Conference terri::cars_uk

    Olaf,
    
    I have an Apline set-up myself and can vouch for the quality. You
    can get quite a nice set for �180, however you won't have 2x20watts,
    you will only get 2x6watts. It all depends and what you want. Do
    you - as the driver (& front passenger - want the best sound, or an 
    overall good sound, for both driver,front passenger and rear
    passengers. If it is the latter then i suggest going for a Pioneer.
    They do good models in this range that need no extra add-ons (ie
    amp), that would probably get you 2x25watts. I myself had a good
    Pioneer (until it went walkies in the night), then changed to the
    Alpine. If you want the best sound in the front then go for a bottom
    of the range Alpine, add a 2 way divider and get some good bass
    speakers, add an amp and away you go. You can do this with any set
    but Alpine concentrate more on quality than output (thats why the
    set is only 2x6watts) on their bottom of the range sets.
    
    Most Alpine dealers do 2nd hand sets (because bottom of the range sets
    don't have the cd shuttle options and many people upgrade to this).
    
    If you want to go all 2nd hand then this is what you could get:
    
    Set 		�100
    Amp 		�25
    2 way divider       �30
    			----
    			�155
    
    This would only leave you with the speakers. I wouldn't suggest
    getting 2nd hand speakers. These are going to be the only extra
    you will need. Will cost approx �60-�80. So it's up to you.
    
    If you want a plain good stereo with 2x20 then Pioneer's the one.
    Although, Panasonic are coming out with some good sets now.
    
    Let me know what you got...
    
    Lewis.

    Go for Alpine. Mine is a 7279L I think, costs around #230, is a
    pull-out model, and is 25w x 25w. Sound is brilliant. I use Maxcell
    crome cassettes - they also make 100 minute tapes which are very
    handy for slightly longer cd's.              
    I run mine with 4 (pioneer) speakers, which it is designed to do.
    The unit can be expanded later with amps etc.
    
    (My previous was a Pioneer, and was c$@p.)
    
    Best advice is find a shop that will demo one for you.
     
    Rich.

    Hello Olaf,
                                               
    I have a MK1 Golf, but I think that the map pocket speaker sizes
    are the same in the latest version.  Kenwood do some 'drop in' 2-way
    coaxial oval shaped speakers which should fit in your map pockets'
    grills.
                                   
    There are no visible modifications to the door trim, but I did have
    to cut about an inch into the spare metalwork around the inner door
    skin (this is insignificant structually, honest!).  This was to
    allow for the significantly larger magnets.
                                                           
    They cost about �40 and handle about 45watts peak, which should
    be ideally suited to a 20watts per channel output unit.
                             
    The treble/middle sound from them is infinately better than line
    fit speakers (usually dual cone jobbies).  The bass is much better
    because of the larger magnets.                         
                                                           
    However, to put these in perspective with what you can have if you
    are willing to find a hole in you door trim. A friend on mine has just 
    fitted a pair of round 6 inch 2-way coaxial Infinity 'Kappas'.  These 
    are about �110 per pair, I know it's a lot for front speakers but he 
    doesn't want to hack the back shelf up (and buy a beefy amp), so he 
    put all his speaker budget into the front.
                                                           
    They are in a fiesta.  The bass from them is very solid, although
    a touch boomy, which you don't get with larger back shelf speakers
    (eh, Lewis!).  He is driving them with a Kenwood 545L unit (same 
    as mine), equivalent to about �200 in the current range.  The stereo
    imaging from these speakers (which are about elbow height, at the
    front of the doors) is quite stunning.
                  
    You can see that I have opted for the cowardly 'no holes in the
    door trim' option.  And put rather large speakers and power into
    my back shelf.  The bass is much better, but if you fade forward
    so that the front speaker's stereo positioning can be appreciated,
    it get just too loud before the rears are being driven hard enough
    for optimum low frequency bass.
                                             
    If you intend to listen to tapes, you should remember that if you
    can't record a decent tape at home, don't go above your initial
    budget for the car.  If you do then you will have wasted a bit of
    your hard earned.  (yes, you guessed it I don't rate those 2-3x speed
    dubbed pre-recorded ferric/cheap chrome things you can buy in Our
    Price, Listen, HMV, etc.!)
    
    Sorry to talk about equipment above your stated budget, but I wish
    someone had stated this lot to me before I started down your exact
    same route.  I also saw a brilliant statement somewhere in this
    conference...
    
    "If you can't afford it, don't listen to it"
    
    Rob.

The front speakers in the Mk2 Golf are on top of the dash.  This is OK for the
treble but not so good for the bass response.  Four speakers with some good
low end performance in the back ones seems like a good idea.

Mike.

My car radio cost �20, the speakers a further �6.  It's not hi-fi by any stretch
of the imagination, but it provides acceptable "background" music, which is all
I want when driving.  If I was concentrating on all that wonderful low-end
response from the rear speakers, while marvelling at the stereo treble coming
from the front, I might forget about the job in hand (ie driving).

There's so much background noise (tyres, engine, wind, and if you're in Warren's
car unpleasant knocking noises from the engine (sorry Warren :-)) that I don't
think a good hi-fi can be appreciated in a car.  Unless you crank it up really
high (together with the rear suspension; the two usually go hand in hand,
particularly on MkI escorts...), in which case it lowers your driving
concentration.

So my radio hisses a bit and doesn't have ideal frequency response, but these
faults are the first to be smothered by car noise.  I'll save my money for a
decent hi-fi in the living room...

I suppose purists might say the drone of the engine is the best "music", and a
radio just interferes with its dulcet tones!

Just my humble personal opinion, FWIW.

Scott.

    re last
    
    good hifi certainly can be appreciated in a car - of course it depends
    which car. Obviously the quieter the better, but a good sound will
    sound better than a poor sound in any car. Also a good hifi will
    be much less tireing (sp?) on the ears than a lowfi cranked up with
    distortion etc etc.
    These days a good hifi can be set up in your car from a little as
    #200-#300 (pounds).
    
    One drawback
    ============
    
    A good hifi unit will mercylessly expose poorly recorded tapes -
    mine did !
    
    Rich

>>as little as �200 - �300

-that's more than my car, its insurance and six months tax cost me!!!!!!

For general info: as money is quoted a lot in this conference, you can get a
pound sign on a VTxxx by pressing COMPOSE, then the letter l, then hyphen.

On a workstation, press COMPOSE and the space bar together (in the same way you
press SHIFT and a letter to get a capital), then l-

Anyone know why COMPOSE doesn't work "normally" on a workstation?

Scott.

    Ouch!...... was that a rathole I just felt?

    I think theres room for an otter in that one....

    Please come back to the original theme; ratholes remind me too much
    of the Renault 5 I drove some years ago.
    Thanks for the interesting suggestions.
    Could those of you, recommending Alpine and Pioneer give me the
    exact names of the models You mean (some already did).
    
    Regards,
    
    Olaf.
    
    
    P.S  Neil, you are really supporting almost everything, are you!?

    Olaf,
    
    Regarding Alpine. Even if you buy 2nd hand there's not many set's
    you could get. I myself have the 7179l model (bottom of the range)
    and somebody else replied they had the 7279l. This is the modern
    equivalent of my set. These are both in the region of �220 new.
    
    re; a few back.
    
    My friend got a nice Panasonic(2nd hand), and i gave him some 'old' 
    speakers.He fitted this in his Renault 5 and this gave him a *really* 
    good sound for �60. Best thing to do is to go into a dealer, say
    'look i have �xxx, what can you supply?'. ALL alpine dealers will
    have a computerised display with *every* available speaker with
    many combinations.
    
    Lewis.
    
    P.S Don't get anything that looks too flashy or it'll attract unwanted
    attention !
    
    Good luck.

RE: 997.11

� ALL alpine dealers will have a computerised display with *every*
� available speaker with many combinations.

Can't quite visualise this. Is it some sort of CAD display showing a piccy of
your car, and the speakers fitting in?

Mark.

    re; -1
    
    No what they have is a cabinet full of all the speakers, and the
    untis in the centre. The computer terminal is then just in front
    of the cabinet. All amps and diving systems are underneath the 
    display.
    
    +-------------------------------------------------------------+
    | +-----+ +---+ +----+ +------+ +------+ +----+ +---+ +-----+ |
    | |     | |   | |    | |      | |      | |    | |   | |     | |
    | |     | +---+ |    | |      | |      | |    | +---+ |     | |
    | +-----+       |    | |      | |      | |    |       +-----+ |
    |               +----+ +------+ +------+ +----+               |
    | +---------+ +------+ +---------------+ +------+ +---------+ |
    | |         | |      | |  In here are  | |      | |         | |
    | |         | |      | |  all the sets | |      | |         | |
    | |         | +------+ |  available.   | +------+ |         | |
    | |         | +-+ +--+ |               | +--+ +-+ |         | |
    | +---------+ +-+ +--+ +---------------+ +--+ +-+ +---------+ |
    |             +---------------------------------+             |
    | +---+ ++    |                                 |    ++ +---+ |
    | +---+ ++    |     Select your speaker         |    ++ +---+ |
    |             |     combination on screen.      |             |
    | +------+    |                                 |    +------+ |
    | |      |    |                                 |    |      | |
    | +------+    +---------------------------------+    +------+ |
    |            / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \            |
    |           /  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  \           |
    |          ---------Keyboard------------------------          |
    
          Below are all the amp/dividing network systems.
         .                   .                .               .
         .                   .                .               .
         .                   .                .               .
         .                   .                .               .
    |                                                             |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------+
    

    Stand well back and listen to your favorite grooves.
    
    Good thing about the place i go, they're all youngish so UP that
    volume, and that bass !
    
    The difference between this and normal displays is that you can
    have any combination of low/mid/high range speakers together with
    tape/dat/cd players. Of course all the remote units are included.
    
    If you go, have fun ;-)
    
    Lewis

Re -1 >>    Stand well back and listen to your favorite grooves.
    
       That's OK in the shop, but how do you stand well back when you get
       the rig in your car?

       It seems to me, the only valid way to test the outfit is to put it
       in the accoustic environment for which it is intended.

       Ian.

    The better it sounds in the shop, the better it'll sound in your
    car - surely.
    I agree with the Alpine freaks, they sound great - however they
    where out of my budget range when I bought mine, so I got a JVC
    - �175 (not incl. speakers), it sounded better than the equivalently
    priced Pioneer, Panasonic stuff - and with more features, and not
    too flashy. Pitty I can't remember the model, it got nicked 2 months
    after I got it - so nowadays I make do with my own dulcit tones,
    and a hole in my facia.
    A.

    The display in the shop caters for all tastes of music. Whether
    it be Heavy Metal, Classical, Soul, Pop... 
    
    The speakers are not catered for one taste (as with pioneer, etc...),
    i mean that if you're into rock, then suddenly (heaven forbid!)
    turn to a classical lover, then the speakers can handle both ranges
    - whereas if you buy other speakers (pioneer, etc...), you useally
    get asked 'What kind of music does sir like' - 'Rock' - 'Oh well
    in that case the 2347pq's are very nice, or we have the...'
    
    I agree that the sound is *very* different in the car, but as the
    previous reply states 'If it sounds better in the shop then it'll
    sound better in your car'
    
    Later,
    
    Lewis.

    
    Hi there !
    
    Just wanted to let You know what I've bought at last.
    It's a Blaupunkt Coburg (about DM 450.-),
    20X20W, autoreverse, fader, 24 fixed stations, travel-store (means
    You can get the six main frequencies around with one button),quick-
    out, code, travel-ARI (if You driven out of the range of the 'traffic-
    news-station' You have stored, while listening to a cassette, it
    searches for a new station with traffic news itself);
    and it sounds quite good !
    
    Thanks again (I'll keep Alpine in my mind);
    
    Olaf.                     

    Any 1996 updates to the recommendations in this note?
    
    Is it still Alpine, and maybe JVC, Pioneer or Blaupunkt? How about
    Sony, Boss etc?
    
    I'm looking for a cassette/radio between �100 and �200, but until you
    get it in the car you don't know how well it's going to pick up weak FM
    stations.
    
    I've been to two shops where they have the multi-radio/multi-speaker
    display but, because they didn't have a decent aerial, they could only
    pick up 210FM. This is no test at all, I would be suspicious of a
    toaster that couldn't pick up 210FM in the Reading area.
    
    All I want is a reasonable cassette transport (probably asking a lot in
    this price range though) and a good sensitive FM tuner (capable of
    Radio 3, Radio Oxford etc in the Reading area). RDS maybe, but
    not if it compromised the previous two in this price range.
    
    Dick

    I've always had / used Alpine car radios in various guises. I've never
    had any problems with the radio section (which is a common chip set
    shared between the most of their units) I can pick up 210 from Guilford
    to down in the Solent without any problem. (I can even listen to
    Capital FM down in the Solent - just about). However the quality and
    placement for your aerial will probable have a marked effect on the
    reception you get.
    
    Rik - on his 4th Alpine