Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    	 Loam fill is mostly organic matter, probably contains lots of 
    	small rocks, roots and things. Drainge is poor to rotten and 
    	doesn't compact very well. Probably expensive too.
    
    	 Sand fill should be mostly sand with very few rocks. Drainage
    	is excellent. It compacts fairly well but can be soft when heavy
    	objects (vehicles) are placed on it. Usually fairly expensive
	in New England due to supply combined with it's demand for 
    	drainge systems.
    
    	 Hard fill (aka bank gravel) is very course sand and contains 
    	lots of rocks, most of which are smaller than a football. Drainage
    	is good and compaction is excellent. Cost is low priced $5-$7
    	a square yard.
    
    
    	 Your mileage may vary. In general I wouldn't suggest using loam
    	fill for anything unless you have to. Bank gravel is probably
    	the best bet for just leveling rough spots.

    
    I have seen many residential homeowners put out signs infront of
    there house saying things like "FREE FILL WANTED".  Now I'm interested
    in doing the same thing but before I do I want to get some advise.
    I have seen many types of signs and am not sure as to what they really
    mean.  What comes to mind are signs like
    
    	. FILL WANTED
    	. HARD FILL WANTED
    	. CLEAN FILL WANTED
    
    Cound someone help me define what the different sign are really asking
    for, what type of material the fill is?
    
    Also what I will be doing is trying to level off a large section of
    my back yard.  What I want to do is first get the yard level then
    buy some good loom, spread it around and seed it.  So with this in
    mind could someone advise me as to what type of sign and/or fill
    I should be using/asking for?  I'm new to this so all advice is
    appreciated.
    
    						- Dino -
    
    ****  Picture of back yard and task I wish to perform!  ****
    
    
      	     /\
           /    \
         /        \
       /            \
        |          |
        |          |                                  /
        |          |   existing                      /
        |  house   |     lawn                       /
        |          |_________________    area      /   hill/woods 
                                     \   to be    /
                                      \ filled   /
                                       \        /
                                        \______/
    

Pretty subjective but in my opinion, (jump in and correct me if wrong).

	FILL WANTED - just about anything including masonary building rubble
	 	      gravel, rocks, peat, ledge blast, general dirt, sand
		      maybe even brush etc.

	HARD FILL WANTED - any solid materials, rocks, boulders, masonary
			   building materials, any non-decaying material,
			   may include old hot-top or paving surfaces
			   
	CLEAN FILL WANTED - dirt, stone, gravel or any combination probably
			    not to include hot-top & paving materials or
			    building rubble

In any case I would suggest posting a phone number to call before dumping
and speak to the donator and specify what YOU want.  The last thing you 
need is hazardous dumping of any kind (WITH or WITHOUT INTENT)!

Taking a quick look at the area in your diagram leaves me with only one
question.   Where does the water/rain run-off now go and where will it
to after you fill in the area?  This may not be a concern but just thought
I would mention it.  Have fun spreading and leveling.  :-)

Good luck
Frank

Drainage is a very definite concern.  I can't tell from your diagram how deep
the trough is, but it seems likely that it's already carrying surface runoff
somewhere.  Where will that water now go?

   Gary

    Thank you for the replies, before I get to the drainage question you
    both have asked, can I assume the definitions that were entered were
    correct?  If so for the type of area I want to fill in what type of
    fill should I ask for?  I'm leaning toward to 'clean fill'.
    The area to be filled in ranges from 1-3 feet deep by 30'wide at the 
    widest point, and about 100' in length(big area I think, so all the
    FREE fil I can get the happier I am).
    
    Now drainage is not really a concern of mine, my drawing was not really
    perfect it was only meant to give all of you an idea of what I was
    trying to do so that you could help me decide on what type of fill to
    use and ask for.
    
    In reality the lawn already gently slopes away from the house and where
    the new lawn will meat the back hill I was going to leave a small
    trench that would carry the hill runoff away from the house.
    
    
    						- Dino -
    

    What you ask for depends on how long you are willing to wait to get it. 
    The clean fill is really what you want, but there are probably lots of
    places where that kind of material can be dumped, so nobody will go out
    of their way to bring it to your house.  
    
    I wouldn't accept organic material like tree stumps and brush.  That
    will decay and compact over the years and leave a depression.
    
    Steve

I have a depression, roughly rectangular, roughly 15' by 20' that is 6" deep at
most, that I want to bring up to level.  I figure I need something like 3 yards
of 'fill'.

I have a pile of about 5 yards of screened loam nearby.  If I use just that
loam, without other 'fill' underneath, do you think I'll have problems, i.e.,
muddy area or whatever?

Thanks,
Pete

    If it's only 6" deep, then just use the loam.  You'll get real nice
    grass or plants there.
    
    -al

    Didn't see this in the listing so... I'm looking for loam for a flower
    bed. Does anyone know of a company that sell GOOD, screen loam
    around Lunenburg, Mass?
    
    Rick

    Bill Proctor sells the best loam in Lunenburg.  I just bought 140
    yards myself.
    
    

    May I be so bold as to ask the price/yd?
    

    Proctor has quoted a price of $16.00 per yard...
    Crowley loam goes for 9 -10 per yard....
    
    Rick

    Crowley (534-6111 Leominster) quoted be 12.00 dollars a yard delivered
    4 1/2 miles from where they are "digging" it up...
    
    REK

>               <<< Note 4223.4 by FDCV06::KING "Jesse's Jets!" >>>
>
>    Crowley (534-6111 Leominster) quoted be 12.00 dollars a yard delivered
>    4 1/2 miles from where they are "digging" it up...
>    
>    REK
>
Crowley is taking the loam out of an area in Lunnenburg, just up the street from
P.J Keating company.

    
    
    FMI (for my information)
    
    A yard is a cubic yard, right?  There are 27 cubic feet to a cubic
    yard, right?  So, if I were to put down a six inch layer of loam, 
    a yard would cover 52 square feet? (27 + 27)
    
    
    

That's close, but try 27+27 one more time.

    
-> That's close, but try 27+27 one more time.
   
    Huh?  Let me try it again.  There are 1 yard = 3 square yards 1
    foot deep.  That would mean that there are 6 square yards .5 feet
    deep.  There are 9 square feet in a yard.  So that would mean that,
    my yard of dirt spread 6 inches deep would cover 54 square feet.
    (not 52).
    
    I know this should be simple math but were talking real money here
    not how many apples Johnny and Mary had after the train got to
    Pittsburg. :)

    All that _really_ matters is that when Murphys law is applied to the
    previous formulas you will certainly have either too much or too
    little!
    
    ;-]   Steve

    To spell it out, what .7 means is that 52 sq ft is not 27 feet wide
    by 27 feet long. It is only 27 feet long by 2 feet wide or 13.5
    by 4, etc.
    
    Ray

    Actually, I think .7 means that 27+27=54, not 52.  1 cubic yard should
    cover 54 sq ft if spread 6" deep.

    So much for the math...54 sq ft 6 inches deep.  I am looking at a 
    project that needs some screened loam.  I need to level out a strip
    of land next to my house.  Do you really get 6 inches of "packed" loam
    when spread out or does the loam settle so that you cover 54 sq ft
    but only 4 inches deep packed (and not 6").  Hence, you need to really order
    30% more cubic yards to make sure you get the right coverage?
    
       Ed
    

    In my past experience when ordering XX from a guy with a large truck,
    who only gets it loaded from another guy at the gravel yard, you're
    lucky if you get within 10% of how much you wanted anyway.  I'd
    recommend getting a little more than you need of anything. (Rocks,
    peastone, gravel, loam)  You'll find a place for the extra, if any, I'm
    sure.  No big deal.
    
    Steve

    So, what is fill made up of anyway?
    We're having our front yard "fill"ed in and reloamed, etc.
    They dumped one load of fill yesterday on my property yesterday 
    and aside from dirt, there are cinder blocks and other chunks of 
    cement!  Is this normal?  Thanks.

    /Fill (er Phil)

It can be, yes.  Fill is often construction debris.  Many, many houses are
built "on fill", especially in the last 30 years.  If you've got at least
a foot of loam on top of it, I wouldn't worry.  However, if there is any
wood in the fill, THEN you should worry, as termites will love you.

FWIW, a week ago I dug a hole about 8 feet long, a foot wide and two feet
deep to plant four rosebushes.  Out of that hole I pulled about 20-30% by
volume of rocks, including a 100-lb boulder.  I don't know if they were
"natural" or got dumped there when the house was built.

				Steve

>built "on fill", especially in the last 30 years.  If you've got at least
>a foot of loam on top of it, I wouldn't worry.  However, if there is any
    hmm, they're planning on 4 inches of loam

>wood in the fill, THEN you should worry, as termites will love you.
    my concern about wood would be decomposition and caving in of the 
    lawn rather than termites.  Besides it's a very wooded area to begin with.

    Thanks Steve

/Phil

    
    
    I'd keep an eye on what is being dumped.....  You never can
    tell what might end up in a deep hole and covered over!
    
    

>    I'd keep an eye on what is being dumped.....  You never can
>    tell what might end up in a deep hole and covered over!

I second that.  Anything hazardous in there then becomes your problem once 
you've accepted it onto your land.

Dan

    
    Yes - do watch out for wood.  If buried a few feet it won't cause much
    of a settlement problem as it takes years to rot down in absence of
    air.  A termite larder.  We found loads in our fill while digging
    footings for a deck.  Nice & close to the foundation too.
    
    (It's also a pain to get out should you ever have to dig there
    again - try sawing a wet log at the foot of a 3'x10" hole.)
    
    C
    
    

    Ditto on the wet logs at the bottom of the hole.  I remember
    hanging half into partially-dug holes for my deck footings
    with a chainsaw cutting through large sections of tree trunks
    which were buried underground.
    
    No termites, though; these were down about 3 feet!

On the other hand, decaying wood beneath the surface may provide great mushrooms!

Elaine

4" of loam?  I hope you weren't planning on growing anything except grass.
And I hope you were planning on watering the grass anytime it gets hot
and hasn't rained in a couple of days.  For bushes to do well, you need
at least 18" of good soil (as opposed to what is usually called "loam"
these days) and preferably more.  Most grass varieties don't send their
roots down that deep, but I'm pretty sure they go down more than 4" if
there is water and good soil.  The deeper the roots, the healthier the
grass and the less often you need to water.  One can buy grass varieties
that send their roots as much as 2 feet down.

	Luck,
	Larry

PS -- There are too many contractors whose attitude is that if there's
soil on top of it, it doesn't exist anymore.  Watch out!

    Im looking for about 30 cubic yards of screened loam
    for use in Lexington MA. Anyone have any pointers.
    I realized Im going to have to wait until end of April
    to find any dry stuff. 
    
    Whats the going rate these days? $9/yard loaded but not delivered?
    

    
    Looking for input on what the average price might be for screened
    loam in the Wilton/Milford, NH area.  Delivered.
    
    

    
    	Does anyone know what a good price for gravel should be? It
    will be brought to my house, ground will be leveled, they need to
    use a tractor, due to the 5ft. fence around the area.  The area
    is 18' by 34'.  This area is my dog pen and due to it being one
    very large mud puddle when it rains, like ever other day, gravel
    was suggested.   I was quoted a price of 140.00 for everything.
    I think its a good price but I've never dealt with this material
    before.   					Thanks  Sue 

    Sounds good to me, just for the labor part.  If it includes
    materials it's even better.
    
    The gravel would run, I think, about $5-$10 a cubic yard, probably.
    

    Re .34:
    
    Are you sure you want gravel?  Around New England that seems to mean
    sandy dirt with assorted sized stones - which sort of equates to mud
    in my book.  Would crushed stone be better?

    
    	Seeing it was the landscapers idea to put down gravel, just
    to get the dogs out of the mud puddle, I would assume its all rock.
    I will definately make sure we are on the same wave length.  Now I'm
    told that gravel will hurt the dogs feet, and that I should get
    smooth stones instead?  The price they quoted me is for everything,
    leveling, delivery, and spreading it out plus the gravel itself.
    I tried calling some places to get prices and I was told they only
    sell it by the ton.  Now that I'm thinking about it, would the sun
    heat up the gravel/stones enough to burn the dogs pads on their feet?
    				Why is everything such a major project?
    						Sue

    
    
    "Gravel" *is* a somewhat regional term. Just as .36 mentioned I'd 
    be be concerned about what you'd be getting. What you probably want for
    the dogs is called "pea stone" (it's commonly used in kennels). 
    
    Pea stone is generally small round pebbles that comes in various
    grades (sizes). A word of warning if you haven't bought it before:
    the grades "sound" larger than reality... in other words, a .75"
    grade sounds like fairly large pebbles, but in reality it's much
    finer than you would picture. 
    
    I just ordered .75" peastone from Westford Earth Materials and paid around 
    $70 delivered for two yards. I'm laying it down under a deck and while 
    I've been building the deck my dogs are constantly dashing through it 
    chasing each other and don't even seem to notice when they blow through it.
    
    Given that pea stone is generally a grey/white in color I wouldn't 
    be very concerned about it getting too warm to walk on. 
    
    Regarding selling by the ton: most places I've dealt with are able to
    do the conversion from yardage to tonnage. As I recall, the 2 cubic
    yards I ordered worked out to just over three tons. If you were to 
    cover your 18x34 area 2" deep you'd need about 4 yards.  
    
    A couple pieces of advice when using pea stone (or similar materials)
    for kennel floors:
    
    	1. Put up a perimeter of at least 2x8 lumber around the base of
           the kennel. Otherwise the running dogs will fling the stone 
    	   out into the surrounding area.
    
    	2. Plan on liberal waterings of the stone each week to help urine
    	   pass through to the ground below to avoid your kennels reeking.
    
    	3. Poop scooping can get mildly bothersome because it is virtually
           impossible to pick it up without taking stone with it.
    
    
    								- Mac  

Re: .37

    Now that I'm thinking about it, would the sun
    heat up the gravel/stones enough to burn the dogs pads on their feet?

Unless Fifi is a real quiche eater there you'll have nothing to worry about with
the dog's feet.  I walk around on tar, gravel, etc. in the middle of summer
barefooted and I'm sure dog feet are tougher than mine. 

I've not yet seen a dog at the beach slowed down by sand baking in the summer
sun. 

								-- Chuck Newman