cars_uk

    I always thought it a bad idea to leave even the side lights on
    when the engine isn't running. Maybe that's because I drove a
    succession of old bangers but it seems pointless nevertheless to
    strain the battery unnecessarily. I also always thought that
    Fords were poor at starting (especially in the wet). So why did you
    leave the lights on in a well lit petrol station anyway ? Seems
    to me that you don't need a voltmeter but simply need to turn your
    lights off *before* turning the engine off. But then what do *I*
    know, I'm just a plonker who can't even park badly....yet.
                                                              
    
    Jerome.

        
    If you go into one of those while-u-wait battery places they will
    
    test the battery
    
    tell you its knackered
    
    offer to fit a new one.
    

    You didn't mention the type of Fiesta.  If it's a CVH engined version
    (XR2, 1600, 1400) I think it may be a fairly common problem/nonproblem.
    
    I used to have an XR3 Escort and still have a 1600 version. 
    The former used to do exactly what you described - turn over very
    slowly and then start OK, the latter still does this.  I never managed
    to isolate the cause although I had a theory that under certain
    conditions, the CVH engine somehow has a compression lock (It's a very
    hot running engine, perhaps when stopped, residual fuel in the cylinders 
    boils away inreasing pressure in those cylinders with both valves
    closed).  Incidentally, both cars had new batteries installed and this
    didn't solve the problems.
    
    If it's not a CVH engined mobile forget everything I said, I'm sorry I
    ain't got a clue.  But then what do I know, I'm one of the Plonkers
    that provoked the Parking argument. 
    
    Paul   

    When an engine is nicely warmed up, like after a good motorway blast,
    the compression pressure is considerably higher than when it is stone
    cold. This is due to the better seal that the pistons provide once
    expansion has taken place, i.e. they are a tighter fit in the bores.
    
    - John.

                     <<< Note 1572.3 by JUMBLY::RICHARDS >>>
                          -< Problem maybe Noproblem >-

    You didn't mention the type of Fiesta.  If it's a CVH engined version
    (XR2, 1600, 1400) I think it may be a fairly common problem/nonproblem.
    
It's a 1600 Sport Special edition with poncy patterns around the side.

    I used to have an XR3 Escort and still have a 1600 version. 
    The former used to do exactly what you described - turn over very
    slowly and then start OK, the latter still does this.  I never managed
    to isolate the cause although I had a theory that under certain
    conditions, the CVH engine somehow has a compression lock (It's a very
    hot running engine, perhaps when stopped, residual fuel in the cylinders 
    boils away inreasing pressure in those cylinders with both valves
    closed).  Incidentally, both cars had new batteries installed and this
    didn't solve the problems.

It sounds like that could be the problem. I've just stooried along from
Basingtoke at a not inconsiderable speed, and stopped to tank up.


    But then what do I know, I'm one of the Plonkers that 
    provoked the Parking argument. 
    
    Paul   

Anyone that saves me forking out unecessarily on a new battery which I
probably don't need can't be all bad!

Dougie

    

         <<< Note 1572.1 by JUMBLY::BATTERBEEJ "Kinda lingers....." >>>

    [ ... ]
    Fords were poor at starting (especially in the wet). So why did you
    leave the lights on in a well lit petrol station anyway ?  Seems
    to me that you don't need a voltmeter but simply need to turn your
    lights off *before* turning the engine off.
    [ ... ]

Well Jermome my sweet, you certainly have you Mr Nice hat on! Why DID I
leave my lights on in a WELL LIT Petrol Station. Well, gosh, I just don't
know. Maybe I'm not perfect. I might be a nuclear powered sex machine and
drive a very pretty car, but what do I know. And here was me thinking I was
perfect.

I think I might try your completely unpatronising and constructive
suggestion of switching my lights off BEFORE I switch off the engine. Hey,
wouldn't that be an exciting idea.

My my, I'm feeling a sensitive flower today. I think I'll have a rumage
around some other conferences and find something else to take offence at.
(Taking Offence - The national Scottish pastime)

Tum tiddly,

Dougie


    Jerome.

    Ok chaps - who DOES switch of their lights in a petrol station?

    A: Volvo drivers??

    re .7
    
    Dougie, I would say you are in the majority in not switching your
    lights off when stopping for petrol at night. The fact that your car
    reverts to sidelights is to avoid draining the battery in these
    circumstances.
    
    Sidelights need to be left on for a number of hours before the battery
    would be affected. If headlights are left on they can drain the battery
    in a matter of minutes. This was the case with a Citro�n Visa I once
    had.
    
    Roy 

    If your near DECpark, pop into Lucas Electrical, just off the
    Basingstoke Rd.
    
    They have a two pronged thingy, which draws lots of current through
    it's own ammeter.  It'll show you how long the battery can give charge. 
    I had a similar problem on my car.  The voltage looked OK through a
    voltmeter, but when tested with this thing it was revealed to loose 
    power after 30 seconds of high current drain (not normal).  
    
    When doing this test you also look out for the battery cells boiling, 
    this indicates some sort of short within the plates.
    
    This test is free.  If you find the battery is OK, they can also do a 
    simple test to check your alternator current output, cost around �12
    
    As before, beware of the "It's shot sir, would you like a new one we
    have in stock"?
    
    Oh, and get a VW/Bosch battery they're good for life!
    Robert.

  >  conditions, the CVH engine somehow has a compression lock (It's a very
  >  hot running engine, perhaps when stopped, residual fuel in the cylinders 
  >  boils away inreasing pressure in those cylinders with both valves
  >  closed)
    
    I don't think so. Pistons and cylinders are not absolutely gas-tight.
    Turn an engine over by hand and you will hear the compressed air
    hissing past the rings, even if the engine is hot. Could be the other
    reason mentioned though: a more efficient seal when the engine is hot,
    making it harder for the starter motor to compress the mixture.
   
  >  They have a two pronged thingy, which draws lots of current through
  >  it's own ammeter.  
    
    I use a hefty spanner shorted across the terminals. If the battery
    boils in a short time, it's knackered.
    
    Phil Gill.

    Sounds like you need a lights on warning buzzer and possibly an
    alternator , I would get it checked out before the really bad weather
    starts.

>    I use a hefty spanner shorted across the terminals. If the battery
>    boils in a short time, it's knackered.

I used to do that. The spark caused can ignite the gas and blow a ^@$%^ big
hole in your battery and throw acid everywhere.

Mark_with_holes_in_the_front_of_his_overalls.

    Oh yes, I forgot, `only do this in a well ventilated area while wearing
    a suit of armour blah blah blah'.
    
    Phil Gill.

    Oh dear! I can't seem to get anything right, can I ?  First I upset
    people by calling them plonkers, and now I've upset Dougie. :-(
    
    Well Dougie, here I go in a feeble attempt to put things right.
    
    I admit that having re-read my note (.1) it does come across as
    patronising and I apologise.  I sometimes find that I don't always
    get across the tone of what I'm saying when noting. I should have
    put in a smiley face or something to convey the right tone.
       Anyway, like I said, the only reason I always turn off my 
    headlamps first is 'cos I drove a succession of old bangers and if
    I didn't switch off the lights first the battery would've been flat.
    I have also done a mini-survey and find that, once again, I am alone
    in this practice so I again conclude I'm the odd one out.  I should
    also point out, before someone else does, that I am far from perfect.
    I seem to have the uncanny ablilty of inserting my foot in my mouth
    when noting for starters.  In future I shall get my notes tone
    checked prior to posting.  :-)
    
    
    Jerome.
    
    PS - I'm being sooo diplomatic I'm not even going to point out the
         Dougie spelt my name wrong. :-)

    Talking of mini-surveys, here is the latest on the Baby-ON/OFF-Board
    poll ....
    
    	BABY ON BOARD		BABY NOT ON BOARD
    	     3				6
    
    
    I also have a sighting of a Baby on Board Sticker, with baby being
    bounced up and down on mummy's knee in passenger seat. Which category
    does that go in?
    
    Well - there goes a perfectly good topic down a rathole. Don't you just
    hate it when that happens? If I was the base noter I'd be really hacked
    off. er ...
    

    Quick - start talking about batteries again before its too late! 
    
    I've had a look at my battery, and I think it need charged since the
    voltage across the terminals was below 12.2V. (Haynes suggest putting
    Full Beam on for 30 seconds, then checking the potential drop against
    the specification they give.)
    
    Now I'm concerned. It looks like the battery could do with a teeny bit
    topping up, but nothing noticable. Another question; if I drive over a
    hundred miles a day, should I every need to manually recharge the
    battery? I don't think so., The car has just had a 36000 mile service
    (�170) - and I would have thought/hoped that they checked the
    alternator. In fact, I would have thought that they'd have checked the
    battery too. I'll go and pester Jackson's I think.
    
    Dougie
    Neither sensitive, or flowery today.

    re -1. er, shouldn't that be in `Seen in Passing' ?
    
    re -2. No, you should never have to manually charge your battery if you
    are doing that distance. An alternator functioning properly should
    charge a battery from flat to fully charged within a few miles of
    driving (depending on engine revs). Old dynamo charging systems were
    prone to flat batteries if short distances + lights on journeys were
    made frequently. Also, don't forget that you can measure twelve volts
    across a battery and the thing can still be flat as a fart.
    
    Phil Gill.

Reasons (I've had so far) for batteries not charging:

cracked negative pole		(mini)
cracked positive pole		(polo)
duff (oil polluted) regulator 	(polo)


The last is not diagnosable by mechanics/test equipment as the fault only
occurs when the regulator is hot.  It works perfectly when cold/warm.
It is also a fairly common fault in the VW hatchbacks as the regulator is 
mounted on the back of the altenator, just where oil will drip onto it if your 
head gasket blows.

>It is also a fairly common fault in the VW hatchbacks as the regulator is 
>mounted on the back of the altenator, just where oil will drip onto it if your 
>head gasket blows.

Must be really common, just this morning I saw 3 Golfs at the side of the road,
owners gesticulating madly and kicking the side of the cars. All three had quite
obviously blown their head gaskets, the oil dripped onto the regulator and the
batteries had gone flat, and they couldn't start their cars. My advice would be
to avoid VW hatchbacks totally, they have a really serious design fault.

Alex :^)