Conference 7.286::home_work

    I talked to one plumber and one oil guy about our to-be-built-someday house.
Both seemed equally knowledgeable in the feet-of-baseboard-per-square-foot
category.  Both were small-time with one or two helpers.
    The oil guy came in a LOT more expensive.  He said, by way of excuse, he
didn't do much new construction and spends a lot of his time doing emergency
heating calls, furnace cleanings, and such like.  (I'm not sure he's done much
estimating! :-)

but plumbers generally DON't cover FHA furnaces - i had to call a few 
'heating & A/C' places to find one experienced with FHA /j

For whatever it's worth, I called a heating person who in turn referred me to
a plumber.  Said he didin't have the time to even look at the job. This raises
another question, namely sizing the system.  I assume there's some kind of 
formula where one can figure out the number of linear feet of baseboard, but I
wonder if most builders even do that?  For example, our kithen and family room
are about the same size and the kitchen has only about 1/2 the baseboard (not
a lot of room with counters, doorways, etc.).

Also, we're going to be doubling the size of our family room actually loosing
feet of outside wall since were putting in sliders.  I know the preferred
placement for heat is on the outside walls.  Is there any negative of putting
heat on an inside wall?

All this leads me to wonder how one can be certain whoever is sizing your
requirements know what they're doing.  A mistake here can prove to be a 
disaster!

-mark

I recently have a shower system replaced by a plumber. He charged me
    $300 , of which $190 is the labor cost for about 3 hours of work
    by his assistant. After the assistant completed the job, the hot 
    water pipe from the old section of the brass pipe started leaking. 
    The plumber and the assistant put in another hour + to fix the
    problem. He charged me an additional $145 for that. ( The leak on
    that pipe is a result of the vibration from the work done, but it
    was in bad condition). Is this reasonable ? The $300 was the quoted
    price before the job was done. But after researching on how much
    the material cost come out to be, I am a little unsure if I have
    been ripped off. Especially the fact that I have paid $45 dollars
    earlier on to have the leak in the shower system looked at. The
    plumber replaced the male section of the valve but that only directed
    the leak from into the tub to onto the floor below. The total cost
    of everything is $490.
    
    Does anyone know of any good reliable plumber in Worcester ?
    
    
    Thanks
    /Ted

good, reliable plumber in worcester: West Boylston Plumbing and Heating
Not the cheapest, but reasonable, responsive, and they back their work.

Wish I could still use them...can anyone recommend one near Sudbury 
MA?

It seems like you have two questions there: did you pay the going rate, 
and was it reasonable.  No, it is not reasonable.  Yes, it was probably 
in line with the going rate.  

Mass. plumbers have a closed market and they certainly take advantage of
it.  I'm doing a renovation of my kitchen and have had three plumbers in
to look at the job. The first fellow bid $2,500 -- our G.C. had
estimated (based on time and materials) $1,000.  I cut the job down by
about a third.  The second guy came and estimated about the same as the
first.  So I put all the goodies back in and asked the third guy.  Same
estimate.  Then I asked how much the price of the job would come down if
I cut the job back, and he started waffling, saying that it really
wouldn't make that much difference, and I should stick with the original
plan, and he could knock $100 off, blah, blah, blah. 

Not one of them measured to see how much material would be required. 
Not one of them looked to see if there would be any structural
"gotchas."  I'm convinced that all they did was look at the job,
estimate how much I was spending and bid a percentage.  They all came in
within $100 of each other. 

Finally, the G.C. got mad and hunted down a plumber who owed him a 
favor, and we got him to do the cut-down job for the amount estimated.  
He's there this morning, and he'll be done by 4:00.  He'll be spending 
less than $200 in materials.
					>>>==>PStJTT

    I think .0 and .2 should get a book on plumbing and do the next
    job yourselves.
    

RE: .3

That's not really a win in Massachusetts.  Plumbing *must* be done by a
licensed plumber.  Before you suggest to do it on the sly, remember, if
you've pulled permits for frame and electric, you can bet the plumbing
inspector will drop by too. 
					>>>==>PStJTT

    
    
    I live in Shrewsbury and have used two plumbers with very good luck.
    
    	1.  Don Murray Plumbing and Heating.  Don is in Whitinsville
    	    (sp?).  His number is in the Worcester phone book and the
    	    Voice.  Let me know if you can't find it.  I have had Don
    	    do numerous jobs around the house and have been totally
    	    satisfied with his work.  His prices are reasonable, I
    	    think the last time he was out he charged around $22/hour.
            He likes anytype of plumbing except emergencies..Many of
    	    my friends have used him with no problems.
    
    	2.  Having hard water in Shrewsbury means we have at least 3-4
    	    emergencies (pipe leaks, etc.) a year.  Since #1 can't 
    	    respond that quickly, I use V.P. Flynn Plumbing from
    	    Shrewsbury for emergencies.  He's a little more expensive, 
    	    but comes right away, usually within a day.  Hope this 
    	    helps you out.
    
    

    re -.1:  3-4 emergencies per year?  Good grief!  Your plumbing
             must be olde.
    
    						Don

This note is for recommendations for the type of contractor listed in the note
title.  If you need to ask for recommendations, please delete your query after
you receive responses so that only recommendations remain in the note.  Queries
not deleted by the author may be deleted by the moderators. 

In any recommendation, please include as much information as you can.  Cost, 
quality, and timeliness are all important.  DON'T forget to mention the area.  
Other information like sub-specialties, and the name of the particular person 
you dealt with if it is a large company, are also useful.

*VERY IMPORTANT*

Any negative references must remain as factual as possible.  As a mental 
guideline, ask yourself if you would send your response in to be printed in a 
major newspaper.  Any responses which could be considered libelous will be 
deleted.



The opinions expressed in this note do not represent Digital Equipment 
Corporation or the moderators of this file.

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 717.6                         Skim Coats                            6 of 10
JUNIOR::PELTONEN                                     16 lines  21-JAN-1987 15:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      $500!! Ouch! I just had my living room ceiling fixed. Its a
    12 by 21 room that had a 20' crack and an old swirl pattern to
    it. My brother-in-law (the contracter) recommended this guy from
    Gardner. He came in, taped the crack, taped two cracks in the
    wall, skim coated the ceiling, put on a layer of BIN (this thing
    was dirty!!), then textured the ceiling for $160. Nice job, too.
    
      I went to the textured for something different, for a slightly
    higher price I could have had another skim coat to make it smooth
    over the old swirl pattern.
    
      Guys name is Randy Vaillencourt, I can furnish his phone number
    if needed.
    
                                             Dana
    

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 899.1               Drywaller Recommendation Wanted                  1 of 1
MAGIC::COTE                                           2 lines  20-MAR-1987 16:05
                       -< here's one in Manchester, NH >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I know of a good one in the Manchester, NH area.  John's Drywall.
    

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1565.1       Sheet Rocker Contractor recommendation needed           1 of 4
MAGIC::COTE                                          10 lines  25-SEP-1987 12:08
                         -< I've used John's Drywall >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've used "John's Drywall" from Manchester.  He charged me 900 to
    do a couple of upstairs bedrooms.  The ceilings were done with a
    technique called "flowers".  His people can do some real fancy stuff
    with the finish, but I'm sure the prices are fancy too.
    
    Sheetrockers usually charge by the sheet, and the price should include
    hanging, taping, all finish work, and the material.
    
    BC
    

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1427.1                    Ceiling replacement                        1 of 5
GNERIC::FARRELL "Rubber Rodeo Fan Club"              16 lines  18-AUG-1987 09:36
                                 -< 2 Sources >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You might want to try the following companies in Worcester for
Plastering/Wallboarding

	B&B Plastering		C&S Plastering
                                112 Paine St.
				Worcester,Mass.

Sorry I don't have the phone numbers, they should be in the Worcester
phone book.  They are both pretty good, we went with C&S to have a
few ceilings done.   Price varies from $300 - $600 for a 12x12 room
depending on how much work is done by yourself.


					Joef

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1521.4         Any comments on these Drywall contractors             4 of 4
VIA::SAVAGE "Peter Savage"                           13 lines   1-OCT-1987 16:48
                   -< Someone who does good sheetrock work >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have had work done several times by a fellow in Hudson.  This
    person is a full time hanger/taper, but does work on the side after
    5 and weekends.  The arrangement has been that I pay for the materials
    and pay him a flat fee per hour (Turns out to be very reasonable).
    The work has always been completed in the estimated time and the
    results have turned out better than the original work that was done
    in the house. 
    

        His name and phone number are:
    
	    				Brian Arnold
        				603-881-5762

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1565.2       Sheet Rocker Contractor recommendation needed           2 of 4
RHODES::ROBILLARD                                     9 lines   5-OCT-1987 13:35
                            -< Drywall Contractor >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Try New England Wall Systems out of Winchendon,Ma.
    They are doing some work for me this month. They are doing 4 rooms
    and a bath in Blueboard with a skim coat of plaster. In addition
    he is taping and finishing a cathedral hallway. All this for 1300.
    
    Dick
    
    
    

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1565.3       Sheet Rocker Contractor recommendation needed           3 of 4
SMC003::MURPHY                                        6 lines   6-OCT-1987 13:29
                             -< The Drywall King >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    	For another price call,Murphy Drywall in Gardner Ma.
    
    
    			Call Arthur Murphy (The Drywall King)
    				617-632-5614
    

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1565.4       Sheet Rocker Contractor recommendation needed           4 of 4
CSMADM::PILOTTE "Dr. Cycle & Mr. Ride"                6 lines   6-OCT-1987 16:03
                        -< Yup  Murphy's Drywall is #1 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I second the motion on Murphy Drywall.  He's the best
    drywaller I've seen in a long time.
    
    tell him I sent ya.  
    
    mark pilotte

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 1886.0           Pleased with Oberlin Home Improvement            2 replies
TOLKIN::GUERRA "ARRIVE ALIVE, DON'T DRIVE"           13 lines  19-JAN-1988 08:51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's not very often that we find a contractor that fulfills our
    expectations of quality, timeliness and competitive pricing. It
    is for this reason that I want to take the time to reiterate a 
    recommendation from another DECcie (Brian Sussel) for Oberlin Home
    Improvements (Wayne Denio). He did some plastering at my house
    and I am pleased with every aspect of his work. He is doing some
    wallpaper hanging for my in-laws and I believe they are also pleased
    with how it's coming out.
    
    He does wallpaper hanging, painting, plastering, etc. He can be
    reached at (617)853-7618.

    Brian, thanks for the recommendation.

    This is a strong recommendation for Preferred Interior Contractors
    of Littleton, MA.  They did a terrific blueboard and plaster job
    at a very competitive price (10% lower than two other estimates).
    They were very fast, 4 days to do a 23 x 46 foot addition (a whole
    new floor of a house).
    
    Malcolm Harrington, one of the partners, showed up every day that
    work was going on to check up on things.  
    
    They've been in business for 26 years, and have plenty of references.
    
    Bob

    Preferred Interior Contractors
    446 King Street
    Littleton, MA 01460
    (508) 486-4342
    
    They're located on Rt. 2A/110, just west of Littleton Common (on the
    right as you're heading towards Rt. 495 [i.e., away from Kimballs!]).
    
    Jim
    
    (no association with PIC, just a local resident)

Well my plasterer started today!  John Mossey from Pepperell.  433-2156.  Tell
him I sent you...

I admit he's not done yet, but from what I've seen so far I'm quite pleased.  A
local builder who does mega-houses uses him so that should say something about
his quality also.

He prices prices according to the number of sheets of blueboard you haadjusts
accordingly.  His rate is around $.65/sq ft.  In my case have 16' cathedral
ceilings and wanted them smooth!  He wanted an extra $250 for working on the
staging and another $400 for making them smooth.  I'm talking about a LOT of
ceiling here, close to 700 sq ft.  In addition to that I wanted him to take my
kitchen ceiling which has swirls and make it smooth.  He wanted another $.75 a
sq foot to do that.

All told, I hun��g 73 sheets and the total job is going to run $2200.

-mark

    Re: .23
    
    I've use John Mossey many times. He was my neighbor in Pepperell
    and did the entire neighborhood including my house.  Good guy,
    excellent work. He usually is not available because he does only
    big jobs and whole developments. I still get him during inbetween
    jobs and will be using him again to do my new 14 X 18 addition.
    
                                                          Bill Lampros

Preferred Interior Contractors
    Did a fine job on a 20 x 40, 2 floor addition including a garage.
    They finished in 7 days from studs to plaster. I plan to use them
    again when I redo the original house. Good people, Good Work. Don't
    know how competitive though, the were the only contractor that showed
    up to bid !!!  Anyway, I'm Happy...  It's done and looks great...
    
    

         I want to replace an old stainless steel sink with a new
         enamel-on-cast-iron almond sink and faucet.  My problem is
         that the new sink is 22 by 33 and the old sink required a
         cutout that's 21 1/2 by 32 7/8 - there's just not enough
         countertop to satisfactorily support the new sink, plus the
         old cutout is rectangular and the new sink is less than 22 at
         the corners - it's tapered a bit.

         My idea (because putting a new countertop is not an option)
         is to lay down a piece of Corian that'll be about 23 1/2 by
         35 and make the cutout for the new sink in that.  A cutaway
         view would look like this from the front:


                             /-----\
                      +--------+    \
                      | Corian |     \ <-- sink
         --------------------+-+      \
                 old         |         \
              countertop     |
         --------------------+


         In general, what do you think?  Can I get away with 1/2"
         Corian?  Will it be OK to use a waterproof adhesive to join
         the Corian to the old countertop, or should I screw it down
         and countersink-and-plug the screwholes?

         I can't think of any other way to do this!

         Thanks,
         Pete

         (Is it my breath?)

         Gee, I expected an onslaught of keen, insightful ideas based
         on hundreds of man-years of experience!

         Anyway, I did some investigating and the general concensus
         was that my idea stinks.  No matter how good a job I did, it
         would still look patchwork.  The only options are to do a new
         countertop or get a little bigger sink (especially after I
         found out that a 25x48 inch piece of Corian lists at $300!)

         The only sink that's bigger that will fit in my sink base is
         a Corian double bowl, the one that has one small bowl and one
         large bowl.  That lists at about $750, Fayco will sell it to
         me for $550.  It looks like the answer.

         I'll do a title search for "Corian" now, but any comments,
         good or bad, based on your or someone else's experience, are
         welcome.

         Pete

    How about
    
    
            -----------------------------------
           /|                        \ |       |
           ||                        | |       |
           ||<--Old Cutout------------>|       |
           ||                        | |       |
           |<---New Cutout---------->| |Cutting|
           ||                        |<-Board->|       
           \|                        / |       |
            -----------------------------------
                                                       
    
    Moving the hole over an inch or two should allow you to round the
    corners of the cutout.  A cutting board which fits into the counter
    top and sticks above the sink could be very useful.
    
    
    
    
                    +---------------------------------------+
                    +--+                                    |
     Sink              |                                    |
     Top---> --------\ |                                    |
               =====+--+==================================+-+====== 
                    |           ^Old counter top          |    
                    +-------------------------------------+
                    
    The Sink sits into a notch in the cutting board which supports one
    side of the sink.  The cutting board overlaps the counter top on
    three sides, which supports the cutting board.  Does this make sense?
    
    Tom
    

         Tom,

         About the cutting board idea, there are three things about
         that that bother me:  (1) the pure cost of the thing if
         you're thinking Corian.  If you're thinking wood, I've been
         told by a cast of thousands (oh, well, at least four...) that
         wood in the immediate vicinity of water is a bad idea.  (2)
         If Corian, then besides the cost issue, the surface would be
         damaged with every use.  I know it's repairable but you lose
         material every time you take sandpaper to it.  (3) Like I
         said in .1, everyone who listened said thay thought it would
         look patchy.

         So we've bitten it and yesterday ordered the Corian sink
         after checking some prices (Slumerville was $750 less 9% -
         well over $100 more than Fayco).  I'm praying that we like
         it.

         Pete

    Hear is some valuable info. for those of you who are thinking of,
    or already had an after market central AC unit installed in your
    existing FHA system.

    I live in a 7 room ranch with a G.E. 36,000 BTU system that I felt was not
    living up to it's expectations. This unit was installed in 1980 and
    has never been serviced since...not that it should have either. How do
    I know it's never been services. The service panel had an envelope
    with recharge specs in it. The envelope was sealed and covered with 
    10 years of dust, dirt, dead spiders and on and on. 

    My attempts to isolate failure was;
    1) Completely clean evaporator and condensor coils.
    2) Clean fresh air filter.
    3) Check freon charge.

      A gauge check showed a problem. Home AC units use R22 refrigerent
      with a full charge lo pressure reading of 60PSI and a high pressure
      side of at least 250PSI (this value will be higher as outside temp 
      gets hotter). 

      My lo side tested at 70PSI (over charge) and high side at 180PSI
      (insufficient head pressure) spelled "PROBLEMS".
  
      A qualified serviceman (friend who works fro DEC maintanance) said
      it's most likely water and crud in the system (reason for overcharge)
      and that we should purge (vaccum) the system and recharge. 
      He said the over charge by "SOMEONE" was an attempt to mask a problem
      whether a pump problem or installation problem, or there is water in 
      the system from a leak somewhere. Just my luck it turned out to be 
      "INCORRECT INSTALLATION".
      
      The problem turns out to be too small a tubing (5/8" and should have 
      been 3/4" determined by 1; lenght of tubing and expected pressures)
      from the outside condensor/pump to the evaporator coils contained in 
      the ductwork.

      REASON FOR INCORRECT INSTALLATION;
      Most of these companies that install aftermarket units contract 
      plumbers who install the pipes. Trade name=Quicky Installations.
      This plumber saw 5/8" attachments on everything and decided to 
      install 5/8" refrigerent tubing to connect everything.
                                   
      ***************************  "WRONG"  **************************

      VERIFICATION OF INCORRECT INSTALLATION;
      G.E. was called and given the module numbers of all components in the 
      system including tube diameters and symptoms of the system (low head 
      pressure). Also others from the DEC workforce where consulted with 
      the same comments (IF ANYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT EFFICIENCY OF AC, 
      DEC MAIN. SHOULD). 
      
      The first thing everyone commented was "WRONG SIZE TUBE-MOST LIKELY 
      INSTALLED BY A PLUMBER. This is a very common problem with systems 
      in this time period. I suggest you replace the 5/8" tubing with 
      the correct size 3/4" tubing and the problem will be rectified. 
      There are reference charts to be followed for these systems and 
      that pipe is 1/4" to small."
 
      MORAL TO THE STORY
      To anyone who is having AC installed, who is thinking of having AC
      installed, or already did have it installed..."BEWARE OF THE PLUMBER"
      Ask who will be performing the installation? If you know someone in 
      the AC industry, ask their oppinion or have them check it out.
      You may spend $50.00 to be sure now. Or you can waste money trying to
      cool your house with an AC unit that is working at less than 50%,
      then find out that you will have to crawl through the attack to 
      replace pipes on most likely the hottest day of the year.

      THE GOOD NEW
      At least my fealings where correct that this unit should be working 
      better and that we isolated the cause.

      THE BAD NEWS
      This is going to suck this afternoon when I have to crawl the 100 degree
      plus attack with a hacksaw to cut out someones shortcut, and then pay
      the price of 30' of new 3/4" refrigerent line, then recharge again.
    

      Sorry for the lenghty story...but the more I think about it, the more 
      I type and the more pissed of I get.

                                         Dave'

    
    Wow it sounds like you've had a bad time. Do you know for sure that
    it was a plumber that put in the A/C lines ? 
    
     Don't forget to discharge the refridgerant before you un-sweat
    the joint to the Coil and the Compressor.
    
    

    
    It had to be a blumber, or a DIY installation. G.E. designed the
    system to be used with 3/4", not 5/8". They agreed that the line
    is undersize for this unit (36k BTU).
    
    We are going to replace the line w/ the proper size, install a sight
    glass at the evaporator to detect full charge and recharge according
    to the superheat, and not the vaccum PSIG, which the end result
    should be the same either way.                    
    
    I did some studying of a typical AC from the DEC course books.
    What is happening is the freon vapor reaches a capillary tupe (metering
    device) which creates a very high pressure. This causes the gas to 
    change to a liquid and fill the evaporator, which it's not. The
    evaporator must be filled with liquid for full efficiency.
    We know it's not liquid because only the lower half of the evap.
    is cold. The top half is room temp.=wrong. Also you can hear the
    gas/liquid mixture at the evap. It sounds like a high pitch wistle.
    This indicates a low charge or a mixed charge (gas/liquid). By
    installing a sight glass at the cap tube/evaporator, we will be
    able to see this happening.
                       
    As room air flows through the evap, it boils the freon, causing
    a change to gas again, and absorbing heat from the air. This absorbed
    heat is piped to the condensor via the pump and is cooled by a fan
    outside the house. This temp at the condensor (according to the chart) 
    should be approx 141.5 degress F. This is not happening because 
    the outside condensor is at outside temp, therefore there is very
    little heat being absorbed be the evap. and carried to the cond.
    About the only thing my system is doing is dehumidifying, which
    has made the house bearable.
    
    I will fill in the fixes later, when we find all the flaws...'till
    then, be cool-Dave'
      

Dave,

our A/C came from Sears precharged; compressor, lines and
evaporator. The installation was part DYI (I installed the wiring
from breaker panel and control line from thermostat) and a
furnace/A/C installer since it required modifying the sheet metal
on the furnace ducts. It worked the first season, then needed
recharging the next since the precharged lines/system does loose
some charge when installed. Recharged underwarranty, BTW.

cal

    Try Eddie Holt 
    
    He fixed a plaster wall with huge cracks in our house recently and
    has done work for my parents in the past.  He is a character but
    he does excellent work for reasonable prices.  He shows up on time
    and cleans up after himself.
    
    Edward R. Holt
    Plastering of all types
    Patching
    156 Grandview Ave
    Revere MA 02151
    617-324-0592
    
    Michelle

    I used a real nice Irish guy by the name of Jerome Curran. He just
    did my skim coating but I'm sure he could do or arrange to get someone
    to do the hanging as well.
    
    He did a very nice job, cleaned up and did a few extra things not
    included in the bid just to help me out. He came a day late because
    his car broke but was very apologetic.
    
    His number is---- 825-1250
    His address is--- 27 Chemsford Street, Dorchester

    Harry

    I used Lambert's Drywall to do the drywall for the second floor
    of my house. Good job, on time, good price.  He is located in Hooksett
    NH.  Ivan (owner) is real low key, but he does very good work.

I don't know if I'm allowed to refer John Mossey (from Townsend) again, but I 
called him for a job last week to get into his queue and he wanted to start the
next day!  Bottom line is he could use the work so I suspect he'd be willing to
drive a bit to get it.

-mark

Hello,
	I would appreicate your suggestions on an encounter I
	have with a plumbr:

	The water heater in my Condo broke and I had a plumber
	(DMS plumbing) come over and fix it. They came in and
	diagnosed the problem to be broken thermostat and replaced
	the thermostat and charged us $70.00.

	Finding the water to be COLD the next morning, we called the
	plumber and told them about it. They said WE HAD TO set the
	thermostat to the desired temparature. (they didn't say this
	when they came in to fix the heater). I then tried to adjust
	the thermostat.. with not much success, I called them again
	and insisted that they come in and fix it properly.

	They came in again and fixed it, properly this time..
	and sent us another bill for $55.00.

	I think it is unfair on their part to charge me (the second
	time for something that they SHOULD HAVE done properly the
	first time. It was not like I got some hot water and wanted 
	hotter water.. the water was PLAIN COLD.

	I am thinking of refusing to pay.

	I have never had any dealing with plumbers and plumbing
	in the past and so don't know if what they did was "lawful".
	Could someone advise me on the whether I have a strong
	case, please ?


	Thanks very much

Murali


P.S	Posted in CONSUMER conference also.

    This sounds like a similar situation, different utility, but same
    question.  I paid a "professional" to correct/update my service
    and when they were through, not everything worked.  They charged
    me to come out and correct the problems.  Should I pay?

    You might look at 3028 for some suggestions about how to handle
    this.

I'd most strongly add Don Champain to this list.  Don taped a cathedral 
ceiling, and the accompanying knee and high walls for us at both a very
reasonble price and a very high level of quality.  He charged me $400 to do 
approximatly 1400 sq feet of walllboard (three coats on the ceiling -- I've 
finsihed it smooth.) This is remodeling, and included blending new board 
with old, and fixing older seams over a landing and stairwell. and three
ceilings.  A little bit about him:

When he came by and priced the job, he told us when he'd be available,
then called a few days before to make sure we were in synch.
He showed up as promised promptly, and he is one of the neatest tapers I
have ever seen working.  Several of his jobs in the past 
have been cleaning up other people's jobs too.  I have a pretty large job and 
am subcontracting the time-consuming things that I cannot do to high 
standards in a reaonable, quality, time frame (roof shingling, taping).

He does excellent work and relies on word-on-mouth  Because he works by day in 
Boston, he's currently moonlighting.  He is friendly guy and very conscious
about the quality of his work.   He lives in Merrimack N.H. and currently
works in Boston as a drywall crew foreman by day.  I think he'd consider
most work within this range.   He's done a lot of custom work, including
an *awesome* concentric circular cut-out in his own house. (he showed us
pictures)  His  phone number is: (603)883-7299.  
    
    

      While  setting  the  thermostat  on  a  water  heater  is a pretty
      straightforward DIY job, it is not, in my opinion, something  that
      should   be  considered  as  a  "normal"  job  for  the  "average"
      homeowner.  The plumber should have set the new thermostat to  the
      same setting as the old, or asked you how you want it set.

    RE: .0
    
    This is what *I* would do.  Write a letter to the plumbing company
    explaining why you are *not* paying the second bill.  Photocopy
    your letter and the bill, and send it by mail Return Receipt
    Requested!  This will protect you in case you ever need to verify
    that you protested the bill.  I certainly would not pay $55 for
    something that should have been done the first time.
    
    -tm
    
    p.s.  I know this is a pain, but it's worth the $55, and it helps
          protect you legally.
    

    Looking for a STUCCO dealer / workman in the Framingham/Natick
    area. Has anyone out there every had the need within this local
    route 9 area ?
    
    Our stucco seems to be a thin (two coat) painted over wall board
    type of application. The house is a Tudor and we had all but 
    the A peace vinyl sided ... now we need the stucco redone.
    
    All pointers and comments will be appreciated.
    
    
    Thanks Lloyd

         Why not DIY. My father-in-law in his youger years did Stucco work.
    When living in Worcester I owned a Stucco house and needed a spot 3x5
    repaired. He mixed up a batch of portland cement and troweled it onto
    the surface to be repaired. He then tied a bunch of twigs together and
    went over it again to add texture to the finish. Another way would've
    been to first put a layer of mud over the area to be repaired then
    using the stick bundle dip it in a loose mud mixture and dob it on the 
    surface.
    
          BB

I just had my entire upstairs taped and finished including a textured ceiling
by Rene (I hung the sheetrock myself). He does good work, is punctual, honest 
and has a very reasonable price.  

For 3 rooms, 1 bathroom and 4 closets his price was $475 for taping, finishing
and the putting a texture on the ceiling.  I supplied the joint compound, but 
he would have gotten it at cost if I needed him to.

He also hangs sheetrock, and repairs holes and that sort of thing.

His name is Rene C. Beaudoin
	    Weare, NH
	    (603)529-1951

       <<< SERENA::SERENA$DUA2:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2025.51                        Plumbers                            51 of 54
VIA::MEHRING                                         19 lines  11-SEP-1990 18:08
               -< Need Medford area plumber to replace FHW unit >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone know of some decent -- reasonably priced plumbers a bit closer to Boston?
I will try the Stoneham and Burlington listings, but there weren't too many
names located near Boston...

...and I've got a semi-emergency situation - the 6-yr-old FHW boiler has cracked
(leaking water) in my condo rental (noticed the first time the brand new tenants
tried to turn on the heat) and it should be fixed asap.  The tenants had a local
plumber look at it and give an estimate of $2900 to replace the whole unit and
we've gotten a couple phone quotes in the $2500 range, but this seems ridiculous-
ly high for a relatively young heater.  Am I wrong in this?  What *is* the
typical lifespan (and price) of these units anyway?  If the boiler is cracked,
can't just a portion of the unit be replaced?  I don't know the technical de-
tails of the heater model (my husband has been handling the estimates), but I
will find out tonight...sigh.

Thanks for any suggestions,

-Cori

       <<< SERENA::SERENA$DUA2:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2025.52                        Plumbers                            52 of 54
MFGMEM::S_JOHNSON "Chicago"                          10 lines  12-SEP-1990 09:36
                 -< $2500 installed is in the right ballpark. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Check the warranty on the boiler.  For example, a Peerless cast iron boiler
 I had installed 2 years ago has a 20 year warranty against the boiler cracking.

  Do you know the cause of the crack, i.e., from examining the unit, was it
 abused, or does it appear that it may have been a manufacturing defect?  Who is
 the mfg of the boiler?  You might call them to see what the warranty is, if
 you can't find your copy of it.

  Steve

    This is a recommendation for a plasterer.  (Or rather taper, and joint
    compound person).
    I found his ad in a local paper which said "You hang it, I"ll tape it".
    He lives in Lowell, MA but the ad was in the Times Free Press out of
    Ayer.
    The ad said 'Quality job at the right price' and this was definately
    the right price.  I got a quote from Preferred Interiors out of
    Littleton (mentioned previously) for $1700.  
    This guy did it for $500 cash.  I provided the materials ($80).
    (To get an idea of the size of the job, I hung 36 sheets of 8' plus
    26 sheets of 12 sheetrock).
    It took him 4 days and he did an excellent job, and left things very 
    neat.  I never saw him after he came to give me a price, so I don't 
    even know how many people worked on it.  His name is Ralph (don't know 
    his last name) and his number is 508-454-0381.
    
    Tell him I referred you.
    
    Dave
    

    This is a hearty recommendation for John McNamara, plastering
    contractor. He did the garage, family room, mud room, and two bedrooms
    in our new addition. The bill came in under the estimate. Not only do
    John and his crew do a fine job, they are very neat and clean up after
    themselves. I was at home waiting to have a baby and then with a
    newborn for the time that they were working. They had to walk through
    my existing living space to plaster the bedrooms, but they were very
    careful not to disturb me or the baby.
    
    John works from Marlboro, but does travel. His number is 508 485-3051.
    

    I just had an entire house done by Preferred Interior Contractors out
    of Littleton (1-800-696-4342).   They did the insulation, wallboard,
    and skim coat.  I can't say enough good things about the job they did.
    We went with a smooth finish through most of the house and a light
    texture finish on one of our cathedral cielings.  In the house there
    are plastered arches, cathedral and tray cielings, soffits, ...
    Everthing came out great.  
    
    We worked with Lenny Leone, one of the partners.  Super nice guy.  He
    DROVE US on a Saturday to a few of the houses he has done so we could
    look at the different finishes.  He also gave us some tips on priming
    and painting the walls.  I found a couple small areas that needed touch
    up (not bad for a 3200 sq ft house) and the work was done the next day
    without any hassle.  The crew also left the house quite clean and this
    was new construction.
    
    - Mike
    

    I'm looking for the names of some contractors who can do skim coating
    over blueboard.  I live in Concord, MA...
    
    If you've dealt with someone nearby and are happy with the results,
    will you please mail me his/her address and telephone number?
    
    thanks
    
    tony
    ESMAIL::BEAN
    DTN 249-4184
    

    I'm looking for someone to skim coat an addition I have been building.
    The blue board is up. I live in Grafton,just outside of Worcester.
    
    Thanks.......
    
    Marc Hildebrant
    Flower::Hildebrant
    223-1211

    
    I thought that I would take a moment and enter a reference for our
    plasterers. They did a great job on our house in Berlin but, what
    really got me to liking them wasn't only their workmanship and
    attitudes but all the little extras the did for nothing w/o being
    asked. 
    
    Chair City Drywall
            &
    Thincoat Plastering
    31 Chestnut St.
    Gardner Mass 01440
    630-1425 630-1048 (sorry I don't know the area code)

	I need contractors in the Lancaster MA area that work with
	sheetrock.  I've looked in the 'contractors' section of
	this notes file and called many who were listed.  They all
	seem to only work with blueboard/plastering.

	Before I go to the yellow pages and pick an unknown, 
	if any of you know of people who work with sheetrock and 
	have had a good experience with them, will you send me 
	their name and number?

	I'm in the process of hanging the wallboard, so most of
	it will be hung, I'll need someone to tape, joint compound
	and sand the surface for painting.

	I'll thank everyone in advance.
	
	Regards,
	Elsie

    
    
    My daughter and son-in-law just had some drywall work done
    by C & C Drywall in the Ashburnham/Gardner area.  They came
    highly recommended and their work was very good.  I'm sure
    they would go to Lancaster.  Their number is 827-4617.
    
    
    

    Any more recent recommendations in the Boxboro area?
    
    thank you
    
    	John

    William Telford
    School ST. Acton
    263-5954
    
    I used Bill for a relatively small job, bathroom remodel. He does
    ecellent work, is reasonably priced, showed up when promised, and 
    left the job site spotless.
    
    BTW, he did the plastering only......I put up the blueboard prior
    to his estimating the job.
    
    Jonathan

    	John Ducharme of Gardner has done work for me twice now and he's
    been fairly clean, prompt, courteous and did a great job on my house.
    It's almost impossible to keep 100% clean when doing any kind of
    plaster work, but he did a really good job of not tracking everything
    throughout my house.  He has done work on the Cape, Acton, etc... so I
    don't think that it would be a problem for him to go to Boxboro.
    

    
    
    Anyone know a good plasterer that can work in Hudson Ma?
    I have an unfinished cape that's boarded and ready for the
    best price-performance plasterer I can get.  I have 72, 8'
    sheets up in two bedrooms and one bath.
    
    Also, does anyone know what the price per sq foot comes out to?
    
    Please respond to ad::lloyd
    

    This is my second entry into this file for the same contractors. True
    to my ambitions stated earlier in this note, I have completed my entire
    home with new walls and ceilings. Someone has also asked for a referral
    for Preferred Interiors so I will simply append the message I sent
    them.
    greetings,
    
        I'll assunme that your going through the kind of thing that I
    am....   Lot of fun but lot of stress as well.  I have hired Preferred
    Interiors Twice now. Once about 3 years ago and once just finishing up
    now. They were both big jobs, about 7 complete rooms each with some real
    tricky challenges (lot of tricky angles, skylights, weld-a-bond and plaster
    over some old plaster, and working in finished rooms as well as new
    construction). They took it all in stride, no nonsense, completed the jobs
    very quickly and thoroughly to my complete satisfaction. No 
    dissappointments no added stress (the latter being a very significant 
    virtue when your dealing with a lot of big investment, big risk steps 
    to completing a project you'll be living with for many years ahead. They
    are excellent professionals. I hope this input helps.
    Good Luck on your project.             Pg
    

    
    I highly recommend STOW DRYWALL.  We built a house last summer and they
    gave us the best price around - his blueboard/skimcoat beat regular
    sheetrock prices.  I gave his name to a friend in Sudbury for a small
    addition and also to a builder in Harvard (large new construction) and
    both were very happy with the work.  One crew comes in and hangs, and
    then the other comes in to plaster ("each to his own trade" is a motto
    I've come to appreciate).  They were fast workers putting out excellent
    quality for a good price.  The ONLY downside is that they like to start
    at 6:00am.

    Don skim coated a very badly damaged kitchen ceiling and installed
    and finished new sheetrock in our hallway.  
    
    I was *extremely impressed with his reliability.  I spoke with Don
    on a Thursday evening.  He was available that weekend but booked
    for the next few weekends - so...  He showed up Saturday and Sunday
    morning and Monday night (despite the snow).   
    
    Don did a beautiful job and even touched up a few spots we had
    tried to do ourselves on  the walls.  
    
    I'd highly recommend his work.  
    
    (603)883-7299
    Don Champain (Champlain?)
    Merrimack, NH
    
    

    The last reference for John Mossey (Peperrell, see notes .10 and .11
    for other details and phone #) was 3 years ago.   I just used him again
    for a small job (one large room plus hall).  Showed up on time for the
    estimate, showed up on time for the job.  Was particularly careful
    about not messing up the existing house, and even taped paper down to
    the floor of the work room so as to not drip on the underlayment.  
    Charged me about $19/sheet (I hung the board) with a rough ceiling.  (I
    Didn't ask the extra charge for a smooth ceiling, since I didn't want
    it anyway).  
    
    The quality of the job is super (the corners look absolutely
    machine-made).  In particular, he seems very skilled at invisibly
    joining up to existing plaster where the new rooms meet the old.

I highly recommend Bob Thompson for plastering work.  We have had several
plastering jobs performed in the last 3 years and his work is, by far, the
best.  We hired him to plaster the cathedral ceiling and walls of our new 
family room (he brought a crew to install the sheetrock). We also had
him do 2 smaller jobs - he recently plastered the walls in a bathroom and a 
wall in the dining room.  In all his work is great. His prices are reasonable, he is very
easy to work with, and we found him quite reliable.  He is insured and gives
estimates.

Bob can be reached at 508-521-4597 and lives in Bradford, MA.  I don't know
where this town is but think it is near the NH border.  He recently moved
there from Salem, NH.  He is willing to travel.

Kathy 

    
    	I'd like to put in a recommendation for a sheetrocker.  He is my
    	neighbor.  He hangs sheetrock full time.  He did our house when
    	it was being built, and just did the second floor that we are in
    	the process of finishing.  Super job, and works fast.  He did the
    	first floor in a bit more than one day, and did the second floor
    	in about 10 hours over two days.  I worked with him on the second
    	floor.  He's very concientious about doing it right.
    
    	He also does general carpentry.  Wood or metal studding.  I had
    	built my framing, but had him help me set the walls to ensure 
    	that they were straight.  He also helped me move the builders
    	8' ceiling  in one room to cathedral it.  He also worked with
    	me to install two double windows, and a 6' slider.  He really
    	knows what he's doing.
    
    	He's available after work and during weekends.  Give him a call
    	to discuss price and schedule.
    
    	Dennis Roberts - Weare, N.H. - 529-7561
    
    	He will travel, he works around Boston, and says he'll travel
    	N.H. and eastern/central Mass.
    
    	Call me or send mail if you want more. (DTN: 264-0428)
    
    	Glenn M. Roy
    

    
    	I'd also like to recommend a tape and mud guy.  He is Dennis's
    	B-I-L. and usually does all the tape and mud work for the rock
    	that Dennis (see -.1) hangs.
    
    	Nice work.  He also did my first floor  when the house was built,
    	and I wouldn't have anyone else do my tape and mud.  He does very
    	little sanding, because when he puts the mud on, he does it right.
    	Also, very little mud on the floors.
    
    	Call him for price and schedule.  Does ceilings flat or designs,
    	flowers, etc.  Willing to travel.
    
    	Dan Dostie - Weare, N.H. - 529-7458
    
    	Call me (DTN: 264-0428) or send mail if you want more.
    
    	thanks, Glenn Roy
    

    Ditto on John McNamara. He did a nice job putting up a new ceiling
    for me.  My only complaint is that he is such demand that he was not
    available to do the work on the first day we agreed upon.  Other than
    that, he was very careful in my home and the job was nicely done.
    
    
    							Fred
    
           <<< 12DOT2::NOTES$STUFF:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Home_work >-
================================================================================
Note 2028.22                Sheetrockers / Plasterers                   22 of 39
MSBCS::A_HARRIS                                      11 lines  21-MAR-1991 12:29
                         -< John McNamara--Plasterer >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is a hearty recommendation for John McNamara, plastering
    contractor. He did the garage, family room, mud room, and two bedrooms
    in our new addition. The bill came in under the estimate. Not only do
    John and his crew do a fine job, they are very neat and clean up after
    themselves. I was at home waiting to have a baby and then with a
    newborn for the time that they were working. They had to walk through
    my existing living space to plaster the bedrooms, but they were very
    careful not to disturb me or the baby.
    
    John works from Marlboro, but does travel. His number is 508 485-3051.
    

    I am looking a good plaster in the Wilmington, Mass area.  Does anyone
    have any recomendations.   Thanks,,,
    

    Another recommendation for Bill Telford (see .30).  He's just
    finishing up for me 3 rooms and a stairwell with associated 
    upstairs and downstairs hallways.  As reported in .30, he does
    excellent work, he shows up on time, and he's neat.  He worked
    with his son, who is also throroughly professional.
    

    I have a recommendation for a Plaster in the Wilmington Mass area. His
    name is Mike Riddel, his Phone number is 508-657-4092.  He plastered a
    family room and ceiling for me.  He did a good job and his price was
    good.

    This is going to be a loaded question, but here goes.  I'm trying to
    help my mother-in-law find someone to do repairs around the house and
    don't know what kind a person/people we need.  The house in question is
    a two family, one upstairs and one downstairs.
    
    The upstairs bathroom needs to have a wrap around installed in the
    shower area, the tile is old and leaking.  At the same time, the floor
    needs some work, the tub is starting to slant, thus, causing all the
    grout to separate from the walls, thus, causing the water to run
    down through the walls.  Also, the faucets are old and leaking and need
    to be replaced.  Now the question, how many people are required for this
    job, is there one person who would do all or do I need more than one type
    of a person. 
    
    Secondly, because the walls are leaking, the downstairs ceiling needs
    to be painted.  This should be pretty simple, just a painter, right?
    
    I looked through note 2000 for related professions, but because I don't
    know what/who I'm looking for, I didn't post anything in these notes. 
    When I know what type of a person to look for, I'll repost my note
    under the specialty looking for references. 
    
    Thanks for any information,
    Lisa Cozzens
    Groton, MA

    If it were me I would first have a lisenced (sp) plumber (at least one
    maybe 2) give me an estimate.  The plumber may have a subcontractor or
    at least a strong recomendation to do other work he/she can't do.
    
    Regarding the ceiling that is damaged due to a leak.  Termites love wet
    wood - you should have someone like a carpenter or even a multitalented
    plumber look at the damage - or potential future damagae....I wouldn't
    just paint over a water damaged ceiling.
    
    good luck,
    Joyce

    May I suggest a remodeling contractor to handle the whole thing.
    I would recommend Arthur D. Magazu - Not only is he my hubby - 
    he does good work and he has been in the business for > 15 years.
    
    He specializes in remodeling.  - This includes patching, fixing, 
    painting, plumbing, the whole gamit.
    
    You can call or get an estimate at: 897-5797 
    

I'm looking for comments on RDC Complete Drywall out of Milford NH.  It is
owned by Roger Pellitier (I think that is spelled right).

If you want, feel free to E-mail me comments.

Thanx.

- Mark

    Ed Derek - Exceptional Plasterer, etc.. he lives in Oakham, Ma.
    I think his co name is countryside.  Call Information for his number.
    

    I would highly recommend the following plaster Company. After
    investigating many companies and obtaining many quotes he was 
    the most reasonable. He plastered over blueboard and skim coated
    additional walls. I was very happy with the quality and the price 
    of his work.
    
    NAME: John Couter
    COMPANY: JT Plastering
    LOCATION: Shrewsbury, MA.
    NUMBER: (508) 757-3771
    
    Tell him that Steven O'Loughlin from Digital recommended him.
                  

    I would also highly recommend Don Champagne of Merrimack, NH for
    any and all work related to dry wall/sheetrock.
    
    We only needed a small hole fixed in one of the walls - he did a
    good job, came on time, and charged *less* than he had given an
    estimate for when he was done!  Now that is honesty.
    
    We were very satisfied with him.
    
    Don Champagne
    883-7299
    

    Having a 200 year old house done with the old horse hair plaster -
    which has seen better days - made me be very careful in looking for a
    plasterer/painter. I used Rob Roy of Amherst, NH for both painting and
    plaster repair and was extremely pleased with his work, his neatness,
    and his price. He has been in business for almost 20 years and has
    exellent references.
    
    dana
    

        I had my bedroom plastered yesterday.  The plasterer did an
        excellent job.  The room is approximately 16 X 13 with two
        alcoves which will be closets.  The room was torn down to
        the fraiming and I ran strapping along the ceiling length wise.

        He furnished all the supplies and completed the walls and ceiling
        in six hours with an assistant.  He did a very nice textured
        design on the ceiling also.  He does not advertise and gets his
        work by word of mouth and has maintained a steady business for ten 
	years and is fully insured.
        
	Total costs was $450.00 and well worth it.  His results were
	perfection.  I would have no reservations about reccomending
	and the services he would provide.

	J.Quinn. Inc. 
	Worcester, Mass. (508)791-7571
        

Recently, whenever we turn off any faucet in any of the bathrooms or when
the toilets tank shuts off after filling, we hear a whistling/screeching 
sound through the house as if it coming from the water pipes or something.

It happens for couple of days, then the sound stops by itself. Then it
starts again. 

We called several plumbers, they couldn't tell us what was happening - one
suggested that some connection may be loose somewhere. 

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. 

thanks
shamim

    sounds like a valve is getting jarred by the water-hammer that occurs
    when the faucet/toilet is shut off.
    
    My guess would be a toilet fill valve. Try turning off all the shutoffs
    to your toilets and then go turn faucets on and off to see if the noise
    is gone.. 
    
    ...tom

my guess was water hammer was involved, but i've no idea what is
making the noise.  in case you do not know about water hammer:
water has inertia, when you turn off the water, you get a bump
from the sudden stop.  that can eventually shake things loose
and cause other damage.  to prevent it, there should be a capped
vertical pipe near each faucet, toilet, etc.  it is hidden in
the wall.  the air in the pipe acts as a shock absorber.
over time, the air disolves in the water, reducing the volume of
air and thus making it less effective as a shock absorber.

you might want to replenish the air cushions. to do so,
turn off the main valve.  open every faucet, flush, etc.
drain the system.  now the pipes are full of air.
close all the faucets. open the main valve.
from one faucet at a time, run water until it runs smoothly.

if the noise is associated with the water hammer, maybe it will be
gone.  if not you have only wasted a few minutes and a few gallons.

this is not a frequent maintenance item.  the interval depends on
the size of the air filled pipe, the temperature of the water, and
the water pressure, but it is probably measured in years.

most people never have to do it.  they get the same effect, one faucet at
a time when they replace a washer.

if the problem persists, tell us how long the sound lasts,
if it varies in pitch or intensity.  maybe someone will have a good idea.
you might try locating the source of the sound. on a day when it is
happening, one person works the faucet while another roams around listening.
good luck.