Conference terri::cars_uk

It seems to have been years since anyone updated this note!

I cannot believe the last comment,  the Monza is an affordable GT in the true
sense of the word 'Gran Turissimo'.

Somebody else in DEC must like them?

_Richard

� It seems to have been years since anyone updated this note!
    
    Err. 1992 - 1989 = 3. Well, my maths makes it 3 years! :^)
    
    Monzas are, and always were in the UK, rare cars. They never caught the 
    British mood somehow. Capri 3 litres were much loved and even the
    Senator (the Monza's saloon brother) sold fairly well, but the big,
    heavy 3 litre Coupe just didn't catch on.
    
    It always looked like a big hatchback Manta to me, and I was never a
    fan of the hatchback variant. Reports at the time were usually quite
    complimentary - I recall one saying that the Monza GS/E was a car for
    hot hatch owners to aspire to, but nothing seemed to spark the
    imagination and they remained a rare sight.
    
    Of course, by modern standards the Monza is a dinosaur with gas
    guzzling nature and poor performance by modern day coupe standards.
    
    Mark

Mark

Well,  arithmetic was never one of my strong points ;-)

As for being a dinosaur,  there are many 3 litre six cylinder machines out there
today,  Toyota Supra etc...

140mph (135-137 in reality)
0-60 About 8.5 I think
35mpg at 60mph
26mpg at 90mph+ cruising
180bhp + 177lbf of torque

Are these the statistics of a dinosaur?

The pre GS/E's were patchy and not much fun,  but they are cheap '81 onwards 
with the new dash etc...

I always preferred the manta coupe shape,  now if that car had the 3.0l engine
and some sorted suspension,  then what a hot hatch beater that would have been.

_Richard

1984 Opel/Vauxhall 3.0CD Senator Auto
1987 Vauxhall 3.0 Police Senator

BTW:  As you can see, I like the Senator,  when this is tweaked it becomes quite
a Q car.

�I always preferred the manta coupe shape,  now if that car had the 3.0l engine
�and some sorted suspension,  then what a hot hatch beater that would have been.
    
    I dislike the Manta hatch shape, but do like the coupe (biased, I own one).
    
    As for the Monza, I had considered getting one of them, but when I was
    looking, all I could find were automatic versions.
    
    For the Manta to be a hot-hatch beater, it only needs a small increase
    in power (well, torque to be precise) - the 2.2 engine does that
    (again, biased here as I have one).  The suspension is quite basic
    but does work quite well (stiffer dampers and springs help here).
    
    With regard the 3.0 litre engine, this has been fitted by a few different
    people (it even fits the GT/E Getrag gearbox, but don't expect it to last).
    
    If you are considering rebuilding one of these 6-cylinder engines, it
    may be worth your while speaking to EARS (sorry, not got the number here)
    as they know lots about GM engines and have run adverts quoting that
    you can have 'Cosworth-type performance' from your Monza.  The work was
    not cheap, but decent performance hardly ever is.  They also do 2.2 and
    2.4 litre variants of the Manta engine.  They do sell the required parts
    for these conversions, as well as doing the work on your car if you choose.
    
    J.R.

Intriguing that the 5 speed manta fits,  it makes some sense as the 3.0 is just a 2.0
with two extra cylinders,  everything else looks the same.  I used to have a 2.0S
Berlina Ascona,  so most things are very familiar.

I didn't know that EARS did work for Monza/Senator,  the only choices so far have 
been Irmscher/Torque Developments,  and Irmscher have already taken lots of money
from me for exhaust and steering wheel.

I would like to uprate the suspension somewhat,  even in Police trim the car drifts
out of corners and rolls far too much for comfort,  it sounds like new springs
and Konis are in order,  just hope my insurance company can take the strain :-(

The Monza GS/E with 5 Speed Getrag is currently the holy grail of Monza owners,  
I have seen examples sold for up to 9000 recently (v.low mileage and immaculate) a 
more average price is approx 5000/6000 for D or E reg.  The optional 15" wheels make
a very big difference to the handling,  I have compared GS/E with 14" 195/70 and
15" 205/60 and the difference was incredible,  I certainly wouldn't mind some new
alloys (Bank Manager take note!)

I recently saw a Monza GS/E turbo,  the plumbing was horrendous,  the claims from 
the owner were even more so!  I would like to have tried it out.

Of course if you are after rare cars,  try the 4x4 Monza or Senator,  these were
converted by Ferguson and are extremely rare,  the club has approx 4 in 'captivity'.

.... and even a convertible GS/E,  two prototypes exist and one is rumoured to be
somewhere in the UK.  Oh for a link to DVLC for database searches ;-)

_Richard

I just spoke to Ears,  nothing doing for Monza/Senator,  all they could do is
sell me a camshaft,  which undoubtedly is from Irmscher or Piper.

All of these changes because I hate small cars,  and hate being passed by them
even more ;-)  There used to be a time when 130mph was enough to see of most
'ordinary' cars,  nowadays you need 150mph to do that :-(

It is looking like a new engine (1250+vat) no, they are not normally that price, the
usual price is 3650+vat,  however I know where some crated and unused engines are,
combine that with a Torque Developments head/cam (600+vat),  now that should do the 
trick,  and probably break the gearbox/diff!

_Richard (150+ mph or death by embarrasment)

�                           -< Ears....Not listening >-
    
    Strange, I know that they used to advertise uprated Monza engines,
    probably at least a year ago.  As for the cam being an Irmscher or Piper
    item, I don't doubt that they do sell them, but they used to have their
    own cam profiles ground (or so they claimed).  Dunno if they still do.
    
    One very small component that they used to fit to the 2.0 and 1.9 CIH
    head, which is just as likely to apply to the six-cylinder version, is
    a spacer - shaped not unlike an inverted top hat - that is inserted
    into the rear oil drain hole in the head (under the camshaft).  The
    purpose of this is to simply form an 'oil bath' for the camshaft, to
    reduce wear on this item (wouldn't improve matters for your engine
    using oil if valve guides are worn, though).
    
    You could make on yourself, if you have access to a lathe, I could
    try and enter a better description if you are interested.
    
    I have got a couple of different four-cylinder heads of this type at home,
    but I don't think any of them (that are not on top of an engine) have got
    one of these fitted, so I cannot provide measurements.
    
    J.R.

Oil bath,  sounds a good idea,  although I do run Mobil 1 in this car,  and there
is no evidence of wear,  the problems that I am having with engines are on an
automatic 3.0CD which is soon to be sold.

I would like a new engine for this car though,  it is prudent to have a strong 
bottom-end before squeezing more out of the head on a 100K miles plus car.

Ears seemed much more concerned about Fords,  how low can you get!

_Richard

BTW: Didn't Sprintex do entertaining supercharger kits etc...?

�Ears seemed much more concerned about Fords,  how low can you get!

    I know this is how they started off.  Then they got some sense and
    moved onto GM products, perhaps they've reverted to what sells most ?
    
    They have also been advertising for Jeep (real ones) parts, but as I
    haven't bought an off-roader mag for a while I don't know if they still do.
    
    I take it you do know what 'EARS' stands for :-
    
    	Escort And Rally Spares !!!
    
    They have also advertised various parts/mods for BMW-engined cars.
    

�BTW: Didn't Sprintex do entertaining supercharger kits etc...?

    That's what I had read.  I have a mag at home which featured a Manta
    with a *huge* arched body kit (why, oh why) from Ireland that had a
    3.0 litre Monza engine fitted, which [I think] had twin Sprintex
    superchargers fitted to it.  Sounds potent to me !!!
    
    J.R.

> �BTW: Didn't Sprintex do entertaining supercharger kits etc...?

>    That's what I had read.  I have a mag at home which featured a Manta
>    with a *huge* arched body kit (why, oh why) from Ireland that had a
>    3.0 litre Monza engine fitted, which [I think] had twin Sprintex
>    superchargers fitted to it.  Sounds potent to me !!!

Is that the issue with the title "Preying Manta!"

I remember that, most GM people do,  it was totally outrageous with water injection
etc... Sounds like my sort of car ;-)

I guess there is no substitute for cubic inches and forced induction,  you can keep
your Japanese swiss watch engines,  they might be efficient,  however I like to 
tinker,  and it looks like tinkering is verboten on these newer cars.

The major downer on all of this is that the insurers hate me for being under 30 with 
a 3.0l car,  and once I start making major mods I guess we will fall out very badly!

BTW: Autobahnstormers (Senator/Monza Club) will be at Guildford, I will be on the 
stand with Police car on Sunday,  see you there?

The Autobahnstormers are real friendly with OOC,  it looks like a merger is happening
so watch out for more 3.0 Mantas using all those spare engines/gearboxes that we have
got in the club.  Yum Yum,  I could be tempted back to a Manta yet!

�BTW: Autobahnstormers (Senator/Monza Club) will be at Guildford, I will be on the 
�stand with Police car on Sunday,  see you there?
    
    If you mean the Show at Loseley, then I expect to go on Sunday,
    (with my Alfa GTV6) but I'm not sure just yet.
    
    J.R.

It is unlikely that there will be two shows in Guildford.

Probably see you there on Sunday..........White Senator on Autobahnstormers stand.

_Richard

�White Senator on Autobahnstormers stand.
    
    I saw the car there, but I thought yours was a Monza, so didn't stop
    for a chat...  Can't say I was too impressed with the whole affair.
    
    J.R.

    > for a chat...  Can't say I was too impressed with the whole affair.
    
I wasn't too impressed,  however I did meet the driver for the Chief Constable of
Thames Valley,  I managed to extract lots of inside information.  That was the only
hightlight of the day ;-(

Mine was the Senator,  you wouldn't catch me dead in a pearlescent paint Monza!

I am looking for an immaculate Monza,  budget permitting.

_Richard