Conference 7.286::home_work

There's already a discussion (a short one) at note 279, which would have been 
hard to find since it's under LANDSCAPING instead of LAWNS.  LANDSCAPING is 
another keyword that needs some work, maybe one of these days I'll fix it up.

Paul

    I don't have any direct experience in this area, but I have a friend
    in Nashua who is having a sprinkler system installed all around
    the house (front, back, and side yards).  21 sprinkler heads in
    all.  I think she is paying around $1200 to have it installed.
    Sorry, but I don't know who the installer is. 

    This is a real good DIY job. I installed mine this spring myself.
    The total job took 2 weekends to complete.
    My set up is six station(valves) on a timer. The total cost was
    $295.34 for parts and my labor. 
    One consideration is the number of trees in your yard. The roots
    can make digging slow and hard. If you have many you may want to
    contract someone to dig the ditches for you with a ditchwitch.
    
    When planning try to avoid placing any head more than 4-6" lower
    than the other heads on the same circuit. What happens in this case
    is the one low head acts like a drain for the plumbing and the grass
    grows wild there and normal everywhere else(not really a problem
    but it looks funny).
    To avoid a gotcha later check the system for leaks before filling
    in the trenches by capping the risers and turning on the water.
    
    You will also want to draw a detailed map of your lot showing where
    the pipes are buried. This will save lots of headaches(voice of
    experience) for both you and the next owner. Note most installers
    dont do this for you since they wont be the one that has to dig
    50 holes to find one pipe once it leaks(and It WILL develop a leak
    sooner or later).
                                                              
    
    -jerry
    

Not ready for a sprinkler system yet - but am worried about the amount 
of water needed for sprinkle

any idea on how much water a typical garden sprinkler draws - 
(or is it ' whats the maximum gal./min my hose faucet can deliver?)

    Go with american standard PVC pipe and fitting.  We started with
    the foreign made stuff and discoverd that the fitting do not sit
    well and within days you get a leak especilly on areas someone walks
    over.  There is a marking on each pipe and fitting so look for it.
    
    Also get schedule 40 or better.  We made the pipe (riser) comming
    from the feed with screw on connectors so that when someone (like
    my husband) ran over the thing with a lawn mower!  All I did was unscrew
    the pipe install pipe tape.  Ease it down the hole and screw it
    in.  Them run the water to get any mud out before putting the sprinkler
    head back on.
    
    Also be sure to install it before any pressure regulators going
    to the house.  the pressure will be better.  
    
    

    Two questions:
    1. Has anyone had one for a couple of years? If so, how do they hold
    up over winter? (presuming you live where it freezes). How do they
    hold up in general?
    2. Do you connect to your outside faucet or thru the foundation
    and into the plumbing in the basement? Is the later an easy DIY?

    John

    	Just finished the second sysem in my front yard. The first 
    system worked just fine but they dont stand up to back loaders
    to well. Use the semi flexible ABS pipe but dont use the saddle
    type connections for the sprinkler heads. The saddle type clamp on
    with two screws and you make a hole in the pipe with a special 
    tool but unless the pipe is perfectly round there is a tendency
    to leak. Your better off cutting the pipe and putting in a normal
    Tee connection. You do want to put a drain in at the lowest point
    in every circuit. These close up under water pressure but open
    under very low pressure and drain the lines out. Without these
    plus a drain on any other outside pipes the system wont make it
    through even one winter. If drained properly winter maintenance
    is minimul. I had to run a 3/4" line from the basement as the 
    existing line was only 1/2" and would neccesitate lots of little
    circuits. Also local ( CXO ) had changed so I had to buy a thing
    called a vacuum break valve ( $80 ). I guess without one of these
    and under certain conditions you could poisen everyone on your
    block so I thought it was a good idea to get one.
    
    						Danny
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Have put in two systems this year using toro heads and also installed
    1 hp pump and 80 gal holding tank to get pressure I needed even
    though on town water have low pressure. 
    
    Comments tricks; Love toro heads am able to run up to seven on a
    zone and use on large zone 1.3 gpm heads and on smaller zones 2.5
    gpm heads.
    
    do not have heads spray on house siding not designed for having
    water fall from bottom.                        
                                                   
    I had the water center in Bedford come out to nashua and pull the
    pipe 900' machine they use slices turf and pulls pipe under lawn
    with minimum damage. My soil very rocky but it worked fine. 
                                                   
    Also found Toro timers very $$$$ water center was able to fine me
    a rainbird digital 6 zone two program for $119.

I put my system in about 5 years ago - it's 3 zones, 9 heads.

1. You MUST bring the water line out from the largest diameter pipe in the
house. Most houses have a 3/4" line coming out of the meter - that's where
it goes. If you can do sweat soldering on copper pipes, you can do this.

2. You want the supply plumbing to look like:

                     ----------------------------
                        Main water feed line to house
                     ----------    --------------
                              |    | 
                              |    |  T-connector
                              |----|  
                              | V  | Shutoff valve
                              |----|
                              |    -----  -------
                              | BD   Boiler Drain (Fitting
                              |      to hook compressor up with
                              |    | valve to shut off fitting)
                              |    |

3. Then run pipe - either PVC well pipe or whatever - to your "manifold"
- where the zone control valves are. This is usually outdoors, kind of
centrally located to where your zones will be. Sometimes it will be easier
to run the supply line pipe around the house and tap it off for each zone,
placing a zone valve at each tap - depends on how many zones you need.

 Put a drain valve at the end of the manifold - you leave this valve OPEN
all winter. I also leave the Boiler Drain open. The goal is to ensure that
all the zone valves STAY DRAINED so they don't get damaged. Even after being
blown out, small amounts of water will remain in the lines; rain may add
more, etc. 

As mentioned earlier, PLAN on blowing out the system in the fall with a
compressor.

4. I started with "Rise N Rain" pop-ups - which are large-circle 3.5 gallon
heads. I later had a lot of landscaping doen, and, wherever I had a head
and now have a bed for shrubbery, I put in a piece of copper pipe and a
standard brass sprinkler head sticking up out of the ground. Since they're
in the bed, they aren't in the way - and they work better (a little higher
off the ground) and don't need cleaning every spring (you must clear the
grass and crud out of pop ups. The pop-ups have worked fine for me as along
as I keep them clean.

These systems are hypnotic - get out on your deck on a hot summer morning
and watch your lawn water itself....


Dennis

5. DO NOT use normal rigid PVC pipe where it gets exposed to sunlight!!!

    
    Information wanted please!
    
    Can anyone recommend a source of information on in-ground water
    sprinkling systems please? It would be useful to know approximate
    costs per unit area, and opinions as to it's value.
    
    ADVthanksANCE!
    
    Geri.
     
                 

    The cost depends on how your system is designed and who does the
    work.  I water 25000 sq ft with my system and love it.  Electronic
    timer and the works.  I bought all the parts and did the installation
    myself.  The cost of parts was about $1000.  I had an estimate done
    for the same lawn and the estimate was about $2600.  I entered a
    detailed note in the lawn sprinkler note (left as an execise for
    the requestor).  I went to Somerville lumber and they designed the
    system for free.  I bought all the equipment from Somerville Lumber.
    The only comment I have is DON'T use any of the Lawn Genie equipment
    sold by SL.  I had to replace every sprinkler head and the timer
    the first season.  The stuff is sh*t!  Use Toro or some other reputable
    supplier.  I have used Toro heads and timer for the last 2 seasons and
    they have performed perfectly.  Talk to the owner of Pelham Hardware
    if you are in the area (just up the road (38) from SL in Pelham).  He 
    gave me a deal that made Toro heads as cheap as the Lawn Genie ones 
    when I told him I wanted 21 (35' diameter) heads.  I went back when 
    I needed a new timer (It died at the end of the year so I went back 
    in Jan. - best time) and he gave me a real good deal on that.
    
    If you want installation information, just go to a place that carries
    the equipment and they will have a DIY pamphlet.
    
    Stan

    
    	You should have watched THIS OLD HOUSE yesterday.  They talked
    	about installing one in Santa Barbara.
    
    	Its usually on in reruns a couple of times a week
    
    
    	good luck
    
    	tom
    

Had you looked at 1111.51 (Lawns) you'd have found notes 1359 and 1393, which 
are on this exact subject.

Paul

    Haven't referenced a system for a while, but one point to remember
    is that many of the high output sprinkler heads (ie I had some that
    pumped out 4.5 gal/min!) need a lot of flow. When installing the
    feed from the house, don't try to run it off a 1/2 inch pipe spigot
    connection. The best way to connect the feed is to T off the main
    line and run the same pipe size (3/4" or 1") to your distribution
    manifolds. And use GATE VALVES rather than the normal kind found
    in the house (I don't remember their proper name), because the gate
    valves have almost no restriction to flow. That way, you'll have
    full flow pressure at your system.
    
    Eric
        

    I believe you mean ball valves.  They are a sphere with a hole so
    that when closed the hole is perpendicular to the flow thus stopping
    the flow.
    
    When open the hole is aligned with the flow and since it is the
    same size as the feed, there is no restriction.
    
    If I remember, they were about $6 to $8 apiece as opposed to the
    ordinary gate valve $2 to $3.  However, not only do they work better
    but after a while the gate valves begin to leak around the stem
    seal and you wind up having to replace them.  They also take a 'set'.
    If they are closed for a year they don't like to be opened and vice
    versa.  Ball valves will not complain when you have to shut off
    a portion of the plumbing and the valve has been open for the last
    6 years.  With a cheap gate valve you'll be lucky if you can shut
    the circuit down.
    
    Moral ??  Go with the quality valve in the first place.  As I get
    to work on pieces of the plumbing those gate valves are GONZO!

    re: .5
    I think you mean "globe" instead of "gate" valve in your discussion.
    Seems as though this was discussed recently in here someplace, but
    to reiterate:
    
    Ball valves are as you state; 1/2 turn to open or close.
    
    A gate valve has a vertical sliding wedge arrangement that fits
    into a tapered seat; it works sort of like a vertical-lifting door
    in the water flow path.  Like the ball valve, it allows pretty much
    unrestricted flow when fully open, but it takes more turns of the
    handle.  
    
    A globe valve is the cheap kind with a flat seat, closed by a flat
    rubber washer on the end of the valve handle.  The water path is
    somewhat restricted even when the valve is fully opened.

    Opps - that should be 1/4 turn to open or close a ball valve....
    

    Whatever it's called the one with the washer is the one I meant.
    I think you're correct in terminology.
    
    It's the washer that takes a set.  Also the packing around the stem.
    Ever shut one off that's been open for a while.  Almost gauranteed
    to leak when you shut it off again.
    
    I remember this discussion a while back too.  Don't know where though.
    I can see the next reply from P... "Well if you'd looked in 1111..."
    
    That's not a slam Paul.  This is a super notes file thanks mostly
    to you and we all apprecite it.  I'm just too lazy to look at the
    moment.  Back to read only mode.

     
    The True Value sells a complete inground sprinkler kit in a box.
    I'm not sure of the price. It includes instructions.
    
    Mike

    Does anyone know of a source for shrub drip-watering systems?
    By this I mean the 100'-250' spool of feeder hosing, the t-connectors
    and the drip lines that can be run to each shrub in a given area.
    
    ???
    
    Mark

    You may want to check PICA::GARDEN if you don't get many suggestions
    here.

                I believe that I have such stuff at Russell's on Route
        20 in Wayland.
                
                /s/     Bob

    Rain Bird makes such a system. I  used one last year and found them
    to be very good for containers but a tad inadequate for my open
    garden. BTW-I used the type with the emitters -vs-the leakey hose
    type which might work better for open garden spaces or raised beds.
    
    -j
    

    Does anyone know where Rain-Bird is sold in the Fitchburg/Littleton
    area?
    
    Mark
    

      Did a DIR/TIT=Sprink, couldn't find any word on this, so I just
    figured I would share it with those that may have had the same problem
    I had... really more of an "inconvenience" that a 'problem'... but
    here goes :
    
     Not sure about the rest of you, but watering my lawn lately has
    been a chore... I kept having to move the sprinkler from spot to
    spot, was watering much of my house itself (ugh) as well as the driveway
    and road etc.. lots of 'wasted' water...  I always wondered if there
    was a type of sprinkler that would allow you to "program" the distance
    it sprayed (not just your typical, set it up and it sprays the
    same distance all the way around etc..), what I hoped for was something
    that I could adjust (real hard to explain I guess) that would not
    only allow the direction (pretty much the norm) changes, but the
    distance the water sprayed itself... for example :
    
     As it goes around (either 1/4, 1/2 etc, etc)... I could set it
    up to 'shoot' say 16' feet in one spot but then resume to the
    max distance in another and so on...
    
     I finally found one!  I picked it up yesterday, so can't comment
    on more than my initial use... I like it so far... I can place it
    in one spot, "program" the thing so that depending on the areas...
    it will shoot farther in some and closer in on others, thus eliminating
    my driveway being watered, house, etc... just the lawn gets the
    water... really was nice setting it up yesterday and not having
    to move it every hour or so... this way here once programmed it
    just keeps following the same pattern.
    
     It was quite easy to "program" (thats the word the instructions
    use... really is an elementary, but yet 'smart' design).. only took
    a minute or so... so even if you wish to place it in your backyard
    or another spot (depending on yard size), you could re-program without
    much effort.
    
     basically the thing will shoot a max of 43' (according to the
    instructions and depending on hose size etc..) and a minimum of
    16' (less of course if you decrease water).
    
     Just wanted to let all you folks out there know who may feel the
    same way I felt... moving the sprinkler all the time etc... this
    sure does make watering alot easier and more efficient (in my opinion).
    
     The thing is called a "Pattern Master"... I can't recall the brand
    name though... Cost was : $18.00.
 
      Sorry for a wordy description, but it is a bit tough to explan
    in notes.  Hope this is the right place to put this.
    
     Oh well, won't be much longer and we'll get snow.                                 
                
                                                 Perry F.
                                                ----------
    
    P.S. Mod, please delete if this is an incorrect spot for this type
    of "info. sharing".
    

After fooling with theoriginal owner installed system (illegal by
today's code), I had a new system installed, 6 stations with 25
sprinklers. Couple of things learned:

	Never be too conservative with the covered areas. You
will get burn spots from lack of coverage especially if the wind
pattern changes.

	Install heads from T's from the main line, using a 12"
stub of flexible pipe. The replacement of the heads are a whole
lot easier then tryong to remove the broken thread pipe from the
main line.

	Use TORO valves; they have a delayed shut-off, they donot
bang the pipes when they shut off.

cal 

    I am looking into these systems now too. I've read the associated notes
    but haven't seen a clear answer to some of the following questions;
    
>>>          <<< Note 1393.12 by CLOSUS::HOE "Sammy's a toddler now." >>>
>>>                       -< experience is better then dyi >-

>>>After fooling with theoriginal owner installed system (illegal by
>>>today's code),
    
	Can you explain further? Is it illegal in all states? Are you 
    refering to the need to have a licensed plumber install an anti-siphon
    device? I can't think of any reason why I wouldn't be allowed to at
    least install the pipes and heads in the ground. Then have a plumber
    do the final hook-up to the supply.
    
    	Can anyone give opinions on the pros/cons of using rigid PVC piping
    vs. the flexible black hose type for the inground runs?
    
    	(This one may be better in the calculations note...) I have a 
    1.5 hp pump in my well. The well is 250 ft deep, water column starts
    at 225 ft. They stopped measuring the recovery rate at 42 gallons a
    minute (I figure we hit one of the water mains from the Quabbin
    Reservoir). The pipe from the well is the standard 1" black plastic. 
    Pressure tank is 8 gallon (I think) with 35/65 psi on/off. Can anyone
    tell me how to calculate the # of gallons/minute I can use in one
    circuit of the sprinkler system? The contractor didn't leave me any 
    specs on the pump, etc. The pump guy hasn't called me back yet.
    
    	Thanks in advance.
    
    						Mark
    

I just finished installing a sprinkler system in my yard about a month ago.
In my lengthy description, I'll go through the steps you need to follow along
with some of my impressions.  Some of this information appears in previous
notes as well.

I have a little over 5000 sq. ft. of grass, and my system required 6 zones.
I also added a seventh zone for my garden.  I had a couple of estimates from
professionals, and I'd guess that I saved about $400-$500 by doing it
myself.  Of course, the professionals claimed they could finish it in one
(maybe two) days, and it took me about 8-10 days.  I used about 900 feet of
1 inch flexible poly pipe (80#) for underground, 35 feet of 3/4 inch copper
in my basement, and I-don't-know-how-many assorted fittings.  I have 8 Hunter
Professional Series, gear driven heads (range 15'-50') and 40 Lawn Genie
3 inch pop-up heads.  Also, I used a Lawn Genie 9-zone electric timer and
7 Lawn Genie in-line valves.  Other major items include a pressure reducing
valve and backflow prevention valve (some areas may require this by law).

(An earlier noter cautioned against Lawn Genie.  I picked it because my
neighbor happens to be a LG salesman, and I got a great deal on everything.
Several people in our neighborhood have LG supplies, and I haven't heard
any complaints.)

First, you need to determine your service line size, water pressure, water
meter size, and available flow.  Most service lines in new houses today are 3/4"
copper, I believe.  It's easy enough to measure.  Wrap a string around the pipe
then measure the length of string required to encircle the pipe.  For copper, a
2-3/4" length of string means 3/4" pipe; 3-1/2" string means 1" pipe. As for the
water pressure, you can either call the water company, and they might be able to
tell you; or buy/rent/borrow a water pressure gauge, hook it up to your spigot
and you'll get a pretty accurate reading.  Most water meter sizes are 5/8",
3/4" or 1" and can often be found stamped right on the meter.  If not, call the
water company.  Finally, the flow (in gallons per minute) is based on the
water meter size, service line size, and water pressure.  I used the following
chart:

     water   service   water pressure (PSI)
     meter   line       30    35    40    45    50    55    60    65
     size    size      gallons per minute (GPM)
     -----   -------   ---------------------------------------------
     5/8     1/2       2.0   3.5   5.0   6.0   6.5   7.0   7.5   8.0
     5/8     3/4       3.5   5.0   7.0   8.5   9.5  10.0  11.0  11.5
     3/4     3/4       6.0   7.5   9.0  10.0  12.0  13.0  14.0  15.0 
     3/4     1         7.5  10.0  11.5  13.5  15.0  16.0  17.5  18.5
     1       3/4       6.0   7.5   9.0  10.0  12.0  13.0  14.0  15.0 
     1       1        10.0  12.0  13.5  17.0  19.5  22.0  23.5  25.0

For example, my water meter size is 3/4", service line is 3/4", and water
pressure is 80 PSI.  Extrapolating the chart a little, I used 18 GPM.  Since
sprinkler heads are rated in terms of GPM, this number tells you how many
heads your water supply can support.  That's why we need "zones."  Each of
your zones cannot go over your GPM capacity, and you can only have one zone
on at a time.

The next thing to do is to plan your layout.  This means drawing out a nice
scaled map of your property with all appropriate trees, landscaping, and
sidewalks/driveways.  Next, you need to draw in the sprinkler system layout.
It's a little difficult to explain this in a few sentences.  Go to a nice
plumbing supply store and get a brochure (most major suppliers of sprinkler
equipment have free planning guides, including Lawn Genie, Toro, and Hunter).
You might also consider to have someone do an estimate for you.  Estimates are
often free and may include the layout of your system.  Another method is to
take your property map to a plumbing supply store or home store and have them
design a sprinkler system for you.  They may offer this service for free.
What I did was draw my own layout, got two free estimates (including the
sprinkler layout), and also had one prepared for me by a plumbing supply
store.  I put all these together and came up with what I thought was the 
"best" layout and sprinkler head selection.

I tapped into my service line next and did all the indoor plumbing work.  My
layout was as follows:

     before:

          ==============*=====&================== to house

     after:

          ==============*=====&=====|=====*====== to house
                                    |=S===D====== to sprinkler system

     * - pressure reducing valve
     & - water meter
     S - shutoff valve
     D - drain

I opened up the existing pressure reducing valve all the way to supply as
much pressure as possible to the sprinkler system.  The second pressure
reducing valve (that I installed) is used to tame down the pressure to the
house supply (and avoid banging pipes).  The pipe goes outdoors and is about
4 feet above the ground.  Where it comes out of the house, I had to have
a backflow prevention valve (required by the city) to prevent poisoning my
(or anyone else's) drinking water supply.

From the backflow prevention valve, you have to go underground to your valves
that control your zones using a piece of PVC pipe.  The collection of valves
is called a manifold.  I have my valves hooked together with 4" sections of
PVC connectors to simplify replacement, if necessary.  Pictorially,

     from        | outside
     house       |
     ============|===[ ]
                 |    |
                 |    |
                 |    |
                 |    |
                 |    |
                 |    |
     -----------------|--------------- ground
                      |
                     { }=========== to sprinkler heads

     [ ] - backflow prevention valve
     { } - valve (manifold)

Now, my manifold looks like this:

                   | from backflow prevention valve
                   |
     --------------|-------------- ground
                   |
     @--#--#--#--#---#--#--#

     @ - drain
     # - valve

Now comes the fun part, digging the trenches.  There are a couple of machines
you can rent to make this easier.  A regular trencher will dig a nice looking
trench for your flexible poly, or you can rent a "pipe puller."  I'm not sure
that's what it's called, but it doesn't really dig a trench.  It cuts through
the ground and "vibrates" enough so that the pipe can be pulled down into the
ground.  I've never seen one operate, but I don't believe there is any back
filling necessary.  Of course, you could use my method - shovel and muscle.

I dug my trenches one zone at a time.  I'd dig a zone, lay the pipe, put on
the risers (used to bring the sprinkler heads to ground level) and drains,
hook up to the valve, turn on the water to blow out any junk in the pipe,
check for leaks, put on the heads, turn on the water and check everything
again, then backfill.  This seemed to work well for me.  It was recommended
to me to put in at least 1 drain per zone, at the lowest point.  I usually
put in 2.  Just keep in mind that it takes so much water pressure to close
the drain - in my case 10 PSI for each drain - so don't use too many.  Another
hint for the drain: enclose the drain in something to keep dirt out.  In my
case, I "feathered" back the top of a soda can, filled it with pea gravel,
punched holes in the can, inserted the drain into the can, and then buried
the can in larger pea gravel in the deep (2 feet) drain hole.

Also, in contrast to an earlier noter, I used saddles for my sprinkler heads
and drains without any trouble.  One saddle takes the place of a "T" connector
and two clamps.  The saddle secures around the piping with two screws.  Then,
using a saddle tool, you bore a hole in the piping.  Next, screw a riser into
the saddle and attach the sprinkler head.

A couple of hints: use 1" flexible poly pipe (80#) for the sprinkler zone
runs.  This pipe is easier to work with than PVC and will hold up better in
changing temperatures (contracts and expands better).  Lay the pipe on a hot
sunny day.  You usually buy it in 100' rolls and you can lay it out in the
sun and let it become warm and pliable.  This makes things a whole lot easier.

Don't try to run pipe under cement patios or driveways.  It's usually a lot
simpler to either go around or approach the area from the opposite direction.
It's cheaper to avoid a driveway with some extra pipe than go under and risk
a problem later.  A 100' role of 1" flexible poly cost me $9 on sale.

Consider wind conditions in your area.  You may want to opt for a few more
short range heads than a a small number of long range heads.  The long
range heads will be affected more by wind, perhaps resulting in dry spots.

Avoid too many 90 degree turns in your layout.  This creates friction and
reduces water pressure.  Too many turns might mean lack of sufficient
pressure to drive the farthest head.

I have a system that was professionally (expensively) installed a few 
years ago.  Recently one of the heads didn't retract and tested the brakes
of my JD 210.  The brakes were not good enough!  Does anyone know where I 
can buy a new sprinkler head.  These are Hunter Professional Series.  I 
have not found the Hunters in any of the Home Stores.  Any leads?

    
    there is a place called LARCHMONT SYSTEMS OF IRRIGATION where they sell
    Hunter's parts to contracters and home owners.
    the number is (617) 862-2550
    address:\
    	11 Larchmont Lane
    	Lexington, Mass
    
    good luck
    

    Thanks for the leads.  I forgot to mention I am located in Connecticut.
    Builders Square is building an outlet nearby but has not opened
    yet.  I will contact Larchmont as they may deal by mail.  I may
    be able to contact the installer of my system but I am sure they
    will want to replace the unit themselves at big $s.
    
    Frank
    

    I guess this is a good place to put this.  At the DEC plant in MRO,
    they use those pulse sprinklers that have an inlet AND an outlet.  They
    put some in series and run them off the same line.  Well, I saw some of
    these on sale and thought "gee, I have a lot of pressure and a lot of
    volume, I think I'll try it."  I bought 4 of them, hooked them all up
    to try it last night off of one faucet.  It worked great!!  All four
    sprayed about 30'.  It looked like I could even run 1 or 2 more.  I
    didn't even have to reduce the hose width for the last ones.  All my
    hoses were 50'x5/8", except for the 1st one off the faucet that was
    75'x5/8".  This is going to save me plenty of time.  All I need now is
    more hose so I can start the 1st one farther away from the house to
    reach the "lower forty".  Anyone want to sell any hose??
    
    Chris D.

    I want to blow out my sprinklers myself towards the end of this month,
    instead of paying someone to do it, as I have in past years.
    
    Can anyone who has done it (no theorists, please) tell me whether I
    have to rent anything special in the way of an air compressor? It will
    be no problem getting one that generates sufficient pressure, my water
    regulator is set at 60 psi. But I wonder whether the average rental
    compressor will move enough volume to pressurize the system and bring
    the heads up?
    
    If I can rent a compressor that will do the job, all I'll need is a
    fitting to convert the air hose fitting to the pipe fitting of the
    blow-out port on the manifold.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Richard
 

    I do it every year.  I rent a compressor that will hit 100 psi.  The
    only thing is volume of air.  The one I get looks fairly heavy duty.  I
    get the same one each year.  I don't know that.  Go to a place that
    rents them and that would know and ask questions.
    
    Stan

    Thanks. Several folks have contacted me by mail and personally, and the
    basic answer to my question is: relax, the tank acts as a reservoir
    and makes up for any lack of volume in the compressor proper.
    
    It seems the bigger the tank the better it will blow out a circuit
    before needing to run and re-pressurize the tank. Most rental places
    anticipate this sort of thing this time of year, just call them up and
    tell them what you want it for, they'll usually even have the fitting
    you need.
    
    And finally, one of the guys who lives in the same part of town got in
    touch and we'll go in on the rental together, have a blow-out fest and
    save some money. What a conference!
    
    Richard
    

    I've been a home owner with sprinklers for 15 years and have never
    heard of "blowing out" a sprinkler system.  We have city plumbing
    (ie. no septic tank, well, etc.) is that why I've never had to deal
    with this issue?  Are you trying to remove debris of some sort?
    
    Please, enlighten me.
    
    Jodi-
    
    
    

Your personal_name tells why you don't know what they're up to.  We in
the Arctic wastelands have to withstand a phenomenom called "freezing".
Freezing does nasty things to water-filled pipes, namely it bursts them.
If the water is forced out of the pipes with air, they won't burst.

-Mike

    Oh, I see.  Thanks.
    
    Jodi-from sunny (and very dry) southern California

    Just invite mee out, I have twice brought rain relief to Southern Cal.
    
    :-)
    
    ed

           I was looking for a "mist" type of sprinkler for a garden.  It
           has a bunch of poles sticking out of the ground, connected by
           a series of tubes, and the tops of the poles would provide a
           constant "mist".  Our neighbor had one, but moved away (forgot
           where she got it).  I've tried various types of sprinklers
           (ie- oscillating, pattern) in our 10' X 30' garden, but none
           seem to water very well.  This "mist" type seemed to work
           well.  Any clues as to where one might purchase something like
           this?  Or, any other ideas would be appreciated.
           
           Steve

    I just built a misting system for my little greenhouse. I used 1/2"
    CPVC tubing.
    
    The size of the holes is key. I'd originally used a 1/16" inch bit, but
    the resultant stream was FAR too big. Too much water was let out to 
    allow the entire system to work. So I replaced those tubes (hey, at
    less 15 cents a foot I can experiment...) and used a dry-wall screw as
    a drill bit. Cut the head off, and insert the stub into the drill so
    that it will *just* penetrate the inside wall of the tubing, with the
    drill chuck acting as a stop. MUCH better.
    
    Depending on your application, you may want a bigger outlet hole, but
    this worked well for me.
    
    Edd

>   I just built a misting system for my little greenhouse. I used 1/2"
>   CPVC tubing.
    

           Sorry for my ignorance, but what's CPVC tubing?  (where do you
           get it?)  And, how were connections made to garden hose, etc.
           
           Steve

    CPVC (mumblemumble polyvinyl chloride) is a plastic pipe readily
    available a home centers. Although fairly rigid, the 1/2" stuff 
    was flexible enough for my purpose.
    
    Connections to other CPVC fittings are made by glueing. Very easy.
    You cut the stuff with a hacksaw. About 3 strokes get you thru.
    
    To connect the system to my garden house, I used a "hose to iron pipe"
    adaptor. (Basically the female hose fitting). I then used compression
    fittings to attach the hose fitting to a valve, and another couple of
    compression fittings to connect to the misting system.
    
    I'm still tweaking the system. Yesterday I cut apart a spray bottle and
    attached the sprayer to the misting system to give me a bit more
    control over the spray pattern....
    
    Edd

CPVC is the plastic pipe used for domestic hot/cold water piping.

			Steve

    It's *one* type of plastic pipe.
    
    There's also some other stuff that is much more flexible. Probably a
    couple other types also...
    
    The CPVC I'm familiar with is white. The flexible stuff is grey,
    has thicker walls for a given diameter, and doesn't work well with
    glue...
    
    Edd

The flexible gray stuff is polybutylene.

-Mike

    ..and the first "c" stands for chlorinated.  Larger pipes are usually
    just PVC.  (CPVC can handle somewhat higher temperatures making it 
    somewhat suitable for water supply pipes - I would want to use it for
    significant runs, though).
    
    Rich

It's been a long time since anyone added to this note. Any comments from those
who installed these systems 2-3 years ago? Anyone else have anything to add.
I'll be installing a system sometime in the next month and was just wondering
if there was any new information.

Also, pointers to recommended suppliers would be appreciated. Right now my plan
would be to get the necessary parts via the Somerville Lumber/Home Depot/HQ
route.

							Thanks,
								Mark

I wrote note .9 back in 1987 which I notice was (at some point) deleted.  
I suspect that was because of some severely negative comments I had about 
the brand of equipment then carried by Somerville Lumber.  My recommendation
is to go to SL for the generic stuff (plastic pipe, etc.) and make sure
you get the Toro heads and control box (ummmm you may notice SL may not
carry Toro).  SL will design your system which I found to be a great help.
You will have to measure your water pressure with a gauge they lend you 
and then the guy can design the system for the proper flow levels.  If you
have a well (and not an unlimited supply of town water) a system may have
some drawbacks.

My system has been operational since 1987.  I works nearly perfectly (I 
notice one head has stopped rotating (out of 21) I haven't pulled it to
check it out yet.)  I have had no problems since the initial problems 
with the original equipment.  (OK Mods:  Did I meet DEC standards?)

I don't use the system as much as I used to since the price of water in 
my town has more than quadrupled since '87.

It sure beats dragging around 250' of hose.  I have a half acre of grass
under cultivation.

Stan

Somerville Lumber carried Toro last time I noticed.

		Steve

I guess they wised up.  Lots of dissatisfied customers can't be wrong.  I 
haven't bought any lawn sprinkler equipment in over 5 years so I wasn't
sure if they changed their brand.

Stan

    
    How about a ballpark estimate on puting in one of these systems.  I
    have a 3/4 acre lot with plenty of water pressure.  If I installed it
    myself, bought generic piping and toro heads, what would be an estimate
    of doing this?  I'm just looking for a ballpark figure, since I have no
    idea of it cost $10's, $100's, $1000's etc!!
    
    Chris D.

Re: .31

A recent example (last year) in Colorado Springs:

2000 square foot, roughly rectangular lawn.
Water source was 1 1/2 HP irrigation pump and shallow (8 foot) well.
4 pop-up impulse sprinklers (Rainbird)
6 pop-up spray heads (Rainbird)
7 zone Rainbird controller (only using 2 zones now)
300 feet 3/4" PVC piping & fittings

The total was about $500, excluding the cost of the pump, including $30 for
a pump control relay.  I got a 7 zone controller because this was just the
first phase of the sprinkler system; I spent about $72 on the controller.  I
used PVC pipe because I didn't *ever* want to fix a break; this part was
overkill.  The PVC pipe alone was about $90, polybutylene would be much
cheaper and easier to install.  The pop-up impluse heads were $14 each, but
that meant less trench digging so it was worth it to me.  I used 4" pop-up
spray heads, which were more expensive, but now they still get above the
grass when I can't mow often enough.  I needed them to fill in the few
irregular areas around the edge of the rectangle.  I guess I could have done
it for $400 by using a smaller, dumber controller and polybutylene pipes.
Skip the controller and use manual valves to save even more money, but then
you're defeating the major convenience of a sprinkler system.

This doesn't count labor.  I dug all the trenches by hand, laid all the
pipe, etc.  I designed the system myself; it's quite straightforward given
the pamphlets all the sprinkler companies give away.  Just take your time,
and remember "head-to-head coverage".

I'm told that to have a contractor install a comparable system in this town
would be about $1500.

I'm glad I did it.  This summer I hope to put in the zones for the front
lawn. ;-)

I bought a house with one but without any manual.  If so I would
like to copy it.  Otherwise I will have TORO send me one.

							Larry

Does anyone have a system on a pump/well? I do. We have plenty of water for
recovery (43 GPM, exceeds by a long shot what the supply line could deliver).

All the "how-to" books I have say "If you have a pressure tank, contact your
{Toro, Lawn Genie, etc} dealer for advice and assistance" in order to 
calculate the static water pressure.

I'm going to do that but I thought I'd ask here too.

Also, does anyone know what the current MA. regulations are as to what
a homeowner can install and what a licensed plumber must do? I assume
the plumber is needed to hook-up to the supply and do the anti-siphon
work. I would fail to see why I couldn't do the in-ground work. But...
then again, this is Massachusetts.

							Thanks,

								Mark

    
    
    ......in Mass., your not even supposed to change a washer
    	  without calling a plumber........
    
    But i'm sure if in said condition in another state, the 43GPM
    rate shouldnt be any problem unless your feeding Boston! :)
    I'm sure there must be a chart in the  plumbing handbook about
    calculating static water pressures....
    
    JD

	I'm about to install an underground sprinkler system.  I've been
	thinking about using Orbit heads.  Does anyone have any experience
	with this brand?  They're nice people to talk to, have a full line
	of heads (kinda like our product line...lots of overlapping products)
	a very good layout manual, and will send youa free video that covers
	design and installation.
						-- Geoff

    I am planning my new DIY sprinkler system and have collected several
    brochures and some neighborly advice.  There seems to be some
    disagreement over the size of the pipe needed to deliver a certain
    number of Gallons per Minute of water at a certain pressure.
    
    Here is the example:
    
    I have 50 Lb PSI at the faucet outside my house.
    The water line coming out of the meter is 1"
    
    According to the charts I've seen, I can get 15 GPM of water flow with
    this combination.
    
    However, the Toro brochure goes on to say my maximum GPM delivered to
    the sprinklers is affected by the size of the sprinkler distribution 
    pipes and whether they are PVC or poly.  Their chart reads like this.
    
    Pipe Size		Max GPM
    		     PVC	Poly
    
       3/4"	      12	 6
        1"	      20	12		
    
    I would rather use 3/4" all around since it reduces the costs of
    anti-siphon, copper, valves, etc.  But if it reduces the flow by that
    much, then I increase the number zones.  6 GPM for 3/4" poly is only
    enough for two sprinklers. That's ridiculous. 
    
    Something doesn't sound right, can anybody shed some light.
                                                 

    Apparently, the inside diameters of the two types of pipe are
    significantly different even though their "nominal" size may
    be the same.  
    

    I installed underground irrigation two years ago (DIY).  A few
    observations...
    
    The difference in the GPM between poly and PVC is actually quite
    simple.  Couplings for PVC pipe go around the outside of the pipe and
    do not reduce the ID.  Poly uses barbed couplings which slide INTO
    the poly thus reducing the effective ID (by around 3/16 to 1/4")
    
    Use 1" poly for all underground pipe.  It is much cheaper and easier to
    install than PVC.  One can buy 300' spools of the stuff for ~40 bucks.  Use
    either 1" copper or 1" PVC Pressure pipe up to the zone valves. (Poly
    cannot handle the back pressure when a zone valve closes.) Note:
    You will need an anti-siphon/back-flow preventer on the feed to the
    zone valve manifold.  (That thing runs about $80.00)  I used 1" type L
    copper up to the anti-siphon valve and 1" PVC pressure pipe out to the
    zone valves/distribution manifold.
    
    It's a lot of work, but well worth it in the end!
    
    				- Peter

I also installed a sprinkler system two years ago.

Here in Colorado we can get unpredictable late or early freezes.  A number
of co-workers have related how they have to repair a burst poly pipe almost
every year.  My system is self-draining, and uses 1" PVC buried 12"
throughout.  I have had no problems whatsoever, and I'm running a zone at
about 12 GPM.

I agree that the PVC is harder to deal with than the poly, but the poly is
rated at 80 PSI and the PVC is rated at 400 PSI.  I decided to pay the extra
$$$ for a more robust system.

    With the 1" poly to the sprinkler heads, what number of heads
    are you running and about how many GPM do you think you're
    getting.  I'd like to build this thing right so I get good
    peformance, but I don't want to put in more zones than I
    have to.

    I have an underground sprinkler setup (TORO) is the brand.  I have had
    it for 6 years with no problem.  This year it is clear that several of the
    heads need replacing.
    
    I went to the hardware store, and I bought replacement heads (Super
    700, 1.5GPM), and put them in the ground, no problem whatsoever.
    
    
    The issue for me is adjusting these things to the proper arc.  The box
    says no tools, no hassle, which is similar to saying that the check is
    in the mail.
    
    I have had a good time, sprayed the house, got the car, the dog too,
    but still haven't been able to get these things settled down.
    
    
    If anyone out there has any experience, I would sure appreciate the
    help.
    
    
    Andy Kozak

    
    	Re: .42

    I am getting between 12-13 GPM per zone.  I used basically two types of
    heads:

    	3" pop-up units (@ ~ 2 gpm/ea) on the narrow lawn areas
    	4" pop-up rotating units (@ ~ 2.5 gpm/ea) for the large areas.

    	The small heads water about a 15' radius (all directions at one)
    	The motor driven units give about a 30-35' radius (they take a few
    	minutes to sweep through 360 degrees.)
                                                 
    Do not mix head types within the same zone.  The 3" pop-ups water an
    area much faster and need only run about 1/4 the time that the large 
    units need.  

    I found that I needed 5 zones to handle all the heads required.  I also
    trenched in 1200' of poly pipe before the lawn was put down.

    As for freezing, it would take quite a hard freeze to freeze water in
    the pipes (as they are 8"-10" or so deep.) When the nights start to
    get in the 30's on a semi-regular basis, I drain the manifold and
    blow out the lines (one zone at a time) with compressed air.  Not
    problems to date. 


    				- Peter

I'm planning in installing a feeder line to my garden using 7 sections of
schedule 40 (i think) pvc pipe. I have a questing regarding leakage of 
water from the joints. How well does this stuff hold up underground with the
standard joint glue? 

Thanks


/james

    
    Why not buy it in one length?
    
    I have close to 200' going out to our garden. It's about 3' down,
    attaches to a 1" galvanized riser which comes out of the ground
    about 18" to a "T", where I put 2 fawcetts.  Come fall time when
    we don't need it any longer, I blow the water out with compressed
    air.  You can get the PVC with a 200 psig rating.  I used a
    compression X 1"MPT adapter out by the garden. Personally, I didn't
    like the idea of a glue joint underground.
    
    Fred

A properly-done solvent (it's not glue) joint is stronger than the pipe
itself.  It's also easy to do it right.  I wouldn't worry about it.

				Steve

    I was wondering if anyone can recommend an installer of sprinkler
    systems in the greater Maynard area.  I had a sod lawn installed a few
    years ago and it died off.  The landscaper has offered to replace the
    lawn at no charge if I install a sprinkler system.  They gave me a
    quote a few years ago and it was very very high.  They also said that
    one was not necessary.  Now they are saying that one is.  

Hi guys,

I'm about to embark on the installation of a TORO sprinkler system that will
cover about 15000 sq of lawn and a drip zone to water shrubs & plants.

I've spent the last month doing some investigation, I've read every brochure
I could get my hands on, watched installation videos, and talked to contractors.
Its a lot less intimidating now than it was a couple of weeks ago. Actually,
it seems pretty simple now (but very labor intensive).

Here's my design I'd appreciate any final comments/opinions/advice from
anyone with experience can offer. 

My Well supplies water through a 3/4" copper line. I plan on tapping off that
into a 1" double check valve (for backflow prevention, because of the height
of some of the zones my options are limitted). From the check valve I'm using
1" PVC to pipe to the zone valves (there's 9 zones). I'm having about 1300 ft. 
of 1" poly pulled throughout the zones by a contractor with a pipe puller
(with my help). I'm planning on using the Toro 700 series heads with 1.5 GPM
nozzles with 4 heads per zone. To reduce friction losses caused by the barb
fitting I'm using saddle taps with "funny" pipe instead of barb fitting.
My controller will be a TORO Image-I with 12 zones and a rain sensor.

Some questions...

My static presure is about 60 LBS, my flow rate as measured by me using the
"fill an 5 gallon bucket an time it method" is 12.5 GPM. A contracter used
a gauge and measured about 8 GPM (and about 40lbs of running preasure). Aside
from the gauge being broken (or me not being able to time a minute :^), does
anyone  have any other explantions? I filler the bucket right at the drawoff
he connected the guage at the end of 50 ft. hose, another explanation?

I plan on using TORO 700 heads throughout. I've had 2 contractors tell me they
use TORO super 600s only. One said the 700s break alot. Anyone have any 
experience with this? They are the same price. The 700s have a lot more head
options and seem more versatle, thats why I initially chose them.

Lastly, I'm told that you can only buy TORO "home owner" line heads at retail
stores. They supposedly are not that good (per the contractors). The "good"
stuff can only be purchased at distributors. The distributor I am 
considering is the Sprinkler House in Bedford NH. They've been very helpful, 
they have spent time talking with me, given me catalogs, and price lists. 
The problem is they only discount off of list price for contractors,
the home owner gets charged full list price. I don't know of any retailer
that even sell TORO parts. Opinions? Facts? The total cost of parts for me
is about $2000, that includes the pipe pulling.

FWIW, to answer (sort of) an previous question. I looked at orbit parts too at
Home Depot, Everyone I've talked to has never  heard of them and had no opinion. 

Thanks for any and all comments...

-- Mark



 

    Mark -1.
    
    I have a Toro based system -2 zones with 7-9 heads each. The system
    is 7 years old and in yrs 2,3,4 & 5 I had to replace one super 600
    head. They simply stopped rotating; not plugged, just would not move.
    All-in-all, the system has been very reliable. My biggest problem is
    with the water output and the installer's (didn't do it myself) layout.
    I have several areas of lawn that don't get adequate water coverage. It
    seems as if the "stream rotor" style heads don't place a lot of water
    close to the head. As such, I have replace 2 of the Toros with Impulse
    style; 1 Rainbird and 1 Orbit (Home Depot).
    
    In ground is the only way to go !!!!! Just make sure you design in
    overlapping coverage, give yourself some excess head capacity for
    each zone (never know what you might need in the future) and add
    extra wherever you can. Larger Pot for valve expansion....etc.
    
    Make sure you take good pictures or draw a map for pipe location. I
    never did and was a real Pain last year...had to move a head...
    couldn't find the pipe .
    
    Good luck and Enjoy !!
    
    Marty

re. -.1

Marty,

Thanks for the reply. My heads are spaced 30 ft apart, so there is lots
of overlap. You say you have 7-9 heads per zone? You must have a high flow 
rate. How many GPM does your main line output? At what presure? Maybe your
not getting adequate coverage cause you have too many heads per zone? The 
lowest flow super 600 is about 1.3 GPM with 9 heads  you would need about 
12 GPM plus some reserve to compensate for friction loss and other uses.

-- Mark

    
    Anyone have recommendations for a lawn sprinkling system installer for
    the Southern NH area?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dennis
    

    
    When can/should a double-check type backflow prevention device be
    used instead of the anti-syphon type?  Should it be used when the 
    sprinkler system will be at a higher level than the water supply?
    
    My back yard has an area which is elevated a few feet from ground level
    by the house? 
    
    Thanks.
    
    John
    

Re. -.1

John,

Regarding Back Flow devices... Yes, you are correct a DCV is required over a
anti-siphon or Presure Vacuem breaker if any point in the system is at a 
higher elavation than the device. Also, be aware that you town building codes
may require a certain type of device especially if you have town water as opposed
to your own well. Check with the building inspectors office.  Even if you are
not required to use a DCV I'd suggest using one anyway over an anti-siphon just
to better protect yout drinking water supply.

Some of the contractors I've talked to will install a DCV wether you need/want
one or not just to protect themselves from any liability.

-- Mark

    Thanks Mark,
    
    So a DCV (double-check valve) provides the best protection against
    backflow?  If a town requires only an anti-syphon device, would a
    DCV exceed that requirement?
    
    I had a contractor give me a quote on a sprinkler system
    and he said he only uses the anti-syphon type.  He said it just
    had to come out of the ground 12 inches and that it didn't matter
    if the rest of the system went above that height.  From my
    understanding of gravity and syphoning, it didn't seem to make sense.
    
    Another question: is it standard operating procedure to put the
    DCV in the ground (valve box)?  My well/pump is in the basement, so
    should I put the DCV in the basement?
    
    John
    

>    So a DCV (double-check valve) provides the best protection against
>    backflow?  If a town requires only an anti-syphon device, would a
>    DCV exceed that requirement?

	Yes (or a Reduced Presure device $$$) My town (Londonderry NH)
	require a DCV if you  have city water (I don't but I'm using
	a DCV anyway)

>    I had a contractor give me a quote on a sprinkler system
>    and he said he only uses the anti-syphon type.  He said it just
>    had to come out of the ground 12 inches and that it didn't matter
>    if the rest of the system went above that height.  From my
>    understanding of gravity and syphoning, it didn't seem to make sense.

They have to come out of the ground 12" above the highest point in the system.
Your understanding of gravity is the same as mine. Not sure where that contractor
learned his science from :^)

>    Another question: is it standard operating procedure to put the
>    DCV in the ground (valve box)?  My well/pump is in the basement, so
>    should I put the DCV in the basement?

My DCV is (just installed over the weekend) in my basement. The directions
that came with is said not to install it where there was any danger of freezing
tempratures. 


Hope this helps.

-- Mark


    

    

I have been getting esitmates from several underground sprinkler companies and
have narrowed down the list to two or three companies.  I was wondering if
anyone has any experience/comments/etc. about any of the following make and
model equipment.  (Feel free to either answer here or send me mail at
WHYNOW::NEWMAN)


Vendor #1
---------
	Toro Rotary Popup Super Series 600 Sprinkler Heads
	Toro Flo-Pro In-Line Valves
	Weathermatic LawnMate Electronic Controller
	(This vendor says piping is installed approx. 6" below surface)

Vendor #2
---------
	Hunter PGP Sprinkler Heads
	(Valve Brand Unknown)
	Hardie Rain Dial Series Controller
	(This vendor says piping is installed approx. 10" below surface)

Vendor #3
---------
	Nelson Pro 6000 Gear Drive Sprinkler Heads
	Nelson Pro 7900 Electric Irrigation Valves
	Hardie Rain Dial Series Controller

re -.1

All of the contractors I've talked to (about six)  will only use TORO or Hunter.
They all claim those two manufacturers make the best. At contractors prices the
parts are resonable. At full list price (the only way the homeowner can buy them) 
they are high priced. If you're having a irrigation company do the work I'd
go with TORO or Hunter. I just installed TORO 700 heads over the weekend, I'm
pleased with way way it turned out.

-- Mark

    
    I have the same challenge as .0.  I have sprinklers months and want to
    fine tune them.  How do you adjust them?  I also have the Toro brand.
    
    Looking down at the sprinkler head, it looks like there is a screw in
    the head itself.  The screw turns (making a clicking sound as it
    turns), but I don't see any markings that would suggest what the
    turning would do.  Does anyone have the instructions for one of these
    handy?  My options are to 1) turn the water on and turn the screw to see
    how it affects the sprinkle patter and 2) by a new head at some
    hardware store and look at the manual, etc.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Dennis
    

    
    I went to Home Depot this afternoon and found that although they don't
    have the Toro brand, they do have others that are similar to mine.  The
    construction of the heads is rather simple:  there is a spring to
    hold the sprinkler head retracted; when water rushes through, the head
    gets pushed up and sprays the water.
    
    To clean them, you just unscrew off the head of the assembly, remove,
    and take the inside tubing and cap inside to clean out.  Reassembly is
    simple as well:  just put the cap and tube back in and screw back on.
    
    I also found that you CANNOT adjust the arc of the pop-up stationary
    heads.  The screw on the top of the head is used to control the amount
    of water flow -- not the fullness of the arc.  The cap is shaped with
    either 1/4, 1/4, 3/4, or full spray.  If you want a different pattern,
    you just buy another cap (about $0.94/cap).
    
    The gear-driven rotating heads allow you to adjust the rotation by
    turning some dial on the top of the head.
    
    Dennis
    

    
    I had inground sprinklers installed recently by Grimmard Irrigation,
    Manchester, NH (668-3445) and highly recommend them.  They put in my
    system in about 1 full day of work.
    
    Their attention to customer service was very good.  They explained to
    me how everything works and answered all of my many questions with a
    smile as they worked.  They did a nice job on my lawn (minimal digging)
    by using a machine that slices the grass and vibrates the tubing into
    the grass.  Where they had to dig, they carefully folded over the sod
    and replaced it so that it looked good (i.e., you could hardly tell
    that it was disturbed).  They used quality Toro and Hunter sprinkler
    heads and setup the layout so that I would get very good coverage
    and overlap -- since the sprinklers have been put in, my lawn looks
    much greener :-).  Afterward, they drew a map of where the tubing
    was in case I needed to add a fence or dig somewhere.
    
    The system came with a rain-sensor to prevent the sprinklers from
    automatically starting when it is raining.
    
    Upon calling them, they were very prompt with surveying the land and
    putting together an estimate for me.  I talked them into giving
    Digital employees a $100 discount (just tell them you work at Digital).
    
    Dennis
    
    p.s.  In accordance with Digital policy I make no profit from this and
    hope that using them can save you some money.  
    

    
    This note is about as close to my problem as any....
    
    I have "Weathermatic" heads, and I'd like to adjust the turning radius
    of a couple of them.
    
    I can adjust the water level fine, but I can't figure out the turning
    radius. I've seen some that the top of the head "pops" off and there's
    the exposed gearing. I tried "popping" off the top of my head and I
    couldn't get it to come off, so I'm starting to think that its not
    supposed to come off.
    
    The top of the head has 2 holes, one thin one (this I can fit the tool
    into and adjust the water level.
    
    The other hole is a lot bigger. The other end of the tool fits in here.
    I can use it to pull the head up out of the ground when the sprinkler
    is not on, by simply twisting 1/4 turn so the tool grabs the sprinkler.
    
    Anyone know how to adjust the turning radius ?
    
    Thanks.
    George
    
    

    Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere in this note but I didn't see it
    as I scanned thru....we are planning to install a sprinkler system for
    our yard and garden areas. Last year we used lots of hoses and elevated
    the sprinklers so we could reach about 30' with each. We plan to use
    the same concept but wuth underground pipe, timers, etc. A couple
    questions:
    
    1. Does anyone know if HQ or Home Depot, etc. have a design service for
    sprinkler systems?
    
    2. We will be getting the water from our lake. Any suggestions on type
    of pump (we've had input on needed throughput).
    
    3. Does anyone have a recommendation for an electrician who can provide
    us with some outside/underground wiring and a few boxes?
    
    Thanks
    Debbie
    

Re: .87

1. Most places that sell sprinkler stuff have design services and/or classes.
   Personally, I went to the classes and designed the system myself.  Then
   I knew exactly what trade-offs were made.

   In Colorado Springs, Home Base, Home Depot, Hugh M. Woods, and ABC Plumbing
   all have free design services.

2. I ran a sprinkler system from a dry well that never seemed to be dry.  I
   picked up a 1 1/2 horsepower irrigation pump used, and it handled a zone
   rated at 15 GPM/30 PSI just fine.  The biggest problem that I had was
   having junk from the dry well clogging the smaller sprinkler heads.  The
   impact sprinklers didn't have that problem.

I'm looking to put in a sprinkler system (live in Littleton MA) and am looking for 
feedback, experiences etc that anyone has had with the following companies:

	Forever Green (out of Chelmsford MA)
	Roark Irrigation