Conference 7.286::home_work

Check out note 133 in the TOOLS notesfile.

KP7, etc

Paul

    I would suggest you checkout Sears as the have a big selection of
    wet and dry vac's. I have one of their 12 gallon models and it has
    paid for it's self many times over.
    

I have a Sears too and so far have no complaints.  However, from what I've
been reading in the CONSUMER notes file, I'm getting more scared about
Sears every day!

When I bought mine, I was told by the salesman that if I waited long enough,
their top of the line vac with a complement of attachments usually would go
on sale for $99 and that that was the best deal.  All other vacs were only
sold without the attachments.

I waited, and as usual got it on sale (one of the things that CONSUMER says
and I agree with %1000 is that Sears rarely sells things at retail and virtually
everything has a sale price that is comparable to the rest of the worlds prices
if you're willing to wait awhile).

-mark

    I have a Shop-vac (that's the brand) from Lechmeres.  The
    hose ripped the first time I used it.  They ungraciously
    gave me a new one.  Does anyone else have the problem of
    the paper filter bags falling/ripping apart after about
    5 minutes of use?
    

    re: .4
    
    Never had a bag rip on me.  Make sure that you use a different filter
    for your wet use and your dry use.
    
    My filter was dirty once and I didn't want to go out searching for a
    new one.  I took a bag from my Hoover upright, cut it in half, and
    secured it around the cartridge with a big rubber band.  It seems to
    work better than the ones they sell specially for the machine. Not as
    much dust gets through, and I don't notice any less suction. 

How does one clean the fileter effectively..? I have a cheapo cannister model
and the only thing the matter with it is that the air filter gets clogged with
sawdust. I usually use my fingers to clean the pleats in the filter but this
makes somewhat of a mess.

re: 4,5, and 6

Buy a cartridge filter (for those of you with paper bags) and then cover
it with a prefilter (a woman's nylon).  You can easily remove all the
crud that builds up by pulling on the bottom of they nylon and the pleated
cartridge filter does not get nearly as dirty.

-peter

    I have an 8 Gallon Sears shop Vac that works great, it uses the
    same filter for wet and dry operations, some vacs you have to change
    filters for each operation.
    It is a canister filter with the ridges, and I use a knee high nylon
    over it as .7 mentioned, and it is easy to brush off the fine dust
    etc. and keep the main filter from clogging up.
    Jean
    

I've got an older Sears (about 8 years now) and it's working fine, 
although I had failed to clean it at regular intervals and it ate an 
armature. I replaced it for ~$30 and keep the filter clean now!

Re: cleaning...

My tack to cleaning is to have two filters. Since it's a wet/dry vacuum,
I shake off all the loose dirt, brush it off then hose it down from the
inside. I use the dry filter while the first is still wet... 

    re: .8
    
    I didn't mean that there were two types of filter for wet and dry
    use.  I wanted to make the point that if you use it as a wet vac
    and then suck up plaster dust without putting on a dry filter that
    the cartridge will basically be a blob of cement when you get through.
    
    The water expands the fibers in the filter and the dust sticks to
    it because it's wet.  When it dries, it solidifies.
    
    -joet

    I noticed in last nights newspaper a flyer for Sears advertising
    a Craftsman shop vac for $99.00   Sounds like a good deal, and I'd
    think that Craftsman is a pretty good name when it comes to tools.
    
    p.s. I live in Nashua, but I assume most N.E. Sears have similar
    sales at the same time.
    

    re: .10
    
    This is true too, using a dry filter, but I believe and could be
    wrong, that some brands and older models, you had to remove a bag
    type filter and use a different type one for wet use, I really 
    don't know, just heard it some place. 
    I got mine on sale for around $70, with I think 4 attachments and
    the hose of course. It's an 8 gallon one and goes on sale regularly,
    for that price. I forget the horsepower. The 16 gallons go on sale
    regularly too, for the $99 price I believe, and has a little more
    horse power. (Sears)
    Jean

    So far my research shows that some do in fact have a seperate filter
    fo wet. Also, that ones with hoses coming through the top tend to
    tip over, that sears ones, although reliable are noisey and that
    all vacs go on sale.
    
    Sooo.. I've decided to go to Spags tomorrow and see what they have
    and if not there, then probably sears to get one, and some ear plugs.
    
    thanks for the help.
    
    Gary

    Haven't found this topic elsewhere, so...
    
    I'm interested in the DIYers' opinions on wet/dry vacuum cleaners.
    There wasn't much in the CONSUMER notes file on the topic.  As we
    frequently have problems with water in the basement, I'm particularly
    interested in their WET-mode operation.  I also want it for the
    normal things such as cleaning up sawdust, etc.
    
    Do these things normally come with the option of hooking the
    hose up for blowing rather than vacuuming?  I'd like one with
    sufficient power to blow out the pipes of my pool when I close
    it up for the winter.
    
    Things I've already heard mentioned:
      o Someone said that the hose coming out the top made the thing
    	topheavy.
      o some models require changing filters (different types) when
    	switching between wet and dry operation
      o get a 2" hose rather than the 1�" hose (I was hoping to do
    	this anyway because the pool has 2" piping).
      o check the tank construction - some metallic ones will rust
    
    What do you folks think?  What else should I look for?  Any
    handy options you find for working around the house?
    
    Thanks,
    	Rob

    
    
    	   I bought a Sears Wet/Dry Vac (12 gal?) this past Spring
    	when it went on sale.  I have yet to use it for sucking up
    	water, but it has a powerful suction and it came in handy
    	for vacumming up glass from our shattered back door!  The
    	drawback of this model are:
    
    			1.  It's VERY loud
    			2.  It is top heavy and can fall over easily
    			3.  The top no longer stays on with the orig-
    			    inal plastic handle snaps.  (I will make
    			    my own clamps soon!)
    
    	   It also has a removable filter, but I found it is pretty
    	sturdy and I was able to clean it quite well by washing it
    	out in the sink.   Hope this helps!
    
    						Derrick

    This was also discussed in the TOOLS conference.  KP7 to add it.

Get the Sears 16 gal wet/dry vac (plastic bucket). I've had one for
years and swear by it. You can usually find it on sale for $100. It
picks up sawdust, nails, gravel, water, small animals, and anything
else that gets near it. It has the 2 1/2" hose; this is important when
you're picking up random junk - much less likely to clog than the 1
1/2". I agree with .1 that it is noisy as hell. I wear earmuffs when I
use it.

The 16 gal vac is fatter than the 12, so it's not as tippy. You still
have to be a bit careful pulling it around by the hose, but you can do
it.

I also had periodic water problems until I fixed my drainage. Sears
sells a special water pickup nozzle with a built-in squeegee. It leaves
the floor almost dry.

Generally, I remove the filter (per Sears's recommendation) when I
use it for water. The filter will tolerate water, but you're better
off not getting it wet - it's hell to clean afterwards. The vac
has a float valve in it that keeps it from overfilling and sending
water up through the motor (boy, that would be a show!)

Another useful trick I learned: Concrete and plaster dust is a real
bear to vacuum up. It's so fine that only a small quantity will
clog the filter. (NEVER try to use a regular household vac on this
stuff - you'll destroy it.) What I do is: Leave the filter in.
Pour about an inch of water in the bottom of the vac. Vacuum up the
dust. Most of the dust ends up in the water, rather than on the filter,
so the vac has a much greater effective capacity. Once you're done,
your have to wash the sludge out of the barrel and wash and dry the
filter. A pain, but nothing else works at all.

    .2: thanks for the pointer - I didn't have it in my notebook,
    	although I had heard about it somewhere else in this file.
    	It had several good comments about the Sears and the Shop
    	Vac models.
    
    I was in Lechmere's last night shopping for an ultrasonic
    humidifier and right across the aisle was the Shop-Vac 12-gal
    1�-hp model marked down from $89.98 to $69.98.  It appeared to
    do all the things I wanted, so I picked it up.  I'll give it a whirl.
    
    Thanks for the replies.
    
    Rob

    I have a Shop-Vac 16 gallon model which I am happy with.  Spag's
    has them for $74.00.
    
    Marc

    I have a 16 gallon Sears Shop Vac.  It's okay for small quantities of
    water, but if you have a 'serious' water problem, I'd suggest getting
    something made for it (like a submergible pump).
    
    The 16 gallon barrel is heavy when filled with water, and needs to be
    emptied frequently (it doesn't take more than a minute or so to vacuum
    up 16 gallons of water).
    
    To blow water out of pipes, or to pick up a small quantity of water, it
    works great.  To pick up a lot of water, though, it's a lot of work.
    
    	-- Jeff

    Water weighs about 8 lbs/ gallon. 8 X 16 = 128 lbs.
    
    Charly

    Rob,
    
    	I agree with .6 - if you have enough water, you will spend much
    of your time lugging a very heavy container.
    
    	Don't forget that you can also use it for blowing up your pool
    rafts and pillows for the pool cover.
    
    Dale
    

    I have the 16 gallon shop vac and found it useless for vaccuuming
    up sheetrocking dust.  The filter got clogged every 3 minutes. 
    I'll try the trick of putting some water in the tank next time.
    
    I wish I had knows about that last month.
    

    You also might try putting a ladies stocking over the filter. It
    will clog just the same but it makes for easier cleaning

    
    I had a water problem about 3 months ago (the drain for my basement
    was clogged). What I did was put myu shop-vac (Sears 8 gallon) out
    the cellor window. Then ran the hose inside to suck the water. On
    my vac I have a drain plug, which I left open, and the vac acted
    just like a water pump. Worked great.
    
    Mike

    I also have a submersible pump (a tool of the pool-owner trade).
    If I have problems with water again this winter/next spring, I'd
    plan on using it to get rid of most of the water (down to �")
    then suck the rest up with the vac.  I know how heavy the water
    would be (used to own big fish tanks), so I figured that after
    filling the vac, I'd maybe drop the pump down in the cannister
    and pump the water out rather than lugging it somewhere to dump
    it.
    
    I don't think the cannister has a drain plug; but that sounds
    like a great idea if it drains fast enough.  It probably wouldn't
    be that hard to drill a hole in the canister and install one
    someday if I wanted to.
    
    Rob

    I'm surprised that the continuous pumping setup with the open drain
    actually works.  I would think that the vacuum would rather suck
    air from the drain hole than water from the hose.
    
    _Rich

    Sorry if this has been addressed before (my cursory search failed 
    completely), but I'd like to hear of any experiences with the type
    of carpet/upholstery cleaners that attach to a shop-vac and water
    supply.  These cleaner attachments usually are around $20 - $50.  I
    want to know if they work, if they are a good alternative over 
    professional steam cleaning, and if they are easy to use.  Thanks.

Quick, before it gets write-locked...

I have one of the upright "Steemer" units (can't remember the brand) that my 
wife got for about $50 that works nicely on "quick, pickup that spill" type of 
stuff. Why cobble something together if you can get a complete unit cheaply.

P.S. They aren't the same as the heavy wand rinse 'n vac systems but it doesn't
sound like that's what you're trying to set up

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Bruce [Moderator]

    Here is a peculiar problem I've just run into. I own a 8 year old Shop
    Vac with a steal barrel. The bottom rusted away and leaked so I figured
    it was time to replace it. Well I noticed Sears had a big sale so I 
    picked up there (8 or 10 gallon) model (Sears Best). It was to be used
    to pick up water in the basement from a leaky washing machine. I got
    it home and began trying to vaccum up about two gallons of water. 
    When I got about 2 quarts of water picked up THE VACCUM STARTED BLOWING
    WATER OUT OF THE EXHAUST AIR PORT AND AROUND THE MOTOR. I checked
    everything out and reread the instructions multiple times but could'nt
    see what I was doing wrong. I emptied the two quarts and tried the
    vaccum again, it still was blowing water out of every point of the
    motor and the exhaust port. Well I figured I got a bad unit so I packed
    it up and returned it to Sears and got my money back. This time I
    figured I would buy a Shop Vac (the old one worked great). I went to
    Lechmeres and got the 8 gallon model. Got the unit home and put
    together and gave it a try on another 2 gallon puddel.......and guess
    what. This unit acts just like the Sears....BLOWING WATER OUT OF THE
    EXHAUST PORT AND MOTOR AREA AFTER ONLY A PINT OR SO!!!!!!
    
    If anyone has any ideas why two different models/makes can act this
    way PLEASE LET ME KNOW !!!!!!!
    
    Thanks,
      Ed
    

My wet/dry vac has a mesh cover that fits over the motor, and periodically
has to be cleaned.  I'd suggest checking to see if yours is in place.
If it is, you might try testing it to see if water can get through.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    on the Sears the corrugated filter should be in place and secure..
    which should stop water from blowing through. there is also the float 
    ball too when it becomes full.
    Sounds like the water flowing in is getting sucked up through.
    The filter should prevent it...
    Jean

    RE: .15 & .16
    
    In both cases the filter was in place just as the manual had
    instructed. As a matter of fact both units come ready to use as
    WET VAC'S. To use them as dry you need to add a "paper" filter
    bag over the sponge filter. The Sears had a small plastic clamp
    that holds there filter on, I tried tightening it a little more,
    but it did'nt he.
    RE: The Floats: In both units the floats moved up and down very
    easily. But they should have never been affected as I never
    approached more than 10% of the units rated "wet" capacity.
    
    Any other thoughts ????
    

    Ed,  I had the same problem with a shop vac several years ago.
    I picked up a little water and then it started blowing it out
    the exhaust....Couldn't find the receipt...so i don't vacuum
    water. 

Check where the hose comes into the body of the shop-vac.  There's supposed to 
be a deflector to deflect whatever is coming in downward into the body of it.
It sounds like the water is coming up the hose and spraying directly onto the 
fan housing, which is the only thing that I can think of that would cause it 
to spray water when it's not even close to full.

Now what you can do about it if you discover that the little deflector is gone, 
I don't know, but at least you'll know WHY you're having the problem.

Paul

    
    I checked for the DEFLECTOR in both units. They both contained a 
    permanently mounted curved_tube that could'nt be rotated. This deflector
    caused water to enter horizontalely. I would have thought a downward
    vertical position would have been better but in any case they both
    have the same design.
    
    My only thought after close examination is that "somehow" the water
    is making it's way through the fan and beyond whatever seal was/is
    present.
    
    How can something so simple be so.................
    

    If you've ever seen commercial quality shopvacs, you'll note they
    cost about four times what the Sears ones do (for equivalent power
    and capacity).
    
    I'm not pooh-poohing Sears shopvacs - I own two of them, but keep in
    mind that they're non-continuous duty devices intend for casual home
    shop use.   Water is amazingly incompressible, heavy stuff.  The
    homeowners shopvac is doing you a real favor if it stands up to more
    than very occasional light duty water pickup.

    I've had a 'cheap homeowner quality' weet/dry for years and it's sucked
    a lot of water, like huge puddles off a flat roof, etc.  No problem so
    I somewhat disagree with the last note.  
    
    Of course, I also have no idea what is causing the .0 problem here
    either, though the deflector sounds best so far.
    

    I have a 16 gallon Sears w/d vac that has given me many hours of
    faithful service, picking up 200 gallons in one afternoon, more
    than once (see my request for info on basement waterproofing).
    The only time it starts to spit water out the air discharge is when
    the bucket's full. I'll check mine and see how the deflector is set up.
    
    P@

    Well I went ahead and returned the Shop Vac back to Lechmeres. The
    woman at the service desk asked why I was returning it and I told
    her that the unit was blowing water through the motor. She told me
    that they received several returns for the same reason. Interesting !!
    
    For  what it's worth before boxing the unit back up I rechecked
    EVERYTHING. I even took a little light/mirror and tried to check
    inside the motor area. But I could'nt find anything visible. I
    then tried sucking some clean water from a bucket. The unit now
    sprayed water through out the cellar, even reaching the ceiling.
    
    So much for Shop Vacs !!!
    
    

My 10 year old Shop-Vac was ungraciously retired last weekend. When I wasn't 
looking, my three year old dropped a finish nail into one of the cooling
vents on the top. Made for a great show when I turned it on.

I am going to buy a new one and I'm looking for some advice. Any comments on
the ones which have the removable top which can be used as a blower? I don't
have enough of a need for a blower that I'm willing to buy one. However, if I
can get one while buying a shop vac, great!

								Mark

    Seems like a gimmick to me.
    
    I think the best deal is the Sears $99 wet/dry vac, which they often
    run as a "special purchase".  It's 3HP and has a 16 gallon tank.
    The model I have also has variable speed, but they don't seem to
    offer that anymore.
    
    I like having the 2-1/2 inch hose instead of the 1-1/4 inch that
    many models have.
    
    					Steve

    
    	Ditto on -1, I also have a Sears 3HP 16 gallon model (no variable 
    speed though) and haven't had a problem as yet.
    
    Joe 

    I also vote for the large hose.  Relatively short slivers of wood can
    get wedged in the small hose.

    I believe that the 3hp Sears 16 gal. is on sale for $79 in the catalog.  
    Prices good 'til March 1993. I am looking for one also, that's how come
    I noticed.
    
    MikeB.

I haven't replaced my Sears shopvac but when I do I'll certainly look around.
I thought the price of replacement filters and a replacement hose were much
higher than I expected.  Anybody actually priced those items for other makes?
My gut tells me the cost of ownership on the Sears unit will prove to be high.

-Bob

    Why should you have to replace a hose?  I haven't had to replace
    a filter since I bought my vac three years ago - I just shake it
    out periodically.  It's rather large, so I imagine it's not the
    cheapest thing, but last I looked it was only about $12.
    
    In three years, my "cost" for owning the Sears vac has been zero.
    
    					Steve

    I've got to agree with re -0.1.  In the eight years I've owned and
    heavily used my Sears vac I've replaced the filter once and the hose
    once.  Had to repalce the hose becuse of sucking up too many nails that
    got caught and punctured the sides.  If I ever buy another vac I'll
    getthe larger hose size.
    
    George

    Actually, one thing did break on my vac - the plastic clip that
    holds the hose in place when it is wrapped around the unit.  I could
    replace it (saw them at Sears), but don't see why I should bother.
    
    As for puncturing the hose, anything that can pucture the hose on
    my unit has got to be VERY nasty indeed.
    
    					Steve

    I recently bought a Sears 16 Gal. 3.5, shop vac under the sale thy were
    having ($99, I think). I previously had a smaller ShopVac brand unit
    for about 5-6 years. The ShopVac was junk. No matter what I did with
    the filters (cleaning, adjusting, or replacing) it would pass fine dust
    out the exhaust. Yes, the filters were cheap, but they did not work
    well. Sheet rock dust clogged then very quickly. 
    
    The Sears has been great. The filter looks much more substantial than
    the ShopVac. Even at its best the ShopVac suction was marginal. With
    the Sears, you had better stand back or in you go! Seriously, I bought
    the Sears on te recommendation of a contractor/remodeler friend who
    uses his commercially. The new Sears filters are about $16 but with
    normal residential use I would not think you would have to change it
    too often, just shake it out.
    
    Larry

    My old (10+ yrs) Sears is still going strong. The motor bearings got a
    bit noisy. A thorough blasting with the air hose and a drop or two of
    light oil fixed that. The casters are shot from the concrete floor and
    the hose is looking pretty rough, but is keeps on cleaning.
    
    I did invest in the washable filter. Good idea. When it gets real packed
    with dust, shake off what you can (outdoors) and rinse in warm water.
    I let it dry on top of the boiler for a day or two and it looks like new.
    
    Hope the old rig never quits. My neighbor has a much newer Sears, same
    size as mine. I don't think it works as well. Just doesn't have the
    power of my oldtimer.
    
    Peter Duke
    

    We have a Sears shop vac and I highly recommend it.  We go thru 2-6
    filters a year, but my husband is a contractor.  We only need to change
    the filter after cleaning up lots of sheetrock dust.  Everything else
    shakes out nicely.  Ours is ~6 years old, and we have had no problems
    with it.
    
    Rhonda

Well, my research was unnecessary. My wife had bought me a new one as a 
birthday present. The good news is she is sharper than me and bought the
Sear's one without reading all the recommendations here.

My parents have one. She remembered my brother cleaning out his car last
summer, coming in the house and making the statement, "Boy, that vac could
suck the chrome of a bumper!"

Thanks for the info.

						Mark

One of the best uses I can think of for a shop vac came up when my daughter 
was little.  She would crawl into bed with us in the middle of the night and wet 
the bed.  We were then faced with spending the rest of the night trying to avoid
that wet spot on the mattress.

I discovered that I could take the shop vac and not only suck out the moisture, 
but actually dry out the mattress and sheets by leaving the hose sucked in place
for a short time.  After five minutes we could go back to sleep without any 
problems.  It was worth buying the vac for that alone.