Conference 7.286::home_work

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
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Note 1326.3                   CHIMNEY SWEEP NEEDED                        3 of 4
FANTUM::JSULLIVAN                                     9 lines   7-AUG-1987 14:48
                                -< cheap sweep >-
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    I lived in Derry NH for many years and found a sweep from Hamstead
     
    NH who was cheap and reliable.Hank's chimney sweep 329-5058.He was
    
    quite a character,but did good work for little money.Then (2 yrs
    
    ago) $35/chimney.
    
                      Jack

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1326.4                   CHIMNEY SWEEP NEEDED                        4 of 4
CRETE::FLANNERY                                       4 lines   7-AUG-1987 15:15
                                 -< Northwind >-
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    Northwind Chimney Sweeping in Northboro did a good job
    on ours.  They came out to Sterling so you could check
    on Bradford.
    

    
    I have used 'the chimney doctor' out of Concord for
    the last 3 years.  They do good work, are neat, and generally
    come at the scheduled time, and work quickly.
    call them at 369-7072...they cover a wide area around 
    suburban Boston.
    
    deb
    

    I had the Chimney Doctor out yesterday.  They inspected both the
    fireplace and oil burner flues, and told me both were immaculate. They
    charged $30 for the inspection.  If they had cleaned, it would have
    been $75 for the first flue, and $45 for each additional one.
    
    I asked for an estimate for a chimney cap, since I had a racoon in the
    chimney over the summer.  The gave me an estimate of $381, including
    installation.  That seemed very high to me.  They said that it was an
    unusual chimney, being something like 45" x 17"  (I don't remember the
    exact dimensions).  Can anyone recommend a cheaper source for these?
    
    Thanks.
    -pd

    In our old house w/ a woodstove, we used "Olde Country Chimney Sweeps".
    They are listed in the yellow pages, but I've got an old book...3
    numbers are listed:
    
    		Manchester:	625-6801
    		Auburn:		483-5056
    		Merrimack:	424-2434
    
    I used to get a recording a lot.  The service was timely (they showed
    up on the day/time agreed to) and they did a decent enough job.
    
    I think the charge for our chimney was $45 a year ago and we had
    a split entry type house.
    
    	Ted
    

    In Merrimack there's the Red House Chimney Sweeps @424-9655.  I
    have not used them but they were recommended to me as a reputable
    group.
    
    Julie
    

    I highly recommend Neighborhood Pressure Washing.  Ron cleaned my
    deck and cement steps and they look brand new.  Ron cleans vinyl,
    wood and will pre-clean your house before it's painted.  He's very
    reasonable with his prices.  Ron works in the Acton, Concord, Stow
    area.  Call Ron at 508/537-8502.

	Just a quick note on exterior house cleaning. I just had my 20 year
	old aluminum siding heat/steam cleaned and It looks like the house 
	was just sided! I had hunted around for a good contractor and found
	an exceptional one who is very service oriented.

	He is 	Mike Spinney	Owner of;

		Mobile Steam cleaning Services
		P.O.Box 5633
		Marlboro Ma.	(508)562-4193

	I have a large garrison Colonial and he spent 3 hours doing the job
	and charged me 150.00 greenbacks! He wanted to be sure I was satisfied
	and anything I wanted he did (without changing the price!) he's a 
	young guy who has been in the business for 2 years and is willing to do
	whatever you want. I HIGHLY reccomend this person and know you would be 
	satisfied. LEt us know if you agree (if you use him)

			Roger

I looked through here and didn't find this anywhere. 

Does anyone know or can anyone recommend any Chimney-sweeps in the Worcester or
areas just west of Worcester area??

Cowboy

    Look harder.  They're under miscellaneous contractors, in note 2027.
    
       Gary

    I've looked in note 1111.24 for any topics concerning chimney cleaning
    but couldn't find anything. 
    I live out in Phillipston and have not had my chimney (with a woodstove
    insert) cleaned since I bought my house 2 years ago. I don't use my
    woodstove that often especially this past year since starting the
    kitchen remodelling.
    
    There is the possibility of a man from A-1 chimney sweeps coming out
    this Sunday to inspect my chimney. (He'll be in the area)
    I have a couple of questions
    1) Has anyone used this company (I think it's a one-man operation)
    before?
    
    2) I asked if they have insurance and the woman said no. Is this
    common? I would have thought that most places would have insurance
    or is it a case of being too expensive for small companies?
    
    3) According to this woman (who answers the phone and arranges the
    cleaning dates), the man would take out the woodstove insert and clean
    both the chimney flue and the stove pipe coming out of the insert. Is
    this also common?
    
    4) With a woodstove insert in place, would I be able to check out the
    condition of the chimney or would I need to take the insert out.
    There is a chimney door (? I have no idea the technical term) in the
    chimney base down in the basement.
    
    				Cindy
    

I wouldn't have believed that we could get 3500 notes without one devoted to 
chimney cleaning, but it seems to be true.  I'm sure there are several 
digressions about it, but no particular note.  So have at it.

No recommendations for the chimney sweep company here though, please. See note
2027, there are several chimney sweep recommendations already. 

Paul

    

    My suggestion is to buy the equipment and do it yourself. It's about
    as expensive as 1 cleaning buy a professional. It's also not that
    hard to do, and in many cases you won't have to use a ladder.
    
    Mike

    If you need a benchmark, chimney cleaning typically goes for $50-60
    per flue.
    
    It didn't appeal to me to do it myself.  I had no heavy tarp, big
    vacuum cleaner, tools, nor did I like the idea of standing on the
    peak of my house, 2 1/2 stories above the ground, making violent
    motions with a cleaning rod.  When I finished, what was I going
    to do with a pile of sooty coke?  To each his own, huh?
    
    pbm
    

      I have a device called "Chimney Cleaner". I clean my chimney
    every 3 weeks in the winter from inside my house... No biggie...
    
    I have a 2 story house with a full celler where the wood stove is.
    This CC is a device that hooks on top of my chimney with a pulley.
    The brush is hooked on a chain so I run the CC up the chimney like
    a flag-pole. Does a very good job and it only cost me $150.00 to
    buy. I clean it with the wood stove going, and when I want/need
    to clean it!
    
    If any one wants more in formation please let me know, the company
    is out of maine. I have the phone number and a copy of the whole
    thing. So if you want to know more send me mail with your mail stop
    and I'll send it right out to you!
    
           Rick King

    From my experience, I am always a little leary of somebody doing
    work at my house because "he'll be in the area that day" and more
    leary of those who carry no insurance - if he gets hurt on your
    property - it can turn out to be a real big and long legal issue.
    
    I agree to do it yourself. A bit of info may help, if you have a
    stainless steel liner in your chimney, use a Polyester (at least a 
    non-steel) brush for cleaning. If you have a really simple install-
    ation, I would pull out the stove and put a TIGHT & STRONG plastic
    bag over the bottom of the chimney opening - do you brushing - then 
    cleanout the exhaust from the stove and put things back together.
    
    My guess is that the cleanout trap (the little door you mentioned)
    was for cleaning out the ashes that would have been dumped from 
    what was originally a fireplace. Anyway when you pull the stove
    you can determine this.
    
    If you use the plastic bag route, make sure the bag is resting on some-
    thing solid; otherwise the impact of the soot will knock it free from 
    it grip on the bottom of the chimney - and that make an awful mess - 
    don't ask me how I know!!!

    Well, I'm definitely not going to do the chimney cleaning. I hate
    heights and knowing my luck lately, I'd be struck by lightning.
    
    According to the woman I spoke to at A-1, the man is supposed to be in
    phillipston this sunday for a cleaning, and would have time to inspect
    my chimney but not do the cleaning. 
    
    Is it typically for these one-man shows not to carry insurance? I'm
    sure that this is a side-job for this man so I imagine it would cost
    too much for insurance.
    		Cindy
    

    
    I've cleaned my chimney twice since I've had it built nd I've yet
    to get on a ladder. The poles I got are made of fiberglass which
    are very flexible. This allows me to clean the chimney out from
    the bottom.
    
    Mike

I'm sure what I used to do when I ran my woodstoves was sub-optimal, but I'd
clean the chimney from on the roof while the stove was attached (to keep the
dust out of the house).  Then, after I cleaned the chimney, I'd remove the
stove pipe and what didn't fall into the stove pipe simply fell to the bottom
of the fireplace.

As for the second stove which vented through the ceiling, I'd tape a plastic
garbage bag to the assembly in the ceiling and run my pole though a small hole 
in the bag.  Any junk that fell through the flue landed in the bag.  Simple
and neat.

The nice thing about doing it yourself is you can make up for the lack of a
more formal cleaning by doing it more frequently.  At least that was my
theory.  I could do both stoves in under an hour.

-mark

We bought our house and moved in last April... The fire chief and building
inspector of our Town inspected the chimney and gave it a good grade.  My
husband and I had probably a total of two or three fires in the fireplace, since
it was early spring when we moved in.

My question is this:  Shouldn't the chimney still be okay to use this year...
without any specific cleaning or inspecting?  We've never had a fireplace before
and so we're both very concerned that we "do things right," to prevent any
problems.  Your opinions?  Thanks!

Marcia [Mrs. Kip]

    It should still be OK.  Fireplaces typically burn hotter than air-tight
    stoves, thus creating less of a creosote buildup.
    
    But, I suspect you'll soon cut down on how often you use the fireplace,
    considering the cleanup that's required...drapes, carpet, firebox,
    flue, down-drafts blowing smoke into the house, etc.
    
    Our old house had one.  In 8 years, we used it maybe 10 times, 7 of
    those with duraflame logs.  Enjoy.  :-)
    
    New house doesn't have one (nor a wood stove) and we much prefer the
    wall space.
    
    	Ted

    I had someone from A-1 chimney sweeps in (might have been the owner). 
    Anyway, he was VERY honest, and said that the chimney was extremely 
    clean and that it could probably go a couple of years without cleaning.
    
    I did ask how often it needs to be cleaned - rule of thumb, every 2 - 3 
    cords of wood assuming you have hot fires.
    			Cindy
    

    RE:  .10  Romantic?  Oh, absolutely!  I have dreams about Christmas,
    the tree, the lights, the fireplace... Ohhhh, enough about my personal
    dreams!

Dry evergreens burn impressively. I got rid of mine last winter a little at a
time after Christmas. I don't think I'd want to have the tree to close to that 
roaring fire though.

    I'm sure this isn't a very good idea but ..... when I grew up, we were
    living in a very old Victorian house, fireplace in every room.  With
    the exception of 2 fireplaces downstairs, all the others were boarded
    off.  I lived there about 15 years, and we had fires ALL winter long,
    and burned whatever kind of wood was available (thus LOTS of pine and
    wet sappy wood).  The fires were always *ROARING* hot, extending
    several feet up the chimney at their hottest moments, and you could
    never sit directly in front of one.
    Anyway, I'm almost positive we _never_ had the chimneys swept in
    that house, in the whole 15 years.  I know towards the last few years
    that I lived there, my mom wasn't using one of the fireplaces because
    she was worried about the soot.  
    Maybe having the fires that hot saved our buns, but I honestly wonder
    if people are going a little overboard cleaning out a chimney every
    couple of years, in which the fireplace is only used a few times a
    year.  We burned (I'd guess) about 1 1/2-2 cords wood per fireplace (2
    chimneys) every year.  The only problem we ever had was with a bird
    nest one year.
    
    Just so you don't think we're totally negligent people, we couldn't GET
    anyone to sweep the chimneys .... the roof was too high to approach from
    the top, and there was something about the poles not being long
    enough to sweep from the bottom??  
                                            

>    Just so you don't think we're totally negligent people, we couldn't GET
>    anyone to sweep the chimneys .... the roof was too high ...

Um...  If you had a swimming pool which you think might be full of
hazardous waste, but you can't get anybody to drain it, would you swim in
it?

Hot fires deposit less creosote, that's well known. So long as the smoke in
the stack is hotter than (I think) 250�F, it doesn't condense (much)
creosote. However, since smoke cools as it rises in a very tall chimney,
and since every fire dies out sometime, I wouldn't trust hot fires to keep
a chimney clean. If you try this technique, and you're wrong, you're
looking at a chimney fire.

I had a flue cap catch fire once. It burned out safely after I starved the
fire by shutting all the air off at the stove (I always seal around all
stovepipe connections, including into the stove and into the fireplace,
with furnace cement to keep things airtight), but it's still a frightening
experience.

    Re: .14
    
    In my house, if we don't have the chimney cleaned at least twice
    a year we end up with chimney fires. In fact, after my second
    annual Thanksgiving holiday, house-clearing chimney fire I've
    gone to three times a year. 
    
    A little overkill perhaps but it sure beats the alternative.
    
    							Hank
    

    
    
      Sounds like your chimney is either poorly designed or somethings
    amuck. I would have it check out by a pro. 
    
    

    Re: .16
    
    Hey Hank, whatcha burning, railroad ties??? :^)
    
    Chuck

    If you have a clean out door, you can stick a mirror in and look
    up and see how dirty it is.  This works the best on a bright after-
    noon.
    
    As far as buildup goes.  Todays stoves are "air tight" and tend
    to get closed up and smolder with green wood.  If you have one
    of these, clean your pipe and flue often.  My uncle has a fire-
    place he uses most all winter.  Pine, 1/2 dry wood.  The fires
    are hot and the flue has never been cleaned.  Dosnt need it!
    
    JD

Has anyone in here cleaned their own chimney?  I just looked at our 12x12 tile
flue, and saw what looked like black enamel paint coating the insides.  It
was the thickness of one coat of paint, too - not the 1/2" of crud I've heard
about.

Is this enough to worry about?  Is it even cleanable?  I'd imagine you'd be
happy to get your 1/2" of creosote cleaned to this thickness.

Jon

For what it's worth, I just bought my chimney-cleaning supplies from Stove Barn,
in Amherst, NH (101A just west of Merrimack, right where 101A narrows to two
lanes).  Expenditures were:

- 12" x 12" brush                                        $41.00
  this was the better kind - a round-wire one was $32
- three six-foot fiberglass poles, $9.95 ea               29.85
- 5"" round brush, for my oval chimney connector          11.??
- some spray junk to help loosen creosote                  5.95
                                                          -----
                                               less than  89.00

If one professional cleaning job goes for $50 and up, it will have paid for
itself the second time.

(Also posted in OLUT::STOVES.)

    
    I do my own cleaning. I bought the stuff this year. It's much cheaper
    then having someone do it for you. I've seen chimney's (not mine)
    where you'd be lucky to push a 2x4 through it.
    
    Mike

    re:-2. That shiny black stuff is creosote.

>   re:-2. That shiny black stuff is creosote.

Yes, but should I try to scrape this paint-film-thick layer down to the bare
clay tiles?

    My experience is the crud in the chimney/woodstove connector is thicker
    and needs to be cleaned more often than the chimney itself.  We just
    use a wire brush for that.
    
    Elaine
    

    re:-2
    I don't think you'll get it all off. If you can pass the correct size 
    chimney brush down the entire length I'd say you have a clean
    chimney. The remaining creosote is like a thin layer of paint and while
    it may burn, if you overheat your chimney, there isn't that much there.
    Thats the way I clean mine and for me once a season is sufficent. I do
    take my stovepipe down once a month and wirebrush the insides of the
    pipe. That where I do see a build up and thats where I'd want the
    minumum chance of a fire. 
    
    Ray 

    Cindy, I dont think all your questions were answered.. As for question
    #2
    > I asked if they have insurance and the woman said no.  Is this
    common?
    
    I think I would be afraid to let someone on my house to work for
    me that didnt have insusrance.  If they get hurt you MAY be liable.(?)
    
    Everyoune I have talked to is in the business and has employees
    so they would have their owne insurance.  I also do my own cleaning
    but for an expert opinion of the safty of the chimney I want some
    one that knows what they are talking about.  Approx 35-40 bucks
    for some piece of mind is "almost free"!!
    
    As far as the buildup goes I have been instructed that if it exceede
    1/8" it's about time for a cleaning.  Creosote burns at approx. 2000 
    deg and can quickly destroy any tile chimney and if you have
    a leak such as a crack, and the creosote has run to the inside of
    the house, it isnt long that the fire is no longer contained inside
    the chimney.  
    
    I hope all your questions have been answered.  
    
    `Charlie'

    Hello:
    
      I'm looking for recommendations on interior house cleaning
      services (i.e., toilets, floors, dusting, etc.) in the Hollis, 
      NH area.
    
      I did a DIR and found Note 2805 - which referenced Shrewsbury, MA.
      I was also pointed to the 'Recommendations' notes - 2000 ---->
      specifically, note 2027.  However, 2027 has nothing to do with
      house cleaning services - it's for recommendations on ROOFERS.
    
      I found 2006 - which has a title of Cleaning Services / Chimney
      Sweeps, but this is all on exterior cleaning and chimneys.
    
      Am I missing something somewhere?  If I am, would someone please
      point me in the right direction?  Thanks.
    
                                     susan
                                                                        

    I would like to recommend New England Window Washers for window
    cleaning in the Nashua, NH area.  I recently had them clean all the
    windows and screens in my house, both interior and exterior.  They
    returned my initial phone call (a critical requirement of anyone I
    hire :-)), showed up on time (this, too, is critical), and did a
    very nice job at a fair price.
    
    Their phone number is 603-424-1631.

    For housecleaning in New Hampshire, see notes 73.* and 295.* in the
    CNOTES::NEW_HAMPSHIRE conference.  Here is my recommendation from June,
    1989.  I am still using them, and I am very happy.
    
================================================================================
Note 295.15                 Housecleaning references?                   15 of 22
SQLRUS::WASSERMAN "Deb Wasserman, DTN 264-1863"       6 lines  12-JUN-1989 12:25
                   -< Joy Marquis - Hollis/Nashua/Merrimack >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For housecleaning in the Nashua-Hollis-Merrimack area, I'd like to
    recommend Joy Marquis, 880-4588.  She works with another woman, and
    together they clean my 4-br, 2 1/2 bath house in about 3 hours.  They
    started last month, and so far I'm very happy.  They even make the bed!   
    Please tell her I recommended her.
    

    
    			Dan Hastings 
    		Masonry/chimney cleaning
    	 	Wilton NH  603 654 9057   ( Nashua area) But I know
    	      	he will travel a ways.
    			
    	I would recomend Dan for chimney cleaning, he has been cleaning
    my chimneys for 7 years, he is extremely neat and tidy, never leaves
    a mess and is also a very talented mason who specilaizes in Count
    Rumford style fireplaces, beehive ovens, restorations and repairs.
                                   
    

	I searched in this file and decided this is probably the best 
	place for this question. I've recently found thay my thimble
	(stove pipe to chimney flue connection) has a crack halfway
	between the interior wall and chimney flue. After talking this
	out with a number of sweeps, I guess it has something to do with
	the chimney footing settling, and this being a symptom of that.

	Either way, if it's due to heat or whatever, one sweep company
	wants to install a stainless steel sleeve which can be expensive
	and maybe(?) necessary. One sweep suggested that the Stove pipe
	that runs the entire thimble would be enough protection, and to
	make sure the stovepipe doesn't exit the thimble(into the chimney
	flue). The latter comment due to creosote running down the chimney
	flue and onto the stove pipe, and then finally down the sides of 
	stove pipe until it makes a bee-line for the crack in my thimble.

	Any suggestions?, the sweeps have indicated this to be fairly common
	because of flue tile being unforgiving to heat/footing problems.

    In response to your note 3543.4 about the "Chimney Cleaner" from
    a company in Maine, I would be very interested in any information
    that you could send me as I have a chimney made from block that
    is very inaccessible for cleaning.

    Hi
    
    I have a question regarding liner sizes....  
    
    To the best of my ability, I measured the the inner dimensions of the
    chimney lining for my woodstove.  This was a little difficult being
    that I had to do it through the cleanout which was a couple of feet
    below the beginning of the lining... hence... measurements may be off.
    
    Anyway, I measured 7"x7".  Supposidly, brushes come in a size for
    chimney linings that are 8"x8" o.d. and 8"x8" i.d.  Someone who has a
    brush that is the 8x8 o.d. says the brush is ~7 1/2 x 7 1/2.... would
    this be the right size for my chimney???  I've heard there isn't much
    give to the brush... does it have to be closer to exactly 7x7?
    
    thanks
    
    	-John

    Chimney liners should be a "standard" size. I would try to measure the
    actual flue size....then buy I brush for that size and use it.
    
    When I brush out my flue,I start at the chimney hearth and then go up.
    In the process,I have to sqeeze the brush down by about two inches....
    no problem.
    
    Marc H.

    Can anyone recommend a home cleaning service for the
    Newton/Watertown/Waltham/Wellesley Massachusetts area?
    
    thanks,
    
    -Gary

    
    Does anyone have recommendations for a good Chimney Sweep in the 
    Massachusetts area of Concord/Carlisle/Chelmsford/Billerica/Acton -
    and include price ranges?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kathy

    I got one of those rather annoying phone-calls-at-supper-time last
    night, from a chimney-cleaning company.  The lady on the other end
    wanted to know if we have a wood stove.  Well, we actually *do* have one,
    but we never use it, because my husband is very allergic to smoke -
    when we tried it, things were OK inside the house, but he could not
    step OUTSIDE the house without having trouble - he even has trouble
    when our neighbors' use their wood stoves.  So then she asked about the
    furnace, which is forced hot air from natural gas.  She then tried to
    tell me that the furnace's flu ought to be cleaned yearly.  I told her
    I wasn't interested (dinner was burning by this time - I guess I am too
    polite to these folks!) and hung up.  But now I wondering, should the
    flu actually be cleaned?  The lady intimated that the lining of it
    could deteriorate somehow.  I sort of doubt this one.  The flu is a
    galvanized steel pipe, which seems to have an inner and outer pipe, and
    it services the hot water heater and the furnace, which sit side by
    side in the basement.  The furnace pipe goes almost straight up.  The hot
    water pipe goes up at an angle and joins the furnace flu.  We actually
    had some problems for a while with the thermocouple of the furnace
    burning out, which the gas repairman blamed on the length of the flu
    pipe, saying that it took a while for it to start to draw, causing the
    thermocouple to overheat.  This hasn't happened in several years - we
    bought a supply of some other brand of thermocouple other than what the
    repairman put it (at his suggestion) and that seems to have fixed
    that problem.  The furnace has a pilot light, which I leave on even
    when it is not heating season, because it is very difficult to get it
    to light and stay lit.
    
    So, is the furnace's "chimney" something that actually ought to be
    cleaned?  I thought that natural gas burned so cleanly that there
    wasn't much left over, just water and carbon dioxide.  Since we
    replaced the thermostat many years ago with a setback one, the furnace
    only comes on rarely even on very cold days, and then it runs for a
    long time before shutting off, plenty of time for the flu to get good
    and hot, I would assume although I haven't been up on the roof next to
    it when the furnace was actually running.  (The new thermostat is
    actually sort of annoying in that the house gets uncomfortably cool
    before it turns on, and then it runs until the house is rather warm
    before it shuts off again, varying by about 5 degrees or so - this was
    supposed to be more efficient, which I suppose it is, but it is sort of
    annoying if you are sitting next to a heat register.)  I have lived in
    the house for 16 years, and it is 20 years old.  As far as I know the
    flu has never been cleaned.  Should I take the cover off of it and
    take a look?  I'd like to avoid shelling out money to have someone do
    this job right now unless not doing it is a real bad idea - we are
    trying to conserve cash these days.
    
    Anyone know?
    
    /Charlotte
                          

    Gas heat/hot water in my house for 30+ years. Flu/chimney never
    cleaned.
    
    Chimney shows NO sign of any buildup. Red clay liner clean from top to
    bottom. 
    
    Furnaced replaced 7 years ago. Crew reused old flu.
    
    Edd

About the only thing a gas furnace flue could have a problem with is a bit
of corrosion from the moisture in the exhaust.  The flue should be inspected
every several years, but cleaning is not generally necessary.

			Steve

    Has anyone ever heard of a company (1 man I think?) called
    CHIMNEY CARE OF NH ?
    
    This is in Merrimack NH.  We are thinking of having him reline a
    chimney for us and his rates seem very reasonable etc...
    
    Please don't confuse this with another company called Chimney Sweeps of
    NH (not the same).
    
     So if anyone has ever heard of this or has used him, please let me
     know.    
    
                                   Thanks,
    
                                               Perry F.
                                              ----------

	My husband and I have four chimney flues in our two year old
	house.  Two go to woodstoves, one we plan to use nightly, and
	the other we plan to use on weekends (it's in the basement).
	Another flue goes to the fireplace which we plan to rarely use.
	The fourth flue goes to the natural gas furnace.

	From what I can tell, based on our use, the primary woodstove flue 
	should be cleaned 2-3 times/year.  The other woodstove flue and
	fireplace flue should be cleaned once a year and the gas furnace
	probably never.  Well, this looks to be quite an expense so we
	would like to tackle it ourselves.

	Where can we get cleaning supplies in the Milford MA area?  Would
	HQ or Spags have it?

	I'd like to clean the flues from the inside, rather than from
	the roof..... is this as efficient?  Any recommendations in that
	department?

	The longest flues go from the basement, so probably 4 stories (we
	have a high attic).  The other two are 3 stories.  Based on the
	height of our flues, is it even possible to clean from the bottom,
	rather than the top?

	Karen

      After I entered this note, a co-worker told me that he had his chimney
      cleaned recently.  The chimney sweep used a burlap bag, filled with
      sand, which he lowered into the flue against one side of the flue
      and cleaned the side that way.

      Anybody ever try this method?

      Karen

Karen,

You can find fireplace cleaning supplies at the Fair in Milford.

Long ago we use to use bricks wrapped in chicken wire to clean the rough 
stuff of our flues.  I imagine burlap has the same effect.

I think that your best bet is to buy the long handled brushes.

Cal

Burning the stove hot every time you have a fire should keep you from 
having to clean the flue 3-4 times a year. Once a year is about right, 
although you can check for creosote buildup occasionally if you are 
nervous about it. I would have your flues professionally cleaned and talk 
to the cleaner about how oftern to clean, how to clean (watch what he/she 
does) and how to tell when it is time to clean, EG 1/4" of buildup, etc.

The regular brushes sold for the purpose are what my cleaner uses from the 
basement where the stove is. I have not seen him do it, but my wife has 
told me about it. He also uses a LARGE shop vac.....be prepared.... 8^)

First year or two, he gave me hell about burning the fire hotter, now he 
never says a thing about it, so I must be running it hot enough. The 
comment earlier about the thermometer is right on, get one and use it.

    	Vic

    
    
    Dont forget to check your stove pipe.  Depending on how long
    the distance is between the stove and the flue, you might
    get more of a buildup there then in the the flues itself.
    The sign I get is when I open up the door an some of the 
    smoke comes in the house.
    
    JD

    I got my brushes at SPAGS. I bought brushes for the round and square
    type of flues. Also, I bought flexible shafts that screw togethor,
    making any length you need. I clean the fireplaces from the inside,
    starting below and pushing up to the roof. The stove, I clean from the
    roof, down to the stove.
    
    If you don't mind cleaning up.....its not a big deal. Also, you get to
    inspect your chimney and save $$$$.
    
    Marc H.

Thanks for the info....

I'll be checking out the Fair and Spags shortly.

Now I'm heading to the woodstoves conference to find out how to light
the damn thing... we are having an awful time!!

Karen

    RE: .40
    
    Use matches?????
    
    Rubbing sticks takes awhile...
    
    :)
    :)
    Marc H.

  RE: .40

  Some of your problem lighting the woodstove might be due to how
  warm it is outside. The colder it is outside, the better draw
  is created and the stove will light better. In milder weather
  during autumn and spring, stoves are tougher to light.    

re .42:

>  Some of your problem lighting the woodstove might be due to how
>  warm it is outside. The colder it is outside, the better draw
>  is created and the stove will light better. In milder weather
>  during autumn and spring, stoves are tougher to light.    

Well, that depends on something.  My woodstove is a b$^%@ to get a draft when
it's cold, and to make matters worse it reverse drafts when it's really cold
and will smoke me out of the house if I'm not careful.  It's easy to get going
when it's warm..

-Mike

    If you have a window nearby, crack it open an inch or two to create
    some pressure.  I had the same problem once and opening a window did 
    the trick to get the fire going.  AFter it was established I closed
    the window.

re .44:

That's what I've been doing (open a door, actually).  It helps but is no
cure-all.  I'll experiment with opening a window on the opposite side of the
house this winter and see if this helps.

-Mike

	    In order to create a draft, you want to get the stove heated 
	as quickly as possible.  Chimney location, trees, hills, etc. and
	wind can work against you.  If down draft is a continuous problem,
	you can invest in a chimney cap that's designed to pull a draft
	no matter how the wind is blowing.  They're supposed to work well.
	    To light a fire, I use a little newspaper loosely rooled into
	a ball.  I place the paper between two hunks of firewood.  Place
	kindling (I've been using cedar scraps - works great) on top of
	the balled up paper.  Lay some bigger kindling on the wood `over' 
	the paper ball/kindling.  Light the paper and close the door.
	    Within 5 minutes, you should be able to start placing bigger
	pieces of wood inside the stove.  Don't try to rush it or you'll
	start smothering the fire and it will take longer to get going.

					Tim

    
    Re -1
    
    Careful Tim! There's an `air shredder' quip on it's way.
    
    I find that a squirt of barbecue lighter fluid never fails.
    Whe needs eyebrows anyway?
    
    Colin

    Colin, re "Air shreader"
    Darn, I though you were going to give away my secret...I hooked up the 
    air shreader to my wood stove and it created the best forced exhaust draft
    ever. I could get the stove pipe glowing hot in about two minutes... 
    
    All kidding aside, I use to have a draft inducer that hooked into my
    stove pipe...it worked great, cause I used to get down drafts that
    would fill my shop full of smoke. All because of the trees and
    location. (I fixed the trees though.....I burned um'.)
    
    
    Jim

    
    TMW - I thought you were out of the shredder business and
    selling "tailight trolling guns" now?  You're a man of diverse
    interests, I must say!
    
    C.
    
    

re .46:

I've been building fires since I was a kid of about 10 or so, so misbuilding a
fire isn't my problem.  One thing that I have to do in addition is to stuff a
couple sheets of newspaper up the chimney hole, light that first, watch the
rare phenomenom of inverted flames (shoot down instead of up), then the chimney
will switch to normal draft rather suddenly.  Then I can light the main fire.

If I don't do this on a cold day I get to "test the smoke detectors".

I'll have to look into a draft inducer or some method of pressurizing the
house.

-Mike

    Naw, Colin,
    I got into the indistructable mail box kick for a while. In fact
    Mike M. wants/needs one. 
    
    TMW...Jim
    
                            

    I just cleaned out my chimney with my FILs cleaner. Its a bit 
    different than conventional brushes that I've seen. Its a 
    contraption like a rectangular cage about 1.5 feet long and maybe
    4 inch square sides with 2 ropes from the top. You send it downn the
    chimney then yank one of the ropes and the cage opens up to the
    size of the inside of the chimney. You pull up on it with the other
    rope and can maintain a steady pressure on all 4 sides of the flue
    at once. If it jams you just give it some slack and it loosens up
    again. Did a nice job for me .
    
           Dean

When I was a youngster, my dad used to drop a rope down the flue, whack off 
a small hemlock or fir tree, tie it on the rope and pull it up the flue.  
Of course, we lived on about 18 acres of land and didn't have to run to the
local garden center and buy a hemlock for $35.

Stan

    I have used our fireplace for four years, and almost every night in the
    winter we had a fire. Who knows how long it's been since cleaned, or
    how much it was used by the prior owner...but I had a guy come out last 
    Tuesday to clean and inspect the firebox and flue system. 
    
    He said it didn't need cleaning and only charged me $20 for the
    inspection! He contributed the cleanlyness to 
    - seasoned hardwood (oak and maple)
    - Hot, smokeless fires.
    
    I believe I achieved this by scrapoing the grate that was orignally in 
    the firebox and began building fires on the floor of the box. Seemed to 
    be less smoke, longer burning and hotter fires, which also reduced my 
    wood consumption by quite a bit.
    
    Dave'
    

    
    Re: .54
    
    Fireplace flues have the advantage of having a _large_ volume of air
    flowing through them. This tends to get the creosote out of the flue
    before it has a change to condense. This is not true for most woodstove
    flues.
    
    JP

    
    For carpet cleaning in the area surrounding Townsend, MA, I can very
    highly recommend Royalty Carpet Cleaning (508-597-3290). This is a
    one-person operation run by Vinny, who may be the most consciencious,
    hard-working person I've ever met. He's done wonders with high-traffic
    areas, making the carpet look like new. He shows up on time, and his
    prices are excellent.
    

    I'm seeking a cleaning service to clean the interior common areas at
    our condominiums in Acton weekly.  If anyone has any recommendations,
    please let me know.
    
    Thanks!
    Beryl Nelson
    BEGIN::NELSON

	Recently I got a phone call from a chimney sweep company offering
	a special of $75 to clean our chimney.  This special expired at the
	end of August.  I told them I wanted to call other places to get
	comparisons and the quotes I got ranged from $55 to $125.  Well,
	I went with a guy who is charging $60 (only $25 if it really doesn't
	need cleaning but I'm sure it does).  The company was a local
	company in the business for 27 years and the man I talked to
	sounded very professional.  He told me that his special of $60
	ran all summer till October 1st after which his price goes up. By
	Xmas it will double.

	Now, the question is, where does this other company get off 
	charging $125 for their service at this time of year?  What are
	they offering that the $60 guy isn't?  Am I making a mistake
	by not using one of the chimney sweeps with the 1-800 phone numbers?

	Karen

    
    I suppose if he showed up in your driveway with a beat up old chevy
    wagon with beer cans in the back.  Some garbage bags.  Dress in a
    Tyvak suit ,a bag of bricks with chains with no vacuum!  Lookout!
    
    Their are some who do this as a side job and make some spending money
    during the year.  I'd more or less just check for references.  After
    all, A yellowpage ad dosnt always mean you get quality work. 
    Shop around.  It will save you a few bucks.  But just make sure of
    what you getting.
    
    JD  

Actually, the guy I found for $60 has been in the business 27 years 
(or so).  I saw his van this morning at somebody elses house.  Looks
new and has the company name on the side.  I didn't check references
but my gut instinct told me to go with him, not with the one that
charges $55.  I couldn't see paying $120 though!

Karen

I wonder if you should request proof of insurance like I did with my roofer.
If one were insured and the other not, I can see why that would effect their
prices.

-Bob

    Can anyone recommend:

    1) A chimney sweep/inspector
    2) An exterior house cleaning service (Vinyl siding)

    in the Hopkinton area?  Thanks in advance,

				Peter

	Hi Peter,

	As you might have read in my earlier replies to this topic
	(in the past week or so), I called several sweeps and got
	prices.  I'm going with Barry John Chimney Sweeps out of
	Franklin.  They cost $60 to clean 1 flue (my house is 2
	stories plus the attic... not sure if price has anything
	to do with height of chimney).  I live in Milford and he
	had no problem coming there so I imagine Hopkington would
	be no problem either.  I got estimates from $55 to $125.
	Couldn't see any benefits that go with paying $125 so I
	went with the $60 quote!

	Anyhow, he is coming tomorrow so I haven't had the work
	done yet.  If you send me mail Monday I can give you my
	impressions then.  

	Karen

    	I have someone coming to Auburn, NH this Saturday. He charges $50
    per flue and we have two flues. We also have a $5 coupon. I think the
    name of the company is D&D. My wife made the arrangements so I don't
    have that much info.
    
    	I'll try to remember to put something in Monday as to the results
    if anyone is interested.
    
    	Ray
    
    BTW - My wife called a few local companies and they all seemed to be
    $50 - $55 per flue.

Is it necessary to clean a flue that's used exclusively for a 
coal stove?

thanks
daryll

    Re: .27
    
    Only if its dirty!
    
    Seriously, check the flue. Coal leaves behind soot, which isn't as bad
    as creosote. If the soot is just a small amount, brush it out yourself.
    
    Marc H.

    If you're burning good Bethlehem or Reading anthracite, I doubt you'll
    have a problem.  

Thanks,

I did check the flue the past couple years and it looked really 
clean. Although I know cresote isn't a problem, I was wondering 
if there were any other reason for cleaning.

Looks like I'm all set.

daryll

Oh and FWIW, I noticed BLDG 19 in Manchester had flue brushes in 
various sizes. 

daryll

    	Well, I missed the chimney sweep, but he's coming back today to
    give an estimate for some repairs. There is a cement slab that sits on
    top of the chimney that's falling apart and needs to be replaced. He
    also said that there were cracks in the section in the basement that
    the furnace connects to and that the whole section needs to be
    replaced or we'll be coughing up blood from noxious fumes if we try to
    run the heat.
    
    	I'm going to ask him exactly what needs to be done and I may try to
    do the repairs myself, depending on what's involved.
    
    	One of the things that I didn't care too much for was he tried to
    tell me how bad it was and that because it was so bad, my insurance
    would not cover it if something happened. Maybe it's just me, but this
    and the coughing up blood business came across as a scare tactic.
    
    	I'll reserve judgement on whether I want to go with them until
    after I meet him tonight for an estimate. The strange thing was he made
    a statement saying that he's never seen anything quite that bad before.
    According to my wife, who was there, he is not one of the guys that
    came to do the chimney sweeping. This means he's never even seen it yet
    if this is true. I'll know more tonight as my wife will be there too.
    
    	Ray

    Re: .32
    
    Make sure that *you* see and understand the damage. Don't take his
    /her word for it.
    
    Marc H.

    	I did see the damage to the cement slab from the ground (I
    currently don't own a ladder that can reach the roof). It's as if it 
    just deteriorated. I don't recall seeing it before we bought the house,
    but I also don't remember looking up there.
    
    	I may or may not decide to replace it with a cement slab. I have a 
    piece of 1" thick slate that came with the house that I may be able to 
    cut to size. This may be a more permanent repair.
    
    	The section of block supposedly needing replacement did not look 
    that bad to me. I did see where it looked as though some water leaked 
    from somewhere and a couple hair-line fractures. It didn't look like
    anything some masonary sealer of some kind couldn't fix. The block is 
    the rectangular orange block (flue liner ?) and is mortered together. 
    It did strke me as odd than neither flue had a clean out.
    
    	I'll be watching/listening to this guy closely. When I talked to 
    him yesterday, it's almost as if he expected to be dealing with my wife 
    and that it caught him off guard when I came to the phone. The tone of 
    his voice almost sounded defensive. Maybe I'm reading more into this than 
    there really is. In any event, thanks for the advice.
    
    	Ray

there's nothing to stop you from getting a second opinion, especially if you are
skeptical.  Maybe you could ask someone from the fire department to inspect?

Elaine

    RE: .34
    
    Ray,
     Watch this person carefully. If the cement slab you are talking about
    is a chimney cap.....the 1 inch piece of slate should work fine.
    Cracks in the actual flue liner are the main problem area for chimneys.
    The potential problem is that in the event of a chimney fire, hot
    flames would get into the wood part of your house from the cracks.
    Thats the main problem.
    
    On the outside of the chimney, cracks in the bricks/joints can let
    in water and cause more damage with the freeze cycle.
    
    Chimney repair is important...but...don't let the "pro's" cause you
    to waste your $$$$$.
    
    Marc H.

    
      Even though I haven't seen this and it *could* be bad, my gut
    reaction to this is that the guy is trying to scare you into getting
    him do some work for you. The chimney cap is only there to keep water
    from running down inside the chimney between the liner and the bricks.
    It has no effect on how well the chimney will function. And as far as
    cracks in the liner go, yeah, they aren't great, but the purpose of the
    liner is mostly to protect the house from a chimney fire, which can
    only happen if you have a wood stove/creosote problem. Unless the
    scetions are *broken* and falling into the chimney, thus blocking it,
    it will draw out flue gasses just fine with or without cracks. The
    reason is that as as soon as the chimney warms even a little and starts
    drawing, the draft goes into/up it. If you need proof, just look at a
    gas water heater or a gas furnace, they have large OPENINGS on the
    bottom of what is called the draft hood - only inches from where the
    burned gasses go past. If they couldn't *reliably* draw up and out,
    people would die of CO poisioning, and they don't.
    
    				Kenny

    re: .37
    Ditto.  

    	As was mentioned in previous notes, this guys main concern was with
    the cracks. He came last night and said that what I had was very
    dangerous.
    
    	One of the problems that I can see clearly (aside from the cracks)
    is that when the builder punched through to the basement with the clay 
    pipe, the hole does not line up properly so the clay tile that it meets 
    with is shifted about .5". The gap is filled with cement, 
    
    	He did say feel free to get other people in to look at at. He said
    that it was bad enough that if the building inspector came, he may even
    condemn the house until it was fixed.
    
    	At this point, I'm not using the heat so I have time to get other
    opinions. Before I bought the house I had a home inspection done. The
    person that did it is the ex-building inspector for Derry. He did not
    indicate that any severe problem existed. 
    
    	One thing this inspector did miss is that the pipe from the furnace 
    enters the flue in a downward direction. It does make sense that this 
    should be pointing in an upward direction (cause hot air rises), but 
    that's something I can easily fix myself.
    
    	Guess it's time to get a few people in. My wife called the local
    fire chief and I'm going to try to get the building inspector to check
    it out. If it's as bad as this guy claims it is, he said that I would
    have legal recourse with the home inspector. We'll see is all I can
    say.

    Re: .39
    
    What is the "legal recourse with the home inspector"
    
    Marc H.  

    	re: legalities
    
    	I called my laywer and he said that both the previous owner and the
    home inspector are liable (to what degree I don't know). The reason the
    previous home owner has liability is that she provided a disclosure
    statement that said the chimney was in good shape. 
    
    	The chimney sweep is saying that when you pay a guy to find this 
    kind of stuff, and something this obvious should not have been missed, 
    he can be held liable. My "guess" is that they would be liable up to 
    what they charged you to perform the inspection, at a minimum.
    
    	If this is true, it really stinks. I could have easily negotiated
    the repair of this into the selling price of the house had I known. I've 
    never owned a house with a chimney before so I did have to depend on
    the inspection in this area. After checking, this home inspector was 
    the ex-fire inspector for Derry, not the building inspector. If anyone 
    should know whether this is a real problem it should have been him. 
    
    	Again, maybe it's not as big a deal (danger) as this chimney
    sweep is making it out to be, but in any case, it obviously isn't
    right. Now it's going to be a hassle and, at least initially, come out 
    of my pocket to make it right :-(
    
    	Ray

    I think alot of building inspectors are BLIND.  I recently purchased
    a house, prior to closing the owner had the FD out for the smoke
    detector inspection and he also decided to have the three stoves,
    two coal and one wood properly inspected by the towns building
    inspector.   The town made him take out a building permit and then
    the inspector came out and signed it off saying the installations
    all met code.
    
    Well after moving in and getting aquainted with the house and reading
    all these files I learned that you cannot (legally) mix a coal
    stove and a LPG water heater into the same chimmney flu.  Well
    the coal stove in the kitchen vents directly into the same flu,
    very obvious. But to make sure I went up onto the roof and verified
    it.    I called the inspector at home and asked him why he approved
    the installation.   He said he did not notice that and he does not
    make a practice of going up on roofs and checking flu's.  
    
    The other interesting thing is that the same stove in the kitchen
    was as full as possible with coal ash, and the hopper was packed
    with old bills and mail.  How can this guy even say he did an
    inspection...
    
    Any thoughts on what I should do??

    RE: .42
    
    Me? I would fix the problem. I wouldn't blame anyone or try to get
    money from the inspector. I would take the responsibility on as
    *my* problem.
    
    By the way, in Ma., you could vent a coal stove into the same
    flue as an oil burner in the past. I don't have my current laws
    at hand, but, you might find that it was/is legal to vent the coal
    stove into the same flue.
    
    When you pay an inspector, you take your chance...just like anything
    else in life. Blaming everyone else and trying to use lawyers to solve
    every problem bothers me a lot...sorry.
    
    By the way, the home inspector on my current house missed many, many
    problems. I'm fixing them myself.
    
    Marc H.

    
      Ditto, Marc. 
    
      My home inspector missed many things also. And he is one of the most
    highly regarded, even in this file. I also believe that there is/was
    some disclaimer that the home inspoector had me sign that said
    something to the effect that he couldn't be responsible for missed
    things.
    
    		Kenny_who_also_does_not_like_lawyers_or_spreading_blame
    

    I agree that the home inspectors will not find everything nor are
    they to blame for things not discovered.  My point .42 was that this
    was the town building inspector, inspecting a stove installation
    (very specific) on a building permit. 
    
    When I spoke to the guy on the phone he even asked me how I managed
    to get the lot subdivided.  This was done by the previous owners
    when they built on a family farm.  I told him it was done 17 years
    ago and he was the one on the zoning board that approved and signed
    the plan...

    
    I agree that this suing business is out of control, but the point of
    training and licensing home inspectors is not just to protect fiscal
    investment.  If you don't at least make them aware of your
    dissatisfaction, then the whole process becomes just another $200
    bill on your closing costs.
    
    There's a society called ASHI that is supposed to take compliants
    against member home inspectors. The address is Suite 250, 1629 K
    Street, Washington D.C  20006.  I guess it's location has nothing to do
    with lobbying for it's members interests!
    
    This institution was very good at providing me with info, and I'm
    really happy with the quality of the work done by the ASHI member who
    inspected my house.  (Carlson Inspection Associates of Arlington.)
    
    Incidentally, dig out and re-read your survey report if you have not
    already done so.  Mine is very explicit in stating the limitations of
    the survey.
    
    regards,
    
    Colin
    

    re: Sueing
    
    	Hold on just a minute here !!! Before anyone jumps to any conclusions,
    I never said I was out to sue anyone. It costs nothing to find out what
    ones legal options are. I have never sued anyone in my life, and I too 
    don't even like the thought it. Sorry if anyone disagrees with this, but I
    consider it prudent to at least check on my options.
    
    	I am of the opinion expressed in .42. If you don't voice your
    disatisfaction, at a minimum, it was just another $200 thrown away at
    closing. 
    
    	I have emergency money tucked away for just such an emergency.
    Whether I have enough is another matter. If I do, this will likely be
    one of those expensive lessons in life. If I don't, and this problem
    will place my family at risk, I need to know what options I have
    available.
    
    	Ray

    Regardless of how you go about it, you should provide some form of
    "feedback" in a case like this, so that maybe it won't happen again.
    My inspector missed a couple of things, and I called to let him know
    what he messed.  Being a good guy and all, he was very apologetic and
    sounded like he'd give me a refund if I would ask.  But I valued his
    continuing advice more than a few dollars, and by calling him back I
    may have improved the quality of future inspections.

    So, if the guy is interested in your feedback, thanks.  If he isn't,
    make it hurt enough so that he pays attention :-)

    	After doing some checking, I may opt to do (and eat the cost of)
    this myself. My wife had two other people come out to look at it plus
    the building inspector.
    
    	The inspector said that the easiest thing to do was to put a new
    liner in (i.e. stainless steel). He also said that there is no record
    of the furnace EVER being inpected. It was evidently put in without a
    building permit. He said that once we got the liner situation squared
    away that he would come back and inspect the furnace for us.
    
    	One of the other two guys said that the whole thing needs to be
    torn down right to the basement and replaced from the ground up. He
    wouldn't even hazard as to a ball park figure. 
    
    	The other guy said he could open up the chimney and essentially
    build an internal chimney around the damaged flue up to the level of
    the mantel. For this, he quoted a figure of $1400. Sounds a little steep.
    
    	Out of all the suggestions I tend to like the building inspectors.
    A stainless steel liner would eliminate leakage through cracks from
    top to bottom. It sounds like something I may be able to do myself
    (with a little help) and is guarenteed to last 20 years.
    
    	I have no idea how much something like this costs, but I'm about to
    find out. Anyone ever do or have this done ? Comments ?
    
    	Ray

    I put a s.s. liner in a chimney about 15 (yikes!) years ago.  At that
    time, 6" liner was about a dollar a foot, as I recall.  That has
    undoubtedly changed.  One of the hardest parts was drilling holes 
    in the stuff for the screws to hold it together.  It's definitely 
    in the "difficult to machine" category.
    Get a couple extra 1/8" drills, or whatever size you need for the
    screws you use.  Or use 1/8" stainless pop rivets, perhaps.
    If you have a straight flue (no bends), just go up on the roof 
    and start lowering sections down, adding them on as you go.
    If you have a bend (I did), then it gets more interesting....  
    Fortunately, I was lining a fireplace flue so I could work up from the
    bottom as well, putting a 45 elbow on each section, from the top and
    from the bottom, and then taking out strategic bricks at the bend 
    to make the final joint.

    	I've priced some liners, and so for the cheapest prices I've found
    are for the 6" pipe that comes in 4' sections from Fireplace Village in
    Manchester. They are -
    
    	$57.20 per 4' section
    	$37.60 per T-section
    	$32.80 per end cap
    
    	For 7" pipe it is -
    
    	$70.40 per 4' section
    	$40.90 per T-section
    	$36.30 per end cap
    
    	As an aside, I looked at a previous note in which I used the term
    "my lawyer". This probably sounded funny. My first exposure to this
    laywer was at closing, so it would have sounded more politically correct
    had I said "the laywer I used for my closing".
    
    	Ray

    re: .50 
    
    ...I'm pretty sure I must have paid $10/ft, not $1/ft....  
    

    	re:-1
    
    	Maybe it was $1 per inch (i.e. 48" = $48 vs. $57 today) ???
    
    	Ray

    re: .53
    No, I don't think it was that much.  "Metalbestos" (the insulated
    stuff) was a dollar an inch back then, and the plain stainless steel
    was not as much.  Not that it matters any; you've got to deal with
    today's prices!  I just wanted to correct my wildly incorrect figure
    of a dollar a foot, so nobody thought the $57 figure was preposterous.
    The stuff *is* expensive, but it does seem to work well and it may be
    the cheapest way out.

    	Does anyone know about plain galvanized steel ? I believe I recall
    even seeing this stuff exposed (I assume it was the insulated stuff) ?
    Perhaps the exposed stuff I'm thinking of was stainless ?
    
    	I took a ride down to HQ this weekend to see what they had. All
    they had was the galvanized steel. The only thing I saw that was even
    double-wall was what they called 4" gas vent pipe. I'm not even sure if
    I could use a galvanized pipe. I'm going to check with the building
    inspector tommorrow and see what he says.
    
    	Basically, all I need to do is compensate for the cracks in the
    current flue liner. This would be like a liner within a liner, so I
    can't see why I would need insulated pipe. I can see where I'd want
    double-wall as an add precaution.
    
    	Over the weekend the fire chief came down and looked at the
    chimney. It is now condemned. He grew up with the owners kids and said 
    that if I liked he could talk to the owner about it, but she created, 
    either knowingly or not, an illegal condition. 
    
    	I had a guy from supra-flue (sp?) come in. They basically pour a
    high temp resistant cement down the chimney with a inflatable tube in
    the middle. After the cement cures, they deflate and remove the tube.
    It sounded neat, but the estimate was just under $3k. They would have
    to remove the existing liner and build some sort of form to do it. This
    is what basically made it so expensive.
    
    	Ray

    RE: .55
    
    Don't use galvanized steel. Its O.K. with gas, or oil only.
    
    Marc H.

    re:55
    
    	This is for "oil only". The only thing on this flue is the oil
    furnace. It is a Becket burner with a Weil-Mclelan (sp?) boiler. We
    have a fireplace insert, but that's on its own flue. 
    
    	They also make an aluminum pipe, but I was told this is for gas
    only, not oil. To bad, at least I wouldn't have to worry about rust
    like I would with stainless or galvanized.
    
    	Ray

    Galvanized might work.  Although it won't be as durable as the
    stainless, it may be "durable enough".  I *do* know that galvanized 
    won't work with a woodburning stove, as that can easily get hot 
    enough to melt the zinc galvanizing.  It should be okay with an oil 
    burner, as you're talking about a flue temperature of no more than 
    around 400 degrees even on an inefficient boiler and zinc melts at a 
    higher temperature than that.  The flue pipe coming directly out of my 
    boiler, going into the chimney, is galvanized and that may be over 20 
    years old.  Of course, that doesn't get rained on though, so it doesn't 
    get much chance to rust.
    
    All in all, it may be worth a try.  The dollar savings on materials are, 
    I expect, substantial.  It may be worth trying it as an experiment.  If 
    it fails sooner than you consider acceptable (check it *every* year to
    be sure it's still solid), you can go to stainless.  Even if it does fail 
    sooner than you consider acceptable, it won't be a complete loss; you'll
    get a few years out of it, anyway.

    	I think about the only place I'd really have to worry about rust is
    in the T that comes off the chimney into the furnace and near the clean 
    out. Any water that does get on the vertical section of pipe won't stay 
    there long.
    
    	As was mentioned in -1, if it does rust, I can always replace it
    with stainless. There is an incredible difference in the price between
    galvanized and stainless. If I go with the concrete type liner (which 
    is guarenteed for 20 years), I have no idea what you do with that if 
    it cracks. Perhaps, if it was a straight shot, that too could accept 
    a steel liner.
    
    	I don't even know if the liner is feasible yet. I currently have 7"
    galvanized pipe coming out of the furnace. The flue pipe is 8"x12"
    O.D., and about 6"x10" I.D.. I also have a jog in the clay liner tiles 
    where I lose about 1", so I could only go with about 5" pipe max.
    
    	If the building inspector says that 7" is required, than this is
    not the type of job I can do myself. The ideal would be if I could go
    with the 4" double-wall galvanized. At $19 for a 5' section, $16 for a
    T, and $3 for an end cap, the whole pipe job (not counting the masonary
    would be under $200. This stuff is extremely easy to work with too.
    
    	Ray

    RE: .59
    
    I put a stainless steel liner into an old chimney, last year. The
    chimney is only used for a gas furnace. The liner cost $110. The
    labor, me, was nothing. 
    
    The liner was bought by the air duct people, who sold it to me at 
    their cost.
    
    Marc H.

    re: .59
    
    I can't imagine you'll be allowed to use anything less than what you've
    got coming out of the boiler (7").

    	If I have to use 7" pipe, I won't be able to do this myself. The
    big problem is that the flue liner only has bricks on two sides in the
    chimney and no sides in the basement. The basement is easily accessable, 
    the chimney flue is not. As I said, the liner itself has an inside
    dimension of approx. 6" x 10".
    
    	I personally don't feel comfortable with cutting out and removing
    bricks from the chimney to gain access to the flue. Correct me if I'm
    wrong, but this is not a DIY type of job. This is what's going to have 
    to be done to repair this if I can't run the liner up the existing flue. 
    Estimates, so far, have come in at around $3k to have this kind of work 
    done.
    
    	Ray

Ray,

  I had a chimney fire a few years ago and it's pretty
scarey. The firemen all suggested the stainless steel
insert. That's what I did. I had a guy from Leominster
take care of it. It was the extra heavy (there are a few
grades)flexible. I think the bill was $1,200.00 installed
professionally. Luckily I got the $1,200.00 from the
insurance claim because the flu cracked in the fire.
The installer was Dave Wadkins (Leominster, Ma.).
And every year since Dave comes back to sweep the
chimney. fwiw

Kevin

    	I now have yet another option that I'm looking at, a power vent.
    The power vent is about $250 + installation and is essentially a direct
    vent with a fan. The fan is triggered by the burner and will not allow
    the burner to come on if the fan doesn't.
    
    	Seeing as this is only going to be used for the oil furnace, it
    really doesn't make sense to spend big bucks repairing a flue that I
    don't really need. The chimney is on the back side of the house and is
    the least visable area of the house.
    
    	I've already talked to the building inspector and he says that
    they're legal. I also talked to the person that did the furnace
    tune-up, and he said that the most efficient oil furnace he ever
    measured had a power vent installed.
    
    	BTW - I got a quote from All-Basics for the S.S. liner and it was
    $1675. This didn't include any masonary work or a clean out. It was
    cheaper to do the masonary repair approach (i.e. remove/replace
    existing flue liner).
    
    	Ray

    
    I just had a power vent installed to vent my propane furnace and
    water heater so that the flu could be used for a wood stove I'm
    purchasing. Seems to work quite well. Just have to get used to
    the fan noise, which isn't really that bad.
    
    As for cost, I'll let you know when I receive the bill.
    
    							Hank

    	The furnace is in the basement and I suspect the noise of the fan
    would be less than or equal to the burner blower. In other words, no
    difference.
    
    	I would be very interested in the cost. I was told the that
    Jurnalnd (sp?) power vent was about $250. The labor shouldn't be that
    big a deal. I may even be able to do some of the work myself.
    
    	Ray

    
    	Since my LP company is slow on billing, I may not
    	have the data that soon. I do remember rough estimates of
    	$600 or so for all the hardware needed for power venting
    	my configuration. (note, this didn't include the
    	piping needed for rerouting the exhaust).
    	The $250 or so seems right for
    	the fan. The extra cost we incurred was for the
    	various sensors required for venting the furnace
    	and hot water heater and having them both activate the
    	fan as needed.
    
    	Fan noise is far less than the furnace blower.
    
    							Regards,
    
    								Hank

    	Before I found out about the power vent, I had a call in a few days
    ago to the people that were going to do the masonary chimney fix (D&D) to
    schedule them in. They finally called last night and my wife answered
    the phone. When she told them that we had found out about, and decided
    to go with, a power vent, the guy hung up on her. Maybe it's just me,
    but I thought this was a little rude.
    
    	It is sort of surprising that not one of the half dozen or so
    people that came in to look at this even mentioned a power vent. I
    had told each one that money was an object and that I needed a quick
    cost effective solution that was legal and safe. 
    
    	I called the building inspector and he indicated that they were
    legal, so long as the vent came out 12" or more above the finish grade.
    He did say that this is just one more thing that can go wrong, but it
    doesn't sound as though there's a whole lot to it to go wrong.
    
    	Ray

    Do I understand correctly that a power vent can be used to eliminate
    the chimney for an ordinary furnace or boiler?  I had heard of special
    super-efficient furnaces and boilers that produce exhaust gas so cool
    that they didn't need a chimney, but I didn't know that there was any
    way to eliminate the chimney for an ordinary furnace/boiler.
    
    	Thanks,
    	Larry

Re: .69

Yes, our boiler is a forced-exhaust model that vents through the wall of
the house, not through the chimney.  There's a special kind of "vent hood"
mounted through the wall and (I think) double-wall pipe.  Ours is by
Weil-McLain.

				Steve

    RE: .69
    
    They have to be designed for power venting. My gas furnace exhausts
    around 170 degrees......the power vent is needed, since exhaust that
    low in temp whould have a poor natural draft.
    
    Marc H.

    I also have a new Weil-Mclain high efficiency gas boiler that uses a
    power vent, but it is built into the boiler. This is not one of the
    boilers that can vent through PVC pipe, but the temp is much lower than
    a 'normal' boiler.
    
    					Kenny

    	Well, I *finally* have the problem resolved. I picked up the power
    vent kit. I got the Tjurnlend (sp?) Side-shot. I got talked out of the
    less expensive HST1 model and upgraded to the Side-shot. 
    
    	The difference between the two (aside from $70) is that the HST1
    has a zero velocity vent and vents 100% flue gas. The Side-shot is a
    positive velocity vent and vents 25% flue gas. The Side-shot mixes 75%
    outside air with 25% flue gas. The exhaust temp at the hood of a
    Side-shot is no more that 120 degrees.
    
    	If I installed the HST1, I'd have to enclose the area around the
    vent with fire-retardant sheet rock as the vent head has a much higher
    exhaust temp. I was also told that I would eventually get soot stains
    above the vent on the HST1 where that isn't a problem with the
    Side-shot.
    
    	Goulet Plumbing on Elm St. in Manchester, NH had a special on the
    Side-shot for $295. All that is needed in addition to the kit is
    whatever pipe/elbows you need to connect the boiler to the unit and
    some 14/2 BX wire (w/ seperate ground lead) and associated wire nuts, 
    red-heads, and connectors. The pipe used is simply 6" round galvanized. 
    I needed to install a 7" to 6" reducer at the vent itself as I have 7" 
    pipe coming from my boiler.
    
    	Normally, the installation would be through the sill plate and
    would be fairly easy. I had to go through the concrete area near my
    chimney for reasons that would take to long to explain in this already
    long note.
    
    	Basically, you need to cut an 8" square hole through the sill plate 
    to mount the unit. If you can go in between rafters you're ahead of the 
    game. The whole installation can easily be done in a day, but allow a
    FULL day in case you run into problems like I did.
    
    	Aside from having to go through concrete, I did not have the
    furnace controller shown in the directions (had 8124A vs. 8144G). The
    wiring is fairly simple though. You take the black lead from the burner
    and run it to the unit, along with the neutral for the burner. You then
    have a wire that runs from the unit back to the burner lead.
    
    	What this does is use the burner lead to turn the fan on instead of
    the burner. The unit has a fan sensing circuit. When it senses that the
    fan is operating, it enables the burner to come on. There is also a
    timer circuit that runs the fan for about 15 seconds after the burner
    turns off. 
    
    	For just over $300, I have a safe, effective, and inexpensive
    solution and one less flue to clean. Just the savings in not having to
    clean the flue will eventually pay for the unit. This is much better
    than the $1800 I almost spent fixing a flue I didn't really need.
    
    	Ray

    	Just a couple of extras about the installation. The vent must be at
    least 12" up from the finish grade and no closer that 4' to any window.
    
    	Ray

    
    Just as an update I had Barry-John Chimney Sweep do my chimney.  I was
    able to save $10 as there is a coupon in the Milford area phone book.
    
    Barry or John spent about an hour cleaning my furnace and fireplace
    chimneys as well as answering all my questions.
    
    I've had many sweeps over the years so I can say that this one did a
    good job.
    
    I'd recommend them to anyone.
    
    Cal

    
    I have the same side-shot unit. Just a note from experience. During 
    the heat wave this summer (it was above 99 that day), my furnace
    stopped working. I thought it was a burner problem or loss of prime.
    I checked everything then called in a serviceman.
    
    Turns out it was a switch on the side-shot, in the box under the main
    unit about a foot from the sill. The book indicates it trips this
    switch if the flue temp exceeds 600 or the ambient temp reaches 104.
    
    Otherwise, it's been great.
    
    Bob 

    	My unit is mounted on the north side of the house, so this should
    help a little. The only other problem is that it meets the minimum
    above-grade height level of 12" (mine's about 16"), but if we get a
    fast dump of more than 1.5' of snow, or large drifts, I may have to 
    watch out for that.
    
    	Ray

  I'm looking for a good chimney sweep in the Northboro Mass. area to install
a wood stove for me.  I need to have a new hole cut into the flue so I don't
want to try it myself.

  The yellow pages for my area lists these local chimney sweeps:


       Chim Chimney Sweep of Framingham
       Highland Roofing and Chimney Co of Marlboro
       Northwind Chimney Sweeping of Northboro
       Salisbury Chimney Sweeps of Westboro
       Top Hat Chimney Sweep of North Grafton


  Has anyone used any of these chimney sweeps?  Anyone have any 
recommendations?


                  Thanks,


                           Jim

Last year, I had a wood furnace installed in the basement, which involved
cutting a new hole in the flue (as well as ductwork).

I don't have anything to compare his work with, but the system is running fine.

Can't remember his name, but he was recommended by Marc Hildebrant elsewhere in
this notes file.

			(Psst, that's your cue, Marc!)

B.T.W., I live in Grafton.

								-- Chuck Newman

    
    
    	My friends Jack Brewster and Randy Moore *are* Top Hat Chimney
    	Sweep.  Both great guys who do excellent work.  I've known them
    	for almost 15 years.
    
    	Good Luck!
    
    	/andy
    
    

  I talked to Marc off-line and it turns out that the place he knows of
is more for duct work type stuff.  I need to actually vent the exhaust 
into the same flue of the chimney that my oil burner goes into.  That's
why I need the new hole cut.

  And I also called several different building inspectors and have confirmation
that the state of Massachusetts *does* allow you vent a wood stove and an oil
furnace into the same flue.  The wood stove must enter the flue at least 6 
inches below where the furnace taps in, and the flue must have the capacity
to handle both the stove and the furnace.  To figure out if the flue is big
enough the require you to supply the BTU rating of the furnace and the stove,
the height of the chimney/flue, and the inside dimensions of the flue.

    
>    	My friends Jack Brewster and Randy Moore *are* Top Hat Chimney
>    	Sweep.  Both great guys who do excellent work.  I've known them
>    	for almost 15 years.


  Thanks for the input.  I'll give them a call.


    
                       Jim

    Any reasonably current recommendations for a good chimney sweep in
    the Lincoln, MA area?
    
    My father-in-law, at 84 or so, usually does his own, but we're
    trying to keep him off the roof...

    We just had our chimney cleaned and inspected and were told we needed
    about 2-3K worth of repairs, and so I'm looking for a second opinion
    from another firm.
    
    Can anyone recommend a anyone for chimney inspection/repair in Southern
    NH (Nashua)?
    
    Thanks,
    
    -randy

I use Sons Chimney Service out of Milford N.H.

Last week the guy cleaned both flues in my chimney plus cleaned the
stove pipes on two stoves. One of the stoves is connected into a
fireplace flue with one of those oval flue connecters which he also
cleaned. He was there a good 2 hours and the bill was $125.

He even removed a broken chimney cap for me at no charge. Also took
a picture of the cracks in the cement collar at the top of the chimney
to show me. He quoted me $80 to come out and repair that.

Overall I was pleased with the job !

Randy

    	Did the person say what was wrong ? Sounds like a ballpark figure
    for a liner replacement ? I currently have someone doing a repair on my
    chimney. Unfortunately, I can't recommend him since he doesn't show up
    on time (or at all in some cases). He has seemingly valid reasons, but
    he doesn't call to let you know that he won't be there until long after
    he was supposed to show up.
    
    	You may be able to talk to the local fire chief. One word of
    warning though, if it's that bad, he could condemn the chimney. I went
    through that myself. The final fix was to install a power vent, but
    this only applies to oil and gas burners.
    
    	Ray

	We've been happy with Red House Chimney sweeps, in Merrimack NH.
	We first called them when we moved in to our house, but the guy
	inspected the chimney and told us that it didn't need to be cleaned
	(this included both the fireplace and woodstove chimneys). We have
	since had them clean the chimneys once per year. THey've been
	reliable and helpful.

	Roy

    Re: .85, the diagnosis was basically:
    
    	1700 to replace the liner (clay flue tiles were cracked)
         200 for a chimney cap
         100 to repair damage to the crown (caused by not having a chimney cap
         200 to repair hearth itself (there are some cracks in the back at
             the joints.
        ----
        2200
    
        I've got to get an second opinion on both whether the work needs to
        be done and the cost of doing the work.
    
     -Randy

    	Re:87
    	
    	That sounds about right. Not sure how high your chimney is, but the
    lowest estimate I found for similar work on my 2-story Gambrel was
    $1800. I also looked into stainless steel liners and that was going to
    run me about $1500, but that's because I would of HAD to go with the more
    expensive rectangular stuff. If you can go with the round pipe, it's a
    little cheaper.
    
    	Ray

    I plan to do some work on the top of my chimney.  Can I place a ladder
    against the chimney (will it support the weight), or do I have to
    access the top of the chimney by standing on the roof?
    
    I would prefer to stay on a ladder, as opposed to walking on the steep
    roof.
    
    Thanks, Mark

    
    It might be worth renting a shingling platform to work from the
    roof.  The trouble with putting ladders against a chimney is that
    you have to be standing quite close to the top of the ladder to
    reach the flue.  Which is less safe than being on the roof.
    
    While you're up there, you might also want to install a stainless
    steel ring bolt near the top.  Useful for tying off the top of the ladder
    and tying in a safety line.
    
    Colin
      

    I plan to install a ss cap, and do some mortar repairs.
    
    My idea is to place the aluminum extension ladder (24') inside the bed
    of my pickup truck.  The ladder should extend beyond the peak of the
    chimney.  So I shouldn't be at too high a point on the ladder itself.
    
    The chimney is structurely sound.  I have been told by the sweepers
    that there is some loose mortar up there.
    
    BTW, anyone know what "pointing" means?  Thanks, Mark
    

Pointing means mortaring the joints between the bricks.  After a while, the
mortar often becomes loose and falls off in chips.  Repointing is then
necessary - you remove loose mortar and add fresh.

If your chimney is structurally sound, it can take having a ladder against
it.  The earlier comments about instability are well-taken, though.  Use
a ladder stabilizer if you can.

					Steve

    
    A time saver for repointing is to get a mortar routing bit
    for your electric drill.  Heck of a lot quicker than using
    a pointing chisel.
    
    C.
    
    

    Hi - does anyone have a current recommendation for a reliable chimney
    sweep in the Acton area? (and what the going rate is.... been a few
    years since I had mine cleaned)
    
    Thanks, Nancy

    Seems that the last stretch of notes were on chimney cleaning.  How 
    about house cleaning?  Looking for a 1x cleaning for a house that we
    are about to move into - hasn't been occupied in some time and although
    the walls will be freshly painted and the floors redone, it appears
    that the windows and other areas haven't been touched in some time.
    Between packing and cleaning the house we are vacating we are out of
    time and energy.  Any suggestions appreciated. Ayer area.

    Can anyone recommend a good chimney sweeper in the Groton, MA area?
    The house we just bought is in desperate need to have its chimney
    cleaned.

    Thanks,
    Kristen

    We ended up picking a company from the Yellow Pages that we were
    very satisfied with: Complete Sweep, based in Dunstable, MA.  Give
    Mike Henning a call at (800) 395-2883; he did a great job.

    Kristen