Conference 7.286::home_work

    Funny you should ask.  We started adding our second story to our
    25x46' ranch about 3 weeks ago.  We have had 10 rainy days out of
    19 days of construction.  We're essentially making a gambrel colonial
    with 3 small dormers in the front and a full straight up back.
    
    It's been frustrating because of the weather (we have a few stained
    ceilings to show for it) but it's fascinating to watch.  
    
    The cost is $46K which includes framing, siding, roofing, windows,
    extending the chimney, rough electrical, and rough plumbing for
    one bath.  Most of the other extimates were $10K higher.  I'm going
    to do the finish work myself.  The original bid for the complete
    job was $85K.  Expensive but we're adding about 1100 sq ft.
    
    Pick July to do this kind of work (lowest rain month).
    
    Bob 

    
    I had a ranch the size of yours and added a second floor, not to
    mention the remodeling of the downstairs, all new windows, insulations,
    sheathing, siding, carpets, and all new heating system, and plumbing, 
    etc......., actually the house has been completely rebuilt, and my 
    main suggestion to you is....
    
    
    		MOVE OUT IF YOU CAN...........
    
    I know that moving out for a couple of months is difficult, but
    if it is possible, do it...  It is a total disaster but it was well
    worth it.  You need one hell of a sense of humor and an agreement
    with the spouse to take out all frustrations on the kids, they are
    miserable but a therapist for them might be cheaper than a divorce.
    
    This is something that is tough to do (mentally mostly) but after
    crowding into a house that was too small, the headaches of construction
    have faded quickly, and I now love the result.
    
    Total cost- approximately $85K, with new deck and shed..
    
    		but that's another story......
    
    Best of luck, expect the worst possible, and accept that some things
    will go wrong.
    
    
    	Joe Reppucci
    	from 5 rooms to 10 rooms, moved upstairs in two months, talk
    	about amazing...

    We had a second floor added about 3 years ago, along with first-floor
    wondow replacement, extensive first-floor renovations, etc.  We
    were fortunate to find a good builder with crew who had no work
    planned for Jan-Feb and had it all done (up to the point where it
    was ready for paint and paper) for $57k.
    
    As far as weather is concerned, you might ask how they'll handle
    the roof.  The way they did mine was to notch the roof edges for
    2x6's and stick-build three walls (they just left the end-wall open).
    Then they had trusses brought in and put up the new roof in about
    2 days.  Then they cut up the old roof with chain saws and threw
    it out the open wall into a dumpster.  Exposure to the elements
    was minimal and the trusses allowed them to do it this way as well
    as to allow a completely felxible floor plan upstairs (i.e., no
    load-bearing walls - the trusses handle it all).
    
    As far as I'm concerned, the following are MUSTS:
    
    1.  Full set of drawings by an architect, including material lists.
    2.  A proper contract that includes precise details covering
    everything, expecially (a) start date, (b) finish date, and (c)
    payment schedule that retains 20-30% until everything is done (i.e.,
    NOTHING LEFT TO DO - you'd be surprised at how many interpretations
    there are of the word "done").  Make sure you both sign and date
    the contract and all changes (if any) are initialed and dated. 
    Also keep a detailed diary covering daily start times, stop times,
    crew size, etc.
    3.  Find another place to live.  We were fortunate enough to have
    a finished in-law apartment and in-laws in Florida - it was ideal!
    
    Last point, after you get your plans, spend hours and days imagining
    the place, even mocking some of it up with tape on walls, etc. 
    This proved valuable to me as I determined that some doors swung
    the wrong way, I'd like a switch that controls all outside spotlights
    inside each 2nd story window, I had them frame and fill an opening
    for a whole-house fan and leave the wiring ready for me to buy and
    install the switch and fan if I ever wanted to. etc., etc., etc.
    
    Pete

    re: .2   Absolutely!
    
    When I was in the construction biz, I actually lost business by not
    wanting to get involved in major renovations like this where people
    thought they'd live there while I worked around them. I'm convinced
    that even the most reasonable of people go non-linear after weeks of
    eating breakfast with sawdust, plasterdust, and assorted fumes in their
    cereal. 

    I'd have to agree with all the previous...it is definitely better
    to move out, if at all possible.  I had a 2 story addition put on
    my house---which impacted every room in the original "cottage"---
    and lived thru 1 month of no roof on the bathroom, 3 months of
    no electricity except in the basement and one bedroom, 5 months
    of essentially useless kitchen, and in general 14 months of 
    pain in the **** until the contractors were all gone.  
    
    I would *not* do it again.  I love the addition (at least when I
    finish painting, staining, etc,--I will). But there is no way
    in heck that I would do anything that major again and LIVE in
    it.
    
    Just my $.02 worth...
    
    Deb
    

Has anyone ever raised the roof on a ranch house to make it a 2 story house?


I would assume that the foundation needs to be in good shape but what else is
a pre-requisite?   How expensive is this compared to adding an addition?  What
do you do about an existing (attached) 1 car garage that cannot be expanded due
to zoning regulations?


I have done absolutely no research into this idea - it is just a thought at this
time so I am looking for any information I can get or if anyone knows some good
books/articles that I could read, I'd appreciate it.

We did exactly this a few years ago.

The foundation is important but equally (maybe more) important is whether or
not the first floor will support the second.  We had an engineer/architect come
in and check stud, joist, and rafter use to first determine if the first floor
would require major work just to support a second floor (it didn't).  An
architect is also recommended to assure that whatever is designed for the
second floor is in synch with what's on the first floor (one example: cellar
stairs in older homes are sometimes not up to code and if you plan to place the
first-floor stairs over the cellar stairs, you'll have to build to code which
may impact cellar-stair headroom, which would then have to be fixed, etc.,
etc., etc.)

Another issue is what our architect called the 'character' of the existing
structure.  That is, if the house isn't almost perfectly square, level, and
plumb then you may be forced to design a garrison when, in fact, you're
thinking colonial.

Not knowing how the garage is situated, I can't comment on options.  We had an
in-law apartment attached and didn't have any problem during transition, but
that depends on design, both existing and planned.  In retrospect, if you have
an in-law apartment attached, DETACH IT AND HAVE IT SHIPPED TO FLORIDA!

Good luck,
Pete

    Assuming that your base structure and foundation is in good shape,
    building up is going to be significantly cheaper than adding on.
    The excavation, forms, concrete and landscaping work involved with
    a new foundation (addition) will run you $5-10K. If you already
    have 2x8" rafters or larger over your existing ceiling and they
    are supported by load-bearing walls then you have the beginnings
    of a pretty straight-forward addition.  You could start by by
    putting down 3/4" T&G plywood for your subfloor and then proceed
    to remove the roof and frame the new walls and roof.If you plan
    to do this yourself, you could probably do the decking, framing,
    and roofing in one week, working with 1-2 other skilled helpers.
    
    I just added a second story addition 12x24 over our garage and acted
    as my own general contractor. The labor to frame a weather-tight
    shell (framing, windows/doors, siding and roofing) was $5500. I
    wouldn't recommend the framer I used, but this gives you an idea
    of foundation $$'s vs construction $$'s.
    
    BTW, I didn't understand your issue with your garage zoning are you
    saying that you can't build on-top of the garage? .......can't convert
    the garage to living space?
    
    Good luck-
    
    Jonathan

    
     I'd vote for the roof raising also, seems to take a lot less time.
    I have a few neighbors in my neighborhood that just had this same
    thing done to their houses. Both of the houses were in the 25 to
    30 year range, ranches and square. I'm pretty sure on one house
    the contractor had to add 2x8 or 2x10 for the new floor support
    of the second floor. The contractors that did the work were Jackson
    Home Improvement in Wilmington, no relation or affliiation here,
    I'm just very impressed with they're work. In all I'd say I've seen
    them do  at least 5 roof raisings in my area including the house
    the owner of the company lives in. Another source of information
    would be THIS OLD HOUSE. I've seen them do a few, maybe someone
    in this notes file has taped those shows for personal use.
    
    
    Good Luck
    
    

    Thanks for the info.  I am seeing a structural engineer next week about
the foundation (for a different reason) but will ask him about adding another
level when he is there.
    We will probably have someone get it weather tight for us and do the
rest ourselves so the information about timing and cost given was great.

   re. .2  the garage is attached to the left side of the house.  I don't want
           to convert it/build over it as this would make the house too big.
           Ideally, I'd like to widen it to a 2 car garage but it  would be
           too close to the property line for zoning regulations. If it was
           left as a 1 car garage, it would be out of proportion to the house.
  
   |          ---------------------------------------------------- 
   |          |          |                                       |   
   |          |          |                                       |
   |          |          |                                       |
   |          |  GARAGE  |            HOUSE                      |
   |          |          |                                       |
   |          |          |                                       |
   |          |          |                                       |
   |          |--door----|----------------------------------------
   |
    <----property line 


  We have plenty of property in the back and on the right, so we could easily
  do an addition but thought we'd explore expanding up.

   Thanks again for the info.  
     Donna

    .0>  What do you do about an existing (attached) 1 car garage that
    .0>  cannot be expanded due to zoning regulations?
    
    You can apply for a variance.  It's a time-consuming process but not an
    especially expensive one.  You'll need to convince your Zoning Board of
    Appeals that your proposed encroachment on the side setback won't
    destroy your neighbors' property values, and that denying you the
    variance will cause you a hardship of some sort.  Your neighbors get to
    come to the hearing and object if they so desire.
    
    You can tear down the existing garage, extend the driveway through
    where the garage used to be and around to the back yard, and build a
    two-car garage in your abundant space back there.

    You didn't say what town your house is in however you may want to
    contact John Marchesi of Renovation Plus (littleton, MA).  I wish
    I had used him for my second story shell. The few dollars I saved going
    with a lower bid wasn't worth the aggravation we endured. We used
    John for other work and found his work to be top quality and he
    was a PLEASURE to deal with. He will travel a bit depending on the
    job and his schedule.
    
    John Marchesi has also been recommended by other noters in note
    2005.

Another note with too much to redirect now.  See duplicate notes 230, 1805, 
2335.

Paul

     I am considering adding a second floor to a ranch. I'd like to 
    cantilever the second floor joists. The question is how much.  
 
     Simple drawing below. A = the weight of the exterior wall, roof, 
    snow load, and ceiling (using roof trusses). b represents a uniform 
    load from the floor (at around 7-10 lb/ft**2). Does anyone know a 
    formula that I can use to determine x ?


      A b b b b b b b b b b b b
      --------------------------                    
           |
           |                   |
      <-x->|<-    12 ft.     ->|
          1st floor wall
    
    Thanks,
    Jim F.

    Well, you have to figure "b" as 40 lb/ft2.
    

One rule of thumb I remember:  Never more than 24".  I know that's not very
scientific but maybe it'll help.

Consider how it will effect lighting in understory.  Too much overhang can
result in excessive shading downstairs.  It can also result in a building
which just looks "uncomfortable".  Like some porch overhangs that really
no no support and so people use decorative iron work that just looks like
its too undersized to hold up the roof and you get nervous standing waiting
for them to answer the door.  May boil down to an issue of curb appeal.  
Real low tech suggestion.  Drive around and look what most houses have.  I'll
bet you will find most within a foot to 16 inches.  Two feet looks like a 
heck of lot when viewed from the sidewalk.

I phrased that too strongly.  Rather than "I bet you'll find" let me say,
"I'm guessing you'll find".

    
    re .7
    
     I'm not sure exactly what you mean by use 40 lb/ft**2. I am only
    concerned about the lever action on the second floor joists. I have to
    assume worst case - full snow load and no live load to help balance it.
    
    re .9
    
     I have looked a number of houses and would guess that the average
    overhang is closer to 1 foot rather than 2. I have done a rough 
    calculation where I replaced the uniform load b with approximately 
    equivalent point loads at 1 foot increments and found that even 1 foot 
    overhang may be marginal.
    
     A large overhang can be a big plus on a south facing room in the
    summer. I have an addition with a two foot overhanging roof and a room
    that has four large windows facing south. In the summer these windows
    receive almost no direct sunlight. In the winter this room is noticeably
    warmer from the direct sunlight it gets.
    
    
    
    
    
                                                   

    I standard rule for overhangs is that the overhang can be up to one
    half the supported value. I.E. for a deck with a joist supported on
    8 foot intervals, a 4 foot overhang is allowed.
    
    I have no clue where you found 1 foot to be marginal.
    
    Marc H.

    re: 40 lbs/ft2
    
    That's the standard design load for a house floor.  You design
    the house to carry a theoretical distributed load of 40 lbs/ft2 
    over all the floors.
    
    Simple case (no cantilever):  You have a 10'x10' floor being held
    up from below.  How much load do the supporting walls have to carry?
    
    The total design load for the floor is 10x10x40, or 4000 lbs.  Each
    supporting wall (there are only two, the ones that carry the ends
    of the floor joists) must therefore carrry 2000 pounds each. 
    (That's the dynamic desing load; I'm pretty sure you also have to 
    add in the dead load of the building material in addition to the
    40 lb/ft2 dynamic load.)
    
    
    

    
    >half the supported value. I.E. for a deck with a joist supported on
    >8 foot intervals, a 4 foot overhang is allowed.
    
    Not in Nashua.  The city code only allows 2', no matter what distance the
    supports are centered on, else my deck would be bigger! :-(

    
    re: 40 lb/ft**2
    
     That is a different problem. When sizing the joist I would use 40 lb.
    I am assuming that the joist is adequate to support the load. 
    
     Decks are another ball game. The snow falls over the entire deck, no 
    problem balancing the load on the overhang. Let me try to explain what 
    I'm trying to do without "drawing" too many pictures.
    
        

    the original drawing

      A b b b b b b b b b b b b
      --------------------------                    
           |
           |                   |
      <-x->|<-    12 ft.     ->|
          1st floor wall


    Find A assuming framing is 16 in. o.c. and x = 1 ft. 


    1. first the tributary roof load:

                    |<-            15 ft.             ->|
                    ------------------------------------ -
                    |                                  | |
                    |                                  |
                    |==================================| 1.3 ft.
                    |                                  |
                    |                                  | |
                    ------------------------------------ _ 

                    15 x 1.3 = 19.5 ft**2
                    19.5 x (snow load + dead load) =
                    19.5 x (40 lb/ft**2 + 10 lb/ft**2) = 975 lb

    2. next the ceiling load

                    |<-            15 ft.             ->|
                    ------------------------------------ -
                    |                                  | |
                    |                                  |
                    |==================================| 1.3 ft.
                    |                                  |
                    |                                  | |
                    ------------------------------------ _ 

                    15 x 1.3 = 19.5 ft**2
                    19.5 x (dead load) =
                    19.5 x (10 lb/ft**2) = 190 lb


    3. and the exterior wall

                    8 x 1.3 x (10 lb/ft**2) = 104

    So A = 975 + 190 + 104 = 1269
    So the moment is A x 1 ft (x = 1 ft) = 1269 (ft. lb.) 
    
    This needs to be balanced or the floor joists will start to lift in the
    middle of the house.

    4. by the floor load
       Assume worst case no live load
    
                 total load =  12 X 1.3 * 10 = 156 lb.

     This is where things are a little gray because of the uniform load.
    I think the moment = 156 * 6 (total load times half the span) = 936. 
    This is where I need help - how to get an equalivent point load from
    a uniform load.
    
    Assuming I'm right, this is not enough to counteract the roof load. 

    5. and

     I think I made a mistake by assuming that the mechanical connections 
    to opposite floor joist would not contribute. Code for my town requires 
    that the joists overlap by at least 3 in. and be spiked with 3 16d nails. 
    Although this connection is not very strong it doesn't have to be (but 
    it is important) because of the length of the joist to the fulcrum 
    (12 ft). 
                
                            1269-936=333
                                                                          
    333/12 = 27.25 lb = the force the nails have to resist.
    (actually 25.75 * 2 in my case because an equal overhang in the
    back).                      

    What am I missing (besides the correct terminology and some minor
    dead load adjustments) ?
    Steps 4 and 5 are where I am having trouble.
    
    Note that if I push the overhang to two feet the force on the nails
    increases to about 133 lb. I think a 16d nail sheer resitance is
    the range of 150-180 lb.


    

    
        I am planning to raise my ranch house.  Anyone know of good
    contractors or builders in Northborough, or my surrounding towns, which
    are Shrewsbury, Westborough or Worcestor ?   Of course, a person with
    good price as well as quality of work.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    - Pom -  
      

	Both Bob villa and "This Old House" have done this in the past
	year. 8^)

	Roy

    RE: adding 2nd story in Northboro
    
    I highly reccommend Jeff of JN Richardson Co. (508) 755-1773
    (see e-mail)
    
    Jt

    
    Out of your way, but Jackson Brothers in Wilmington, MA. They do a
    bunch in our town.
    

    I'm curious.
    
    Instead of just raising the roof can would raising
    the whole house be an option?
    
    Take my cape, please. Its got to window dormers and a shed in back.
    The first floor has many rooms k/lr/den/bath/dining room
    but the house is only 32x24. The size of these 1st floor
    rooms would make good bedrooms.
    
    The new first floor could be improved by an open floor plan
    and higher ceilings.
    
    Could one detach the house from the foundation.
    Lift it by crane or hydrolics and insert
    an new first floor walls. Reconnent plumbing and elect...
    Build stairs...
    (and of course replace the 2nd floor doors with windows).
    
    The cape would then look like a federal colonial with attic gables.
    

I read an article once that suggested that adding a first floor as
described in -1 was sometimes cheaper than adding a second floor.
This is because the strength of the walls is calculated to support
the weight above, so adding a second floor can mean (depending on
the house construction) major beefing up of the first floor walls.
Margaret.

It can and has been done.  I know someone who bought a summer camp and added
onto/rebuilt it so it was a halfway decent house.  But it was still on pylons
and frost heaving was starting to wreck it.  So he had the place jacked up and
the underneath dug out as a half-basement.  The building was jacked up by
slowly jacking it up on several jacks and on stacks of cut railroad ties. 
After it was done the whole building was lifted about 1/2 story higher with the
other 1/2 story being underground and the original height of the camp above the
ground level.  The downstairs became basically a finished basement. 

The biggest problem was for a while it was impossible to get from upstairs
to downstairs without going outside!

-Mike

    Yes, I met someone who made his one story into a two story
    by jacking up the original house, near Baboosic Lake in Merrimack.
    
    ed

    This interests me. If anyone knows a builder who actually
    has done this please send me his name.
    
    I wonder what sort of jack one uses to boost a house up 10 feet?
    You probally could have some one like acorn manufacture prefab
    walls to so that you can pop in the first level as soon
    	as the house is up. On second thought that wont work
    there is to many connections required to be made from the foundation 
    through the new first level to the old utilities to
    make that pratical.
    

>>                      <<< Note 2335.24 by NOVA::MICHON >>>
>>                               -< tell me more >-

This Old House just had a segment from Florida where they jacked up
a house on concrete slab.  They lifted the whole slab and then they
were going to build a couple of carports and a family room underneath.
I would imagine they would try to insert some steel beams under the 
first floor and then lift it up with jacks on each end of the beams.

Garry

    My ex-brother-in-law, who lives in southern Maine, did this when he
    converted his summer "camp" to a year-round house.  They raised the
    house and put in a full basement underneath.  I don't know how much
    this cost him... he most most of the non-heavy work himself.  I don't
    know how the excavation was done underneath the house with the familyu
    living in it at the time, either.  I do recall that the whole thing sat
    on heavy girders over the hole when the foundation of the new basement
    went in - must have been pretty exciting for my two young (ex-)nephews.
    The house wasn't very big, about the size of my house.  A separate
    garage was added later.
    
    /Charlotte

    I imagine lifting a ranch house enough to excavate underneath
    is very different from hoisting a house off a full basement
    to install a new first floor.
    
    It seems you need not go up 10 feet just to put in a basement
    and there is a lot less utilities to reconnect.
    

   Re: This Old House..

   They also mentioned that the cost was $12/square foot.

   

    
     A contractor around the corner from my house just lifted the roof off
    a ranch, and inserted the second floor. Two large beams to lift the
    roof, and hydrolics on both sides. Looks great they already have the
    second floor walls done, and tied into the old roof. 

    
    I saw a house raised and a new first floor added on Central Street in
    Littleton, Mass last year. The house is about 1 mile from Littleton 
    Common. Looks nice. 
    
    

    
      Re: -1   There is no Central Street in Littleton, it was probably
               either Goldsmith Street or Newtown Road which connect
               to Central Street Boxborough and Acton.
    
               FWIW:  Mark

    
    Hello,
    
    We are in the process of looking for a contractor to add a second
    floor to our ranch. I put a note in here a while ago on builders/
    planners and we'll porbably check out a few of the recommendations
    I recieved.
    
    Last week we went to the Home Show and talked to the president of
    a company called Pinnacle. They do ranch raisings and use modules
    (2) to do it. They claim they will have the house weatherproof in
    1 day and the job done in 1 week. This is quite different from the
    8-12 weeks I have heard to stick build. I never would have thought
    of modular construction, because I have this bias, unsubstaniated,
    that modular construction is not of the same quality as a good stick
    built house. Anyway, the 1 week job time has caused me to rethink
    my bias.
    
    Does anyone have any experience with this kind of construction, and 
    particularly, Pinnacle ?
    
    I also talked with a company out of Sudbury, Ma., called Eagle,
    that does stick building. Any opinions on them ?
    
    Also, if anyone can recommend a good contractor that does
    this kind of job I would appreciate it. BTW, I live in
    Central Mass.
    
    Thanks very much,
    
    mike
                                             

    Hi Mike,
    
    Look into a company "High-TecH" (I believe). They have a patent system
    that raises your roof in 15 minutes (only takes 1-2 people) and uses 
    your existing roof. They take measurements and preassembly the walls 
    with the windows already installed.
    We got an estimate a few years back around 30K.
    /John

    
    re: modular construction. I bought a modular home in 1983. I had been
       looking at  them as part of my decsion to buy a house. I went to
       look at a Split 24x50, and noticed while in the basement that it was
       a modular. The broker didn't even know. When I had the home
       inspection before buying the house. The inspector didn't even 
       notice till I mentioned it to him.  The construction was great
       house was very solid. Any modular company will wok with you to
       add a second floor to your house, why go to a subcontractor. Go
       right to the manufacturer. There are a few in this area, mentioned
       somewhere here. re: roof raising. I've talked to a few builder
       friends, and they're comments is that there's not much savings
       to doing that, and your better off going with a complete new
       roof that's more solid.
    
      
     

       A variation to the "raise the roof on a ranch" scenario...
       We are considering buying a "Royal Barry Wills" style 
       house (basically a variation on a split level where the 
       house is constructed in two side by side halves, offset a 
       half level above each other creating 4 living levels 
       attached by 1/2 flights of stairs). We like the layout but 
       the 7'3" high ceilings really close down the space. The 
       side we are thinking of remodeling has a kitchen, living 
       room and dining room then 2 small attic like bedrooms 
       above with even lower ceilings. 
       
       We would like to turn the 2 small bedrooms above into a 
       master bedroom (there are still 3 bedrooms on the other 
       side)and raise the roof a couple of feet to get a better 
       feeling of space. This is probably not a big deal. The rub 
       is that we would also like to add a foot to the first floor 
       ceilings, again to update the look and feel.
       
       Could this extra foot or so for the 1st floor ceilings be 
       built on top of the existing 1st floor walls or would they 
       have to be grafted on by cutting down into the walls? 
       Though we need to update the kitchen, we would like to 
       save as much of the 1st floor as possible.
       
       Any comments?