Conference 7.286::home_work

    You don't want to use grout for this since it isn't very flexible.
    3M has caulking that you roll in right out of the box.  I haven't
    tried it though.  Others use white silicon.  The bottom line is
    you want something that will expand and contract as water and people
    enter and exit the tub.  If you've got a large gap, the silicon
    would be your best bet.
    
    Phil

    I remember seeing in one of the DIY magazines a recommendation
    to fill the tub with water before removing or adding caulk.
    Seems the weight of the water in the tub widens the gap making
    removal easier and better coverage when reapplying.
    
    Haven't tried it yet and am not looking forward to the work we
    need to do in our 30+ year old bathrooms.
    
    Evelyn

Fill the tub and _get_in_it_ while applying the caulk.

The stuff compresses better than it stretches, so you want to apply the 
caulk under near-maximum-stretch conditions.

    I've done this job with GE white silicone cement.  It's supposedly
    guaranteed for 50 years, but have you ever kept a receipt for that
    long?   [Actually, when buying this stuff, I always get the urge
    to squirrel away the receipt until 2036 and then send it in to GE.]
    
    It works just fine and remains flexible.  You can often find it on
    sale for $1.99/tube (after the inevitable $2 mail-in rebate).
    
    One tip:  use masking tape to define the edges, _push_ the tube
    forward while applying, remove the tape before it dries.  If you need
    to touch it up, use the bottom of a plastic spoon within 5 minutes.  Most
    of these ideas are printed on the tubes.
    
    __Rich

I have to admit it, but I really blew it on grouting my bathroom floor.  The
way one normally grouts is to apply the grout with a squeege and let it dry for
awhile.  Then using a damp sponge, you clean up the excess.  My problem was I
waited a little longer than I should have.  That normally wouldn't have been a
problem except it's a big floor so by the time I got to the end, the grout had
been sitting for close to 2 hours and was fairly hard.  Problems were further
complicated by the fact that the grout lines are quite narrow (nor much more
than 1/16") and the grout didn't fill as well as it could have - in retrospect,
I should have made the grout soupier...

Anyhow, the grout that dried too long is sticking to the sides of the tiles and
therefore appears to be around 1/4" wide!  It's very easy to chip it off back to
where it should be, but when doing this there are places that have hollows.

If I run a putty knife down the grout lines, most of the excess grout chips off
leaving a reasonable grout line, but in places it's a bit deep and in other
places there is no grout at all.

What I want to know is can I simply mix up a new batch of grout and lay it down
over what's currently there?  Fortunately I haven't sealed it yet, but I just
don't know if the new grout will adequately adhear to the old and the thought of
trying to remove ALL the grout is one I'd prefer not to think about.  The old
grout has only been there for about 3 weeks. 

-mark

    
    
     I would remove as much of the old grout as possible and then re-grout
    the floor. The new grout should adhere to the old grout ok if the
    old grout is clean. I would also suggest you dampen the old grout
    before laying the new grout. I learned this lesson the hard way
    also screwing up in a very similar fashion. I did what I suggested
    and everything came out ok. When I grout tile now I only work in
    a about a 6 sq. ft. area at a time and make sure I do the first
    cleaning before I go on to the next area to be grouted. God, I love
    experience but it's a real pain to acquire!!!
    
    
    -mike
     
    

    We are in the process of redoing our kitchen.  We finally found
    the tiles we wanted for the floor, but now we need grout.  I have
    been to about 7 tile places and can find noone who carries royal
    blue grout.  They all insist that someone must make it, try another
    place.  Any suggestions on sources or brands of grout?  I looked
    in this file under grout and tile but noone else mentioned this
    subject.  
    
    Michelle

I went through the same search a few years ago, for earth tones grout.
For naught. The only solution I found was to get the mixing colors
I needed and blend my own. The tubes of colors should be available
at you tile store.

You may have to try several blends before you are happy with the results.
It lokks very different dry than it does wet. Also, be sure and check it
out under all the lighting conditions you expect. Incandescent, fluorescent,
sunlight. The color will be significantly differrent under each.

Bob

   FWIW, Peter Hotton (who writes a HOME_WORK column for the Boston Globe)
   thinks colored grout is ridiculous, since it all turns gray from dirt.

    I got a dark brown (walnut) grout from Color Tile in Chelmsford.
    I seem to think they had blue as well but I'm not sure.  If you
    find a place please post it here.  I have plans for a blue floor
    in my kitchen in the future.
    
    By the way, it's been roughly six months since I did my bathroom
    floor and it is still a nice walnut brown color!
    
    Joyce
    

    For colored grout, and questions for "Ask the expert" go to 
    Once Apon A Tile in Fitchburg. Good selection/great help!

    I got 'buff' and 'gold' grout from Tile City...they are in
    Nashua (rt 101a) and in Natick (rt.9) ...
    They seemed to have every color imaginable...and I think
    the dyes so you could 'diy' as someone suggested.
    
    deb
    
    oh, both colors are still great after 18 months...
    

I got some royal blue grout at Sommerville Lumber in Pelham, NH in March of 1988

    I just finished putting down 930 sq. ft of Q tiles and used a chocolate
    brown grout.  I noticed that the finished job looked lighter than the 
    grout sample at Brick House in Keene, where I bought the grout.  I was
    careful not to wash the color out of the grout when sponging off the 
    tiles.  You may want to get a tone darker than whatever you are
    matching, color wise.  
    
    On mixing your own color.  I used seven 25lb bags of grout mix.  It 
    would have taken forever to mix my own.  For a small area it might not
    be so bad.  I would also recommend getting the latex to mix with the
    grout instead of H2O and use grout sealer after your done to insure
    that your grout doesn't turn grey like everybody elses.  (a little
    joke)
    
    Mark
    

>< Note 3393.2 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >
>
>   FWIW, Peter Hotton (who writes a HOME_WORK column for the Boston Globe)
>   thinks colored grout is ridiculous, since it all turns gray from dirt.

Obviously, Peter  Hotton  does  not  know what he is talking about when he says
that all colored  grout  turns  gray  from  dirt.  We used a brown color on the
mosaic tiles in the  bathroom floor over 10 years ago and it STILL looks brown.
Hmmm, perhaps 10 years is  not  long  enough.    Perhaps we clean the floor too
often.

                                     :-)  

Even the Globe can shoot with blanks now and then....

Dave

    re.8
    
    
     Funny, the dirt in Leominster Ma. IS brown.   :^)
    
                                                
    

    What does the average reporter actualy know about ANYTHING anyway?
    
    My brown grout is still brown after 6 years and the white is still
    white after 16 years.
    
    -j
    

    If you haven't yet found what you're looking for, try Upstairs
    Downstairs in the Nagog Mall in Acton MA.  They have a wide selection
    of tile, grout, etc.
    
    	Marlene

    Isn't the key to keeping your grout the color it started out with, a
    sealer? From what I understand, the reason grout discolors/gets dirty
    is that there was no sealer used, or the sealer was not reapplied every
    so often?
 		     Cindy
    	

    Thanks for your help.  I had some limited success.  Once upon a
    tile in Fitchburg and Tile World in Revere both had good selections
    of blue grout.  Once upon a tile had 3 shades, wedgewood, navy and
    cobalt (none the shade I need). Tile World had about 5 shades of
    blue, not what I needed.  I guess I will settle for white grout
    with a sealer (recommended by tile World).
    
    If I use a sealer do I have to reapply it?
    
    Michelle

    
    Fitzgeralds in woburn is a distributor to the tile trade and has
    a showroom in front of a hugh warehouse. You name it they have it.
    
    

    From my VAST experience concerning tiles, I was told that you need to
    reapply the sealer every year to keep dirt and moisture away from the
    grout especially light colored grout.
    Also, did you try METCO in Shrewsbury, Ma. (508-842-5651). They have
    some really interesting tile (of course the ones I like are $26 a tile
    but....) and I imagine their grout collection is large.
    		Cindy
    
    P.S. METCO is on Rt. 9 right by Shrewsbury Commons (condos).
    

    One little point, when you look at grout samples, you may want
    to inquire if the sample grout was mixed with a latex additive
    or water. .7 mentioned that the color was different than the
    sample. This could be the reason, or the lots could have been
    different. Most grout packages will mention that the color may
    be different, depending on what it is mixed with.
    
    							Chris

      Apparently  blue  grout  is  available,  but not as widely as some
      other colors.  A few years ago we inquired about  blue  grout  and
      were  told  is  wasn't  available,  but  we  could make our own by
      starting with white grout and adding concrete dye which  could  be
      had at any masonry supply house.  We ended up going with a "stock"
      color, so I can't tell you how this might work.

    A related question.  Does anyone know where I can purchase blue
    silicone bathtub calk?  I have seen white, clear, almond, etc.,
    etc. but nothing ever in blue.  When you have a blue tub and 
    surround, it would be nice to have blue calk.
    
    Louie
    

    This seems the best spot for this question...
    
    We recently bought a house...the upstairs addition is about 15 years
    old.  There is no caulking between the tub and the linoleum in the
    upstairs bath.  Before we caulk, if there is water damage already,
    would caulking make the problem worse?  And, is there anyway to tell
    (short of ripping up the linoleum to look), whether or not there is
    water damage there?  some sort of moisture meter maybe???
    
    
    Thanks 
    
    Susan
    

    My upstairs bathtub is cast iron ceramic surrounded with grouted tiles
    with a painted ceiling.  The house is 50+ years old, so the grout and
    tile could be the original.  My problems/questions are the following:
    
    1. Dark mildew is now very apparent between the tiles (on the grout)
    and on the painted ceiling.  Are there any suggestions on how to 
    remove and prevent?  I've tried a couple of the "no-scrub" mildew 
    removers with minimal success (even after scrubing!). 
    
    2. When I am ready to repaint the ceiling (after sanding and cleaning),
     should I use external marine paint?  Regular latex?  Other?  How about
     the mildew inhibitors that can be added to paint...any good?
    
    3. And now to the grout itself.  It is not coming out yet and does not
    appear to be lose, but has developed in places small gaps between the
    grout and the tiles (where the mildew loves to form).  Is my best bet to
    try to pry the grout out and regrout those areas?  Can I simply grout
    over the small cracks?       
    
    Thanks in advance!

There are many notes in this file dealing with these subjects.  They should all 
be listed in the keyword directories.  For mildew removal, try looking in 
1111.67 (MOLD_MILDEW&ROT).  For painting ceilings, try 1111.23 (ceilings) or 
1111.69 (PAINT-INTERIOR).  For the grout, try 1111.99 (TILE&SLATE).  And for 
notes which may have escaped all of the above, try 1111.13 (BATHROOM).

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Paul [Moderator]

    I'm trying to find colored grout in a small quantity.  I just bought a
    house which has ceramic tile in the kitchen which has a redish-brown
    grout.  (Once Upon a Tile called it Quarry Red)  We had the previous
    owners remove their old clunker built-in dishwasher so we could install
    our own.  They removed three tiles to do this.
    
    Once Upon a Tile said Quarry Red has been discontinued by their
    supplier.  Color Tile doesn't have colored grout.  Peletier's Building
    Supply has it in a 10 lb. bag.  This is much more than I'll need for
    the job.
    
    Mixing my own color sounds like a good idea, but what should I ask for,
    and would the white grout come in a smaller quantity?
    
    Regards,
    	    JAM

    Re: Color Tile...
    
    Maybe they didn't have your color, but Color Tile *does* carry colored
    grout, in at least 12 different shades. You can also find colored grout
    at Somerville Lumber, and possible Grossman's, HQ, etc, but their
    smallest size is probably much more than what you need.
    
    If you go to a place like Color Tile, they may even be willing to give
    you a small sample of the grout to bring home in order to check out the
    match, or even try to help you blend a couple of colors to get the shade 
    you need.
    
    
    

    Can anyone give me some advice on when you can work on tile floor after
    grouting it?
    
    I tiled my bathroom Saturday and Sunday morning.  I plan on grouting
    tonight, Monday.  I have tentatives plan for a plumbing to come by on
    Tues morning to install a toilet.  How long should I leave the grout
    to cure before?  I thought the grout package directions indicated
    72 hours but seems quite a long time.  If this is true then I will
    have to push the plumber job out to at least Fri morning, 3 1/2 days?
    
    Thanks,
    Paul

    
    That curing time is *probably* either:
    
      -  the time it takes for maximum water resistance to be attained.
    
      -  the min time before grout sealer can be applied.
    
    As long as you do not plan to get it very wet you should be able to
    work on it as soon as the tile adhesive or cement is cured.
    
    regards,
    
    Colin

I'm sure you must have an answer to your question by now since it was a few weeks
ago that you entered the note. It's a good 3 days 'curing' time. I just finished
regrouting my shower wall and it needed to cure for 3 days. It might even be 
longer for floors. I know that my grout package talked about cure time. I'll
check it out if you still need an answer.

Gail

    Most of the replies are for grout or caulk of tubs with tile around
    them.  My problem is with a shower stall that has plasterboard meeting
    it at the top.  Of which, the plaster (due to moisture I assume) is 
    cracking and bubbling up.
    
    What should I do to repair this?  Short of ripping all the plaster off.  
    
    	-TB

    
    Well, you might be able to chip it out and re-plaster it.
    Then again you could buy a 4x8 sheet of that masonity wiht
    the flowers and thinks...  Worse case, replace it with the
    moisture sheetrock.
    
    Now, do you have a venting problem that my unfix a fix later???
    JD
    

    The venting or I should say lack of, is the culprit.
    None of the baths (2.5) have any venting!  kinda dumb but my guess 
    is that this house when built, 3-4 years ago, was built with 
    "energy conservation" in mind.  And, beleiving that any kind of open
    hole in a house was a greater devil than the potential harm it could
    create!  I hope to take care of that in the warmer weather but in the 
    meantime, I'd like to hold back the crumbling somehow.
    I thought of scrapping some of the looser stuf and then caulking but
    I'm not sure that would hold.
    
    Any other ideas?

    
    How about if you give it a few days to dry out, rake off the
    loos stuff and slap a coat of waterproof paint like (Dry-Lok)
    over it.  Then build up some caulk over the waterproof paint.
    
    regards,
    
    Colin
    

re: 1692.7                  re-grouting around tub                       7 of 9
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                              -< fix the problem >-
>    
>Then again you could buy a 4x8 sheet of that masonity wiht
>the flowers and thinks...  Worse case, replace it with the

This solution is really quite good, and I'll tell you why.

My downstairs bath is a model of no vent; moisture; mildew; peeling
coated fiber board. When I live there alone, it was a minimal problem. 
After getting married with two teenage boys; more visitors;
the problems worsened much faster ... use makes some things wear
out faster.

The tub was originally surrounded with water-resistant fiberboard (1955?),
and chipped an began leaking. The previous owner put cabinets over the
tub/shower ... making 6'6" walls. The new tub surround is only 72".

We did get sheet of 'water resistant' fiber board, cut it to fit both 
on the wall and overhead; and grouted all the seams (corners) with 
a good quality caulk (don't use the clear latex/rubber. Be sure to use
the 'colored' bathtup caulk. They are somehow different after setting up, 
and the colored 'looks better'.)

Follow all instructions carefully for installing. It looks great. I'm
partially sorry I didn't use the water resistant fiber board for the whole
bathroom. (Maybe after I finish the one upstairs, I will.)

Bob

    re; .9
    
    I like that idea Colin!  I may give that a try.
    
    Thanks!
    
    	-Tony

    
    Here's my delayed followup:
    
    The ceramic floor tile mastic compound cured enough to walk on in about 
    one days time.  I'll estimate 30 hours.
    
    We used the shower one day before applying the grout, while taking
    precautions not to get the floor wet.
    
    We walked on the grouted tile and used the bathroom about a day and a
    half after applying the grout.  This was cautious use of the bathroom 
    with shoes removed.
    
    The curing times stated on the mastic and grout packages were correct,
    but do not have to be followed to the letter.
    
    Cheers,
    Paul
                           
    PS.  Now I have to look into sealing grout! 

    
    I am planning on putting down a new tile floor in my mom's
    bathroom.  The current floor has the small mosaic tile, with
    white grout.  You would never know it was white though, because
    it looks black.  Yeah, there are probably ways to really get
    the group clean and bleached and put a sealer on eveery once in
    a while, but with heavy traffic  including a dog and two cats,
    and a very busy lifestyle, there's no way I want my mom to have 
    to deal with dirty grout again.  Problem is, she wants tile again,
    not linoleum.
    
    So, I was wondering if it would work to have grey grout in between
    the new tiles (she has grey wall tile, so that would match).
    Seems that if it's going to get dirty, then it won't be as
    noticable if the grout were grey. 
    
    What do you all have for tile/grout in your bathroom?

    I have tan colored tiles in one bathroom with sandstone colored
    grout. Kind of a greyish-tan color.  Works for me.  My kitchen
    has off-white/tan tile with a design on them and chocolate brown
    grout.
    
    I agree, no white grout!
    

    We put (sanded) gray grout between our (small, white) floor tiles.
    Looks good.
    
    In re finding small quantities of grout:
    
    Good luck.  We never found any sanded grout in < 10lb bags.  Ended
    up chucking most of one bag.
    
    Mark

    
     I just completed a kitchen tile job - whew! I don't think I would do
    that again any time soon. Anyway, to my (and my wife's) disappointment
    the grout color is much lighter than I want it to be - definitely 
    not as dark as  the shop sample looked. It is too late to take it all
    out and re-do so we started wondering if there was any way to paint the 
    grout. Has any one heard of this? What kind of paint will stick to
    cured portland cement? If any one has ever done this, is it a good
    idea?
    
    
    

Have you sealed the grout yet?  Maybe the sample in the store was sealed to keep
it clean.  I would think this would darken it.

    
    Sealer will darken it. So will age... (which is why most sample
    boards do not represent results very well).
    
    							- Mac 

    RE Painting grout
    
    There is a way to change the color.  One company makes a stain for
    grout.  You can apply it at anytime, but I'm not sure if it works well
    with sealed grout.  We picked up some to do in one of our bathrooms. 
    The original grout was white, but over the years has discolored to the
    point where it's pretty ugly looking.  I haven't done it yet, so I
    can't tell you how well it works.
    
    Ken

Hi,

Any updates on staining or painting grout??  

/marc

This takes me back a few years, but when I did a grouting job on a mudroom
project, I blew it big time and used too much water.  The color in most of the
grout was horribly streaked.  I found a bruch-on, water soluble epoxy product
(sorry, but the name is home) that cost something like $30 or so for a wee bitty
bottle, but if covered the 100+ sq ft of tile with a lot left over. 

That was several years ago and it hasn't show any signs of wear.

The only point is thought that the grout wasn't sealed first.

-mark

    I recently had a ceramic tile floor installed in my kitchen.  The
    grout was the kind you only add water to - no additives.  I know the
    floor was solid (two 3/4" plywood layers screwed in) and the 
    contractor that installed the floor does it for a living.  I've
    had the grout in several tiles crumble.  The contractor came and
    repaired them, but the same and other grout seams are doing the
    same thing.  The contractor thinks there may have been a bad run
    of this particular grout compound and is telling me to go back to
    the store and see what the manager will do.  The contractor is not
    offering to dig out and regrout the floor.  Sooooo, I'm stuck right
    in the middle here.  
    
    Any suggestions from my usually good advisers in this notesfile?  
    
    Thanks,
    Chick

    
    Does this contractor have a warranty on his work?? Sounds to me that if
    he choose this grout and it is not working, he should be the one to
    redo the job.
    
    Mary
    

The grout was sealed after application, wasn't it?  I can't imagine someone
who does this for a living not sealing them. I CAN imagine him not being
anxious to offer to remove and replace all the grout.  Even if only some 
of it is currently crumbling, the task of digging it all out is a rather 
daunting and tiresome one.  Grouting is probably the easiest part of
laying down ceramics, but digging it out is another story entirely.

Hmmm, how much money would you offer for someone else to do it? ;-)

(of course my wife would probably recommend that you don't hire me,
seeing how many weeks it took me to lay down the basement floor ;-)


PeterT

Last time I did ceramic tile floors.......

You can buy (recommended to me by a tile shop) a latex_liquid to mix with the
grout instead of water that "supposedly" eliminates this problem (crumbling
grout).  Since the bottle was a miniscule percentage of the cost of the
project, I went with it.  No problems after a few years. 

Then again, the kid on a corner in down_town Nashua was asked why he was
snapping his fingers.  He answered, condescendingly, "It keeps away the
rampaging elephants." The questioner observed that there have never been any
rampaging elephants in Nashua." 

"See?", the urchin replied.

Not much going on, today.......

    Great reply.  Thanks.  The only problem is my floor is going to look
    like the "rumbling elephants" crossed over it in a few years, unless
    I get some help removing the old grout and putting in the new with
    the latex additive.  I'm workin' on it!
    
    Thanks again.
    Chick

By the way and unless (hopefully) another noter has had a better experience...

I have never been able to remove grout with anything that resembles ease. I 
have tried MANY different tools designed for just that purpose; a toolbox's 
version of snakeoil/Slick50. About the only real success I had was popping up 
the whole floor and relaying it.

If I had a contractor put in a floor and found the grout crumbling, he and I 
would be in small claims court, if necessary.  About anything you do, now, will 
be only a band-aid. I do hope someone else has a better way.

Luck,

Dave

    
    Also check into the possibility that he used the wrong grout for the
    job. Even the latex additive will be of no help if the grout laid is 
    not rated for the width of grout line installed. That is, putting a 
    sanded grout into very tight grout lines will fail... put the wrong 
    rated sanded grout (or unsanded) into wider grout lines will fail. If
    he screwed it up in either direction, he's clearly at fault.
    
    								- Mac