Conference 7.286::home_work

	Bravo Vick!
	
	If I only buy one item anywhere,  I'd just as well would rather
	take the receipt and throw the item in my pocket instead of
	wasting a whole bag.  I can't see how the company could legally
	enforce that policy without posting it.  Once you pay for the item,
	it's yours to do whatever you want with.  The other side is that if
	it's not in a bag,  you better be able to prove you own it as you
	walk out the door.

	Sometime when I feel like giving a jerk a hard time,  I might just
	go buy something there.
		
	Garry

      I've  had similar experiences, usually at Kmart, Sears and similar
      stores.  Theire reasoning is that it is  easy  for  them  to  spot
      shoplifters who won't have bags.  What nonsense!
      
      Sometimes  I'll  ask  the register clerk to put a "sticker" on the
      item or to just tape the receipt to it.  If they insist on bagging
      and I'm in a determined (or choose your own adjective!)  mood I've
      been know to let the clerk bag the item, the calmly remove it from
      the bag and walk out leaving the bag on the counter.
      
      This  is  NOT  only an issue or recycling.  Those bags cost money!
      That means we're paying twice --  once  for  the  extra  cost  the
      store  encounters  to  provide  the  bag and again for the cost of
      disposing of it.

      

I've had no problem declining a bag at Channel and Builder's Square, as
well as at several grocery stores.  (I also reuse grocery bags, which
sometimes gets me odd looks at the stores, even those that explicitly
encourage such actions, such as Shaw's.)

				Steve

Ummmmmmm......

I know that conservation is important to all of us, but can someone give me a
reason why I shouldn't delete this note?  Bags at K-Mart really don't have
anything to do with Home_working.

Paul

RE: .4

    Paul, I can think of two related "reasons" for leaving this note:

    1)	Conservation/recycling are issues that touch all areas of our lives:
	from disposing of building materials to using recycled materials in
	constructions to what to do with paper/plastic bags.  While I think
	HOME_WORK is probably not the place for general environmental
	discussions, I believe discussing topic such as this bag topic are
	useful.  Consider the scenario where a member discovers a particular
	building supply/store that encourages (or discourages) recycling or
	environmental awareness.  There are probaly other members of this
	conference that would wish to express their opinions (to the store)
	with their wallet/checkbook.

    2)	Relagating issues/topics such as this to the "proper" place is a
	sure way to get them ignored by the general public.  (Out of sight,
	out of mind.)  If is necessary to discuss these issues in an appropriate
	place, only those folks with an interest will search out and
	participate; human nature being what it is.  By allowing topics such as
	this, it is possible to keep people aware of the environmental issues
	that affect us all.

As I have indicated I feel that topics sucha as this one can be useful.
Howevr, they also have a significant rathole potential.  Perhaps this topic
could serve as a testbed to determine whether or not similar issues should be
raised in HOME_WORK in the future.

- Mark

  I for one would like to be aware of stores which support
  environmentally sound practises -- or not. I was not aware of this
  "store policy" of Grossman's, and will add it to my list of reasons
  for not shopping there.

  I have not had a similar experience at any other store. In fact, many
  stores ask if I want a bag at all (whether paper or plastic) in an
  effort to reduce their own operating costs.

  In general, though, I try to shop at Spag's.

    Oh, and one other thing.  I am distressed to see that the number one
    producer of pink fiberglass insulation has started bagging the stuff
    in heavy plastic.  What an unnecessary waste!
    
    					- Vick

    I have been asking stores to not bag my items for several months now. 
    Uusally I get a blank look on the face of the clerk.  I repeat my
    request, "No thank you, I don't want a bag.  Help save the
    environment."  Usually they have already gotten the bag half open and
    don't know what to do with it.  Most times they wad it up and stick it
    under the counter.  Oh well.  
    
    I have been trying to tell them I don't want a bag before they start
    but they usually blithly ignore me.  They hear me talking but are not
    listening.  When I repeat myself, they get mildly upset that I messed
    up the routine.  They can not comprehend that anyone would not want a
    bag.  People who act like robots.

     
    re. 7
    
       Can't agree. Good safety measure (keeps fibers out of the air
    and off skin) and also protects the insulation from moisture and
    dirt. It's a good idea to place new rolls in plastic bags at a job site. 

  I thought of that, too, but there are degradable wrapping materials
  which would accomplish those goals just as effectively.

    I always ask that they withhold their bag if I can carry the stuff in
    my hands.  Believe it or not though, I had the same problem as the base
    note...."company policy" at Ben and Jerry's who claim to be
    environmental...?
    Ken

re:5

>	Conservation/recycling are issues that touch all areas of our lives:

True, but so are all sorts of other issues.  That doesn't make this the right
place to discuss them.  People have tried in the past to start notes on such
general things as tax preparation, and have had their notes deleted.

>	Relagating issues/topics such as this to the "proper" place is a
>	sure way to get them ignored by the general public.  

True, but again, the same is true for many other issues.  Should we have notes
here about nuclear waste disposal and global disarmament?  The only tenuous 
connection in the base note to home_working is the fact that it was a 
Grossman's store, and that is really only incidental to the base note (at least
as I read it).

My tendency is still to delete this note as not appropriate for this 
conference.  I don't really care if people use one note to go off on this 
tangent, but given that we've been able to come up with almost 4000 notes on
topics that ARE directly related to home_working, I get leery about expanding
the charter.

Paul

    Re:  Grossman's in Nashua
    
    Why would anyone want to go there to buy a light switch?  Plus given
    their out-of-date policies regarding bagging, etc.  I've shopped there
    in the past - its like the other big chain stores - they seem to have
    difficulty trusting their customers, don't provide much help on the
    floor, etc...they're just going for volume.  
    
    Best store hardware store in Nashua is Hammar's.  Courteous, plenty
    of help to answer questions, quality products...and they ask if you
    if you want a bag.
    
    
    

RE: SEVERAL BY PAUL MODERATOR
      
      If  you  believe  that  this  belongs/fits  better in the CONSUMER
      conference, perhaps you'll extract it and put it their?
      

    re: -.1
    Speaking as the moderator of another notesfile I can, with authority,
    say, "It ain't his job, man."  Delete away Paul, the subject has run
    its course anyway.
    
    				Vick (the instigator) Bennison

    	This particular topic really doesn't pertain to homework as such
    and I'd say delete or move it.  But, that doesn't mean there is no place 
    in Homework for conservation/environmental type issues.  In fact, I think 
    they deserve their own keyword.  The environmentally related discussions 
    we've had include how to handle/dispose of asbestos, safe disposal of 
    paint residues, treated lumber concerns, disposal of roofing materials,
    pesticide topics, rainforest hardwoods (or was that Woodworking...). 
    Anyway, there are issues directly related to Homework that the
    conference is open to discussing.
    
    George

I'm not moving this anywhere.

There already exists the keyword WASTE_DISPOSAL, which covers most of the
environmental issues you brought up.

I can't be bothered deleting all this now; notes won't let me delete a block
of notes, I have to delete them one at a time.  I'm just going to add the
keyword NO_KEYWORD to the base note, so that in our next cleanup it will go
away.

Till then, you all can continue this as much as you like.

Paul

    Also try looking at the SAFETY keyword.  It contains some of those
    topics as well.