Conference 7.286::home_work

    I AM LOOKING FOR A BRASS BAR TO USE AS A RAILING FOR GOING UP STAIRS,
    ANYTHING LIKE THAT OR ANY SUGGESTIONS?
    

    Somerville Lumber in Westboro has a relatively new display of brass
    fittings for hand rails and such.

There's also a place in Salem NH right next to Trend-Lines that sells brass 
railings.  But it's seriously expensive stuff.

Paul

    1.25" or 1.5" copper plumbing pipe with sweated joints, standard
    T's, 45's, end caps make a nice railing.  Use a standard copper
    adapter to join this creation to standard black iron floor flanges
    which you then use to attach to the wall or floor.  Cleanup the
    pipe after soldering with steelwool and coat with clear spray 
    finish.  One heck of a lot less expensive than brass.  I did about
    40' to 50' feet of it on a balcony and down both sides of two half
    flight stairways in my tri-level for less than $90.00 about five
    years ago.
    
    Bill G.
    

    Where else but Spags... in the little school house next to the toilets.
    
    -al

    
    
     I heard of a chemical that protects brass from air, and water
    does anybody know what it is?
    
                           Dave E.
    

    Depends where the brass is being used.  If say for example it's
    a lamp, fixture, or knick knack, then typically brass is covered
    with a thin layer of clear acrylic.  Most polished brass things
    you buy in the store are protected this way.  You can buy Krylon
    clear acrylic spray at almost any hardware store (and Spags).
    
    -al

    
    
    
    
    thanks Al
    

    Taken without permission from January/February 1988 Fine Woodworking:
    
    Q:	I make brass parts for musical instruments, but haven't found
    a protective finish that doesn't tarnish sooner or later.  I presently
    wash the brass, sand it to a matte finish with 600 grit paper, then
    apply a clear cellulose enamel.  Within six months, the parts tarnish
    to a medium-brown color.  How can I avoid this?
    
    A:	Brass is often lacquered to prevent tarnishing.  This works for
    a while, but if the piece is handled, the lacquer will eventually
    wear off in spots, and you may have to refinish the piece again.
    Several products, such as Mohawk Tone Finish (Mohawk Finishing
    Products, Inc., Route 30 N., Amsterdam, N.Y. 12010), and Opex Clear
    Metal Lacquer (Sherwin-Williams Co., 101 Prospect Ave. N.W., Cleveland,
    Ohio 44115) are specially formulated for metal products, such as
    saxophones and other brass instruments.  Apparently these lacquers
    do not breathe as much as lacquers formulated for wood, so they seal
    out air and moisture, thus preventng the oxidation that causes tarnish.
    
    No matter what finish you use, you must start with a perfectly clean
    surface.  First, polish the brass to the desired gloss, then remove
    any contaminants from the surface.  Eric Kasner, chemical engineer
    and president of Hood Finishing Products in Freehold N.J., recommended
    cleaning the metal with kerosene, mineral spirits, lacquer thinner
    or "dip" variety brass and copper cleaners (dipping about 15 seconds
    to etch the surface free of oxides).  The dipping solution is basically
    a mixture of nitric and phosphoric acids.  The brass can't be handled
    from this point on, else oil from fingerprints will contaminate
    the finish.  One saxophone repairman told me thorough cleaning
    procedures will make it possible to get good results with conventional
    wood lacquer.
    
    The most effective coating for the cleaned surface is vinyl sealer,
    an anti-penetrating sealer available from most finishing companies.
    After the vinyl sealer coat, any compatible lacquer will do, although
    acrylics generally give better results.
    
    [Dick Boak, manages the Sawmill, the exotic-wood sales division
    of The Martin Guitar Co., in Nazareth, Pa.]
    
    - Mark

    Has anyone had any experience with cutting and soldering brass piping.?
    I have to relocate some piping in my basement and i understand its
    a bear to work with. I would like to cut in and add on copper and
    then join the other end again with the existing brass. Some questions
    I have are:
    
    	1.  how do you cut it.  Will a copper pipe cutter do the trick
    		or do i have to use a hack saw??
    
    	2.  Is the soldering of the brass to copper adaptors which I
    		purchased at sommerville lumber difficult to use or
    		should i be looking at purchasing threaded brass pipe??
    
    	3.  Why did the plumber that came in to give me and estimate
    		tell me he wouldn't be responsible if any of the joints
    		leaked after the work was done,.??  is this stuff that
    		sensitive??  House is 60 years old.
    
    feedback from experienced pipers is welcome.
    
    						thanks   pt

< Note 2066.0 by CYBORG::THIBAULT >
    
>    	2.  Is the soldering of the brass to copper adaptors which I
>    		purchased at sommerville lumber difficult to use or
>    		should i be looking at purchasing threaded brass pipe??
    
If you doubt your ability to solder brass (I would, unless you have lots
of patience!), why not use compression fittings to perform the brass to copper
joints?  They don't leak, and they don't require any brass soldering.

/Al

    I'm not sure you can get compression fittings that large.  And you
    would still have all the other problems.
    
    I think you'll be able to cut the brass pipe with a regular pipe cutter,
    but it will create a very large burr on the inside of the pipe that
    you'll have to remove, either with a pipe reamer or a round file.
    Same as when you cut copper tubing, only more so because the pipe
    wall is thicker.  
    
    If you've got brass-pipe-to-copper-tubing adapters you can solder,
    that's probably the way to go.  If you can reliably solder copper
    tubing I don't think you'd have any problems here.  If you can't
    reliably solder copper tubing, maybe that's a way to practice first.
    There is really only one "secret" to soldering tubing: GET IT CLEAN!!!
    Steel wool, emery paper, wire brush, or whatever; polish the heck
    out of the indside of the fitting and the outside of the tubing
    (or pipe); keep yer greasy fingers off the surface, apply a good
    film of paste soldering flux, and apply heat until the tubing (or
    pipe) is hot enough to melt the solder.  Apply the solder on the
    side of the joint opposite the heat source, and the solder will
    flow towards the heat.
    Since this is for water pipe you'll need to use no-lead solder,
    which is a bit less forgiving than the old tin-lead solder, but
    you should still do okay.  Really, once you get the hang of it,
    soldering tubing is a snap.  BEFORE you get the hang of it, it seems
    impossible.  Just take the time up front to get everything clean
    and fluxed and you shouldn't have any problems.
    Oh yeah - you don't need a lot of solder, either.  Just enough to
    fill the joint which, if you consider how small the clearances are
    between the surfaces, isn't much.  A lot of plumbers seem to have
    the idea that putting a lot of solder on the outside of the joint
    and pipe, especially if it runs down and makes a mess, somehow helps;
    it doesn't.  If you need a lot of solder, you didn't prepare the
    joint properly to begin with.
    
    Normally, brass pipe is threaded, but if you have solderable adapters
    that's probably the way to go.  Cutting threads on pipe takes some
    tools you probably don't have and probably don't want to bother
    buying because of the cost.  I suppose you might be able to rent
    them.
    

    Why plumber wouldn't guarantee the joints: I don't know, except
    that it seems to be the basic rule of plumbing that old pipes
    ALWAYS break.  It is ALWAYS a pain to connect into, or work on,
    old pipes.  However, assuming you take your time and work slowly,
    I expect you'll do okay.  It might be prudent to start this project
    on a day when plumbing supply stores are open...as is true with
    all plumbing projects.
    It would be handy to localize the project (if you can) via shutoff
    valves, so you don't lose water in the whole house while you're
    doing it.  Nothing like somebody clamoring to use the bathroom to
    make a plumbing job go from bad to worse.
    
    Another hint: it's just about impossible to solder a pipe that has
    any water at all in it; drain the pipes thorougly before you begin.
    The heat-absorbing qualities of water are truly amazing.

    My experience with brass pipe is that it is thick and *threaded*.
    In that case, I would remove a piece at the beginning and put an
    adaptor that is threaded on one end and sweat (copper, no threads)
    on the other end.  From there everything is copper and sweat fittings.
    I would do the same at the other end.  I would not bother trying
    to solder to brass if I did not have to.  If necessary, you can buy 
    threaded brass pipe if the piece you are coming off of or going to 
    is not the right length.  If for some reason this is not the case, 
    then I guess you are stuck soldering to brass.

    No, Brass is not always threaded.
    
    You can get compression fittings big enough for most brass pipe
    - I'd a 3 inch fitting in my basement.
    
    Why not replace the fitting with plastic? Lot less headache.

    Re:  Plastic Man
    
    I thought CPVC was great, until one of my pipes broke (hot
    water *everywhere*, steamed off some wallpaper and destroyed
    a ceiling below it).  I believe this was probably caused by
    a manufacturing defect in the pipe.
    
    Re: .0
    
    I would go with .4's suggestions if they are threaded.  They may
    be difficult to undo, but you can do it with some heat and some
    force.  Be sure to wrap teflon tape around the threaded portion.
    Wrap it the same direction as you twist on the female fitting (so
    that you tighten the tape as you tighten the fitting).  For extra
    protection against leakage put silicon grease (a.k.a. stopcock
    grease) on the female fitting, also. 

    

    re .2, cleaning with steel wool:
    
    Last time I tried that (which was also the first time I tried soldering
    copper), I couldn't get the solder to flow. It just sat there and
    beaded up. Was about to throw all my DIY books through the nearest
    window, when a neighbor suggested emery paper. Worked like a charm!

    re: .7
    
>    Last time I tried that (which was also the first time I tried soldering
>    copper), I couldn't get the solder to flow. It just sat there and
>    beaded up. 
    
    Did you use flux either time?  It works for me, and I've never used
    anything BUT steel wool.
    
    -joet

    Another vote for steel wool.  I use it for every job, and along
    with the flux, I have never had a problem.
    
    - Mark

    I hope you guys don't live in Massachusetts.....  The piping police
    may be listening and you know what that means!
    
    
    -bill

    .10:
    
    Not to worry -- my father and I did that just last week, two elbows
    and a short bit of pipe...
    
    I had to wait a week to get my car's heater replaced, after it emptied
    itself on my feet while driving to work.  I disconnected the heater,
    and tied the two hoses together with the pipe and elbows (the OD
    of the elbows made for a nice snug fit in the hose!)
    
    Dick
    

         ___     | <---- 1 3/4" ----> |    
        |---|   _
        |---|--| |---/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
        |---|  | |                    |
        |---|  | |                    |
        |---|--| |---\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
        |---|   -          \
         ---                \- 1\4-20 thread
           \
            \
             \--knurled head

Does anyone know where I can find a BRASS KNURLED SCREW like the above ??

I've found this type of screw in brass but not that long.  The application is
outdoors and little strength is required - thus the brass.  It's for holding
up windows and/or screens on a 3 season porch.  The bottom of the window goes
against a stop (inside), the sides and top go against a stop (outside).
The screws go through the window at the top to hold it in place against the 
stop.  Please don't make me draw another picture.  I'm using the brass inserts
that put a machine screw thread into wood.

Please don't suggest Spag's - I still have my virginity!!

    
    	You might have an easier time making something similar to it
    unless they have to be matching.  You could get a knurled knob,
    drill and tap 1/4-20 threads in it, then take some threaded rod
    and anchor it in with a nut on the 1 3/4 side.  Then just cut the
    rod to the desired length, 1 3/4 inches.
    
    
    	> ...I still have my virginity!!

	It's ok.  They'll be gentle.

< Note 2629.0 by FREDW::MATTHES >
                    -< brass knurled 1 3\4" bolt - where?? >-




         ___     | <---- 1 3/4" ----> |    
        |---|   _
        |---|--| |---/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
        |---|  | |                    |
        |---|  | |                    |
        |---|--| |---\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
        |---|   -          \
         ---                \- 1\4-20 thread
           \
            \
             \--knurled head

>>>I'M IMPRESSED! That is a nice descriptive drawing!

Does anyone know where I can find a BRASS KNURLED SCREW like the above ??

>>>I would try one of the hardware stores that has the Sharon nut and bolt 
display, or something similar. (That is the rows of shelves with boxes of 
assorted sizes of nuts and bolts on them.) Look for a really big store that 
carries rows and rows of these shelf display and I think you may find what 
you want. I have seen them with the brass knurled nut, but dont recall 
seeing the threaded portion attached to it. Other suggestion is to write 
the mfr or try some window/door places, it may be a specialty item 
available only to those who aree willing to search and grovel for it!

Please don't suggest Spag's - I still have my virginity!!

>>>I wouldn't think they would have these, but try the fishing tackle 
counter... ;-}

    Vic H

    Just a quick suggestion:
    
    Brass on brass may cause galling.   Locating the same screw in
    stainless or cad plate will be alot easier.

	Digression to follow....
    
    I would like to nominate .0 as the best graphics for vtXXX for 1988.
    The previous years winner was Paul Weiss with note 817.2

    re. .4
    
    I second the motion.  This is the best so far...
    
    Patrick

>                          -< Winner of Graphics of the Year >-

    I nominate 347.15 for the 1986 award.
    

I nominate 347.15 for the graphics of the CONFERENCE award!

Where do people find time to do this stuff?   8^)

    I nominate this conference for the best graphics of the entire NOTE
    UNIVERSE! 

    
    I need to cut a 3 inch hole out of a piece of sheet brass that is 1/8
    inch thick.  Will a regular hole saw do the job, on the package they
    say what to do when cutting metal, but the teeth don't look as if they
    would stand up to metal cutting.  I am not sure that with a hack saw
    blade I could get that tight of a radius.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Cal

    Personally, I'd go with a drilled hole, then use my sabre saw with
    a fine toothed blade. Depending on the finish wanted, I'd then 
    file the hole to the correct size.
    
    You *can* use a jewelers saw, but buy a *lot* of blades. With 1/8"
    brass, you'll need them.
    
    bld
    

    A hole saw ought to work fine on brass.  I'd want to use a drill
    press though, and not try to do it with a hand drill.  And *clamp*
    the brass to the drill press table!  

    
    
    	....I agree. A hole saw which states that it cuts through metal
    	should work fine. I used one to cut through stainless steel
    	and that's tougher than brass.
    
    	Gary
    

I hope that I'm not getting my terminology screwed up here, but a "hole saw" is
cylindrical, right?  If that's the case, a 3" metal-cutting hole saw is going
to be a lot of money for one hole.  

*If and only if* you have (access to) a drill press, a circle cutter ("fly
cutter"?) is a much cheaper way to go.  And much more flexible for future use. 
In case I haven't got the terminology right here, what I mean is the cutter
that has an adjustable arm with the single, chisel-like cutter on the end:

		||
		||
	   ____|  |________||_
	   ----    --------  -
	       |  |	   ||
		||	   ||
   pilot bit -- \/	   \|  --- cutter


I have to repeat that this should _ONLY_ be used in a drill press, with the
work securely clamped!
	    

    Just my opinion, but if it's at all possible I'd practice
    on a piece of scrap first.

    re: .4             

    I would *NEVER* use a fly cutter for metal.  The thing is hard enough
    to use safely in wood!  I think one would run the risk of gouging the cutter
    into the metal and bending the hell out of it (not to mention anything
    else that might be in the area).

    Any "wood" cutting hole saw should have no problem going through
    nonferrous metal.  One just has to go slowly.

    re: .0  Where are you?  I've got hole saws and associated equipment and
    (if you promise to ignore my very messy shop) could probably be talked
    into drilling the hole for you.  (I'm in Nashua, NH)  Send me mail if
    you are interested.

    -Bob

    I've been a tool maker for 16 years and love to see
    notes like this one. 
    1 I've *never* used a fly cutter on anything other than metal.
    but .4 isn't a fly cutter.
    2 The tool .4 is talking about is a "trepan", and when I look
    it up in the dictionary it says "To trephine" A surgical saw for
    cutting out disks of bone, esp from the skull.
    
    I have a rig here that you just punch in the center of the hole, 
    the dia, the cutter dia, turn the cutter on, sit down and watch.
    
    
    buz
    
                            

    Ditto (more or less) on .7.  I'm strictly an amateur metalworker,
    but consulting a tool catalog here, I find a cutter along the
    same lines as the one described in .4 called the "Holex...cut any
    dimeter hole 1" to 12" up to 2" depth."  Trouble is, it costs
    $1,500....  I hasten to add, however, that it has a #5 Morse Taper
    arbor and comes with 2 sets of carbide cutters, a set of wrenches,
    and a fitted steel case.  Sounds like a bit more elaborate than
    what it needed in this situation.  
    
    On the facing page, I notice that a 3" diameter hole saw is $9.68.
    

    
    re: a few back... Mentioned **clamping** the piece down
    
    For some reason, when drilling brass, the bit will tend to 'grab' in
    the metal, and if the metal is not clamped or otherwise held *firmly*,
    you find yourself looking at a piece of brass spinning around on
    your drill bit. Can be quite frightening, not to mention dangerous.
    
    When I said firmly, I mean better than your hand! The power drill will
    rip the piece right out of your hand.
    
    Safety First!
    
    bld
    

    re: .7

>   2 The tool .4 is talking about is a "trepan", and when I look
>   it up in the dictionary it says "To trephine" A surgical saw for
>   cutting out disks of bone, esp from the skull.

    Okay, what is a "Fly Cutter" then?  I've never heard this tool (as in
    .4) referred to as anything else.

    Maybe the tool Steve mentioned in .8 is the right one, but the $5.95
    General (manufacturer) circular-hole-maker-with-a-flying-cutter is
    still, I think, not the tool to use.  Now granted, I am not a tool
    maker, but I've been a wood worker for more than 30 years, and I still
    don't like using one of these things in WOOD!  Maybe in brass it won't
    grab like one does tend to in wood, but I don't care to find out, thank
    you.

    Please feel free to correct me (as I know youall will) if I am wrong
    [it doesn't happen often :-) :-) ] as I'm always eager to learn
    something new or (probably more importantly) correct wrong ideas.

    -Bob

    Fly cutter....
    
    Very similar, except it's used for facing a surface, not for cutting
    a hole.  It's also not adjustable for width of cut.  It uses a
    single-point toolbit held in a fixed position.  They are used
    instead of large milling cutters; a lot slower than a milling
    cutter, but also a *lot* cheaper.
    
    The hole cutters (trepanning tools) must be used in a drill press, 
    with the work securely clamped; you haven't tried to use one with 
    a hand drill, have you?  I've never tried to use one at all, so
    I have no experience with how easy (or difficult) they are to
    control.

    re: .11
    
>   The hole cutters (trepanning tools) must be used in a drill press, 
>   with the work securely clamped; >>you haven't tried to use one with 
>   a hand drill, have you?<<
     
    Well, yes I have, but then again, I'm crazy.  I had to cut a 6" hole in
    a bellows for my pipe organ and the cleanest way (very important when
    working on installed equipment) was with one of these cutters.  I used
    a *very* slow 1/2" hand drill and *WENT* very slowly.  Wasn't easy. 
    Wrenched the hell out of my wrists, but it got the job done.  I would
    **NOT** recommend to anyone (even myself).  Use it in a drill press
    where it belongs if you have to use one.
    
    -Bob
        

I have many cutters and matching dies (there's probably an official name for
these) that are used for cleanly cutting shapes in sheet metal, like holes for
switches, etc.  They consist of a die and a cutter.  You drill a pilot hole in
the center, put this thing together through the hole, and use a wrench to
*very* cleanly make your opening.

Most of mine are small, but I know I have one that just might be 3" diameter.

Have you made your hole yet?  MAIL me to check the size tonight.

Pete

    re: .13
    
    I've always known 'em as "Greenlee chassis punches."  I don't
    know if they could deal with 1/8" thickness; since it's brass,
    they might.  Agree - they cut beautiful holes in sheetmetal
    within their capacity.

    I used a hole saw, it took time and patience but it worked out fine, 
    I have used the hole saw since on wood and its' use on the brass does
    not seem to have caused a problem.
    
    Thanks for all your ideas and offers to help.
    
    Cal 

    I've been poking around in the file because I thought a saw a reference
    to creating the "aged" green patina effect on copper and brass.  Does
    anyone know the chemical formulation and procedure?  I've got a couple
    of entry-way lights that I don't want to try to take down to a
    completely polished finish.
    
    dan

    This is no joke. Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember this...
    
    Urinate on it.
    
    Having never wanted to age copper I can't vouch for the effectiveness,
    but I did read this *somewhere*. I wish I could remember where, if only
    to prove (or disprove) it to myself...
    
    Edd

    The most active chemical in urine is ammonia.  You may be able to
    similar results by using ammonia from a bottle.

This is not a recommendation to p*ss into the wind.  ;-)

Try to find one of the people/places that makes those stupid wind chimes out of
copper pipe.  They have some way to make them green.

Stan

    try calling a stained glass supply store. They should have something.
    I've done some glass work and I'm pretty sure they must have something.
    
    
    
    B

In Nashua, NH, try 

	Renaissance Glass Works         603-882-1779
                m-f 10-5:30  t,r -8:30  Sat 10-3

Sulfuric acid will turn it green in no time flat. The green is copper sulfate.
If you want to test it, get a drop or two from your car battery.

...and be CAREFULL!  Sulfuric will eat just about anything.

Mickey.

>Sulfuric acid will turn it green in no time flat. The green is copper sulfate.

Or is copper sulfate blue? The more I think about it, the less sure I am.
Try it on a penny.

    The glass stores have a number of patinas, but green isn't one
    of them. Stained glass stores sell bottled patina that works on
    lead, not copper.... 'course one of the patinas is to make lead
    *look* like copper.
    
    What about using flux? I've seen copper pipes that turn green where
    the flux dripped.

re .7/.8:

Copper sulfate is blue, and will wash off the copper.
I believe the green from weathered copper is copper carbonate.  Try
soaking copper in some carbonated water as an experiment.

-Mike

A company called Flax Art & Design has what you need.  
Their number is 1-800-547-7778

From the catalog:

"Solutions that duplicate nature's effects on metals, but work in minutes 
instead of years."  Each @ $18 a pint.

Patina Green for brass and copper
Red Rust for a natural antique rust look to iron and steel
Pewter black for a myustifying dark antique finish on brass, bronze, copper,
	nickel, iron, cast iron and steel.
Golden Glow for a gold finish on brass or silver
Copper Coat for instant plating of copper on iron, tin, lead, and brass.

These aren't paints.  They're chemicals that actually oxidize, plate, etc.  I 
have the Patina Green, but I haven't used it yet.

They have a neat catalog with all kinds of finishes, including granite in a can,
marbleizing, pickling stain, french wash.  Also lots of yuppie toys.

    It sounds like that's exactly what he needs. I've seen the green
    patina on 'creative jewelry'. I wonder what a 'mystifying' patina
    looks like.... should be useful for something.

	    This note hasn't been active since June, but... I would 
	expect most copper fixtures would have some kind of coating 
	on them to prevent their oxidizing.  You may have (had) to 
	remove such a coating in order to effectively patina (verb?)	
	them.
	    Anyways, I would have suggested you try soaking them in
	salt water.  I doubt this would get results in just minutes,
	though.
					Tim

Some time ago, I had a plastic container of hydrochloric acid in 
my basement near copper water pipes. The container cover 
apparently was loose and fumes escaped causing the pipes to turn 
green. I don't recommend using hydrochloric acid to get a patina 
on copper but you might try using vinegar. Vinegar is about 5% 
acidic and it might work for you. Incidentally, a patina or 
verdigris, is normally caused by the actions of acetic acid on 
copper and is poisonous pigment.

Joe

When I used the patina stuff (.11, above) all I had to do was a quick wash 
followed by a light rub with Scotch Brite.  I used it on a brass kettle and a 
copper pitcher which now look like they were made for each other.  It took 
quite a few applications, but it really looks neat. When I was doing it, I had 
the whole thing sitting on a piece of thick aluminum foil oven liner.  The drip
ate right through the foil, but the stuff itself wasn't noxious at all, 
although it may technically be an acid.

The instructions, which I happen to have here, state "Many home items of copper, 
brass, and bronze have a protective film to prevent natural oxidation.  This
film must be removed for Patina Green to have an effect.  Remove all dirt,
grease, grime, lacquer and other residue usiing a metal cleaner.  If necessary,
rub with a fine abrasive such as a Scotch Brite pad or an emery cloth and rinse
thoroughly.  (Use of steel wool may result in traces of red rust in the patina
if the object is not thoroughly rinsed.)  Patina green will only react with
a clean metal surface."

In addition to the mail order information in .11, here's the mfr's name:

	Modern Options, Inc.  217 Second Street, San Francisco, Calif. 94105
	Tel 415 552 2752	Fax 415 543 4080

                  
Re .15    
    
> I used it on a brass kettle and a 
>copper pitcher which now look like they were made for each other.  It took 
>quite a few applications, but it really looks neat. When I was doing it, I had 
>the whole thing sitting on a piece of thick aluminum foil oven liner.  The drip
>ate right through the foil, but the stuff itself wasn't noxious at all, 
>although it may technically be an acid.
 
From the sounds of it, you set up a galvanic couple between the copper
    and the aluminum, and aluminum is considerably more anodic relative
    to the copper.  This is probably what caused it to be eaten away.
    
    Re.  earlier notes. . .
    
    It was suggested earlier that ammonia be used to accelerate the
    patina process, and I agree that this will work but I want to add
    a caution here:  copper in an ammonia-rich environment is very
    susceptible to a failure mechanism known as Stress Corrosion Cracking.
    As the name implies, a stress (but significantly below the yield
    strength) needs to be applied to the copper, so you might want to
    think twice before using this technique if the copper alloy 
    is stressed in service.  Probably not a whole lot of cases where
    this is true.  
    
    Pretty interesting how this mechanism was discovered.  Seems that
    many years ago, bullets in some kind of bronze crimped cartridges
    were stored in boxes near the urine-soaked straw in the horses' stable 
    at a calvary output.  The cartridges were found to have failed at the 
    crimped areas, and, lo and behold, this mechanism was discovered.
    
    Greg B.
    

Interesting thing I just kinda stumbled upon.

A friend of mine just built a kinda sculpture made out of copper tubing.

It is outside in the yard and I noticed that it was turning green around 
the joints where it was soldered.

In order to get the entire thing green, we just steel wooled
the entire thing, and put flux (you normally use to clean before 
soldering) on the entire thing, and then just quickly heated it up with
a torch. 

A day later, you could see it had already started to turn green.

    The chemical that a friend (who runs his own forge) uses to put a green
    patina on bronze (and other copper-based alloys) is ammonium chloride.