Conference 7.286::home_work

    110 volts! Ha Ha!
                   
    	....but seriously. Voltage is to electricity in a wire what 
    pressure is to water in a pipe. The higher voltage gives you a little
    more efficiency to the appliance for the task/function it is to perform.
    
    	If there are some 110 volt stoves, they must be using very high-       
    impedance heating elements.

It's also a matter of how many amps you'd need on a 110 volt circuit.  Don't 
stoves already take a 50 amp 220 Volt service?  I don't think there is such an
animal as a 100 amp 110 volt circuit.

Given that it was a more reasonable amperage, you wouldn't be able to use all 
the elements at once.  Forget those Thanksgiving dinners with a turkey in the
oven and other dishes on all the burners.  You just wouldn't have the juice to
do it.

Paul

   	I agree with the previous reply. The only thing that I can think of
    is, the stove, range that you are talking about could it be gas?? Gas
    ranges use 110 to run their clock, timer, lights. As for a completely
    electric range that uses 110, I've never heard of one.

    	CB

    .3 brings up a good point. The incoming 110 could be a igniter for the
    pilot-light, also.
    
    	-Hoop-

    110 Volt stoves do exist ... 
    
    In simple terms they are small, compact and the oven has much higher
    insulation but most noticeable is that the elements are slower to
    come up to temperature because all are lower wattage.
    
    The lower power means that there is no such thing as a fast boiling
    element ... they are all simmering rings!  The oven will have poor
    temperature control if you open  the door unnecessarily becasue hte
    element will take too long to replace the heat lost.
    
    I cannot imagine anyone doing serious cooking on one.  They'd be ok
    for a cottage or RV.
    
    Stuart

re .-1:

That's why hotplates are so slow to boil water.

    .5:
    
�    I cannot imagine anyone doing serious cooking on one.  
    
    Yeah, I can't either.  Endured one for what might have been the longest
    year of my life;  my current digs have an honest gas stove.
    
    Dick

    My wife has 3 electric kilns, one of which is 120volts at 16 amps.  She
    "cooks" at 2400 deg F and it works well.  The larger ones are 240v at
    40amps.  There is nothing preventing using 120 volt stoves.  Most (if
    not all) hot plates and toaster ovens are 120 volt.  Put them together
    and you have a "stove".

    Does anyone have any information on the new type of smooth surface
    electric stoves?  I'm considering purchasing one but I've heard mixed
    opinions on them.  Personally, I think they are a great concept since
    cleaning would be so much easier but I want to find out if anyone has
    any personal experience with owning one before I buy something I might
    regret.
    
    Thanks much.
    
    Robin

    
    
    If you mean cooking stove, then yes - I have one of these in the UK
    which has a Corning ceramic hob. It is a good concept, really easy to
    keep clean and mop up spills, very hardwearing.   The top still looked
    good after five years of use.  Can't say how long they last - but then,
    European kitchen equipment is not built to the bomb-proof construction
    that you are used to in the US, and I wouldn't expect to get more than
    10 years out of a European style stove.  
    
    One drawback - cleaning is a two-stage process which involves using a
    fine abrasive powder on a damp cloth, followed by a cleaner/conditioner
    liquid.  Corning sold the cleaning kits at a gouging price and made
    dire threats in the warranty about other cleaners.
    
    It gives you much more control and usable surface than a traditional
    electric hob and (big bonus for small kitchens) doubles as a worktop
    when not in use for cooking. More recent European models are offering
    quartz halogen elements instead of the metal/ceramic.  These are
    supposed to be more energy efficient, lower cost to replace and as
    responsive as gas.  Cooking by light they call it.
    
    Of course, you wouldn't want to drop a heavy casserole on one, but then
    again enamelled surfaces are also prone to damage.
    
    regards
    
    Colin
    
    

    Also, you MUST use a "flat bottom" pan - if you want it to heat
    quickly. We have a Jenn-Air with the std. ceramic, and it is really a
    ease in cleaning. They also sell a special cleaner just for them, less
    abrasive... The wife really loves the smooth surface.

    	Jenn Air also has the Halogen type, but for a set of 2 burners 
    @$600 +/-, (2 sets needed for the complete 4 burners), that is out of 
    my price range - they heat instantly, and cool instantly, and not hot to 
    the touch. 

    Thanks for the input, I appreciate it cause we almost got talked
    out of buying one.  I would hope they would last as long as a
    standard "burner type" of stove but if they don't, that may impact
    the decision.
    
    What exactly do you mean by a "flat bottom" pan?  Don't all pans
    have a flat bottom?
    
    Thanks again!

    
    "Flat Bottom Pans" are completly flat not like below:
    
    
    	|			|
    	|			|
    	|    _______________    |
        |___/               \___|  <--- a small ridge
    
    
    	|			|
    	|			|
    	|                       |
        |_______________________|  <--- No small ridge
    
    
    	We have a large Stock Pot that can take some time to boil a large
    amount of water because of the small ridge (does not sit flat on the 
    surface) - they will work but only takes more time. Have to invest in 
    a flat bottom stock pot someday  ;*)

    There sure wouldn't be any way to use a normal round-bottom wok on one,
    either!
    
    /Charlotte

    
    Yes there is!  A wok stand or tripod works fine
    
    C
    
    

I have one of these stoves. They stink. Their only saving grace is that
they are easy to clean, and you will need to clean it because its almost
impossible to control the heat. If you reach a slow boil and then turn
the burner off it will literally boil over about 5-10 minutes later. There
is no regulating the heat. Kinda like 2 positions: OFF and ON.

The pots have to be completely flat bottomed. Get out a framing square
or a straight edge. If its not truely flat it will not heat up correctly.
Some flat pots curve up when heated.

Corning recommends these glass pots. I think they're callled Visions. 
I never burned anything until I started using these pots. They compound
the heat control problem. You have stored heat in the burner when you 
turn the knob down and these glass pots store up heat also so the 
situation becomes totally out of control.

I'm biased towards gas but would take a conventional electric stove
over one of these anyday

    I'm confused - are you folks talking about glass top stoves or solid
    element stoves?  The solid elements are cast iron.
    
    I've used both.  The glass ones seemed to me to be about the same as
    regular (coil) electric stoves.
    
    The solid elements work well but it took me a while to learn to use
    them effectively.  The cast iron stores heat - it helps to think of the
    element as an extension of the pot (not at all like gas!!).  Turn the
    heat on the element to the correct temperature to begin with and wait
    for it to get there.  DON'T turn it on high and then try to turn it
    down!  
    
    An electric element works by turning the burner fully on until the
    designated temperature is reached.  With any electric stove, it doesn't
    help to turn the burner on "high" and then turn it down.  
    
    Once you understand this, an electric stove isn't so bad.  If you apply
    the "gas stove" model to a solid element electric stove, you will be
    pretty unhappy!
    
    Margaret.

    
    I *think* we're discussing stoves that have a single flat
    surface covering all four heating elements.  The surface
    is made of glass or ceramic, with either a window or
    some circular pattern showing the position of the heating
    element(s)
    
    It's a good point - they can be a bit of a pain for keen cooks
    who need the control as the glass top and heavy pans store a lot 
    of heat.
    
    The point is also relevent for safety.  The whole top gets very hot
    and stays hot long after you finished cooking.  Good models should have a
    thermostatically controlled warning light built into the hob.  it
    stays on until the glass has cooled.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

My folks bought a corning top stove about 15 years ago
and it still look/works like new.  At one point at least 
5 years ago they had to have some service on one burner,
but other than that, I don't think they've had any 
problems.  It does take some care to keep clean (2 step 
cleaning as mentioned in a previous reply), but if
done right, the top will last and look good a long time.

                                   -Jim-

    We have a solid-element electric stove.  I have to agree with .7 - it
    stinks!
    
    The elements are cast iron and are very difficult to regulate.  And,
    has been said, the bottoms of pans must be completely flat to use them. 
    The stovetop is easy to clean.  However, that's a small plus compared
    to the many minuses.
    
    We built our new house in 1988 and looked at lots of stoves before we
    decided on this one.  However, my wife and I both agree that this
    choice was a bad one.  If we had it to do all over again, we would
    install a propane stove (we do not have natural gas in our part of NH)
    and put the tank in the basement directly beneath the stove.
    
    Chet

    We have an electric stove with the cast iron burners.  It did take some
    getting used to.  We wanted a gas stove, but didn't want to pay the big
    bucks to bring gas in from the street just to cook with.
    
    Overall we like it.  We cook in Corning's Visions and cast iron most of
    the time.  You do end up cooking on lower heat especially with these
    heat retaining pats and pans.  It took a few boilovers and burnt
    bottoms to learn how to regulate the heat, but we have it pretty much
    figured out now.  If you want a slow simmer for rice, soups, stews,
    etc., turn it to Lo.  Frying and sauteing seems to work just fine on 6
    or 7 (Hi is 10).  It regulates the heat just fine.  It does take a
    while to cool down due to the heat retaining properties of cast iron,
    so if you're boiling over or starting to burn, take the pot off the
    burner and turn the heat down.  Don't count on just turning the heat
    down.
    
    The drawbacks I've seen is that it seems to take
    forever to boil a large pot of water, and the wok doesn't heat up as
    well as I'd like.

There's also the new "halogen" cooktops with what amounts to a heat lamp
under the glass surface.  Works fairly well, very quick response, and there's
no question but you know it's on!  My stepmother has this and she likes it,
though I think I still prefer gas.

			Steve

    Thanks to everyone for their responses.  The stoves I'm talking about
    I guess are sort of new to the market.  Whirpool and G.E. seem to make
    them.  They are called Ceran top stoves and yes they do look like the
    older ones made by Corning.  I *hear* that there have been great 
    improvements over the Corning ones.  
    
    I was told yesterday that the "halogen" cooktop stoves are being 
    phased out.  (Too bad cause the concept was great!  They heat up in
    a matter of seconds)  I'm not a science whiz here but it had something 
    to do with the fact that gas was inside the halogen tubes and it was
    dangerous.  Only one one manufacturer is still making the halogen cooktop
    stove....(at least that's what they tell me).  
    
    I'm sort of confused about flat bottom cookware though.  All my pots
    ( the make is Caphalon) are all flat bottom.  The only thing I can 
    picture that's not flat is a wok.  
    
    We are having trouble finding one of these stoves in white.  It seems
    like most of them come in "black only".  We found one in Lechmere that
    was a computerized model and looked pretty nice.  Only thing is, I'd
    like to see a demo of one before I buy one.  The comments appear to be
    pretty mixed.  
    
    Gas vs. Electric is a whole other note.  I'm convinced that it's all a
    matter of taste and what you're used to.
    
    Thanks again and if anyone has one of these Ceran (sp?) top stoves, I'd
    be interested in hearing how you like it.
    
    Robin  

"Gas was inside the halogen tubes"?  Well, yes, but there's also gas inside
regular light bulbs.  The halogen tubes are not dangerous, as long as there
is UV-absorbing glass between you and them.  I have not heard that they are
being phased out, but they are extremely rare in the US.

			Steve

    Well, when we were at Lechmere last weekend they had a demo (Ie: one
    burner "sample" that showed you how halogen worked).  It did take a
    while for it to cool off but it is very impressive when you see how
    fast it heats up.  I was sold but all they had were "cook tops" and I
    need a stove/range since we're not remodeling the kitchen at this
    point.  
    
    Yesterday I called N.E. Appliance for information since I was convinced
    that halogen was the way to go and the woman I spoke with said that
    halogen was being phased out for the reason I stated in the previous
    note.  I didn't understand the reasoning all  that well but if 3 out
    of 4 manufacturer's are discontinuing or have already discontinued
    their production of halogen stoves, there must be something to it.  
    I'm not an expert by any means, I just don't want to make an $800
    mistake if I can help it.
    
    

There are also inductions cooktops.  Aluminum pots won't work with them.  I
suspect they set up electro-magnetic fields, and they generate eddy currents in
the pot.  As with Gas, they respond instantly to the controls.  Since they
generate heat directly in the pot, you can put a piece of paper between the
cooktop and the pot, and it won't catch on fire. 

A seminar teacher mentioned them to our class (in S.Q.C.) about five years ago. 

Our local paper has a column by Jim Dulley (Sunday Worcester Telegram/Gazette),
and he mentioned them a couple of weeks ago. 

He said they are efficient, but expensive.  I think he listed manufacturers, but
I didn't keep the article. 

Induction cooktops were a big fad a few years ago, but have since disappeared
because of a number of problems with them, especially the need for special
pots and pans.

				Steve

    
    I guess they couldn't induce people to buy one?
    
    Sorry...
    
    

    I have a ceramic top electric stove.  I definitely agree with .7
    Purchasing that stove 13 years ago was about the biggest appliance
    mistake I have ever made.
    
    Ya, maybe it cleans sort of easily but I don't think you should have to
    use a scrubby and the special ceramic top cleaner every time you 
    BOIL WATER.
    
    The only good thing I have to say about it is it is 13 years old and
    has never required any service.  As a matter of fact I have been 
    waiting for it to give me problems so that I can have an excuse to
    get rid of it.
    
    One more thing, it's definitely a thrill to come home from work 
    and find that the teenagers have cooked something and it boiled over
    and then the stove was to hot for them to clean before I get home.
    Now, I have to clean it BEFORE dinner is cooked on the
    thing............
    
    Give me a plain old electric stove or plain old gas any day.
    
    Judie
    
    
    

Does anyone know what it costs to fix the burners on these stove? 

Mine must have a network connection to Notes. I was bad-mouthing it the
other day in here, and now another burner died YESTERDAY! That's 3 down, 
one to go and then the stove goes out to the curb. At least now there'll 
be even less boiled-over, burned on, space-aged hardness crud to scrap!

    I have a Ceran cooktop made by Maytag that I bought in March of 90.
    It was not my first choice, I wanted gas, but my wife liked the way
    it looked....so do I. It is black, has a light that stays on until
    it cools. The whole top does not get too hot to touch, unless all
    4 burners are going. I consider it a pain in the ass to clean, and
    I am the only one in the house who cleans it properly. You only
    need a one step cream to clean it, but when you use paper towels 
    they must be clean and dry. When things burn on it you can use a 
    single edge razor to scrape them off. It works as well as any 
    electric and when its clean and shiny it looks real good....
    I do have the cleaning time down to less than 5 minutes for even
    the biggest messes, but this is the major drawback.
    
    Saul

    We purchased an AMANA ceramic top stove with halogen cooking elements
    in August of 91.  We wanted a gas stove, but the home did not have
    gas.  Electric was out of the question...the cooking element heating and 
    cooling times were much too long for our cooking skills(mediocre at
    best).  The halogen burners really interested us.  Fast to heat up,
    easy to regulate, don't store much heat and the glass cooking surface
    cooled off fairly quickly.  There is a red light on the backdrop of the
    stove that warns of a cooking surface that's still warm after the stove
    is turned off..A nice feature.
    	The manufacturer recommends that you clean the cook top with their
    special cleaner(a very fine abrasive, much finer than SOFT SCRUB) and
    then use a wet clean paper towel to wipe off the counter.  Never use a
    sponge they say...It will leave a film that will bake onto the surface
    next time you use the stove.  Well, we've had the stove for 15 months
    and my only regret is that the stove only has 2 halogen burners.  we'd
    love to have all four burners of the halogen type.  Cleaning the
    cooktop is simple.  We're still on the first 16 oz bottle of stove cleaner.
    When you do clean the stove, you only need a tiny bit of cleaner.  I
    don't know the cost of the cleaner as they gave it to us free, but it
    can't be very expensive.
    	Oh yes....the stove looks brand new and we love it.  I believe that
    only AMANA makes a halogen stove here in the US.

I've been looking into this Halogen stove top issue lately, and found that
Jenn-Air also has Halogens.  I have a Jenn-Air in the house I just bought,
with the traditional electric coil burners.  They are hopelessly dirty from
baked-on crud and I'm looking at replacing them with Jenn-Air Halogen
modules...but they're pricey.

I called Fletchers Appliances in Nashua and was quoted over the phone that 
ONE two-burner Jenn-Air black glass-top module was $270 without the halogens,
and $400 with them.  I think the electric coil modules are about $120.  I
need two modules for the stove, so the Halogens, at $800 will run more than
triple the cost of just replacing the coil types.

I could just replace the whole cook top with an Amana unit for about $600
(30 in.) or 700 (35 in), but it's another $50 for each Halogen burner, or
a worst case of $900, and I'll lose the use of the exhaust fan that the
Jenn-Air already has built into it, not to mention the hassle of the
installation into an existing countertop that will undoubtably not match up.

Are the Halogens really being phased out?  If not, are they worth the cost
for esthetics and ease of cleaning as compared to the traditional burners?

tim

    I'd like to revisit this note....
    
    Does anybody have further comments on the desirability of the
    Ceran cooktops?  Do you like/dislike yours, and why?  I'm
    particularly curious about the cleaning business; are they really
    easy to clean, or do they require special techniques that are more
    work than you save?
    
    FWIW, you can still get halogen elements.

    It's now over 4 years since we got our Amana glass top stove...See my
    origianl post in .25.  We haven't had a problem with the stove yet and
    we still like the smooth cooktop and the way the Halogen burners work.  
    Cleaning the top is much easier than cleaning a conventional stovetop(with 
    the recessed or sunked burners).  We'd certainly buy another smooth
    top stove if we had to do it over again.
    

I've been cooking on one for a little over a month and love it!  I use a 
polish on it every other day or every 3rd day even though they recommend 
it every day.  Need perfectly flat pans to conduct the heat properly which
I have luckily.  :-)  Hard to get any flatter using Corning glass pots&pans.

Judy

I have an Amana smooth top stove, and I love it, though I had to ditch 
some of my ancient-of-days pans.  The salesperson told that the pans had
to be flatbottomed, but specifically told me *not* to use glass pans.

Different stove?

>> to be flatbottomed, but specifically told me *not* to use glass pans.
>> Different stove?

Mine's not an Amana.  I won't have any Amana product in my kitchen because
of my experience with a combination microwave oven I owned but that is 
another story.  I don't remember the brand but nothing was said in the
instruction book that said glass was not to be used.  Just have to make
sure there is nothing on the bottom of the pans when I place them on the
stovetop (like any other pan).

Judy

re: .27

> Need perfectly flat pans to conduct the heat properly ...

I guess that rules out using a wok.

-Hal

My cooktop has halogen and radiant units and is a KitchenAid.

    
     Mildly off-topic, but...
    
     Last year I purchased a range - and don't ever intend to purchase
     another one.  It is a 1940's O'Keefe and Merrit gas range.  2 ovens, 6
    burners.  Some models come with 4 burners and a griddle.  It is build
    like a Mac truck.  Cost: $400 at a yard sale, plus another $300 for
    parts to repair (simple to repair, easily DIY).  I am certain it will
    outlive me.  It is truly fine engineering, and is the best thing I've
    ever cooked on.
    
    I have to recommend that anyone looking for a new range consider an
    "antique" one, either the 1940's O'Keefe models, or the 1950s Chambers. 
    I did ALOT of looking around.  There is nothing that comes close to
    these ranges in quality and functionality that is being manufactured
    today for under $5000 (some of modern professional ranges come close).
    
    						/Rita
    
    PS:  I cook on a friend's smooth surface range - a 10 year old O'Keefe
    and Merritt - and I HATE it.  After 10 years, it heats unevenly, it is
    difficult to control the burner temperature quickly and accurately, and
    the surface is stained, pitted, and difficult to clean.  My vote is to
    stay away from these.
    
    

    .32:
    
�                                                               ... it is
�    difficult to control the burner temperature quickly and accurately ...
    
    I thought that "came with the territory" for any sort of
    electric-powered rangetop.
    
    Dick

    
    re: .33
    
�   >  difficult to control the burner temperature quickly and accurately ...
    >
    >I thought that "came with the territory" for any sort of
    >electric-powered rangetop.
    
    Yeas, that's true - but the smooth surface range I used had a
    larger-than-normal problem with this - even worse than the average
    electric range.  I suspect this is par for the course, since O'Keefe
    and Merritt is a reputable name in ranges.  Perhaps the Jenn-aire
    versions are better, but I still wouldn't bother.
    
    					/Rita
    
    
    

We are preparing to replace our stove and are close to making a decision.  We
want:  electric, self-cleaning, etc., and are currently looking at the Maytag
Convection Plus.             

Any feedback on the convection feature?  
Does anyone have an oven with that feature and have feedback, suggestions-- one
way or the other?
                                                                
The convection feature is supposed to cut baking time / cooking time in the
oven by up to one half.  
                                                                
Aside from a light on the back panel, this is the only additional feature.
I'm trying to ascertain if it's worth spending an additional $250 for this
feature and your comments are greatly appreciated here.

Rgds,
marcia
(MROA::LANDINGHAM)                                                        

    I have a convection-microwave.  It does a good job on steaks, but I
    have my doubts that adding convection as a feature is worth $250.  It
    also tends to reduce the size of the oven cavity.  Ignore the "cuts
    time in half" stuff - unless you take the time to adapt recipes to the
    convection feature, you won't use it much.
    
    				Steve

My electric Jenn Aire has a convection oven.

It does take less time to bake things, but,
more importantly, heat is distributed evenly
through the oven. This allows you to, for 
example, bake 4 sheets of cookies at a time
and get consistent results.

bob

We just recently got the KitchenAid radiant/convection range.  My wife was
raving recently about how she could bake six cake layers simultaneously, and
in less time than it normally took to bake two cake layers.  The time isn't
cut in half; however, if you have a lot of things to cook (cakes, cookies,
muffins) the more even heat distribution allows you to cook more items
simultaneously.

It is true that you have to adjust the recipies for the convection; however
I seem to recall that the formula is fairly simple, and my wife has not had
any problems whatsoever with the conversion.  (I recall it being something
like: reduce the temperature 25 degrees and reduce the cooking time by x%).

If I tried to take this range out of the house, I would not live to tell
about it.  In addition to the convection features, the radiant cooktop makes
it so that my wife no longer has to take an hour to clean up the stove after
our nine-year-old daughter attempts to cook something without supervision.