Conference 7.286::home_work

    Buy fixtures designed for recessed installation. These are designed
    to allow heat to escape in a diffrent manner than standard fixtures.
    If there ever was a problem i would want to know *I* had installed
    the proper stuff for the job.
    
    -j
    

    You can get the plastic diffuser panels at Grossmans (and I'm sure
    many other places as well), but I agree with .1 that you should
    really buy the proper fixtures that are designed for the use you
    want.  Any lighting store should have these fixtures, or at least
    be able to order them.  Check around; prices may vary.

my only thoughts are that even if you got the recessed lights into place, how
would you snake the wires around since you have a bnch of parallel channels any
no way to go across them.

-mark

re 1. & .2 - is heat really aproblem with florescents?  I called a few 
lighting stores today and they all mentioned the 'make a box between 
the joists' trick.

re .3:

>>my only thoughts are that even if you got the recessed lights into place, how
>would you snake the wires around since you have a bnch of parallel channels any
>no way to go across them.

Luckily - this room fills 1/2 the basement, lengthwise.  the other 1/2 
is a storage room with exposed joists - perfect to snake out the wire.
/j

PS: I got a good suggestion today - use shop fixtures between the 
joists, as they already have the reflector on top, and use the metal 
pieces they use to frame ceiling tiles on drop ceilings to frame the 
hole you cut in the sheetrock.  Anyone try this?

    I have several fixtures in my shop at home and all of the run hot
    enough that I cannot hold my hand on the metal over the ballast.
    I was always told if it was too hot to hold it was too hot to enclose
    in a structure. The real question is what the fire department and
    insurance company will say if there is a problem.
    I do belive the fire protection code has has an article regarding
    recessed lighting. I will try to remember to look it up and post
    what I find.  Either way get the "egg crate" lens that looks metal
    plated it directs the light downward and really makes a diffrence
    in the amount of glare.
    
    -j
    Z

    I don't know about the fire code, but I have been installing basement
    lights like this for years, and it is cheap, attractive, and gives
    better light than most packaged recessed units.
    
    I cut out an opening in the sheetrock, 4' long and as wide as the
    joist spacing will allow. Into this I put a shop light. The real
    cheapos can be obtained from places like Channel on sale for less
    than $10. I don't really see why this would be any kind of a hazard,
    since they are fully enclosed in metal. Also, I generally don't
    box in the opening, so it is also open at the ends. I have never
    observed any of these fixtures to get hot, or even warm, on the
    outside.
    
    Next I frame in around the opening. I usually use 1" corner molding
    to do this, but I like the idea of using the suspended ceiling stuff.
    By the way, I have also used this method for suspended ceilings,
    hanging the light from the (real) ceiling above the frame.
    
    Then fit a baffle to fill the frame. I like to use the egg crate stuff,
    because it diffuses the light nicely without reducing it too much, and
    cuts most of the view into the box from below, unless you are standing
    directly under the light. It's also less likely to sag. If it still bothers you being able to see
    into the light from below, you can add one of the diffracting sheets of
    plastic with the kind of crystalline surface on top of the egg crate.
    You can actually use any pattern you like, and they come in colors,
    too. All of this stuff is available at Grossman's, Plywood Ranch,
    etc. If you didn't box in the opening it is easy to install and
    remove the baffles by sliding them back into the space between the
    joists. In fact, if you plan properly you can design it so that
    the baffles never have to be removed, but just slide back to allow
    for changing the tubes, etc. To do this, cut the baffles the full
    size of the opening and install them before putting in the frame.
    The added advantage of this is that you never have to worry about
    them falling down.
    
    At about $20 a fixture, this is the cheapest form of lighting I can
    imagine, and as I said, it can be adapted to almost any decor and
    is quite attractive. For a comparable amount of light you could
    easily pay several hundred bucks.

    If anyone has any suggestions on how to improve this method, I'd
    like to hear it. Also, if there is any evidence that recessing the
    shop light fixtures like this is a real safety hazard, I'd like
    to know that as well.
    
    - Ram

    The safety hazard that I know of is the mode of failure - smoking
    ballasts.  These buggars do get hot!
    
    An alternative is to use the new energy saving solid state types.
    There is no ballast.  The only problem I've found with these is
    in the cold weather, they don't like to start too well.  Sort of
    like a diesel.  I just turn on the lights, go upstairs for another
    cup of coffee and when I get back down it's warmed up enough.

thanks very much for all the useful feedback!!!!


We were planning to use the 'crystalline' baffles, clear ones (the 
ones that look like clear plastic with a roughed up surface)

what's an egg crate baffle?
		/j

    The egg crate baffles look like several hundred 1/2" squares all
    in neat rows and is about 1/2' thick and is usally plated with
    a metal finish over a plastic base. The metal finish being opaque
    directs the light downward and really makes a diffrence in glare.
    Check someplace that has a good stock of light accessorys and I'm
    sure you will find what I mean. It is also commonly refered to as
    down lighting since table tops,floor,ect are all well lit while
    the room looks retains a softly lit appearance.
    
    -j
    

    re: "down lighting"
    
    If you're from New England, you can check out Friendly's.  They use
    them in their stores.  If you've ever noticed when you drive by one at
    night, you can't tell if they're open or not, it's because the lights
    don't illuminate the walls and such very much so the overall effect is
    pretty dark from the outside. 
    
    -joet

Just thought I'd let you all know how it turned out......

Luckily, my basement is cut into 2 rooms perpindicular to the joists.  
The room I was lighting had some kind of board nailed onto the bottom 
of the joists, the other room had open joists, so I could see down 
between the joists before I cut the holes, and select only spaces that 
were clear of ducts etc.  Unfortunately, braces between the joists 
ran right down the middle of the dark room.  I understand these cross 
braces are meant to keep the joists from rotating.  So, I cut the 
holes (handsaw), and trimmed the ceilingboard back to the joists 
(sabresaw).  I removed the braces, and replaced them by putting a piece 
of a 2x4 at each end of the hole (actually cut it a touch long and 
banged it into place, then nailed it in).  Hung the shop fixtures, ran 
ROMEX from the fixtures into the adjoining room, and did my wiring in 
there.  The holes were framed with the stuff they use to frame ceiling 
panels - hard to do a perfect job - the ceilingboard was uneven, so 
the trim wasn't totally flush.  Then cut plastic baffle sheets to fit 
the holes (used the special knife they recommended - was worth all 
$2.99 it cost).  (I'm risking solid baffles because the space between
the joists vents into the adjoining room). 

Final result was quite satisfying.  thanx to all for the advice. 

RE: .7	"Cheapo" lights for $10.00

	I made the mistake of buying a set of those "$10.00" lights
for my basement workshop.  The lights were made by Lights of America.

To make a long story short, out of 3 lights, 2 were defective, and
1 failed a week later.  All of the lights shorted out, one with a
"spark show".  I returned all 3 lights, and spent a few $ more for
a better quality shop light...

On the other hand...


The 'shop' lights I bought at Channel for $10.49 (also avail at 
slumberville and spags) have gone a month w/out infant mortality

    I have a few of those cheapo's in operation now that have been 
    up for two years so not all of them are that bad.
    
    -j
    

    I had those "cheapo" Lights-of-America lights for ONE day myself (got
    them at Grossman's). I plugged them in and they worked, but there was
    an annoying buzz from them. Next day I packed them up and took the back
    for a full refund and then took my money to Spag's and bought their
    "cheapo" lights for the same money. The only difference is that they
    work and are quiet! 

    Charly    

Differences between Grossman's lights and the Spag's ones:

o	Transformer is much larger in the Spag's version

o	Connections are soldered in the Spags's lights, vs simple crimped
	wire connections in the Grossman's versions

o	As mentioned in .16, quieter

    Bradlees has these shoplights on sale this week for $9.79 and then
    there's a $2 rebate on top of that.  These lights are all metal
    and include 2 40 watt bulbs.  They are normally priced $17.99. 
    I have several of them hanging in my basement.  They do not hum,
    provide good light and are very easy to put up.  For the money,
    they can't be beat!
    
    Phil   (No relation to Mrs. B)