Conference 7.286::home_work

    Fred,
    
    FWIW, I rented a power washer (1500 psi, I think) before I stained our
    house last year.  It was gas-powered, with 4 different nozzle
    attachments...pulsing, light, heavy, and super.  All I used was the
    heavy nozzle, from a slight angle (experiment).  I tried the super
    nozzle to see how powerful it really was...when it blew apart a cedar
    shingle, I went back to the heavy one.
    
    The house is a cape, about 26'x 40', that hadn't been painted in
    probably 15 years.  The cedar shingles were chalky white and
    alligatored.  In about 4 hours, with minimal scraping and
    wire-brushing, the house, other than being wet, was ready to stain.
    
    Just make sure it's a warm day, because you'll get drenched...
    
      

I was just reading the Time-Life book on painting and the section on power
washing.  It said to wash from top down, and then rinse from top-down.  You're
supposed to let the cleaning solution "soak" for 10-15 minutes.  It suggested
that a typical 1-story house would take 2 hours.

Do use bleach on the mildew, and TSP is good to mix in if you can.  Bleach
isn't necessary if there's no mildew.

Make sure you cover any plants at the base of the house before starting.
Bleach and/or TSP will kill them.

			Steve

    Re direction of washing:
    
    The Family Handyman says you should wash from bottom to top and
    rinse from top to bottom.  The reasoning for the wash direction
    is that it minimizes streaking when the solution drips/runs down
    onto siding which hasn't been washed.
    
    So, you have two recommendations; top down and bottom up.  Guess
    you flip a coin . . .

    Re .3
    
      .3 Makes sence.  I know somone who does this before he paints,
      He is a professional painter.
    
      Thats exactly the approach he uses.  Bottom up then Top down.
    
    FYI, David 

If you're prepping to paint, does minimal streaking matter all that much?
If cleaning aluminum siding, then I would start from the bottom because I
did experience streaking when I did it from the top.

    A presure washer works great - I own a 4k psi unit that I use all the
    time - don't get anything less than a 3k unit - wash with TSP/Bleach - 
    then paint/Stain - works great on the house - might take from 2 to 4
    hours depending on how stubborn your mildew is...
    
    

    An update to my basenote:
    
    I wound up renting a 1500psi unit for 1/2 day (8-12) over Memorial Day
    weekend, and was able to complete the house in about 2 1/2 hrs. The
    unit came with an extension wand, plus 4 different tips: 0,15,20 & ??
    degrees. I mainly stayed with the 15, except for the peaks of the side
    walls where I switched to the 0. Used a mix of TSP and bleach, and it
    did a super job. In a couple of spots where it wouldn't be too obvious,
    I used the 0-degree tip on some lower spots. The combination of the 
    1500psi and the 0-degree tip was amazing...blew the stain away right
    down to bare wood!
    
    When I finished with the house, I used the remaining time to clean the
    P/T deck as well as the concrete steps and flagstone walk. Word of
    caution: high-pressure washing will blow out any loose or otherwise
    weak mortar between the flagstones. Now I've got another project on my
    list..:^(  
    
    I even tried using the rig to wash the patio furniture. Big mistake, as 
    even the 15-degree tip tended to rip the 6-yr old cushions. The
    0-degree tip blew a hole right through it!  
    
    All-in-all, I felt it was well worth the money, and was very easy to do.
    Thanks for all the suggestions/replies to my original note.
    
    Freddie
    

 RE. -1

 Hi,

 I too would like to paint my aluminum siding. But first it needs to be cleaned
since there is a powder/residue on the siding. Did you have this problem, and did
the power washing remove it?

-bob

    Re: .8
    
    Sorry, but I wasn't washing aluminum siding...I was working on
    rough-sawn pine board & batten siding, so I can't give you much advice.
    According to an article I read in Handyman magazine, however, power
    washing does a good job of removing the powder/residue. Maybe another
    noter can share some first-hand experience...
    
    Freddie

 RE -.1 Sorry about that. Thanks for you help though!

 Has anyone used one of these power washes on alumumin siding? My main question
is will I have to re-wash by hand and brush to get the remaining powder off?

-bob

    When using bleach or TSP solution, isn't all plant life around the base
    of the structure being cleaned killed?
    
    						Bob...

Maybe not killed, but certainly damaged, which is why the instructions
tell you to cover any plants which could get sprayed or dripped on.

			Steve

    
    
    Is it best to power wash or scrape first? 
    
    How long after powerwashing, can/should you paint?  I would think it'd
    need a couple of weeks to get sufficiently dry, yes?
    
    thank you
    
    -John

    From what I've read and experienced, I suggest powerwashing before 
    scraping. You may find that the washing will remove as much, if not 
    more, of the old paint, than if you had done it by hand. You may not
    even need to scrape once you've washed, or at least, you'll reduce the
    amount of scraping to those stubborn or hard-to-reach spots.
    
    Also, I waited one week between washing and staining my house.
    Everything seemed sufficiently dry, even the north side of the house 
    which sees zero direct sun during the day.	
    
    Good luck...
    
    Freddie

Re: .17

What do you use and where do you get it? 

	Steve

    is it advisable to just power wash without planning to re-stain just
    to get rid of mildew, etc. ?
    
    also, to have this done professionally as i see advertised....what
    are the going rates ?
    
    thanks.

    I just had this done.  And although the house looks GREAT by comparison
    (I had forgotten how light gray the house really was), close inspection
    shows that it does need another coat of stain.  This is mainly because
    the pigment in semi-transparent and solid stain stays on the surface, as 
    opposed to transparent stain, where the pigment penetrates. 
    
    The first time our house was done, the trim was stained blue-gray, the
    body was gray.  When it was pressure washed, there was hardly any color
    difference, so we went with all one color (which is lots cheaper than
    having the trim painted a different color).  At that time, the house had 
    gone so long without staining, it needed two coats, as the first kinda 
    dissappeared into the wood (even the first coat covered all noticable 
    traces of the color difference between the blue and the gray).
    
    Due to mildew, and a new porch, we are getting our small cape washed and 
    sprayed with one coat on the body, 2 coats on the new screen porch, and 
    the interior of the porch sealed for $1900, not including stain and sealer.
    We are having the same people do it as did our house last time.  Matt 
    Palmucci, in Littleton, Ma 508-486-3525.  He also did my neighbor's house, 
    and a Deccie friend, based on my recommendation.  All are very satisfied.  
    
    						-JP

    Did I also mention that he's real honest.  Me, my neighbor, and the
    friend all gave him unlimited access to the house while we were at
    work. 
    				-JP

    The going rate varies due to the size and condition of the surface
    to be cleaned but in general it costs $150 for a small house and $250
    for a large one.....Call   Bud's @ (617)259-8937  He does an EXCELLENT
    proffesional job and gives free estimates...I highly recommend him...

    
    I read in here to use "TSP".  What is TSP?
    

    Dwight -
    	TSP is Tri Sodium Phosphate. (the active ingerdient in
    Spic 'n' Span, for instance.)
    	Dick
    

You can buy full-strength TSP at hardware stores, except in states which
ban it (some do.)  Spic'N'Span doesn't have much TSP.

			Steve

    My house has cedar clapboards that were covered with CWF several years
    ago.  In some places water splashback has turned the wood grey.  A
    painter I talked with suggested that power washing would return the
    original cedar color.  Can anyone confirm this?  

    Thanks

    Ken
    

    Re: .26
    
    The original color will be possible, if you remove the stained part.
    I.E. remove wood.
    
    If the power washing restores the color, it does it by removing wood.
    
    I wouldn't.....paint or stain it.
    
    Marc H.

    
    If the wood is only discolored where there is splash back you 
    might get away with just using a good restorer. My previous 
    house had redwood siding that would turn grey-black wherever
    water constantly splashed on it (where the deck met the house
    and where the drip line was close enough to the siding). A
    good scrubbing with a product like DEKS Wood returned it to
    its natural color.
    
    If the color change is due to fading, you'll have to remove wood.
    
    							- Mac

    
      The wood that has changed color has done so due to bleaching and/or
    mildewing of the wood itself. Power washing will not be *able* to
    change the color unless it is done hard enough to remove the discolored
    wood. As some previous replies stated, a wood restorer will very likely
    help, maybe even getting you all the way back to the original wood
    color. Check them out, but be a little careful, there are a few
    different types and some use fairly nasty chemicals.
    
    				Kenny

   I did exactly what you are proposing and the deck & fences came out GREAT...
You do remove some wood, but unless you are careless it is a very thin, even
layer. 

   A year later the gray color is back due to the weathering and bleaching
by the sun, but if your goal is to restore the original color and then do a
decent job of preserving it (the step I left out), go for it.  The other side
effect I noticed on my deck is that because I had blasted the soft wood
surfaces, I had a problem with splinters. 


   Would I do it again?
                 In a heartbeat.

   Would I do anything different?
		I would complete the job by appying a good preservative as soon
                as the wood dried.

Al

    re: .30
    
    First had experience -- great!  You talk about doing deck and fences,
    did you do cedar clapboards too?  What kind of finish did the wood
    have after washing.  I have the rough sides out now, and wouldn't 
    want to have them end up smooth.
    
    Ken

<                       -< What was texture after wash? >-
<
<    First had experience -- great!  You talk about doing deck and fences,
<    did you do cedar clapboards too?  What kind of finish did the wood
<    have after washing.  I have the rough sides out now, and wouldn't 
<    want to have them end up smooth.
    
    I did not do clapboards as my house is stucco.  I did not do cedar, my deck
and fences are redwood.

    Although most of the boards were fine, I found the softer redwood boards to
have a rough-sawn texture when I was done, particularly when I got the spray
too close to the wood. Oh by the way YOU control how much damage gets done by
moving the nozzle closer to or farther from the wood surface.  I used the "fan"
nozzle (similar to a paint sprayer's pattern.) I found the stream nozzle did
way too much damage.  It's a tradeoff as to how completely the old finish comes
off in a single pass vs how rough the resulting wood is when you're done. You
start from 3' and work your way in until you get the finish off.  The rest of
the day you work at that distance. You'll get the hang of it in no time... 
I also found it advantageous to wet down the surfaces about 10 min before I
started to take off the old finish.  It seemed to soften the surface.

    I used a 1500 lb pressure wash and found I could do about 10 sqft/min.

    What's the worst case scenario,  you'll rent the washer, do a small area.
If you can't control the amount of damage and still get the old finish off,
then you're out $60 or so for the rental of the power washer...  Clean the
driveway, the car, the eves...

    What's the cost of your alternatives???

Al

    Again, thanks for the details.  I wasn't sure if I could in fact remove
    just some of the wood or if I'd end up as another noter mentioned,
    removing entire clapboards.
    
    
>    What's the worst case scenario,  you'll rent the washer, do a small area.
>If you can't control the amount of damage and still get the old finish off,
>then you're out $60 or so for the rental of the power washer...  Clean the
>driveway, the car, the eves...

>    What's the cost of your alternatives???
    
    I could either treat the wood chemically and then paint/stain, or just
    skip the wood cleaner step.  I have some Behr wood preservative with
    tint that goes a long way toward hiding the color difference in the
    clapboards now, but I know it would look better if I could get a better
    color match before applying it. 
    
    I'll give the power washer a try, if not just because I think it would
    be fun to use :-)  As for washing the car, do these washers have a 
    controllable pressure, or do I have to be careful there too?  Does
    anyone have any idea of what the flow and pressure is of the wands in
    your average car wash?
    
    Ken
    
    

<    be fun to use :-)  As for washing the car, do these washers have a 
<    controllable pressure, or do I have to be careful there too?  Does
<    anyone have any idea of what the flow and pressure is of the wands in
<    your average car wash?

     The unit I used had no "control" per-se.
    
     The pressure right at the nozzle is intense (it will cut you), but by the
time you get 6 inches from the nozzle the pressure has been reduced to the
point where it only stings...  My point being if you stand 10' away from the
car when you run the powerwasher (fan nozzle here) teh car will get wet, but you
won't clean very much...


     YOU control the pressure by controlling the distance between the nozzle 
and the work surface.

     You have complete control...

Al

    	My out-laws (out of state in-laws ;-) just power washed their deck
    and it came out pretty good. There is a tendancy, it seems, to make the
    deck more splinter prone though. This was an older deck that had greyed
    badly. 
    	
    	Ditto on the control and ability of the sprayer to cut you. My
    father-in-law went halves on the rental cost with a neighbor and they
    were easily able to do both of their decks in a day.
    
    	I have some friends that went the chemical route. They used
    something to clean the deck first, and then applied a tan colored
    stain/preservative. The results were also good. My friends deck was
    newer than my out-laws deck so the wood itself was in a little better
    condition to start with.
    
    	Ray

    RE: .35
    
    I would just use a grey stain.
    
    Marc H.

    
    I saw a ad on TV the other night about a product from Armor-All.
    
    It was used with a hose and its used to clean vinyl siding ... It says
    you only need a garden hose to spray it on, let it sit for awhile and
    rinse off.
    
    Has anybody used this ?    Is there a better product ?
    
    Thanks!

    I use a similar procedure, but easier.  I just hose the house with
    water, no cleaner.  Works well!  Mark

	I was thinking of having my house power washed this fall
	and probably having it re-stained next summer.    There's mildew
	along a lot of the trim and lightly on some of the body.  There's
	a couple of peeling spots on body.  (house is cedar siding; solid 
	oil stain; smooth side out).

	I am in the process of getting estimates, but I got conflicting opinions.

	One guy said that if I power wash now, any blisters (I have a
	wall with a bunch of them) will pop open and expose wood.
	He is going to quote to include scrape,sand,prime,stain
 	those exposed spots. (sounds good and thorough!)

	The other guy said the existing exposed wood (not much, just a
	couple of peeling spots) is fine over the winter and can wait
	til next year to be re-stained.  He didn't mention anything
	to the effect that power washing now will cause more.		

	Is it likely that power wash will force open existing blisters?

	If I do power wash now (with spot painting), I'm hoping that
	maybe I could even skip re-staining next year.   

	Both contractors said that some houses show a stronger need 
	for painting after washing; some houses look freshly painted
	after washing.    Any experiences to share on this?

	Any ideas on costs?	

Hi,  I am only one opinion but I feel I need to give it.  My husband has been 
a painter for 20 years.  Power washing was invented for vinyl siding and has 
been used for wood/paint as an extra way to get money.  If you have mildew 
this can be treated very easily before staining.   If you have peeling or 
cracking, this also can be treated properly.  
There is no need to 'wash' any wood or painted surface before staining or 
painting.

Regards, Judy

I'm not a painter but I power washed my house last year before I re-stained it
and I'll do it again when I need to restain.  I was amazed at the dirt that was
washed off that I would have otherwise stained over   Since you aren't supposed
to paint or stain over dirt I can see some definite benefits to washing your
siding before painting.  The power part of it just makes it easier.

George

    
     If I had to take a side I'd have to say powerwash your house, and
    here's why I feel that way.
    
      I have an 9 year old house painted with California Latex Paint. 
    I noticed last year that mildew was starting to form on the clapboards,
    and since I have Abatibi Board on the house ( pressed ) I am very
    concerned about keeping it in good shape. So this year I decided to
    paint the house myself. Based on MANY notes in this notes files
    and from watching painters in and around the area. I decided to
    powerwash the  house. I rented a Powerwasher from Home Depot for $20.00
    and also a solution to add to the water to remove the mildew. It
    took  me a whole day just to properly wash the house. The power wash
    removed all the mildew, and really cleaned the house. So much so
    that neighbors asked why I would want to paint the house now that
    it looked so new. The power wash also removed any loose paint
    from the trim, and the clapboards. I did not have to do any scraping
    at all.    
    
     And when I was done cleaning the house, we used the extra time
    to clean the shed, the garage, the cars, under the hoods, the
    driveway, the kids toys in the back yard.
    
      If and when I paint my house again I will power wash. In fact
    I have to paint my mother in laws ranch next year, and I'll power
    wash it first !

    
    One thing you should be aware of if considering this process:
    
    	If your house is not well sealed, i.e. clapboard ovelaps, corner
    	board edges, etc, you can force significant amounts of solution 
     	through the exterior treatment.  This can potentially cause serious
    	problems like wet insulation, damaged wall board, plaster, etc.
    	This is especially a problem for older homes that may not have been
    	constructed with sheet products like plywood underlayment, Tyvek
    	wrap or sheet foam insulation.
    
    Just thought you should know....
    
    Stu