Conference terri::cars_uk

Dave

I used to have a Sud Ti, which is the same mechanicals in a different bodyshell,
so I hope this may help.

Insurance group - 5/6 because of performance/cost of parts/foreign

Mileage - can't help much here, but about 12k pa is not unreasonable

Cost of parts - NOT CHEAP. In '83 an exhaust system was over �100, and an oil
	        pressure sender was �30, but a pair of cam belts was only �4.50

Reliability - mechanicals are pretty good, mine never let me down in two years.
	      The biggest problem is the body, all the boxer engined Alfa's
	      were notorious for this, due to the thin guage still, poor rust
	      proofing, and thin paint. Even the smallest scratch could develop
	      into a major rust area in a couple of weeks.

Home maintainance - some OK, some awful. Any engine/transmission work requires
		    the whole unit out of the car, you need a � drive socket set
		    and feeler guages to replace the front pads, but replacing
		    the cam belts (36000 miles) takes 15 mins!

Performance - Great. Handles well, with the usual fwd understeer, but immensely
	      chuckable. Lovely growl and response from the boxer engine, and 
	      ratios. Spoilt by awful gear selection mechanism - like stirring
	      thick treacle. I see that the 33 is still the same after all these
	      years.

Hope this may help

Dick

    
    	One of my favourite previous Alfas was an '83 Greencloverleaf
    Sprint... Body was in good condition, not so much of a problem with
    the '83 onward cars, they were normally "Dinoled" to prevent rust
    through.
    
    	I kept my car for six months and put 20K miles on the clock during
    that time, it was a very pleasant car to drive, very pretty, and stuck
    to the road like glue.
    
    	Points to watch out for are, 
    
    	o	Wheel bearings wear out very quickly on these cars, these
    		should be checked on a regular basis. I'm convinced the
    		rapid wear is due to the 195 tyres fitted.
    
    	o	Brake calipers have a tendancy to loose their seals, you
    		start noticing this when the handbrake stops working...
    		take it along to an Alfa dealer and insist that the
    		official recall is applied - I had this done five times
    		in all, at �180 per caliper/labour I told Alfa UK to pay up !
    
    	o	Check that the tyres and wheels are matched, the wheels
    		should be marked "TR" something, and the tyres should be
    		Michelin TRX 195 HR 340, do NOT replace these with cheaper
    		P6s unless you also change the wheels. The lips on the
    		wheels are very different, normal tyres just peel off
    		giving you the opportunity to rearrange local scenery in
    		a spectacular manner. Later cars were all fitted with
    		Pirelli or Michelin low profiles, and had the later
    		wheel design.
    
    	o	If you have TRX tyres on it, order replacements in plenty
    		of time - this tyre size is very rare, only ever fitted
    		to Greencloverleaf Alfas, Renault T2 turbo (front wheels
    		only), and Alpine A310 (also only front wheels)...
    
    	Other than the above I can guarantee you will enjoy the car, they
    really are fun, and I am currently looking for an '85 in white, circa
    �2500 to add to my collection - Offers ?
    
    	Rat

    
    Re.-1
    
    You fitted P6s to TRX wheels????
    
    I've never been to a tyre shop in my life that would do such a thing!

    
    	NO !
    
    	ONLY Michelin TRX tyres should be fitted onto TRX rims, the
    point I was trying to make is that it is exceedingly dangerous to think
    otherwise...! Howevere I have come across two garages to date that
    have attempted this, my mutterings of "manslaughter" did not go down
    well...!
    
    	Rat, sort of ambiguously

    I had an Alfa Sud 1.5 for five years and it only let me down once when 
    something came adrift in the gearbox and I was stuck in fourth.
    
    Insurance group:	5 minimum
    Mileage:		.1 gave the amount you'd expect per year. I guess
    			you didn't mean to ask fuel economy here? No-one
    			buys an Alfa to save petrol but on the other hand
    			mine gave me 30mpg regularly which is surprising
    			considering I thrashed the &*^%$ off it.
    Cost of bits:	Exhausts from Alfa are exhorbitant, but they make
    			the nicest backfiring noises.
    Reliability:	You can always rely on it for and exhilerating
   		 	experience.
    Maintenance:	Alfas eat front brake pads like they're going out
    			of fashion. A new set every 4000-6000 miles is
    			not unusual. Get real Alpha ones, they are softer
    			stop you quicker but wear out quicker.
    Performance:	The engine just begs to be revved harder. Its best
    			in the high revs and some pretty stunning
    			overtaking performance can be had in second or
    			third on a country road. In my experience the
    			overtaking performance betters most contemporary
    			hot hatches but you will be slower from 0-60 due
    			to the narrow power band and close ratio gears 
    			ie you can't get to sixty in second. Some advice to
   			engrave on your brain for the time when you look
    			like overcooking a bend. Put your foot down on the
    			accelerator harder - it goes against instincts but
    			it works. If you took your foot off in this
    			situation you would lose the back.
    
    The body work is a disaster area which has a story behind it, the truth
    of which I'm not sure. I may even have told it in this notesfile yonks
    ago. Rumour has it that when Fiat sold the license to produce the
    Polski Fiat to poland they got paid not in Lira but poor quality Russian 
    steel. This steel was then used to produce the rusty Fiats, Lancias and
    Alfas of the era.
    
    Cheers,
           Mike Collins
    		
     

    re: steel
    
    I read in a magazine that the quality of italian steel was due
    to fluctuations of voltage in their national grid during production.
    
    Chris

    Hi all,
    
    I saw a really nice looking Alfa on the weekend, with a badge on the
    back saying "VOLUMEX", this was the only badge on the car, usual Alfa
    red paintwork, B reg (85).
    Anyone throw any light on what this car was?
    
    Carl
    

    I recall that Lancia used a Volumex supercharger for their 2 litre twin
    cam in the Beta coupe.  

The VOLUMEX was the supercharged version of one of their sportier cars, can't
for the life of me remember what at the moment tho'

Peter

    It looked vaguely like an old Lancia Beta, thinking about it...
    This give any clues?
    
    Carl

    You'd better no waste your money on something which is going to
    depreciate and fall to pieces around you . Buy a nice XR3i instead.
    
    				Geo "Who-hates-dodgy-italian-cars"

    
    Although I like XR3s and the RS Turbo etc the problem with them
    is that everyone has got one. Yes I know, I've been told a million
    times not to exagerate.
    
    Italian cars are prone to rust and it does not come as an optional
    extra. They do have character though and lots of it. If you have
    picked up a solid Italian car like a Lancia Beta coupe for example,
    then you are lucky. Especially if its Rosso Red.
    
    
    Jeff.

    
    re .12 "Italian cars are prone to rust..."
    
    I bet that must be some misconceptions, or at least that must be things
    of the past.
    
    There are a lot more old ( I mean ten years or more) Italian cars
    around than old Japanese cars.  If Italian cars rust more than the
    other makes, than one should expect the situation to be reversed.  Agree?
    

>    There are a lot more old ( I mean ten years or more) Italian cars
>    around than old Japanese cars.  If Italian cars rust more than the
>    other makes, than one should expect the situation to be reversed.  Agree?
 
Possibly because more Italian cars were imported 10 years ago than Japanese
ones? 

As for rusty Japanese cars -- remember that the Japanese like to junk their 
cars as soon as they are a few years old, so body longevity never used to be 
(still isn't, for domestic markets) a major concern. This has changed in 
recent years where Westerners have been buying Japanese cars and wanting to 
keep them longer than 2 or 3 years.

John

    Also, I believe, any Italian cars that are old are by definition
    the ones that got a reasonable paint job in the factory. Survival
    of the fittest. (Thanks Mr Darwin !)
    
    Rich.

    Japan has a very expensive (#850, I think) MOT type test at (again, I
    think) 2.5 - 3 year intervals. Worth it for a 2.5 - 3 year old car.
    Less so for a 5 - 6 year old car. Thus the four year new model cycle,
    and the lack of importance of longevity.
    
    Add to that the relatively benign climate with the concomitant lack of
    salt on roads in Japan...
    
    Steve

    
    'Great car, shame about the rust' is what many people think about the
    ALFASUD.
    
    In fact, you'll be hard-pressed to find a rusty ALFA of any description
    built after 1982.  So much did quality improve since then.  I believe
    one needs to know better about the history of ALFASUD (production) to
    get rid of the 'ALFA-equals-rust' myth or misconception.
    
    Early ALFASUDs were revolutionary in more ways than just their
    engineering - they were the first mass-market ALFA of all, and the
    first cars to be built in a brand new factory in southern Italy.  (SUD
    is south in the Italian.  Get it?)  With so much to learn about the car
    and the best ways to produce it, quality of some cars from the 1970s
    was not always brilliant; it was a huge task for ALFA ROMEO to work
    with new labour (who were mostly unemployed) and materials (such as
    Russian steel).
    
    While the 'ALFA-equals-rust' myth may linger on, one should not have
    much difficulty finding a sound condition post-1982 model ALFASUD or
    its spin-off sister car, the SPRINT coupe.
    
    P.S. There is a British publication entitled "The ALFASUD" writen by
    David Owen, an Alfista (i.e. ALFA enthusiast) and an established writer
    on ALFA cars, that is worth reading if you are very interested to know
    more about the car. 
    
    

    Well, two years on from the last reply to this topic I'm wondering if
    anybody out there is still running a Sprint.
    
    I've got one which I have had for almost three years, and, until now it
    has been a very enjoyable car to own/drive. However, all of a sudden
    water has started to pour in when it rains. Last thursdatys continuous
    rain completely filled up the glove compartment ! I am intending to
    remove the complete dash-assembly to try and see where the water is
    getting in as it is not immediately obvious. Water also seems to have
    got inside the rear panel (next to the back seat) and the sunroof drips
    on the front seats !
    
    Can anybody shed any light on the glove box filling up ? The front
    doors seem to channel water along the top and down into the hinge
    assembly (Brilliant design !). Could it be getting into the car from
    here ?
    
    Any information gratefully received
    
    Steve.

    The water was entering via a rusted out battery shelf and its
    attachement to the bulkhead (that is why it entered the glove box). 
    The other problem was due to a window not sealing correctly,
    investigation showed that the drain pipe was blocked owing to rust
    entering the pipe.
    
    It is still a nice runner though and drives like a dream for those who
    have the requistite driving style to appreciate such a car.  
    
    Beware ANSA exhausts though, less than 7,000 miles found mine with a
    hole in the exhaust, which I do not finmd acceptable.
    
    End