Conference 7.286::home_work

    I don't have any direct experience with cordless drills, although
    I do recall seeing quite a few Makita drills used by workers at
    a major office repartitioning in MKO. They used the drills (with
    socket bits) all day to disassemble and reassemble office dividers
    -- some pretty heavy usage. I assume they recharged them at night.
                                 
    FYI -- last night I saw a sale ad for Town Paint and Supply in which
    a couple models of Makita cordless drills were featured. I don't
    recall the prices of the drills, but I do remember seeing other 
    prices that were exceptional -- a Milwaukee variable speed Sawzall 
    for $114, for example. Town Paint is supposedly one of the largest 
    Makita outlets in New England. I know they have several stores, one 
    of which is in Natick.  The sale runs through Saturday the 23rd. 
             

    Makita has a series of battery powered tools that uses the same
    battery pack. That allows the tools to have a ready power source
    along with one in the charger.
    
    Batteries on seldom used tools goes dead after a while; costs about
    50% or more of the tool to replace. The interchangeable battery
    pack are great for folks who use the power tools daily; otherwise
    they become toys... expensive toys.
    
    /cal

    I've got the Makita, with an extra battery pack, and like it
    a lot. It's a fast charger, I think about 3 hours.

I also have the Makita.  The battery pack takes an hour or less to 
charge, so I never bought an extra battery -- I just use the death of 
it as an excuse for a break.  The model I got has an adjustable clutch so 
you don't over-drive screws when you're using it for screws (The clutch 
has a position for drilling that won't allow the clutch to slip.)  It 
also has a high/low transmission between the motor and the chuck, so you 
can select the speed range you want.

The removeable battery is a good thing.  The clutch is a good thing.  
I've never used the high range on the drill, so I don't know if that's a 
good thing or not (I use it with wood and soft materials mostly.)  The 
price range from the lowest model with a removable battery and the top
of the line was only about $30 ($114 to $145) where I bought it, so I
bought the fancy model.  There are probably better prices available, but 
I was willing to trade dollars for time.

						>>>==>PStJTT

    
    I own the Milwalkee with a spare battery pack. The drill has the
    clutch and two speeds, a variable speed is available now for the
    same proce I paid for this one, around $150 + $54 for the spare
    pack. It takes 1 hour to recharge. I'd use this for ANY drilling
    job I have, it's quite powerfull I can put many 3" sheetrock screws
    into 2X4's before the battery losses power. 
    
    wayne

    How long do these battery powered tools run before needing a
    charge?  I assume it's dependent on the job, but there must be
    a ballpark figure.

I recharge mine about every day and a half when I'm using it to drive 
screws in a large project.  It's not constant use, since I'm also 
cutting wood, lining things up, and all that stuff.  But it drives 
enough screws to keep me working most of the weekend.

The batteries (in the Makita at least) seem to have a fairly good power 
profile, but when they hit the end of the line, they're flat.  Several
times, I've had it running full speed as I start a screw and then die
with the screw half way in.  It's like someone threw a switch.  But it
certainly beats having the drill get slower and slooower and
slooooowweeeerrrr as it reaches the ned of the battery. 

The drill came with a little chart that expressed battery performance in 
terms of number of screws you can shoot, the number of holes you can 
drill in thin steel and things like that.  Maybe someone else saved 
theirs...
					>>>==>PStJTT

    Skil supposedly has the hot setup with their 12v drill w/clutch.
    I have last years 7.2v fast charge and find it very useful when
    drilling outside or in a basement when AC isn't handy.

	Is this topic covered in the Tools conference?

	DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS

	RD

Just to add my opinion -- I don't think you can go wrong with either the
Milwaukee or the Makita ( 9 million contractors can't be wrong).

I'd recommend you get a 9.6 volt model rather than a 7.2v.
 
I have the bottom-of-the-line 9.6v Milwaukee (2-speed, 4 clutch settings,
charges in an hour).  The biggest difference (too me at least) between the
Milwaukee and the Makita was the handle.  I have a fairly small hand -- the
Milwaukee seemed to have a smaller (diameter-wise) handle and a better balance
(the handle isn't as long as the Makita).  I tried a Ryobi but found the handle
too bulky and uncomfortable for me.

I bought my drill from Ace 4 Corners (I think that's the name) mail order
for $119 (this included the drill, battery, and charger -- no case).  Delivery
took 7 days (during the Christmas rush).  I picked up a plastic carrying case
from Maki's (Lunenburg) for $15.00.  

-Bruce

     some one mentioned in an earlier note that the batterys go dead
    and have to be replaced if not used alot.  is this true and if so
    how long will they last.
    
    

    Well, I got home last night with all of your replies, and the replies
    from the TOOLS notes file, all set to show them to my SO and give
    him lots of info.  Of course, he had gone out and bought the drill
    yesterday morning.  So much for helpfulness!!!
    
    Anyway, what he bought is the Skil 12V.  He got it, with 2 battery
    pacs, for $125 at Hammar.  He is a painter/handyman and uses these
    tools alot.  He decided against the Ryobi because of its weight,
    and I think bought the Skil because 1) the price, and 2) Skil is
    an American company.  He won't generally buy Japanese.
    
    Thanks for all the help.

The idea of having a cordless tool has always sounded very useful
to me but I have avoided it for one primary reason. From my
understanding of battery technology unless you charge and
completely discharge the batteries frequently and religiously you
can expect to have to replace the battery within a year to three
years.  During this period (without following the charge and deep
discharge strategy), you will notice a smaller and smaller useful
duty cycle to the point of uselessness. 

Since I am not a contractor and would probably leave the tool
unused between projects I assumed that this type of performance
degradation would over-shadow the advantages of the tool.  I 
don't want to buy a new battery every two years or find that
just when I need it the tool only holds a charge for five minute 
intervals.  Note that the maintenance of periodic deep discharge 
is compounded by having a spare battery pack.

I hope battery technology has changed significantly in the past 
years so I ask the question:

     Are there any long time user's of battery operated tools out
     there that can comment on the expected life span of the battery 
     packs for a casual user?
     
-JFK- (a good, dependable, cost effective tool for the long haul? 
      ...or is this just an expensive novelty)

    As a user of NiCad batteries since the late 60's I can tell you
    that they DO last a long time even if you don't use them a lot.
    I have batteries now that I bought over 15 years ago that still
    work ok, I haven't used them very often. NiCad batteries will develop
    some amount of memory. Which means they kind of get used to the
    way they have been used (including left discharged). It isn't a
    very dramatic change but it is possible to notice it in severe cases.
    However the memory can be erased by a few full charge and discharge
    cycles.
      NiCad batteries do go bad (usually they become shorted, acting
    like a piece of wire instead of a battery), but usually will last
    for around 1000 charge and discharge cycles. The only thing that
    can damage them is if they get COMPLETELY discharged, though it
    doesn't always.
    
    					Kenny 

I've had a cordless drill for a couple of years now.  As a homeowner, my
use pattern is much as .13 describes:  periods of heavy use, separated by
long periods of zero use; full discharge use and light use in random
combinations; recharging when convenient, without a great deal of attention
to optimal charging time.  For my purposes, I've had zero problems.

My drill is a smaller Makita, with the built-in 7.2V battery rather than 
the removable 9.6V one.  Very seldom have I wished for a swappable battery 
pack; in all but the heaviest use, I wear out before the battery does.  
Lower cost, and the convenience of drill and battery in a single package 
won for me.  I have enough trouble finding the recharging transformer in 
the confusion of my shop; I can't imaging hunting for the spare battery!

For drilling jobs that require serious oomph, I break out my (corded)
Milwaukee "Magnum Hole-Shooter".  So the Makita gets used for the 
lighter-weight tasks, where its light weight is a bonus.

My favorite two drill accessories:

1. A magnetic screwdriver bit extender.  Lets me change screwdriver bits 
   instantly; gives all the benefits of magnetism in handling screws; and
   (my original purpose in buying it) lets me drive screws inside recesses.

2. A holster for my Makita cordless.  Bought on a whim, but it has greatly 
   increased the pleasure and productivity of using the drill.

    
    Re: .15
    
    Dave,
    
    Is your Makita a variable speed reversable type drill?
    I have been considering a cordless drill for a while, but
    many of them don't seem to come with those options.
    
    -tm
    
    p.s. For those of you who want the magnetized screwdriver
         bit, you can always make your own.  I know someone that
         magnetized his screwdriver bit himself, and it works just
         fine. 
    

.16>    Is your Makita a variable speed reversable type drill?

Yup.  I wouldn't consider any other kind.

Model number is 6070D.

    re.1
    I am the supervisor for the crew working at MKO.
    We have been using Makita cordless drills for about four years now
    and just like reply.1 stated we give them heavy usage.
    On the average we will discharge the batteries three or four times
    a day and they only take an hour to charge.
    The one drill that I use is almost four years old and the batteries
    last as long if you always completely discharge them.
    The Makita comes highly recommended,even our power drills(corded)
    are all Makita.
                                               "wharfrat"
    

    do the drills start running "less efficiently" as they get near the
    end of the charge duty cycle"? Or is it that the batteries suddenly
    stop working. I guess I am trying to determine just how the drill
    informs you that it is time to recharge? And whether that is consistent
    with letting the battery run down completely before recharging, in
    order to get maximum life out of the batteries.

    My Makita gives up suddenly: pretty much full power until the
    last 2 or 3 holes. I wouldn't worry too much about Nicad memory
    under the circumstances; I usually end up drilling until it won't
    drill any more just to be sure I wasn't imagining it.

	My Bosch runs down fairly abruptly.

	I don't keep track of how much it can do on a full charge,
	but the other day I was removing 2" wood screws.  The drill
	felt "full-power" until the last 3 or so.  Then it ran slow,
	slower, stop.  I assume if the drill won't turn, it's battery
	has no more than residual charge.  I suppose you could hold
	the trigger for a couple of minutes.

	Incidentally, I'm going to buy another drill one of these days,
	but I plan to buy a VSR instead of the 2-speed one I have now.
	I find its low speed too fast for screws, and its high speed
	too slow for drilling.  (I think speeds = 300, 600.)

	Regards, Robert.

Reviving this note again...

RE:15

I am in the market for a cordless drill after my Black and Decker gave out 
under the warranty and I got my money back.  I believe the problem was
with the battery pack, but I was not impressed enough with the drill to
try another.

My question for David Larrick: The Makita 6070DW variable speed reversible 
with internal battery is on sale at Lechmere this week for $60. Is this a
good price?   Are you still happy with the drill?

By the way, I called Makita and the price for a replacement internal
battery (just the part, I do the work) would be $40!

The question for others:  Since I don't do a lot of construction work, I
can't justify a gold plated rechargeable drill.  Since I believe variable
speed is the way to go (rather than two speeds on most models), I see the
only choices in the market as:

	1. The 6070DW Makita for $60 (sale) with internal battery.

 	2. The Sears variable speed rechargeable with "external" battery
	   pack, clutch, and variable speed.  Normally $68. On "sale" in
  	   the catalog for $60. 

Now I know a lot of people who would not buy Sears on principle, but my
experience with the more expensive Craftsman home tools is pretty good. 
Consumer Reports recently rated drills and the Sears variable speed
cordless model was rated in the same category as the bottom/middle Makita,
Milwaukee, etc.

Does anyone have specific experience with this drill.  Don't confuse it
with the $20-$40 models normally sold in the retail stores, which are junk.
I have never seen this one at a retail store.  

Thanks for your help,

Alex

    This month "Fine Woodworking" did a report on cordless drills,
    comparing Makita, Bosch, Sears, Skil, etc.  They compared the 
    higher priced ones, but the article was good information about cordless
    drills and what to look for.
    
    Peter

>  My question for David Larrick: The Makita 6070DW variable speed reversible 
>  with internal battery is on sale at Lechmere this week for $60. Is this a
>  good price?   Are you still happy with the drill?


Here I am, resurfacing after our group's move to the boondocks of Westford...

I forget what I paid, but based on my hazy memory of recent ads, $60 sounds 
like a good price.

I'm still happy with the drill.  It was losing its charge pretty quickly after 
I had abused it a bit (by repeatedly recharging it after only light use), but
after I ran it down all the way and then recharged it fully, it got better. 
I'm very pleased with its torque, and with its overall design and balance. 

Note that my other drill is a Milwaukee Magnum Hole Shooter, so the Makita gets
a rest when I need serious torque; I wouldn't recommend the Makita as anybody's
only drill or highest-torque drill.  I also have a cheapo homeowner cordless
screwdriver with torque clutch for very light-duty or delicate work; the
Makita's weight and its lack of a clutch might be bothersome on these tasks.
But for that huge middle area of drilling and screwdriving, the Makita is a
suberb choice. 

I still stand by my statement that the last thing I need is a spare removable 
battery to add to my workshop clutter.  On those rare occasions when the Makita
battery wears down before I do, I'd just as soon reach for the Milwaukee.

RE: .22
       <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS.NOTE;1 >>>
                           -< Woodworking and Tools >-
================================================================================
Note 227.35            Cordless Screwdriver and Friends...              35 of 35
ALEX::CONN "Alex Conn, ZKO"                          28 lines  20-OCT-1988 10:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this week's sale, I picked up the Craftsman cordless drill that is on
sale for $59.95.  It's the one with the Sears number ending in ...28.  It
has variable speed (0-600), 4 torque settings, 6-cell battery pack
(7.2V?), one hour recharge.  I was quite impressed with the power and the
smooth feeling of the thing.  I am convinced that the average homeowner
and do-it-yourselfer will be well served by this tool.  The variable speed
capability (as opposed to the two speeds in most cordless drills) is a
*major* feature for me.  Extra batteries are available in the catalog for
about $25.  You could probably drill virtually continuously with just two
packs. 

I compared it with the Makita variable speed cordless drill at the same
approximate price.  The Makita has internal batteries.  If they wear down,
you either throw out the tool or you buy replacement batteries which must be
soldered in place and cost $40 from Makita.  I liked the level built into
the Makita, but the battery problem (especially given the experience with
the B&D unit) caused me to choose Sears.  A Makita with replaceable
batteries and variable speed is over $100 more. 

(By the way, the CU report seemed to give a reasonable review of this
Sears unit. I'll let you know if I have problems along the way).

At this week's sale, there is a similar model (Sears number ...32), that
costs $79.95.  The difference is that the battery has 8 cells (9.6V?),
like the contractor cordless drills.  Other than that (and the fact that
the box is printed in gold), I could find no difference for the extra $20.

Alex
 

                <<< MEIS::PUB$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ASKENET.NOTE;3 >>>
                            -< Ask The Easynet V4 >-
================================================================================
Note 1662.0               Where to find a Mixing Drill                   1 reply
WJO::COOK "Shadows Of Another Day"                   30 lines   1-JUN-1989 14:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Hi.
    
    I'm hoping someone out there can help me... 
    
    I was planning on buying my SO a mixing drill (for plaster) for
    his birthday next Tuesday, and I'm not sure what kind is the best
    to buy and what to look for and where to look.
    
    I called up Dana Wallboard in Tyngsboro. They have two models.
    One is a Black and Decker for $195 and the other is a Milwaukee
    for $165.
    
    Would it be best for me to go with the B&D one?
    
    This will be for his own private business, so I want to get him
    the best one available.
    
    If there are other places you know of where I can get a
    mixing drill, please send their phone numbers along to me...
    
    I live in Nashua, so somewhere close would be nice, but if it's
    a drive it's no big deal either...
    
    Thanks in advance for your help.
    
    Angela.
    
    

    In general I think Milwaukee makes a better commercial/industrial
    grade product than B&D.  Dana is a MAJOR distributor to the trade
    so so probably wouldn't sell junk.....and besides a plaster mixer
    is not in your typical "home-handyman's" toolbox.
    
    You might also try Handyman Supply in Marlboro, MA.  Don't let the
    name deceive you, they are also a major suppler of drywall and
    plastering goods to the TRADE. Might be worth a call just to find
    out what they sell, price and their recommendation.
    
    Jonathan

    If your SO already has a 1/2" drill, you might try getting a mixing
    paddle for about $15.  Much cheaper than $150. for a drill setup.
    
    Dan

    re .2, you can get the mixes for a 1/2 drill at Spag's Schoolhouse (the
    main store just has the little ones), in various sizes.  I think that
    the largest are about $25.  I have the next one down, and use them for
    mixing drywall compound and texture paint mixes, with no problem at
    all.  This is also what I have seen contractors use, rather than pay
    the $$$ for the entire dedicated drill.
    
    -reed
    

    DO you guys think it would mix DRIVEWAY SEALER? I did my drive
    this past month, and do not look foreward to EVER mixing the
    5 gal pails again by hand- what a job!
    
    Would the mixing paddle attachment for a drill do it?
    
    Mark

    re: .5  
    
    I did it this past weekend and it works great!  Only I didn't buy
    a "mixing paddle" (whatever that is).  I used the bottom of one
    of those old bike flags, the fiberglass pole fits into the drill
    and the mounting bracket does the mixing.
    
    Elaine

I've got a cordless Ryobi drill which uses a 7.2v NiCad battery pack.
The battery is apparently wearing out because it holds much less
of a charge than when it was new.  So I've been looking for a replacement
battery pack, so far with only minimal success.

Nobody around here has the battery packs in stock, and I've gotten
price quotes of anywhere from $45 to $75 for a replacement battery pack.
During the course of my search, I noticed that Makita sells a 7.2v
battery pack for their drills which appears to be functionally equivalent,
but the plastic case of the battery pack is slightly different so that
it won't fit my charger or drill.  The Makita packs are avail. on the shelf
for under $30.

3 questions:
1. Anybody know of a reasonably priced source for Ryobi replacement parts?
   (I called Ryobi directly, and they referred me to an 800 number for
    Parts Co. of America - division of W. W. Grainger, which yielded the
    $75 price)
2. Anybody know if a Makita battery pack can be modified to fit the
   Ryobi form factor?  Or, anybody have a dead Makita 7.2v battery that I
   could use for some experimentation?
3. Is there a way to rejuvinate a NiCad battery pack after it has lost
   most of its charge capacity?   Note: over the years I have religiously
   run the battery completely down before re-charging it.

	Randy

You could try hobby shops as alot of "toys" run on 7.2  v .  Perhaps there's
a look alike such that it fits.  Those guys are about 15-20 bucks depending
on the amperage ( longer running time, higher torque, etc.)
Hope this helps. 

Note 9 in OCTAVE::GADGETS discusses NiCad batteries in great detail.
KP7 or SELECT to add it to your notebook.

        ...as does the RC conference (long filespec - don't remember it
        offhand) . If you can open up the battery pack without damaging
        it, you can replace the six cells for something around $5 per
        cell. Any good hobby shop selling RC electric cars would have the
        1.2Ah sub-C cells that most of these tools use.
        
        There are also several notes on how to "zap" dead cells back to
        life. Please read all of the cautions before trying this; I'd hate
        to lose a noter.

    My brother-in-law had the same problem trying to locate a new battery
    for his Ryobi (7.2 volt).  I believe Woodworkers Warehouse (Trendlines)
    can get one for you for about $40 or so, but it might take them a
    while.  I have seen them at Spags occasionally, but not the last time I
    was there.  
    
    BTW, I own several Ryobi tools (not battery operated) and really like
    them, but I wouldn't buy their cordless stuff because of their apparent
    lack of support for them.  It's pretty silly to market a high quality,
    long lasting tool and not make available the parts that are expected to
    be replaced periodically - like batteries.
    
    Bob

    Before you buy anything read the notes in GADGETS and RC. It seems that
    NiCads have a memory, and if not FULLY discharged will not take a full
    recharge. If the shortened cycle continues the battery ends up being
    just about useless - aand there is nothing really wrong with it. These
    other conferences describe how to fully drain the NiCads safely so they
    can be properly recharged.
    
    TPV
    

Re: .5

NiCad memory is a myth.  It got started because manufacturers make
cheap/dumb rechargers that dammage the cells if they weren't ready to
take a "full" charge. That's not to say you shouldn't be careful anyway
because very few people provide "smart" chargers, it's just that the
"memory" explaination is a misunderstanding of what was really
happening. (Don't bother asking the sales type if it has a "smart"
charger -- the answer would probably reflect the desire for a sale more
than the design of the charger.)

>>>==>PStJTT

   re -.1
     Could be true.  My brother is really into RC and the charger he has 
does what you describe as a smart charger.  BUT... The device also allows
safe discharging for "full" recharging.  You might want to get one of those
(about $50)  worth it, since you can put a full charge on the battery in just
30 minutes.  You won't go through so many other batteries either. 

    I'm just restating what transpired in those other conferences, and in
    the VIDEO conf. I paid particular attention to the notes in VIDEO when
    I was researching camcorders. If the memory is a myth as you say, then
    how do you explain the fact that if you discharge the battery with a
    drain such as a flashlight bulb the battery works properly after that?
    If a smart recharger discharges the battery before starting a recharge
    cycle as described in .7 then this show that you must discharge first,
    then recharge to keep the batteries viable, no?
    
    Again, i'm just restating what I've heard and read. I got a camcorder
    with a lead acid battery pack. It just sounded like a lot less
    headaches in the long run. 

OK, I'll just restate what I've read also.  My source is General
Electric's Nickle-Cadmium Battery Application Handbook, I got pointed
to the source from a discussion that occured recently about NiCads in
rec.radio.amateur.misc on the usenet.

GE, who formerly backed the memory theory, recanted stating that it was
an effect of chronic overcharge.  The effect will only appear on a
discharge following an extended overcharge and will reapper if the
overcharge is repeated. They explain that deep-cycling to "cure" the
effect reconditions the material in the battery that had been damaged
by overcharging.  When followed by a proper charging cycle, the battery
again behaves as normal.

The important thing here is that it's not "shallow cycling" or
repetitive patters of discharging the battery that hurts it -- it's
overcharging.  "Smart" chargers use feedback from the cell to decide
when to stop charging, so there's never a "memory effect."  The normal
chargers that come with consumer electronics at best use a timer and
more conventionally just charge constantly and come with instructions
to the consumer that say "don't overcharge the cell.  Lots of help, huh?   

>>>==>PStJTT

    OK that explains the charge-dischard-recharge cycle in detail. I wasn't
    arguing with you, just trying to understand what you were saying. Even
    if it isn't the classic "memory" effect it sounds like the old standard
    chargers produce the "memory" effect without the consumer knowing it.
    
    I wonder how much of this is "Battery no good- can't hold a full
    charge-need a new battery" is deliberate on the part of the battery
    manufacturers.
    
    TPV

How much of battery replacement is a deliberate act of the
manufacturers?  I'd say none of it.  I've been around manufacturing for
a long time and I've never met anyone who deliberately sets out to make
a bad product.  In the case of consumer electronics, the margins are
low and for competitive reasons it would be nearly impossible to change
from cheap chargers to more expensive ones. (I'll spare you the
diatribe on consumer pricing of manufactured goods.)  The only hope
would be after-market chargers, but that would require a
standardization effort for batteries that I don't think will happen for
a long time yet.

>>>==>PStJTT

I remember seeing a digression recently about battery chargers, but couldn't 
find it -- so I'm placing this here.  It's an article from the 17-June 1991 
issue of Design News, page 38.

'Smart' charger extends battery life.

Fort Lee, NJ --  Intech Corporation's microprocessor-controlled battery 
re-charger re-formats the electro-chemical balance in power tool batteries to 
ensure extended life and optimum torque performance.

The automatic and self-diagnostic re-charger mixes and re-layers residual 
charge to prevent crystallization of a battery's electrolyte.  The 10- to 
90-minute process achieves a new electrochemical balance within the battery, 
eliminating current surges and drop-outs.

During recharge, the device inspects inserted batteries for voltage, 
temperature, polarization, and short-circuit.  The inserted batteries retain 
energy since the re-charger emits a constant charge-conservation current.  A 
green light indicates full charge.

Models come with four to 12 ports and a variety of adapters for power tool 
batteries.  Other features:  charging slots that are polarization and 
short-circuit proof, an automatic, fail-safe, shut-off buzzer/light system 
that prevents mal-functioning, and a built-in ventilator that cools batteries 
even under peak load.

								-- Chuck Newman

    I have a Delta bench mount drill press with a chuck that keeps falling
    off.  I have reread the instructions to "tap" it on, used the arm to
    "press" it on but to no avail.. it appears to be a friction fit.. no
    keys no ring washer.. just a tapered top piece and the chuck... anybody
    know what to do?
    
    Thanks
    
    Bob

    Is it the whole chuck thats coming off? My sears drill press has a
    chuck that is screwed on. I haven't heard of one that is pressed
    on.....
    
    Marc H.

    
    Yep, there are drill chucks that use a taper shank for holding the
    chuck to the shank.  The chuck and shank must be burr and grease free. 
    Clean with alcohol and use a piece of wood to tap the two back together.
    
    Gary

    Make sure there are no burrs or dirt either on the taper shank
    or in the socket. Press together, and it should hold.  If it's
    a cheap chuck, you may want to buy a better one.  Travers Tool
    Co, Box 1550, Flushing, NY, 11354, is a good reliable mail-order
    source for all kinds of machine shop stuff, including drill
    chucks.  They publish a big free catalog.  (N.b. there are lots
    of different tapers used, so you'll have to figure out which one
    you have so you can buy the right chuck.  It may be stamped on 
    the chuck you have.)

 Had that problem with mine a while back.

 Would clean it, crocus cloth both inside the chuck and the quill arbor itself 
and it would always work loose again.

 Cleaned everything up again and used powdered rosin on the quill and inside 
the chuck and it's been firmly in place for over 2 years now.

I have the Delta 16-1/2" floor drill press (17-900) and had exactly the same
problem.  I believe it was the last incarnation of the Eng-In-Miniature notes
conference, there was a discussion about this kind of slippage.  The solution
proposed, and that worked for me, was to clean the taper of the quill as well
as the taper of the chuck.  Once I got the two pieces clean, there were no
problems having the chuck stay on the quill.  In the past three years, it has
held on fine with nothing more than a friction fit.

- Mark

    re: .4
    Be careful with the crocus cloth!  Once you get going with a hand-
    held abrasive, there is no way to know what you are doing to the
    taper angle. If there are burrs, clean 'em off with a small oilstone
    and/or file (a round file if you need to clean up the socket).
    
    Assuming the taper is correctly made, and is clean, it will LOCK
    when put together.  A friend, who is a machinist, gave a most
    impressive demonstration of this once.  He has a set of high-
    precison male/female taper gages for some largish taper or other - 
    about Morse #4, or so.  There's a socket, and a tapered plug, made 
    to great precision.  He cleaned the socket and plug well with solvent, 
    then lightly dropped the plug into the socket...and at that point 
    couldn't pull it out, or even turn it with a pipe wrench.  He had 
    to rap on the small end of the plug (the bottom of the socket is open) 
    with a brass hammer to get it free.
    Then he took his fingers, rubbed them over his nose and forehead, rubbed
    them over the plug, and dropped the plug in the socket again.  It
    bounced. It would not lock, no matter what.  So...it doesn't take
    much of an oil film to get in the way!  Now, your drill press spindle
    taper and drill chuck socket aren't made to that kind of precision
    and don't have such a fine surface finish, so they won't be quite that
    finicky.  If you get everything right (and if the parts are made
    sufficiently well!) they ought to lock without extra help.  If any
    of those conditions aren't met...well, then you go to powdered rosin
    and such.

RE: <<< Note 4911.6 by VERGA::WELLCOME "Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30" >>>

>    Be careful with the crocus cloth!  Once you get going with a hand-
>    held abrasive, there is no way to know what you are doing to the
>    taper angle. If there are burrs, clean 'em off with a small oilstone
>    and/or file (a round file if you need to clean up the socket).
 
 <snip>
   
>    much of an oil film to get in the way!  Now, your drill press spindle
>    taper and drill chuck socket aren't made to that kind of precision
>    and don't have such a fine surface finish, so they won't be quite that
>    finicky.  If you get everything right (and if the parts are made
>    sufficiently well!) they ought to lock without extra help.  If any
>    of those conditions aren't met...well, then you go to powdered rosin
>    and such.


 I agree. I guess I lucked out and got one that needed some extra help. :-)

 Being as the press spindle finish looked like it had been final finished with 
a hand held rough cut bastard file, the crocus cloth treatment improved it 
quite a bit. :-) I was able to at least get rid of the striations, (tool 
marks) on the spindle that were hampering a good fit. You had to see it before 
I worked on it to believe how bad it was. It musta been a Friday drill 
press... :-)

 For an example of holding power, I've got an Albrecth keyless chuck on a 5/8" 
arbor I use in the milling machine that uses the "JT" taper fit and that works 
as it should with nothing more than degreasing everything before putting it 
together. I got a 1/2" drill bit stuck once and stopped dead as it broke 
through some thick steel stock I was drilling and expected the chuck to spin 
on the arbor or the drill... It didn't.. The arbor stayed still, the chuck 
stayed still, the drill stayed still and the collet holding the arbor spun! so 
yes they do have some kind of holding power when the surfaces properly mate.