Conference 7.286::home_work

  Speaking of phones. I am suppose to choose my long distance phone
  company service by September 8. I live on Acton and my monthly
  bill usually runs about $100 a month. I know a few months ago
  Sprint and MCI were not available in Acton. 
  
  Any comments, feedback pro and con against AT&T, Sprint, MCI
  would be appreciated.
  
						Mike 

    Note #67 in Ask the Easynet, V2 has a lengthy discussion of alternative
    long distance services and their prices.
    
    Press <SELECT> for you know what...
    
    -al

                If I understand what you said correctly, the two noisy
        jacks (you did try phones that sounded ok in the clean jacks in
        the noisy ones and still found the noise?) have to be wired
        after the clean one. The only thing to try is to check that
        *ALL* the connections are clean and tight! Look into each of the
        jacks, and at any splices that might be around. I suspect that
        you will find one spot that will clean up all the noise. BTW -
        If you are in doubt about a connection, it is much less effort
        to "repair" it, than to find that it was that one all along!
                
                /s/     Bob

    	..and remember you are only choosing your _default_ network,
    you can still access the others.

    Personal experience:  I live in Nashua.  I had Sprint for about a week.
    The number of circuit busy singals was SOOO high, and the quality
    of the lines SOOO bad when I DID manage to get through, I dropped
    them like a flash!  I'm back to good ol' AT&T.  "More expensive,
    but WORTH it"...

    Personal experience:  I have a Sprint account which I mainly use
    away from home to avoid the $1.05 AT&T credit card charge.  Now
    to avoid the credit card surcharge you have to access the system
    not using the 800 number.  I have very few complaints about the
    calls I have made from MA, PA, SD, WA, NY.  Twice I have made a
    calls from Marlboro MA to Allentown PA where the other party could
    not hear me.  I called SPRINT and got credit and made the call again
    and it worked ok.  Since the US Telecom Sprint merger at least on
    some of the circuits where they are using fiber optics the calls
    are EXTREMELY clear.  I have had connection problems with AT&T,
    MCI, SPRINT so I just call on which everone is offering the cheaper
    rates.  For 1+ in my house I chose MCI because they had the cheapest
    rates at the time I had to pick.  I haven't got the rate charts
    for the 1-Jun-86 AT&T, 1-Jul-86 MCI, or 1-Aug-86 SPRINT.  AT&T really
    bugs me because when you call up and want the milage band chart
    they can be a real pain to extract it from them.  Twice now I have
    called and the operator said I have it in front of me but I can't
    send it to you and then they proceed to give me some FCC number
    in DC that I could call and the tariff.  The other 2 companies will
    gladly mail the info.  Now there is a way to extract the info from
    AT&T - you just figure out a city in each milage band and then ask
    them how much the call to those different cities would be.  The
    other thing that bugs me about the rates that AT&T quote are truncated
    rates. IE: If it is 12.6 cents they tell you it is 12 cents.

    
    I guess my REAL question is this: I've isolated my problem to 
    somewhere between where the wires disappear into the wall, and the
    jacks. How do I troubleshoot/fix all that hidden wire?
    
    Stu

    re: .2
    
    Even as I type this (on a VT100 connected to a DF03 via phone to
    Worcester's TYMNET to TSN to a MICOM through a LAT to JOET::) I'm
    considering the same problem because I get disconnected every 10
    minutes or so.
    
    What I plan to do is to locate each circuit, find both ends of each
    wire, disconnect it at the jack, twist/tape new 4 conductor (about
    $10.50/100 ft at Radio Shack) to the end and pull the new wire through
    to the basement.  I'll make sure that the new connections for each
    circuit are clean (maybe put some Cramolin (see the AUDIO conference
    for details) on them, and make sure that the polarity is correct. 
    
    There's nothing else that a person can do.  Once it leaves your house,
    it's a crap shoot.
    
    -joet

    Mile between offices are determined by the use of a VH Grid. If
    you can get the VH values for your city and the city you want to
    call you can use the program below to tell you the number of 
    "telephone" miles between cities. I use the word "telephone" because
    you'll be surprized at the difference from actual mileage.

    Ed    
    
10	input "V1 "; v1%
	input "H1 "; h1%
	input "V2 "; v2%
	input "H2 "; h2%

	v% = (v2%-v1%)**2%
	h% = (h2%-h1%)**2%

	r% = (v%+h%)/10%

	print
	print "Milage = "; Sqr(r%)
	print

	end

    reL .-1
    
    
    Not so fast.  Once it leaves you house it isn't a crap shoot, but
    it's the phone companys problem.  The modems that we make (DF03,
    112 etc) are made to work on a "normal voice grade line"
    
    Now if you talk to the phone company, they'll tell you that you
    are full of shit, but they have to give you a noise-free voice grade
    line, thus your modem should work.  I went through this problem
    when I lived in Waltham last year.    when it finally got down to
    it, the problem was a mis-wired cable that they had to dig up and
    fix.  (the cable was mis-wired so that it went from waltham center,
    down to watertown center, back to Waltham and then to my house!)
    
    
    Check out my notes in the MODEMS conference.  Most of all, scream
    LOUD at your phone company, you will finally get results (also refuse
    to pay the bill until they fix it)
    
    
    
    good luck
    -bill

    While I DO agree that you should bang your phone company soundly
    on the skull to get a "good" line, note that there's no such thing
    as a noise FREE line.  On a voice grade line, with a Bell 201
    equivalent modem, you're guaranteed an error rate of about 1 bit
    error per 100,000 bits transmitted.  The error come in bursts, though,
    and a burst of 1000 error bits is not all that uncommon.

    There are standard methods for measuring the noise on a telephone
    line, and the phone company can perform these tests very easily.
    See if they'll perform a C-Notched noise measurement on your line
    (they apply a signal on one end, and measure the amount of noise
    on the receiving end after filtering the signal out).
    
    So, yes -- Make them give you an acceptable line.  But, remember,
    all lines have SOME noise.

For those who may be confused about dividing by 10, the reason is that one of 
the co-ordinates in the V&H (vertical and horizontal) table are stored in tenths
of miles and need to be converted back to miles to make the calculations work.

For anyone who may have access to P/FM on their system, the entire V&H table for
north america is available on the system and one can easily do a direct lookup
to find anything they want.  As an aside, there are about 50,000 unique entries
for North America.

-mark

	> For those who may be confused about dividing by 10, the reason
	> is that one of the co-ordinates in the V&H (vertical and
    	> horizontal) table are stored in tenths of miles and need to be 
    	> converted back to miles to make the calculations work.
    
    hmm, it seems that the program in reply .4 implies that the V&H
    numbers are in units of .316 miles (actually 1/sqrt(10)).
    
    Oh, never mind....

    Not to drag this off on a tangent, but....
    
    Are you really ALLOWED to use your home phone for data?  I seem
    to remember a conversation that said that you had to pay extra for
    a business line and all lines used for datacomm were implicitly
    business lines.
    
    If this were true, wouldn't bitching about your modem not working
    at 1200 baud be asking for trouble?
    
    -joet

    No, you ARE allowed to use your home line for data.  In fact, you're
    even allowed to use your home line for BUSINESS, so long as the
    line is used >50% for non-commercial, residential use.

    Yes, you are allowed to use your home line for data.  In fact, you
    CAN'T BUY a data line for your home.
    
    
    The Telco has two offices.  The 'business' office, that takes care
    of business, and the 'residential' office that takes care of
    homeowners.  The business people know all about leased lines, and
    stuff like that, the residential office knows nothing about modems,
    and the like.  (this is a growing problem by the way, and the folks
    that I talked to say that this HAS to change soon)  Anyway, as soon
    as you say "modem" the residential people tell you to call the business
    people, but when you tell the business people that you are putting
    this stuff in your house, they tell you that the residential people
    have to handle it.  (and it goes back and forth)
    
    
    In my case, they eventually solved  the problem.  They did some
    kind of frequency vs attenuation test and wondered how the test
    came out 'so bad' cause I was only two blocks from the switching
    office.   (as it turned out, the cable went about 10 miles)  After
    that, they fixed the problem and everything was fine (till I moved)
    
    
    
    -bill

    Well, you can sort of "buy" a data line for your residential service.
    
    You can order a RJ45S connection rather than the default
    RJ11 (? -I forget).  This makes the service person perform some
    central office (CO) -to- residence   level adjustments.
    
    As a side effect, if you are connected to your office thru a
    multiplexor (sometimes called a "pair gain") the testing required
    to install the RJ45S may require moving the line to an all copper run
    to the CO.
    
    All this for about $45 (1985).  Oh, you also get a cute small grey
    box mounted on your wall.
    
    __Rich

    re .9 - could you please elaborate a little more on the distinctions
    between RJ45S and RJ11?  Also, where would such information as the
    availability and nature of such different services be ascertained?
    
    Since I'm about to get the temporary service to my new house replaced
    with the permanent service, and I'm worried about line quality for
    working from home via a dialup, this might be useful for me to know.
    
    Thnaks.
    

From the "Micom DialNet 3000 Data Modem User's Manual":

"To obtain optimum performance from the modem, it is recommended that the
Programmed arrangement be used.  The Programmed arrangement is provided by
an RJ45S data jack or RJ41S universal data jack set to the PROG mode.  When
this arrangement is used, the output signal level from the modem is set
within the range of 0 to -12 dBm by a level-setting resistor in the data
jack.  The value selected for the resistor is based on loop loss
measurements performed by the telephone company.  The modem's output signal
level is set automatically when it is plugged into the data jack."

In other words, it just has a resitor to tell the modem what the line loss
is, so that the modem can adjust its output signal accordingly.  It says
nothing about line quality (i.e., noise level).  Of course, your modem has
to be able to utilize this programming resistor.

    This might be off the subject a little.
    I've had 3 DF03's break in the last 3 months during lightening
    storms.  Most recently, I had it unpluged, but still hooked up
    to the phone line.  Anyone know why this happens or if I really
    have to unplug it from the phone line every time there's a storm?
    

re: .12 lightning

A pointer:
The Satelite conference has a topic about this.

    Ok.  Thanks.
    

    LOng Distance.... It's a gamble no matter how you look at it.
    
    I use ATT as my default carrier. SHirley Mass does not have DIAL-1
    access yet. I use MCI and USSPRINT for my alternatives.
    
    Some casual observations:
        
    	1. ATT provides hassle-free connections. Highest Cost.
    		DIAL-1	(for me anyway)
    		Others can use 1-0-ATT for access to network.
    		Very good, but not perfect, sound quality.
    		International access and sound is by far the best available.

        
    	2. MCI is backed by IBM and as such has lot's of money to
    		put into the network. Lot's planned. Lower cost.
    		ACCESS is via TOLL-FREE 950-xxxx number (for me)
    		Other can use DIAL-1 or 1-0-444 for access to their lines, but
    			are required to have an account with MCI
    		Crystal Clear in general. A few static problems.
    
    	3. US SPRINT is in process of installing 100% fibre-optic
    		23,000 Mile network. Lower cost. (About line MCI)
    		ACCESS is via TOLL-FREE 950-xxxx number (For me)
    		Others can use DIAL-1 or 1-0-777 for access to their lines.
    		Sometimes circuit busy problems, sound echos.

    	4. New England Tel, yes I believe that calling within the
    		LATA served by N.E.T. actually is cost competitive
    		with the others. They serve 617/413/603 along with others
    		so calling within this state and New Hampshire is
    		EXTREMELY FAST and noise free using them.
    		Long Distance outside LATA- Not available.
    

    Bottom line: Choose a default carrier that serves MOST of your needs.
    		Open an account with one or two other carriers for
    			special needs (Travel cards, lower cost, sound
    			quality, etc)
    
    		USE THEM ALL!

    I believe the number for MCI is 1-0-222 rather than 1-0-444.  At
    least it was a few months ago when I was accessing MCI that way.

    I think you are right. My mistake.

>    		They serve 617/413/603 along with others
>    		so calling within this state and New Hampshire is
>    		EXTREMELY FAST and noise free using them.

Note that thought NEtel serves these three area codes, they are in three 
different LATA's (I can get the LATA numbers for you if you like).  The point
is that any inter-LATA call will be served by your long distance carrier (AT&T,
MCI, SPRINT, etc.) and NOT NEtel.

-mark

    back to the original question - I recently (within the past month or
    so) was faced with the same choice - I decided that since MCI had
    originally busted AT&T's monoply I'd give them the little business we
    have remaining on that number (since I'm moving from MA to NH in a few
    weeks I know it will not be long before I have to get new service
    anyway).
    
    anyway, starting the day we cut over I have consistently had much
    less than 50% acceptable connection quality - often the other party
    is totally unintelligible, it's gotten to the point where if I can
    understand them at all it's better to suffer than to risk worse
    by trying again.  
    
    This is on calls from Bedford MA to NH, NJ, PA - seems very consistent
    to all destinations.
    
    For the new location I'm pretty much inclined to go with ATT - expense
    must be considered as one of the components of value, quality is
    another....

    re .12
    	I had the same type of quality service described by you just
    after switching over from AT&T to MCI.  Called their complaint number
    and told them what was happening.  My service cleared up the next
    day.  If you complain immediately after having a bad connection,
    my experience with MCI is, if it is their line, my service is restored
    to as good as I had with AT&T within 1 hour.  Since they are #2,
    they try harder to service my problems quicker, at least it seems
    that way to me.  I had problems with the main trunk line from my
    house to the box (Mountain Bells Line).  Got service 5 days after
    the complaint.  My in-laws live in Pa.  Often we try to call them
    and get poor connections.  If I call the MCI number, I have NEVER
    been wrongly charged for one of the calls.  In all of the cases
    except for the problem with the trunk line to my house, the problem
    with the connection has been AT&T on the in-laws end.  Just my
    observations after 2 years with MCI.

    I've had MCI 'dial-1' service now (in Nashua, NH) for over a year and
    have had little trouble from them - no worse (for the most part) than
    AT&T.  Once in a while I will get a noisy line, but the average seems
    at least as good as if not better than AT&T's. I had noticed, once in a
    while that calls to certain parts of the country at certain times of
    day were bad, but not lately. One complaint I do have about MCI is
    their "Calling Card".  If you want to use some other long distance
    phone company from a New England Telephone payphone, you call that
    LDC's access number and access their computer to make your call.  The
    problem I have with MCI, is that I think they have one line to the
    computer, because 99 times out of 100 that I try (well, 24 out of 25
    some times 25 out of 25) it is busy.  MCI keeps telling us how
    wonderful their calling card is, but it's not worth anything to me if I
    can't access it. 
    
    I have been trying Sprint using the 10777+1 number and find them
    much worse (noise wise) than MCI.
                            
    -Bob

    I don,t know if this is the proper note for this..it seems like
    it would be so here goes...
    
    In the course of making extra $$$ for replacing blades,hardware
    etc I have taken on whatever woodworking projects people have
    asked me to do. The highpoint project last year was to rebuild
    a one horse buggy..job done-cash in hand=pleased customer. This
    years highpoint is a AT&T wooden telephone booth. For those of you
    who have an interest in getting one of these but were cautionary
    of what you would find under all that stain and "scuzz" rest assured
    they can be made to look like new. The stock is maple and will sand
    down to look like a piece of furniture. The door frame is 6/4 solid
    maple and the sides are 3/4 maple even the seat is maple! Sanding
    the stain takes a high grade paper (carbide??) Joinery is tight
    with the two units I've seen and door willgo back on without
    shimming,hassle. Well now that I've bored everyone I,ll sign off.
    
    adeu
    Canuck         
    

    re: > For those of you who have an interest in getting one of these...
    
        Canuck, yes I have an interest in getting one of these, Where?
    
    MArk
    

     
    The customer should be coming by this weekend I'll ask him and get
    back to you. If your in the Merrimack/nashua area stop in and take
    a look the damm things are really impressive looking once they
    are cleaned up.
    
    canuck
    

    I am also interested in getting one to refinish.  Let us know what
    you find out.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Carl

    Years ago my wife and I traveled to the "American House Wrecking"
    company (guessing on the name but I think it's close) in Stamford,
    CT (1/2 hour from NYC).  They tear down buildings and save windows,
    doors, knobs, bannisters, anything they can save, and spread it
    out on many acres.  I do remember that there were oak ice chests,
    telephone booths, wagons, you-name-it.
    
    It was really worth the trip.
    
    Pete

    I've got the old phone booth but have been looking for the phone
    for two years.  Where do I pick up a working pay phone?  By working
    I mean to use as a personal phone, not interested in the cash box.
    Please don't point me to (insert finger down throat) cheapo plastic
    replicas.

    
    From what a friend of my told me (he's a EE at AT&T) the pay phone
    can't work on you stardard house phone jack. The switching station
    has to make some changes to your line in order to accomidate the
    phone. It will work however if you take out or disconnect the coinslot
    unit. 
    
    I've seen some old phones at some antique places and auction. You
    may want to try with them.
    
    Mike

    If you're in the Nashua area, you might try that little antique
    store that's across DW Highway (old rt. 3) from the Sanders military
    'plant' or whatever it is in Merrimack. Unfortunately I don't remember
    the place's name, but they had a couple of old phones on display
    there last summer. Even if they don't have any right now, they might
    know where you can find one. 

    --bonnie
    

    The name of the place is 'All Done Over'.

>    Any ideas? Anyone seen anything like this before? 

    I've had a telephone answering machine and 3 modems burned out by
    surges thru the phone lines during electrical storms.  They weren't
    big storms.  The phone company came out to check that the phone
    line was grounded before entering the house and it was so they 
    said it couldn't have come thru the phone line.  But obviously,
    it did.  Have you noticed this happening during lightening?

    I find it hard to believe that the phone company says that they
    only put out a max of 40 volts.  Last time I played with a phone
    line, the ring signal was something like 100 volts at 10 or 20 hz.
    
    
    I'd check the ground coming into the house (it's probably connected
    to some kind of cold water pipe or a ground spike outside)  Also,
    see if you can find where the closest distribution box is (do you
    have poles?) and see if the ground is still connected for that.
    (they used to have wires/stakes at the base of the pole)
    
    
    
    It sounds to me like the phone co has a problem.  Wiring CAN'T cause
    spikes, it has to come from the outside.  Bitch, moan and threaten
    not to pay the bill unless they have someone really check this out.
    
    
    -bill

    Inside the box described in -1 there are carbon elements that could
    be bad and in need of replacement. They are like a small spark gap
    used to drain static and surges. This box should be grounded as
    close as possible. The elements look like nuts and can be removed
    for inspection. Check them to see if the are burned it may help
    you determine if the surge is coming down the line.
    
    -j
    

I also lived in boylston, and had a panasonic phone mysteriously blown
away a few times. - could it be due to the fact that boylston still
has a circa 1930 machincal stepper CX? 

    the phone company specs are 48 volts.  with a plus of minus of 8
    volts.  If you are getting 100 volts then I would disconnect the
    line after it leaves to box going into the house and check both
    sides.  sounds like you have got some else on the line if it is
    100 volts.  and no the mechincal stepper does no affect the voltage
    to the house.
    
    We had a lighting arristor (coil) the the box short out once and
    blow up a phone so if you have to ask them to change it anyway.
    
    Also a real bug is when you get your floors cleaned and the mosture
    makes the contacts and shorts out the phone at the jack some of
    these newer phone do not like that.  Usually this happens a day
    or two after so you do not put the two togeather.

    Once upon a time they built phones out of iron, wire and
    other fairly durable materials.  These phones were built
    to last 40 years and most often did last 40 years.
    
    These days most phones are electronic, they are loaded with
    IC's and other semiconductors.  If you read the application
    data for such devices, you will note clear disclaimers that
    these high tech devices can not handle over stress as well
    as the old "iron".
    
    Such is life, the phone company probably isn't any worse than in
    the past, the phones are worse if they are measured from a
    failure under stress perspective. 
    
    - gerry

    The telephone company. A perfect example of a working system that
    was changed for the sake of change. With negative results!
    
    -j
    

    The old exchanges were built for use with electro-mechanical phones.
    Controlling voltage spikes wasn't important for those sets. As you
    have observed, transistorized phones don't like the spikes.
    
    I'd first check that the connecting block outside your house is
    properly grounded. Grounding to a cold water pipe may not be adequate
    if you have PVC pipe going out to a well. It should be grounded
    to a grounding rod immediately adjacent to the connecting block.
    
    Another solution may be a phone line spike protector. Radio Shack
    sells one for $12.95.
    
    - Rich

    Bruce, save your money and get two Metal Oxide Variactors [MVO].
    They are biased to conduct spikes up to serval KV's. Just connect
    each MVO from either line to ground. Works great! The little MVO
    looks like orange disk capacitors.
    
    /cal hoe

    re: .12
    
    I believe that Meatl Oxide Varwhateveritis translates into MOV,
    not MVO.
    
    -joet

    More bad Phones in Boylston
    
    Last year one of our electronic phones also died in Boylston.
    It was a cheapy and several years old, so I didn't worry about
    it. But the phones do ring when there is lightning. So that is
    what happened to that phone. 
    
    Also, the AC power lines have surged rather strongly,( 110 to 150)
    last winter.                
    
    Good luck with Boylston
    Regards
    Richard Chase
    

    Whenever you have outside phone wires (i.e., along the poles), you
    have surge pickup.  There are two kinds of surge protectors available.
    Carbon ones (cheaper) work okay for a while but do wear out.  Gas
    tubes (costlier) work okay forever.  These get rid of the 400+V
    surges which fry anything.  I suspect the NET protectors use carbon,
    since this is a low-lightning area (compared to, say, Florida),
    but they might have gone west.
    
    Newfangled phones are crappy to begin with, as per the previous
    notes.  I go with ITT (now Corinth Telecommunications since the
    ITT breakup :-) ) since they use REAL BELLS in their domestic phones
    (from Corinth, Miss.).  I avoid imports like the plague.  AT&T now
    sells Singaporean garbage.  Comdial has some nice phones too (from
    Virginia, not imports).
    
    If it won't pass the Mill Stress Test, it shouldn't be expected
    to work in the Real World of long voltage-pickup antennas (i.e.,
    aerial wires).  FCC approved or no.
          fred (moderator, DELNI::PBX)

ps.  Don't blame the "breakup of the phone company" for this.  Crappy
    manufacturing is a result of consumer tolerance of it.  Monopoly
    would't help.  Buying the good stuff and stuffing the crap would.
    (And btw, the market agrees:  sales of disposable phones are down.)    

    This weekend I found out I'm having phone problems.
    
    Before I go further, here's a map of the 'network'. Note that it's
    worked for years this way....
    
    
    outside |
    ------->|----J1------->(answering machine)--->(phone 1)
            |    |
                 |
                 |
                 |
                 v
   phone 2<-----box----->phone 3
                 |
                 |
                 v
               phone 4
    
    (I have no idea as to whether this is up to 'code' or not. I didn't
    install it.) All phones are located inside.
    
    Here's the problem. Outgoing calls are always successfull. Incoming
    calls are sometimes successfull. After speaking with people who
    tried to call me this weekend (and running to a pay phone to call
    myself), it appears the unsuccessfull calls have the following
    scenario...
    
               1. The person making the call hears the phone ringing.
               2. After the 4th ring, the answering machine starts,
                  but the level is low AND the caller still hears the
                  ringing signal. The answering machine always ceases
                  to be heard at the same point, 1 sentence into it's
                  speach.
               3. The phone does NOT ring in the house, but I do hear
                  the transport on the machine activating.
               4. Some (maybe 25%) of the calls come through normally.
    
    I tried it again this morning. The first call to home was fine,
    the second one failed as described, and the third was OK.
    
    Any ideas? 
    
    When I was younger, I remember a phone number you could call to
    make your own phone ring. Is this still in existance?
    
    Thanks for any help.
    
    Edd Cote                                                          
               

Sounds like some change to the telephone company's end changed the amount of
load that your telephone line will handle.

The solution; get rid of a phone...

Jim. 

    Oh, I forgot to mention, in troubleshooting this myself I disconnected
    all the phones except one. No change, regardless of which phone
    was left in the circuit.
    
    Edd

    This is obvious, but did you try disconnecting the answering machine?

                   
    
    Uh, no I didn't, but the reason is not because it didn't occur to
    me...
    
    ... since the phone appears (to the calling party) to be ringing,
    disconnecting it would only work if I could get someone to call
    me a few dozen times in a row while I was home. Most of my friends
    are a long-distance call away.
    
    The fact that only a portion of the tape is played to the caller
    (at low volume) points to the machine, but why would none of the
    phones ring in the house???
    
    'member how nice it used to be when *they* owned the phones????
    :^)
    
    Edd

Sounds like one of you phones or the answerer has a broken ringer.

The phone company puts our a specific voltage and a limited amperage on
the ring signal. If a ringer develops a much lower resistance than it once
had - by having its coils short, or by having your answering machine's
ring indicate relay (usually these are literally relays to ensure proper
isolation from the phone line as required by the FCC) develop a short of
some kind, then there won't be enough power in the ring signal to move the
ringers on your phones.

About the only way to diagnose this would be to call a friend and have them
call you back and KEEP RINGING. You unplug ALL your phones but one. If it
rings, plug in the next one, etc.

I'd suspect the answering machine. Most phones have almost indestructible
ringers.

Dennis

I think there is a high resistance connection somewhere between the 
telephone office and the point where the wires connect to the first phone. 
The symptoms you describe are exactly what would apeen if a high 
resistance was placed in series with the line (don't ask how I know).  I'd 
suspect a dirty or loose connection somewhere where the wires enter your 
house, or perhaps at one of your phones.  If you can't find anything, it's 
likely to be a phone company problem.  You'll have to bug them quite a bit 
to do anything about it.  

p.s.  I saw this exact problem in the Newburyport area about 2 years ago. 
The phone company finally ran a new line to the house.


...bill

    Check your ground wire - the one that really goes into the ground.
    
    Disconnected ground will cause the caller to hear the ring but the
    bell will not go in the phone. (least it  used to work that way!)
    
    /tb/
    

    Tonight I plan to (a) check ground, although I did pull the box
    outside the house apart yesterday and all looked copastetic, and
    (b) disconnect phones 2, 3 and 4 from J1, leaving only phone 1
    and the machine on the circuit. If all works well, then that'll
    tell me where the problem isn't. If the symptoms remain the same,
    then I'll have to have a friend call me whilst I play with the 
    machine and phone 1.
    
    Edd

    I disconnected all but the machine and phone 1 last night. So far,
    everything appears to be working OK. (Of course, Murphy's Law dictated
    that last night no-one would call.)
    
    Now we start hooking it all back together, 1 line at a time.
    
    Edd

    Don't you have neighbors?  My neighbors are invaluable in cases
    of debugging, and they should be only a local call away.  In my
    case they are also neighborhood history.  Since the houses are about
    the same age, they are often working on similar problems.  Ask them
    to give you a call!  You might get more than a call, you may just
    find your solution!
    
    Elaine
    

    
    i went through a situation yesterday with a phone connected to an
    AT&T answering machine..... phone would ring, but not activate the
    answering machine.   Also, pushing buttons to make a call would
    do nothing!  I took the phone to the phone center, swapped it for
    another (tested it there!) hooked it up at home with the same problem.
     ANyway, i finally called the 800 number for service, and was told
    to change the polarity of the phone line.  I swapped the red and
    green wires in the outlet, and all was fine.  I was told be the
    service people that the reversed polarity causes all types of strange
    symptoms.  Don't quite know why they're having these problems all
    of a sudden, but they've been getting alot of calls from people
    who start having problems creep up lately.
    
    You might want to give it a try!
    
    ed.
    

    	My In-laws had a problem when they tried to hook-up an answering
    machine and a chepo phone with the phones not ringing or only one
    phone ringing. Turns out that they had a party line from way back
    which required the use of special AT&T only equipment. Apparently
    on a party line each party uses opposite polarity or some strange
    thing. The problem went away as soon they swithed over to a private
    line and it was takken care of at the office.
    
    				Just a thought...
    						...Dave
    

    Well, I must admit you folks have come up with lots of interesting
    ideas! But remember, the current network has worked for years with
    it's present topology. 
    
    I've called home enough times today (100% success) to have complete
    faith the answering machine is healthy. Now I just have to figure
    out which phone is sick.
    
    Edd

One thing you seem to be failing to consider is that although *your* part of the
network has not changed, except possibly by equipment failure; the phone
company's network *may* have changed.  They don't call you up to tell you every
time they switch somestuff around.  They may also have some equipment
failure/degradation.

Jim. 

    Oh yeah, I've thought about that. I want to be damn sure it's *their*
    problem before I call it in though. I've seen too many intermittant
    failures get bounced around because nobody will believe it could
    possibly be THEIR problem...
    
    "Must be a software problem... Transfer it."
    
    Edd

    I in fact had a similar problem a few weeks ago. I had two phones.
    I could make any call I wanted to but when someone called me the
    phone just made a sick noise. If you were within 2 feet you could
    hear it pick it up and talk to whoever was there. The caller did
    not hear any ring. So, I called the phone company and they came
    out free of charge to check the line to the house. At this time
    he installed a new box on the outside of the house. He told me that
    the line to the house was OK. He also told me they would troubleshoot
    the inside for 50+ an hour. I declined the offer. At the same time
    he told me of a new service offered by the company where for .90
    a month you can get a service contract which will conver all the
    inside wiring but not the phones.
       Anyway I started by removing one phone and surprise everything
    worked fine. I trashed the bad phone and everything has worked fine
    since.
    
    
    Dick
    

    FCC registration rules require every device to have a Ringer
    Equivalence Number.  A Plain Black Phone of olde vintage is the
    reference "1", which refers to the load on the line.  A single-party
    line is supposed to allow up to a total of 5 ringer-equivalences.
    (Party lines are special and should NOT be plugged-into!)
    
    If an answering machine OR a telephone set has a failure mode where
    its ringer or ring detector draws too much current, you'll go beyond
    "5" pretty quickly.  It's also possible that the local loop serving
    your house has a higher than normal resistance so it fails below
    5.  It's also possible that cheapie phones won't ring when the load
    is below 5 but above 2 or so.  Since answering machines don't have
    real ringers, they can detect voltages that aren't quite high enough
    to make some phones ring.
    
    If  you live near (within 2 miles of) the telephone company's central
    office (or neighborhood line terminal, not common in NE but the
    norm in some areas), you shouldn't  have a problem.  If you're in
    the sticks, the phone company's line might be, uh, "marginal" and
    if you can prove that it doesn't deliver enough ring, they may fix
    it.  You can also buy a ring regenerator relay but that's getting
    into hardware.

    Cheap phones break often in a mode which may raise their effective
    ringer equivalence.  Personally I stick to mechanical ringers. 
    We used to call them "bells".  :-)  Tweets are for birds.
        fred (professional phone hacker, NaC)

    As I said I was going to, I disconnected the lines to phones 2,
    3 and 4 by pulling the lines at J1, leaving only phone 1 and the
    machine up. Everything worked fine.
    
    After a week of living with the little tweety-phone, I connected
    everything back up as before to see if the problem came back.
    It didn't. It's been almost a week now and the phones are all working
    just fine. I don't know if I'm happy about this. I never got to
    find out what the problem was!!!!!
    
    Edd

    Another phone note.
    
    Any ideas about what to do for a dirty line-sounds fine for voice,
    but it's virtually impossible to work from home.

    You:	Hello, phone company?
    Ma Bell:	Yes.
    
    You:	I seem to be having a lot of noise on my phone line.
    		Can you help me?
    Ma Bell:	I can hear you fine.  Can you hear me?
    
    You:	Yes, I hear you fine, but...
    Ma Bell:	Well if I can hear you and you can hear me then
    		everything's OK.  Have a nice day!

    Call the phone company and complain about the quality of the line.

    I had a "dirty" line for a awhile, periodic static on the line, not
    enough to really disrupt a conversation between people, but between
    terminals and computers, well you know what happens there. The phone
    company tried several ties to fix it and finally did by switching
    my line to a new twisted pair in the cable. 

    Charly

    
    
    
    	They were right in telling you everything was fine when they
    said they could here you. If you tell them it's for your computer
    they will tell you to get a special computer line installed for
    an EXTRA cost !!!
    
    	-Steve-
    

    re. 23
    
    Yes, be careful about what you tell them. I don't know if it's still
    true or ever was for that mater, but.... I know a guy that called to
    order a second line for his house. He inadvertently mentioned to the
    phone company that it was for a modem to talk to the computer at work.
    When the phone company heard that, they said well that's different then
    a second line at the house, you want a business line (more $$$$$) since
    you will be using it for business purposes. This guy said, "never
    mind", canceled the order and called back several weeks later to
    do it "right".
    
    When I had my noisy line fixed, I never mentioned I was having problems
    with a modem, just that the line was bad from time to time, I kept on
    complaining after each of their attempts to check it out that they
    finally did something right and fixed it. 

    Charly

    I just found out the hard way that one bad phone (or connection)
    can cause all phones to go dead.  It's similar to some of the problems
    here but I thought I would add that all three of my lines were dead
    and it turned out the problem was one phone (cheapo brand, of course)
    was making a bad connection and grounding out the whole system.
    The symptom made it appear that the problem was outside the house.
                                                          
    It's been aluded to in a few places in this note but I thought it bears
    repeating that in the event you experience *any* telephone system
    problems, no matter how obvious the problem might appear to be, check
    the phones first and save some aggravation and expense. 

    By the way, the repair person installed something he called a network
    thingamajig (isolator?) at the entry point into the house and it
    allows me to isolate if the problem is in the house or outside by
    disconnecting the house line and connecting a working phone up to
    this thing, which goes right out to the street.  It appears that
    this is standard.  They install it so that next time they can save
    some calls and so they can charge you next time you call them out.  

It's New Year's Eve, traditionally a time of looking back.  I started 
with this sentiment yesterday, after reading note 1835.  No offense 
intended to that party, or his very serious problem, but I laughed 
hysterically when I read his note because of what it triggered me to 
think of.

>>  My wife just called and said the bedroom ceiling is leaking along the 
    outside wall. 

Now how many times have you been sitting at work, having a good day, 
and the phone rings.  It usually starts off "hi honey," and then the 
next sentence is the bomb dropping.  How many times have you done the 
same thing to your spouse, roommate, etc.

A few of my classics:

Aug 1986 we were moving into our new condo - first purchase.  We had a
pullout couch going into the second bedroom.  So we pick all the
colors and paint the place before we move in.  I had a slipcover made
for the couch and made all of the curtains myself.  We were thrilled
with how our colors went and how nice we were sure the place would
look.  I went to work and Pat stayed home with the movers.  I get a
phone call about 11:00, "It won't fit around the stairs and into the
bedroom".  "What do you mean, it won't fit, IT HAS TO FIT".  Well it
didn't, and it ended up in the living room.  Luckily, the colors went
together.  But when I heard that on the phone, I had visions of the
couch on the back porch.  When we moved into our house in Aug 1987, I
stayed home too. 


Speaking of the house.   Dec 3rd, I bet none of you remember how cold 
it was.  I get home from work, I am already late for night school but 
I stop in to grab something to eat in the car.  As I put the key in 
the door, the phone is ringing.  It is our 75 year old tenant saying 
that she has had no heat since 4:00 AM.  I run downstairs, the boiler 
had gone dry and shut itself off.  Ok, so we're new with steam heat, 
and besides, we have forced hot water.  I fill it back up and go 
upstairs to sit with her until it comes up.  She's wrapped in two 
housecoats and a sweater, three pairs of socks, slippers, and mittens 
(her apt is usually 82 deg.).  We're sitting at the table, I'm 
apologizing profusely.  She reaches over and slides a check over to 
me, her hands still shaking, saying "here's the rent check".  At that 
very moment in time, I wanted to turn into an ant and crawl through 
the floor back into our apartment.  I had a dream that night that she 
called the no-heat hot line and they came and arrested me at work.


This past Tue night, Pat and I get home very late.  He says it's cold.
I said that the thermostat already set back for the night, we're just
usually in bed by now.  Ever woke up, rolled over to say good morning,
and saw your breath?  That's how it was yesterday, and you know how
cold it was out.  Ok, get up, grab the closest warm thing and put it
on.  He goes down and lights the pilot - but why did it go off?  We
have no idea but the heat came up and we both went to work.  I run
home at lunch to find the dog with all four paws crossed, shivering. 
Make one of THOSE phone calls to Pat.  He says "the thermal coupler
must be gone, call the plumber and see if he can fix it"  I call the
plumber, explain the problem, and he says, "the thermal coupler must
be gone, call COMgas".   The receptionist at COMgas probably could
have told me the thermal coupler was gone - but could she fix it.   I
saw Santa Clause last night.  He arrived at 7:30, dressed in blue
pants, and a black coat.  He drives a COMgas van and came bearing a
tool box and a new thermal coupler. 


In between when I logged the call to COMgas, and when I left work to
see what I could cook in the oven, I received a call from a contractor
for a bid.  We thought it would come in the 2000 - 2500 range, he said
4300.

It was right about then when I read note 1835 and just laughed.  


Putting it all into perspective, I would rather receive any number
of those house-problem calls that one saying "hi hon, I was in an
accident"  or "one of the kids is hurt".   But when you hang up from 
one of those, you usually wish you had been at an all day off-site.

So, what are some of your best phone-call-that-ruined-your-day 
stories?

Happy New Year !!

Karen

    I'm sitting at work at the wife calls to say that there is no water.
    (She meant that it was really low. Amazing how we (practically everyone
    I know) can exaggerate on a situation. This really helps phone-type
    diagnosis. :^)
    
    So it turns out that a wate pipe (which runs outdoors for about
    5') had decided to freeze and bust. Funny becuase the year before
    it had been all right. (this year I drained the line! :^) It runs
    to an outside faucet, so I just turned off the valve.

    I have never had the pleasure of making one of those calls, but
    I have received more than my share of them.  
    
    One of the most memorable was the identical situation as in 1835.
    "You had better get home quick... there's water running down the
    bedroom wall!"  Fortunately I had a ladder and an axe.  I had to
    chop through 6" to 8" of ice before I could install heating cables.
    
    Most of the calls had to do with my wife's car not starting.  This
    was a very intermittant problem which ONLY occurred when she had
    an appointment to be somewhere.  She must have known how concened
    I was, because she would call to report the latest failure even when 
    I was away on a business trip.  
    
    I even resorted to leaving my car at home on a day of a critical
    appointment...  You guessed it!  For the first and only time in
    eight years and 120,000 miles, my car wouldn't start either.
    
    Someday I'll get to make one of those calls...

Friday afternoon about 3. We are scheduled to close on our house 
Monday morniing. Wife calls to say the signed P&S for our house has 
finally arrived in the mail from the seller's atty. 

Without our knowledge, permission, or anything they have made the sale 
conditional on the addition of an easement across the property 
necessitating the removal of the garage. No wonder they waited so long 
to mail it back. 

Ever try to find a lawyer, get in to town offices of small town, 
contact real estate persons on a late Friday afternoon? While you are 
screaming? Well, it isn't easy but it can be done.

John H.

    
    
    
    Moved into house on 1-DEC- had furnace replaced on 15-DEC get HI
    HONEY phone call on 22-DEC. 
    
    The washer overflowed the frunace is making a funny noise the hot
    water ios cold the dryer isn't working any more the well pum is
    making a funny noise half the lights in the cellar are out and there
    are no blown fuses.
    
    Call the furnace guy call the electric company call an electrician.
    
    get home check all the fuses again -- they are good.
    disconect the dryer -- no help.
    disconect the water heater -- no help.
    disconect the well pump - no help.
    shut the furnace off at the emergency switch - no help.
    Furnace guy gets there and checks all his wires and switches and
    finds they are hooked up right, then he checks the voltage at the
    burner and blower and finds out there is no juice on one side of
    the burner motor. back to the fuse box and find out that one leg
    of the 220 is not there. About this time the electric co. huys show
    up and pull the meter to tell me there is only one leg of the 220
    getting through, BUT, the meter is good so it is not their problem
    because the juice is at the top of the meter and when they put in
    the jumper bar it is not at the bottom. Well after playing with
    it for a couple of minutes we notice sprks at the top connection
    and closer inspection shows that the screw terminals are loose.
    This is where I got lucky because the guy said " It is not our job
    to fix this because the co. only owns the meter not the connections
    to it but since it is so close to Xmas and it is before 4:30 we'll
    do it." Hwe loosened all the screws moved the wire around to scrape
    the oxidation off retightened all the connections and went away
    +++ NO CHARGE+++ The furnace guy put the furnace back to gether
    and it started up fine so he went away +++NO CHARGE+++ everything
    came back on normally and worked fine and even when the well pump
    kicked in there was no flicker in the lights.  Apparently either
    old age or vibration from traffic on the road or whatever had caused
    that screw to loosen up until I finally lost the contact completely.
    It could have been much worse because loose electrical connections
    have caused fires all turned out very well.
    
    BTW: The electrician called back the next afternoon and asked When
    he should come over to take care of my emergency? I laughed and
    hung up in his ear +++NO CHARGE+++
    
    

    Ever get a call that this person gets locked out of their car? We
    prepared for this by stashing a spare key on the car. Wife goes
    shopping and locks her keys in the car. I get the frantic call that
    she's late for work and she's locked the key to her PC in the car;
    she wasn't upset about being locked out of the car; she's upset
    that her folks doesn't have access to her database to generate the
    mailing labels. Can't even get a word in edge wise about the hidden
    key.
    
    Ah, you're only prepared if you don't panic.
    
    /cal

    I must admit that with both myself and my wife working during the
    day I'm not as "fortunate" as the rest of you. However I will share
    and interesting experience. I was chatting with a fellow employee
    one afternoon when he received one of "THOSE" calls. It was his
    wife informing him that a small airplane had made an unsuccessful
    attempt to land in their backyard. Fortunately he missed the house.
    
    I think he broke the world indoor track record by running the entire
    width of the NIO (Salem N.H.) plant in 10 seconds flat.

    Before I moved up to NH, I lived in upstate New York with my family
    (including a city raised wife). She was away for the weekend, so
    before I left for work, I cleaned about 8" of snow from the driveway
    so she could drive up it. Well, considering that wildlife would
    prefer a warm garage to a snow storm........
          I get a call at work from my wife about a cat in the garage
    (black with a white stripe!) that is under my workbench and won't
    come out. I gently explained that it wasn't a cat, but a skunk....
    The next part of the conversation was not too clear, but I told
    her to leave it ALONE (my car project was next to the workbench,
    with the windows down) and it would eventiually leave on its own,
    which it finally did. If she thought that I was going to try to
    chase a scared skunk out from under something (well what do you
    expect from city folks)....
                               
    Eric
    

    Funny I should be reading this today.  Called the wife to make sure
    the kids had got the trash out this morning (which they didn't)
    and as I was about to hang up, "I turned the upsatirs thermostat
    on and there's no heat".  I says "I'll be right there".
    
    Got the old woodstove cranking last night finally and the downstairs
    thermostat prbably never kicked in.  Apparently there was just enough
    gravity heat rising to keep the upstairs pipes from freezing - until
    last night.  Spent all day playing a torch on the pipes.  I finally
    realized that I had a bleeder valve halfway aroun the loop.  I opened
    that and nothing.  I had spent half the day playing the heat in
    the wrong place.  Well maybe.  That part was sure as hell cold as
    it goes through a piece of the wall on which I repaired the roof
    of (slanting portion of a small piece of a gambrel roof with fullshed
    dormer) last fall.  I neglected to put a finish piece of wood on
    the eave.  This left the pipe exposed to the weather with only 
    a thin coat of insulating tape.
    
    It wasn't one of those calls but it would have been when the water
    started coming down into the playroom after it burst.  Wasn't the
    way I had planned to spend the day!

    Here's my favorite:
    
          Last year we began construction on a family room / garage
    addition.  Because the house is not square to the street we decided
    to set the garage at an offset that would make the driveway access
    from street to garage closer to 90'.  Many, MANY, times we rewalked
    the stakes to make sure we were both happy with the offset and when
    the excavator came we were very explicit about the lines and stakes.
    Well, the excavator shows up early one morning, starts up his
    traxcavator, begins digging away, and off I go to work...... About
    2:30 I get one of "those phone calls" and my wife states that she
    thinks they dug the foundation trenches in the wrong place.  It just
    doesn't look right.   Well, I skip out from work immediately (if
    they are digging in the wrong place I want to get there ASAP) and
    arrive to find that they have excavated exactly where we told them
    to.  After checking the stakes again (under the watchful eye of
    a very understanding excavator) we resolved that this was what we
    had projected.  It's just that the real thing looked different.
    (And, quite honestly, the size of the project had us more than a
    bit nervous.) 
    
    Another quick story I'll relate happened three weeks ago and belongs
    in the classic genre:  About 11:30 at night the phone rang and a
    neighbors wife asks rather frantically if she can borrow my extension
    ladder as their new kitten is up a tree and won't come down.  My
    response was simply "Sure, it's in the garage - help youself - click".
    She did indeed send her husband over and they had the kitten down
    by midnight.  He had obviously received one of "those requests".
    

    I guess my "favorite" call these days is: "Hi honey, we just lost
    another mailbox."  We lost 3 in 1987.  For a while it was one per
    snow storm.  We seem to have broken this viscious cycle now that
    these klutzy New Englanders have re-aclimated to snow.  (I hope.
    I haven't gotten a call from today's snowstorm *yet*.)  I live on 
    the inside of a curve, but my mailbox (per US guvmint) must be on 
    the outside of the curve.  I have read with amusement the previous
    mailbox note.  I have reached the point where I have decided to
    do something come the thaw.  I haven't decided if I am going put up 
    an easily replaced mailbox or an immovable (splat - "gotcha")
    mailbox.  Since not much can stop a ton of metal moving at 30+ mph 
    I am tending toward the easy replacement idea.
    
    Stan

    Here's my favorite. I was working in Woburn, 52 miles away.
    phone rings, "we've been broken into, get home quick".
    SURE. "how do you know we were broken into" "my dresser top
    is a mess, everything on the shelf is tipped over".
    "any other signs of, broken windows, doors, other open draws"
    "no, just my dresser" "have you been thru the rest of the house"
    "yes, no one is in here, they must have come and gone"
    "ok, if you feel good about it fine, if not call the cops
    from next door, i'll leave now".
    
    I arrived at home, no other signs of anything. Nothing is missing,
    nothing anywhere. Well anyway, seems all is fine, back to normal.
    
    Next morning, i woke up at 5 a.m., to the right, in front of her
    bed is her dresser, and under one of the lights is a "baby sqirrel"
    Oh sh**, this oughta be great, how the hell am i going to get him
    out, with out waking her up. If she sees this guy, she'll go
    bezerk. You know the screaming and hollering, never mind having
    to chase the squirrel out the poor thing will have a heart attack
    just after she gets going. Well anyway, to avoid the panic,
    i rolled over quietly, put my hand over her mouth (gently)
    just in case, and woke her. You had to have been there, to
    see her expression, i said "don't get excited, but there's
    a baby squirrel under the lamp on your dresser". Well believe me
    she didn't have to scream, he sh** a brick when he became aware
    we knew he was there. I never knew those guys could haul a**
    so fast, he was all over the place, i finally got to open the 
    screen, and he found his way out, but the 5 minutes he spent
    scrambling was interesting.
    
    This is only one of the many. I opened the cellar door one
    day to go down, and i find a crow hovering about 3 feet in
    front of me. I go in the den, remember those lights your
    grandmother had, had a 3 way bulb with a glass shade that
    faced up, i turned on the 3 way light, and inside the shade
    a big black blob is inside, i peek over the top of the shade
    and find a "bat". He can't see for sh** for the 150 watt bulb
    etc. etc. etc. you got the point.
    
    jim

    I got one of those calls last November, 2 days before we were
    leaving for Florida for a vacation planned for a year.
    
    Its 2 pm Friday afternoon (I'm home packing for the trip) Tenant
    calls and says "no hot water". (four families here)
     "No problem" says I ." HOMGAS probably let the propane run out. 
    I'll be right over.
    
    I get there and find water coming out of the bottom of a 3 YEAR
    OLD hot water tank.  OH SH**. I call the plumbing supply place. 
    
    "Ain't got one" says them. "Can have one next Tuesday"
    
    "YOU GOTTA HAVE ONE" Says I "I'm leaving for Florida on Sunday"
    
    "Well" , says them "You can go to the warehouse and get it today"
    Its now 3:30 pm and its normally a 1:45 drive and they close at
    5:00.  So I get my son and we just about break the sound barrier
    to get to the warehouse. I became apparent that we were not going
    to get there in time so I stopped and called and asked them to wait
    for me to get there. CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY ACTUALLY DID. When we
    pulled up to the dock the place was dark except for 2 guys standing
    there with the tank.
    
    Next morning I took out the old tank and replaced it with the new
    one in......................45 minutes ta dahhhhh!!.
    
    The one smart move I made when installing the last one was to install
    plenty of valves and unions.  All I needed for tools to install this
    one was one wrench.
    
    Next day...off to Florida.                                 

    Sounds like you got a great idea. How about an explanation of
    what you did. I would like to use it.
    
    jim.

    Talk about funny stories.....this stuff should be in a
    book...especially liked the one with the crow in the basement and
    the bat in the light.....
    
    About five years ago were having an above ground pool installed....
    The installers are bona fide jerks and after three days of playing
    baseball with one of those plastic bats and whiffle balls in between
    getting the pool installed it looks like its going to come together.
    
    I get this call at work.....Hi hon.....the guys are putting water
    in the pool.....thats great Im thinking....I think you better come
    home........Why?......well, the bottom of the pool is full of
    wrinkles and theres three inches of water in some spots, and none
    in others.....be right there....
    
    So guys, whats with all the wrinkles.....and you know how there
    are steel bands under the pool (it was a 15x30) well, if you were
    in the pool you would trip over them.....Hey, dont worry about
    anything, the water pressure will force the wrinkles down and
    the bands will straighten out.......
    
    From there it was all downhill....talking as politely as I could
    to three guys around 22, with long hair, who were dressed like
    they lived under a bridge somewhere, I finally convinced them
    that there was a problem here.  
    
    At the time it was pure crisis..along with everything else that
    happened....but isnt it funny how when you look back at these
    situations you see the humor in them....
    
    I had an incident with a squirrel......we were hearing all this
    scratching and the dog was going nuts....finally we figured we
    had a squirrel in the basement....when I look for it naturally
    I dont see anything, but one time I walked down three steps and
    when I looked in the corner, could see the little devil.....so 
    I went down, opened the bulkhead, and figured I would chase it
    out the door....no sweat...
    
    so I have this stick, for protection, and I start to chase it
    around one side....the stupid dog scrambles down the stairs and
    now hes barking to beat the band....I finally get the squirrel
    to get on the other side of the basement....he runs along my
    workbench jumps on the floor, and has about 8 feet to get to the
    door....just when I figure hes going to make it out the dog
    starts back in, the squirrel turns toward me and jumps right
    by me.......talk about a scream....it took 20 minutes for my
    wife and kids to stop laughing hysterically....
    
    So I can relate to your squirrel encounter...
    
    Rick

I am really enjoying reading these.

Ok, I don't mean to get off of my own topic of "hi honey" calls, but
when I read .4 and the elec co doesn't own this but does own that,
etc. I thought of one.  

My senior year in college I was one of 3 live in managers of a 100 yr
old english tudor mansion for Boston college.  I was the physical
plant manager - the first female one in the history of the house. 

One of my roommates takes a shower at 9:00 and says the water pressure 
is low.  I check it out, it is low at all of the faucets.  Look out my 
bedroom window while getting dressed and see a bubbling water puddle in 
street in front of house.  AH HA !! Water main is broken.

But there are procdures to be followed.

So I call BC Campus Police (a.k.a.  BC-5-O) and explain that there is
a broken water main in the street in front of house. 

10:00 - Two BC Police cruisers, lights on, pull up, block traffic.  Shine 
flashlight on puddle and say "Yup, looks like a broken water main".  
We'll take it from here.

11:00 - One Newton police cruiser pulls up, blocks traffic.  Two 
officers huddle over puddle and say "Looks like a broken water main, 
we'll take over".

12:00 - Newton Fire department shows up, one ladder truck.  Take 
apart fire hydrant but it is dry.  Say "Yup, looks like a broken water 
main, we'll call public works".

3:00 - Public works shows up.  Comes to door says "Ma'am, looks like
you have a broken water main out there.  But it'll be dark in an hour
so we can't start to fix it now.  Have to wait till tomorrow.  You're
water pressure may be a little low until it's fixed."


My husband held the position the year before I did.  Looking back, 
we're really glad we did it.  All of the exercises in futility like 
that were just preparation for real-life.

    
    This past summer we started a family room addition. My husband,
    Jano,  called around to several forms/foundation places for quotes. 
    For most jobs someone comes out to the house, looks at the work to be 
    done and then gives you the quote. However all the foundation places
    said they didn't need to come out and could give you a price over
    the phone once you tell them the dimensions.  So I was surprised when Jano
    said someone was going to come to the house the  following day to
    check the site and give us a price.  Since Jano would be in
    work, the deal was the foundation guy would call Jano at work when
    he was leaving to come to our house and Jano would come home. 
    
    Well Jano got the phone call all right but it wasn't what he was
    expecting to hear. The foundation guy told him to hurry home because
    they were almost finished POURING the foundation and the cement
    company needed a check to pay for the 2 loads of cement they had
    already poured!! Jano flew home and sure enough there was a whole crew 
    in the yard and they had indeed poured the foundation.  Jano went absolutely
    nuts. They owner later admitted he may have misunderstood Jano
    because Jano has an accent.  Well at this point we couldn't tell
    them to take the poured cement back When he looked the job
    over Jano found they didn't put any rebar in, it was now after 3
    and the cement was "setting".  So he jumped around some more vowing
    to get everyone in the owner's family (the owner's son was the a**hole
    the messed this all up and he was standing in front of my husband
    this entire time with his head up his ...) One of the crew took control 
    and got on their cellular phone to call around find some place to
    buy the rebar.  The closest location still open was about 30 miles 
    away (they were going to keep the place open just for them to get
    the rebar).  So Jano and the worker jumped in their mother of a
    truck and drove as fast as it would go to get the rebar. In all
    the confusion, they forgot to allow for the space that had to be
    left in the cement wall for the beam to rest on so the next day when they 
    came back to remove the forms they had to cut into the now hardened
    cement. Jano reviewed what had to be done with the worker (the worker,
    by the way, told Jano not to worry because he had been in this business
    11 years and really knew what he was doing) and we went in to eat
    lunch.  After they had been drilling for a short while we looked
    out the window to see the guy with 11 years experience in the business
    drilling in the wrong spot......  In the end they did do an ok job.  
    
    All was we could think of is we were just STARTING this addition and
    our horror stories were already piling up (the week before this the
    guy that dug the site broke the water pipe that goes from the well to
    the house...)
    
    Kathy

    
    			Some of these are funny.
                        
    I was called from a meeting one day by a secretary who informed
    me that, "Your Wife is on the phone and she sounds paniky." I quickly
    get to my office and my phone. 
    "Hi, whats wrong?"
    "Can you come home?"  "No, not right now, two hours yes. What happened?"
    Well, as it turns out,  my three year old and some companions found 
    some old paint under a neighbor's porch, and proceeded to paint the the
    guys' house, deck, screen doors, and fireplace. A major mess. 
    
    Little hand prints all over the place. Little white footprints all
    over the driveway. "That's Great." i say. "Did you try to wash it
    off with the hose?" "Didn't work to good."  
    
    The neighbor was not home. They both work. They were new to the 
    neighborhood, maybe two months.  What a way to start it off.
    
    
   Steve 

    I had the very same thing happen to me not long ago.  
    
    I have lived in the same apt for 6 years.  Until a short time ago,
    I had had no phone problems.  Then every now and then friends would
    tell me they called and no-one was home.  Knowing that I had been,
    assuming they were telling fibbs...I thought nothing of it.  Then
    it kept happening, over and over,  I also noticed that when the
    phone was about to ring, one or two of them would emit a gentle
    "ping" ring noise...then all would ring fully.  (I might also add,
    I had 9 phones...including an answering machine...im my apt)  
    
    I called the phone company several times...the did a "line check"
    from the office, and stated there was nothing wrong with my
    'lines'...check my phones.  I did the repair service trip several
    times...then they asked me "are any of your phones the real CHEAP
    models...like the 1,2 or 3 dollar specials?"  In fact, 2 were. 
    They told me to get rid of those particular ones, and the problem
    should go away.
    
    It did!  Now the phones work fine...and have since I threw out the
    generic "specials".
    
    Jeremy, @ CTC

    had an experience when I was growing up on the farm.  Was a dark
    night and about 4am is when we headed out to the milking parlar
    to set up for the 5am milking.  in order to get there you had to
    pass through a gate that had a rope draped over the top of the post.
    
    Seems a Scobie duck had decided to sleep on that post on a moonless
    night.  reached up to grab the rope and got a fist full of duck.
    these thing don't quack they hiss.  we had a lively time of that.
    don't know who hissed or yelled the most.  woke everyone one up.
    
    got married to a city slicker and the first call I get a work is
    the drain is stoped up.  Sometimes men can be as bad as us womem.

    My wife and her family were all at home on a typical weekend day.
    Her mother was in the kitchen cooking and had the pleasure of spoting
    a deer running into the back yard, she watched it and was so pleased
    to see it coming closer and closer to the house.  Wait, the deer
    is not stopping, a second later the dear has leaped and crashed
    thru the large kithcen window, lands right on the kitchen table,
    stumbles into the kitchen and is frantically running and bouncing
    of the walls.  Her mother screams.  The rest of the family hears
    crashing, glass breaking, and mom screaming.  They run to the kitchen
    and dad herds the deer back over the table and out the window.
    
    Try explaining this one to the insurance company.  The local newspaper
    took a picture and captioned it "Women scared for deer life!". 
    Funny thing is it went APS across the country and we have met people
    years later who remember seeing that picture.
    
    Once in a life time natures pleasure.

        Ours happened a year ago Christmas or so.  My wife's mother had
        moved into a near-new condo over in Portsmouth, NH, about 50 miles
        from where my wife then lived in Nashua.  We were getting ready to
        go over anyway for dinner when we got the call.  There was water
        running out around the fixture in the kitchen ceiling. 
        
        Seems that the forced hot water furnace was installed in a closet
        over the kitchen, and had a relief valve that was vented into the
        closet (not into a drain).  The power had been off, and when it
        came back on, the valve let go.  Presto!  Water vented into the
        closet (straight across the room) through a 1/2" hole at street
        pressure! 
        
        Her mother's first reaction was to get a mop and try to dry up the
        spill.  When it got to where it was running down faster than she
        could mop it up, she went next door and asked her neighbor for
        help.  Fortunately, her neighbor knew where the shutoff for the
        feed from the street was located.  (Do you know how to shut off
        the feed in your house, condo, or apartment?) 
        
        Then she called us.  By the time we got there, most of what was in
        the closet had leaked down through the ceiling, but the rugs were
        soaked, there were bubbles of water under paint on the walls, etc.
        Fortunately, the plumber came, and we vacuumed most of it up.
        
        Turns out that this particular setup was installed in almost all
        of the units, and many of them had let go in the first winter. 
        
        Fortunately, she had homeowners coverage, and didn't have to pay
        out of pocket to repair the damage.  New ceilings, new carpets,
        new paint on the walls. 

        Tom

I have a simple question- what wire makes the phone ring in the phone
    jack? - My phone calls out, andbut will not ring. This is one jack
    in the bedroom, the others are fine.  I've switched wires, and the
    phone will ring on other jacks.  Any ideas?
    
    thanks,
    
    Scott
    

    There's only two wires for a phone system.  The other ones aren't
    used.  The wires that are used are the red and green ones.
    
    As for your phone ringing, I think it's probably bad.  Even if you
    switch the wires, the phone will still ring, but touch-tone won't
    dial if the wires are backwards.
    
    Did you try it in another jack in the house?
    
    
    -bill

    Ma Bell's touch tone phones will not produce a tone if they are
    backwards, most other tone phones will work either way.
    
    bjm

    What makes the phone ring is a certain level of AC voltage on the line.
    I think it's about 90 VAC.  Lower levels are used for voice
    communications.
    
    Jim

re .0

From your  note, it sounds like you have only one suspect jack;  the one in
the bedroom.   Normally,  all  you  need  is  the red and green wires.  The
normal  conversations are carried  out  over  a  48  volt,  milliamp  line.
Ringing, however,  is  a  much higher current, 20 cycle pulsing on the same
line.

A high resistance line and/or connection can affect the quality of the ring
current.  If you have  a  corroded  connection  (some houses still have the
main connector block outside under a  rubber cover) in that line, you might
just  have ringing problems.  Another common  problem  is  that  there  are
usually MANY reds and greens loosely connected at  the  terminal  block.  I
have often seen a wire or two just laying  against  others.  The connection
worked for conversation, but not for ringing.

First thing I would, and usually, do is to go to the  main connector block,
loosen  the nut holding down all the greens, undo them, make sure they  all
are clean copper  (not corroded), straighten them out, twist them together,
(careful, the wire is  brittle and can break) and put them back making sure
they are under the washer  and  the  nut is on tight.  Repeat for the reds.
Be careful not to let any  of the "feed lines" touch ground;  you may pop a
line fuse at the connector block in  the phone company office.  They take a
dim view of that.

Another common ringing problem, but will be a problem on all jacks, is that
you might have a high resistance carbon arc  in  the  lightning  arrestors;
small  cylinder-like  blocks in the main connector block.   When  the  line
takes  a lightning hit (even a partial) the current is  shunted  to  ground
across the gap between the carbon pellet and the grounded cylinder.    This
often leaves carbon sediment in the gap.  That can form a  high  resistance
short to ground.  It might not affect the talking, but it would  affect the
ringing.    Take  them  apart, one at a time, and clean the pellet and  the
inside  of  the block.  I use my finger to clean out the cylinder;   it  is
only  a problem if someone rings the line when my finger is in the cylinder
- but the damage is only to my ego.

Hope this helps.

Dave




< Note 2411.0 by KYOA::ELZAMS >
                       -< What will make my phone ring? >-

I have a simple question- what wire makes the phone ring in the phone
    jack? - My phone calls out, andbut will not ring. This is one jack
    in the bedroom, the others are fine.  I've switched wires, and the
    phone will ring on other jacks.  Any ideas?
    
    thanks,
    
    Scott
    

    
    I have a different question.
    I brought a phone with light pad.  I don't known how to
    make the pad light up.   Does it use other two line?
    Should I connect it to house power source?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Jason

>    There's only two wires for a phone system.  The other ones aren't
>    used.  The wires that are used are the red and green ones.

    Although the red and green wires are used for most phone installations,
it's not guaranteed that the red and green are the ones that are used.
Any two can be used... commonly when there are two lines in the house,
the first line is red/green and the second line is yellow/black.

    Also, in apartment buildings I've seen multi-colored wires, none
of which are red, green, yellow, or black.

    Before you take the wires off, just remember which two colors you're
dealing with.

>    I brought a phone with light pad.  I don't known how to
>    make the pad light up.   Does it use other two line?

Do you mean one of the old AT&T phones, like a princess phone or
trimline?  (From the days before modular plugs.)   They used to take
power from a separate small transformer to operate the lights.  I think
the transformer was often wired to the unused two lines in a residential
installation, but that was a bad practice. 

All the lighted phones that I've seen since the introduction of the 
modular plugs have taken power from the phone line itself.

Re: which two lines are used and polarity:

Your local AT&T phone store sells a dingus that you can push into the
modular jack that will tell you which lines are used and if they have
the correct polarity.  It's built in to a small multi-purpose tool that
also strips phone wire and does a few other things.  It's only a few
bucks. 
						>>>==>PStJTT

>    I brought a phone with light pad.  I don't known how to
>    make the pad light up.   Does it use other two line?

if its a new item it takes its power from the phone line.

However, if your phone system is still a mechanical stepper 
(dialtone=buzz instead of the nice tone), the system may not be able 
to support it.  If the device doesn't permit an alternate source of 
power (e.g., AC adapter) you're out of luck

/j

    The US standard telephone line provides enough _current_ at 90V ac to
    ring five "standard" bells (of the pre-1980 variety).  Nowadays ALL
    telephone equipment must display a registration number AND a ringer
    equivalence number (REN).  The REN tells you how many bells' worth of
    current the ringer draws.  Add up the RENs of ALL of the devices on the
    line (including answering machines, cordless phones, modems).  If
    it is over 5.0, you're out of luck, and have to remove one or more
    ringers.  Or if you must, there are relay-based systems that regenerate
    the ring so you can ring more bells.  (Note that ring detectors,
    as on answering machines, draw current too.  Think of them as silent
    ringers.  Some, however, have a very low REN.)

    Note that when you get to the REN limit, some devices crap out faster
    than others, depending upon their ringers.  So the bedroom phone
    might just be the indication of the problem.
        
    If you live a good way out from the central office (more than 4-5
    miles, as the pole runs), then you may have enough DC resistance
    in the line that even 5 ringers is too much.  Sorry.
          fred

>	If
>    it is over 5.0, you're out of luck, and have to remove one or more
>    ringers.  

can't I ask TELCO to jack up my ring voltage?


>	Or if you must, there are relay-based systems that regenerate
>    the ring so you can ring more bells.  

do I buy this from TELCO, or ????

    You cannot ask telco to jack up the ring current; the hardware supports
    5.0, and that's it.
    
    The telco cannot supply you with ANY customer premises equipment,
    be it telephone sets, answering machines, or bells.  (They can sell
    you a jack as part of a wiring job, but that's sort of a gray area.)
    If you want a high-capacity ring supply, check a telephone supply house
    like Graybar Electric (all over) or North Supply (Industrial Airport,
    Kansas).

    It's usually easier to just remove load.
           fred

There's a ringer device (says Western Electric on it) on the wall next to my
kitchen that rings whenever the phones in the house ring.  I'd like to get rid
of the thing and put a phone in its place. 

Is it safe to assume the phone line this ringer is wired into is `normal' and
can be wired into a modular jack? I mean, there's no such thing as a "ring
only" phone line is there? 

Unfortunately, I thought this job was going to be easy so I disconnected the
ringer last night and neglected to note how it was wired. The line going into
the ringer has the usual four wires:  yellow, green, red, and black.  But
when I tried to wire up a jack using red to red, green to green, etc., I
got nothing when I plugged in both a rotary dial phone and a cheapo new
tone dial phone.

Besides continued trial and error, how can I determine which two wires I need
to use? 

/Brian

    Take one of your working jacks apart.  If you don't have any modulars,
    ask a neighbor if you can take a look at his.

I just put my voltage meter on pairs of the wires and found out the black
and the yellow were part of a circuit, so I connected them to the red and
green poles in the jack chassis, respectively.  Plugged the phone in, and
presto.

/Brian

    Just out of curiousity- Was this the SECOND phone line in the same
    building? (Usually the RED/GREEN are used for pair-1, and BLK/YEL
    are used for the pair-2)
    
    M
    

    I have an older house with a 60 amp fuse box.  The wiring in the
    house is hardly adequate for the modern electrical applicance driven
    American.  I have been living there for about a year and have been
    remuddling and so am aware of the cautions of turing on the lights
    in this room only if the other is off and other such nonsense.
    
    My new wife moves in and I get a call one day while I am work.
    "Honey all the lights are off in the house.  How do I get them back
    on?" "What were you doing?" "Just trying my hair."  So I tell her
    where the extra fuses are and where in the box the blown fuse is
    likely to be..  She goes off for a while I hold the line.  She comes
    back after a bit and says she found one that looked different and
    she replaced it and now the lights work.  I ask what was plugged
    in and what was turned on.  "Not much,  I had the window unit a/c
    on and I was ironing my cloths with the curling iron and my curlers
    heating up and when I turned on the stereo, the lights went out."
    
    When I got home that night we had a discussion about living in older
    houses and the special rules of living with an under powered house.

    re-.1
     >> ironing my clothes with the curling iron ?!?
     So, do you have to unroll the arms when you put your shirt on?
    8^)
    
    -j
        
    

>< Note 2411.15 by DELNI::MHARRIS "Mark Jay Harris, Term Srvr Mktg Mgr" >
>                         -< Is this the second line? >-
>
>    Just out of curiousity- Was this the SECOND phone line in the same
>    building? (Usually the RED/GREEN are used for pair-1, and BLK/YEL
>    are used for the pair-2)
>    
>    M

Usually? No.

Red and Green are used for the "Tip and  Ring"  connections;  that is, they are
the active talking and ringing pair.  Yellow and Black  are  used  for "Battery
and  Ground"  supply from a "plug into the wall" DC supply  for  use  in  night
lights,  and other accessories requiring more power than can come from the  Red
and Green lines.

If  anyone  connects the Yellow and Black wires  to  a  second  line  they  are
violating one of the numerous Bell System Practices that  define how everything
is  supposed to be installed - from the Central Office  to  the  lines  to  the
phone.  I saw more than one installer suspended for such  "trivial" sloppiness.

Multiple lines  are  simply  hooked up in parallel.  Lots of Green connected to
one post and lots of red connected to another.

If it were my problem and I found that the Yellow and Black were "hot", I would
trace it back as far as I could to correct the real problem.    If it were in a
wall or  other hard-to-get-to place, I would simply keep things in perspective,
make it work,  and  leave  well  enough  alone  (I don't have to live with BSPs
anymore).

Then again, it might be a good excuse to keep a phone out of a teenager's room.

Dave

    It may not be usual to use BLK/YEL for a second line, but I too
    have seen it done;  the pisser is that you've got a fair chance
    of hooking it up "backwards", which means that a Touchtone phone
    can answer calls but not dial out (although a pulse dialer can).
    
    Dick

    I must differ. I have now had my third house wired by the phone
    company (mountain bell, then new england tel twice) and IN ALL
    INSTALLATIONS, they use the blk/yel pair for the second number.
    (The installer from NE Tel special services who installed the line
    indicated that it USED to be used for things like pricess phone
    lighted-dials and stuff like that, but CURRENT bell practices
    show red/grn for line 1 and yel/blk for line 2 for all
    residential installations).
    
    For the most recent installation (last week), I was there the whole
    time. I even asked him if he could run it on a new
    piece of cable from the outside termination box to the 'SNI'
    (sys netwrk interface) and he replied, "...there's no reason to
    run a new cable inside the house."
    
    I think this is the 'new' practices manual for installers...
    

    I concur with Mark in .18.  My house didn't even have yellow/black
    connected to anything external, and when I had my second line
    installed, New England Telephone simply told me to use yellow/black.
    
    			Steve

I checked with  friend  who is still an installer.  The BSPs have not changed -
only the dedication  to adherence has changed.  

This  is  only  one  of a myriad of things that are different  since  the  AT&T
breakup.  When you are a controlled monopoly and can spread the coasts  around,
you can take the time to "do it right".  Indeed, the motto always  was,  and  I
paraphrase,  "No  job  is  so  important that you cannot take the time to do it
right." Unfortunately, profit  margins often come into play now.  And that is a
rat hole that shold probably not be tunneled into here.  

The point is, there is STILL a standard and when that standard is deviated from
for whatever reason (why run  a  new cable when the Y&BK pair will do?) you run
the risk of creating a problem for the next guy.

Dave

>  I checked with  friend  who is still an installer.  The BSPs have not
>  changed - only the dedication  to adherence has changed. 

That's interesting given that Bell/Western sells two-line modular gear 
that takes the second line off the y/b pair and their installation 
instructions specify to wire the jacks that way.  In fact, I haven't 
seen power hooked to the y/b since the phone company came up with the 
modular system.  Maybe there are different BSPs for modular 
installation?
					>>>==>PStJTT

    re: "wired backwards" - I bought a simple gadget at Radio Shack
    that tells you if TIP and RING on on the correct sides for line1.
    
    

re .20 (and everybody else):

OK, I give: just what problems could I be getting myself into if I use
the other two wires for a second phone line?

My house currently has two lines: one line goes to some rooms and the
other line goes to other rooms.  I'd like both lines to run to several
rooms, with no room getting just my second line.

I thought I had to go down in my basement and run wires all over the
place and drill new holes to make this happen -- it's a real spaghetti
bowl on my basement ceiling already, I don't want to make it worse.

But based on these notes, it seems like the preferable thing to do is
to attach the two sets of existing wires at a junction block, and
connect two plugs to the phone cable in each room.  Being careful to
make sure the second pair really are disconnected on each, of course.

So just what problems could occur?  Or to put it another way, what if any
modular phone equipment actually uses the second pair of wires, and what
are they used for?

	Thanks,
	Larry

>    re: "wired backwards" - I bought a simple gadget at Radio Shack
>    that tells you if TIP and RING on on the correct sides for line1.
    
Your local "Phone Store" sells a multi-purpose tool that strips wire, 
sets push-in connections, knocks the sides out of wiring blocks and has 
an LED that will check for proper polarity on both sets of lines in a 
modular jack.  It's just a cheapie little plastic thing that costs less 
than a fiver.
					>>>==>PStJTT

>  OK, I give: just what problems could I be getting myself into if I use
>  the other two wires for a second phone line?

If you are wiring for modular equipment, then you shouldn't get into any 
trouble at all.  In a household modular jack the two inner conductors 
are for line 1, and the two outer conductors are for line 2.  The gadget 
that I mentioned in a previous reply that is sold by the Bell Phone 
Stores is designed to test installations made that way, so there must be 
some backing for it in some standard somewhere.  The same stores sell a 
book on doing your own phone wiring that might be a good purchase.

To the best of my knowlege, everyone who sells a two-line phone with a 
modular jack on it follows the same convention, and Radio Shack sells a 
splitter that will plug into  a single jack and provide two jacks that 
single line phones can plug into, one on line 1 and the other on line 2.

The only time you could run into trouble is if you hook into old 
pre-modular wiring that has a transformer for powering the light in an 
old-style direct-wire phone.  The new modular phones seem to draw power 
direct.  In that case, you'd want to check the wires with a voltmeter 
before hooking them into your new modular wiring.

						>>>==>PStJTT

Re: potential problems

>OK, I give: just what problems could I be getting myself into if I use
>the other two wires for a second phone line?

Crosstalk, maybe. Try it, if it works, fine. Beats the heck out of 
running new cable. You are not going to screw anyone up by doing so. If 
you want to stress test it use a modem on one line and talk on the 
other.

Re: BSP (I assume that means Bell Service Provider) practices.

Right or wrong, the YB pair have for years been used for a second 
line. 

Chuck
Unlicensed Plumber
Unlicensed Electrician (ex-Navy-EM)
Titled Telecom Systems Engineer

    If you do this, make sure you either rewire EVERY phone jack as
    a double, or at least disconnect the "other" pair from the jack
    if you're leaving it as a single.  Otherwise, wiring inside the phone
    when you plug it in will cause you trouble (at least this is what
    the installer told me).  I've never had a problem with crosstalk in
    two such installations.
    
    				Steve

Re a couple:

BSP is Bell Systems Practices;  a collection of manuals on how to  do  anything
and everything you  would  ever  want  to  do  concerning  telephone equipment;
offices, poles, ladders, trucks, light bulbs, etc., etc., ad nauseum.  It makes
the DEC set of STDs pale in comparison.

Crosstalk:  Not likely since  most  of  what runs in the household lines is low
voltage,  non-amplified.   Indeed, the connecting  "frame"  in  an  office  has
literally millions of pairs flopping all over  the place.  Crosstalk was only a
problem in toll (long distance) systems where line amplification occurred.

Problems:  The "right" way to handle the Y&BK wires  when they are not used for
power & ground is to simply cut them and spiral wrap  them  around the butt end
of the cable.  As long as you take a cable that  you  know  has  its Y&BK leads
floating at both ends, you can then use them for the talking pair.

The only problem you run into is the confusion anyone faces when he  sees  that
pair hooked  up  to  something.   Often, when transformers were used, many Y&BK
pair were parallel  hooked  up  to the supply.  Since it is actually a floating
supply (power and return as  opposed  to  power and ground), if you then used a
Y&BK pair that was also (through  parallel hookup) connected to the supply, you
will still have some level of talking,  but  you  will  not be able to modulate
sufficiently - poor quality sound and low, if  any,  ringing voltage.  

Now that modular phones are hear (intentional mis-spelling - it is a pun, gang)
and non-Western Electric equipment is sold through the operating companies, you
see a mish-mash of different color-coding.   Anyone  who  hooks  up  a  modular
phone, for instance, WITHOUT following the color-code instructions,  is  asking
for grief.  It gets worse when you have  the  multi-wired  cables  for multiple
lines mixed in with the old 4 wire cables.

License vrs un-licensed:  I would never  suggest  that  anyone  NOT  do his own
wiring/plumbing/phone  hookup  simply  because  he  does  not have  a  license.
Indeed, the only time I bring in  an  electrician  is when I need to connect to
the PSNH mains, the only time I bring in a plumber is when I need to connect to
the city sewer line (the inspector gets involved, then)  and  Ma Bell NEVER has
seen the inside of my house.

However, and as it has been discussed in other  notes,  if  you  do  it without
understanding the "right" way (code, if you will), you leave  yourself  open to
problems.  Keep  it  all  in  perspective, though.  That kind of ignorance with
household wiring is a serious hazard (criminal negligence if you have a fire or
burn someone else with a shock),  with  plumbing  it  is  a  soggy, and  often
expensive, nuisance (and Mrs.  Homeowner laughs  heartily), with telephones, it
can be frustrating since much of what can  go  wrong  leaves  you with a poorly
operating phone instead of a dead (and easier to trouble shoot) one.

I spent much of my first few years in this house re-doing the electrical wiring
since the previous dummy, as opposed to the present dummy  :-),  did  not  know
what he was doing.  He:

        * used 2 prong outlets everywhere he could

        * overloaded one side of the main (only 60 amps to boot)

        * "floated" the ground tracer in almost all light circuits 
        
        * moved the  refrigerator (when he re-did the kitchen) to the same line
        as  the  stove  fan, main kitchen lights and back porch light.    Motor
        comes on and lights dim.
        
        * Spliced and  taped  wires  above  the  false  ceiling in the basement
        NOT USING A BOX,  he just wire nutted them and then wrapped it all with
        plastic tape.
        
        * removed the lightning arrestors  from  the telephone connector block.
        All I can think of is  that  they  worked  the way they are supposed to
        when  lightning  hit the lines and he  figured  he'd  fix  the  problem
        himself.  I discm until long after they were put back.
        did not need them.

The point to all this windage is this;  try and find out the "right  way" to do
it.  If you consciously do something different, and we all do, write it out and
put it someplace where you, or someone else, can find it later.  If you use the
Y&BK leads, as  I  would suggest if additional cabling is a problem, write on a
piece of masking tape  what  they  are  used for and tape it to the appropriate
wire as it goes into the main connecting block.

>    The point to all this windage is this;  try and find out the "right
>    way" to do it.  

    The "right" way today is to use "PAIRS" of wires for each phone line.
    Y/B are no longer used (except in existing installations) for ground
    and power for lighted dials and such. Power for lighted dials is
    supplied thru the pair now. Therefore when it's time to install a
    second line in the house and the Y/B pair ARE NOT being used for
    ground/power, it's "RIGHT" to use them. 
    
    When "Ma Bell" wired my house 6 or 7 sevens ago, they used a wire with
    3 pairs (6 wires) and none of them were red/green/yellow/black. They
    were pair-ed off with colors combinations like blue/blue&white,
    orange/orange&white green/green&white. They only used the
    blue/blue&white pair initially. The others are for future use. 

    Charly

>Crosstalk:  Not likely since  most  of  what runs in the household lines is low
>voltage,  non-amplified.   Indeed, the connecting  "frame"  in  an  office  has
>literally millions of pairs flopping all over  the place.  Crosstalk was only a
>problem in toll (long distance) systems where line amplification occurred.

I had telco put two network interfaces in my basement.  I ran the 2
lines using a single wire through the house to several modular jacks. 
I used what's commonly called 4-conductor telephone line 
($.06-$.10/ft), R&G for one pair, Y&B for the other. The 2 places I
use the 2nd line, I connect a 2-line phone directly to the modular
jack. 

I have audible crosstalk between the two lines.  A conversation one 
one is barely discernable on the other.  When the modem is on one 
line, the quality on the other is degraded by a audible hiss.

can I fix this, or is this the consequence of putting 2 line in the 
same jacket?

The first  thing  you  should do is to disconnect (temporarily) the line(s) you
ran and then  connect  a  phone to each interface connector block where Ma Bell
last did the work.  If you still hear the crosstalk, the problem is "out at the
street" and is their responsibility.   

If the crosstalk goes away, you have an  easy solution.  Try one of two:  1)Run
two separate lines and/or 2) make sure each phone  is  connected using "twisted
pair" cables.  The twisting helps eliminate crosstalk sensitivity;   that's how
the phone company gets away with running 50+pair in a cable without problems.

Dave

    Confirming -.1,
    Once upon a time I was in charge of telephones for a rather large
    company (about 800 phones on site at the time).  They had a new
    system installed by a company which shall remain nameless, though
    it is now an IBM subsidiary.  :-)  We hooked up message waiting
    lights to each phone using the y/b pair on the modular jack.  But
    to conserve riser cable, we split the pairs in the 200-pair risers,
    so only 3 wires went to each phone and the frame had common ground.
    That meant that telephone lines were sometimes paired with other
    lines.
    
    Lemme tell you, did we have crosstalk!  A few weeks after cutover
    we had a weekend session to rewire the risers.  All phone lines
    were on their own pairs; some pairs carried two m.w. lights. That
    fixed things.
    
    If you use "quad" (unpaired) wire within a house, there's a small
    risk of crosstalk, depending upon distance.  Twisted pair is better.
    
    BTW, there are no more "BSP's", since there's no more Bell System.
    AT&T (the old) used the term "BSP" to apply to most of their
    documentation.  I.e., if they had made VAXen, the doc set would
    have been a BSP.  There were, thus, LOTS of BSPs on all sorts of
    topics.
         fred

    Re: .32 TWISTED PAIR is not just a fancy way to keep two wires
    physically together. It actually reduces the risk of interference
    from other surrounding signals and produces an 'isolation'.
    
    TWISTED PAIR IS NOT JUST 2 WIRES! In the previous reply where he
     actually wired using 1 conductor from two different pairs... ugh!
    The whole twisted pair isolation effect was not realized. No wonder
    he had a whole lot of cross-talk.
    
    Mark

    I have a question about a phone ringing.  I have a UNIDEN XE-200
    Cordless Phone.  The batteries went on it the other day so I took
    the phone appart to replace the batteries.  When I took the phone
    appart a purple wire came loose, the wire goes to the ringer. There
    ae two wires going to the ringer, one is grey and the other is purple.
    I was hoping that someone has a similiar phone that they can take
    a look at the wires and find out where the purple wire is solder
    onto the board with respect to the grey wire.  The grey wire is
    still in place.  If you take the phone apart to have a look at the
    wires , there is a screw holding it together, you proably will not
    be able to see it because it is covered by the piece of paper that
    you are suppose to write the phone number on. remove the paper and
    the screw will be there. After the screw is removed it just pops
    apart with a screw driver.  Any help with this proble would be greatly
    appreciated.
    
    Thanks
     

    Our telephone line has recently developed intermittent noise, the cause
    of which I and the phone company can't figure out. Wonder if anyone in
    here has any ideas.
    
    When it happens, the noise--a crackling sound--is audible at all three 
    extensions in the house.  It's sometimes so bad you can barely hear the
    person on the other end; it's so bad I can't really use my modem and
    terminal because junk characters show up on the screen.
    
    Of course, when the phone company guy came out to check things out, the
    phone was silent. He checked the wire on the street and did some stuff
    in the house as well. Had no ideas.  But that night, the line was so
    bad I couldn't even read my e-mail from home.
    
    The noise occurs at no regular time during the day, and we haven't
    been able to link it to any electrical interference in the house. 
    
    Does anybody have any suggestions of other things to check?
    
    \Brian

    Where the wiring comes from to from pole to the house is a box which is
    the demarkation point between the inside wiring and the phone company
    wiring. If you open the cover, you'll see a modular connector. Next
    time you have the noise, unplug the cable in that connector and plug in
    a phone. If the noise is still there, the problem is OUTSIDE of your
    home and a phone company problem. As a thought, if you have a tape re-
    corder handy, record the noise to show the phone company what you're
    talking about. Also log the times you have the problem to see if a
    pattern exists.
    
    Eric

    At our previous home, we had a very similar problem.  At times the
    phone was virtually unusable because of the static.  We went through
    several service calls with the phone company, and when they showed
    up the phone always worked fine, of course.
    
    We finally realized that the problem showed up pretty consistently
    after a good heavy rainstorm.  I mentioned this to the repair folks,
    and they finally switched us over to a different line within the
    main cable.  Seems that if the street line is somewhat old the
    insulation cracks, letting in moisture, which then can cause a lot
    of static. After that, we never had the problem again.

    
    -Mark

    We had the same problem as .0, and the same solution as .2.  The
    phone company wound up replacing two lengthy sections of cable
    on the poles on our street.  Check for a pattern of noise 24-48
    hours after a rainstorm.
    
    pbm
    

    I've had a lot of noise on my office phone, so I contacted the phone
    company (via my wonderful secretary, of course).  The phone company
    told me to hit *563 whenever the noise occurred during a live phone
    call.  This allowed them to trace the call and find the point of
    error.  Although they never explained to me what hitting *563 did,
    it provided them with the information they needed (after about a
    dozen calls with noise and hitting *563), and they rectified the
    problem.
    
    Bo

This problem is an aggravation to the average talking user;   it  is a disaster
to someone logged on with a modem.

Often, this  problem  is  with the equipment in the Central Office.  Since that
equipment is "shared"  by  all  users,  you  would not necessarily get the same
lines each time you  connect to dial tone.  The BEST bet is, when you get a bad
line, hold it open and  call the repair service on another line.  Tell them the
number that is noisy and they  CAN  (if  you persuade them to) trouble-shoot it
down to the problem equipment.

As an incentive to getting the problem fixed, after a toll call that was noisy,
call the operator and ask to have the  billing  cleared  since  the line was so
noisy.  Find out the time and charges and  then  call  the  business office and
tell them how much revenue they lost and will continue  to  lose  until  it  is
fixed.

Finally, use the Public Utilities Commission as a court of last resort.

    I had the same problem at my house and I found the modular connectors
    on 2 of the phones had a bit of oxidation on them.  I replaced the
    wall outlets and that cured the problem.
    
    If you have the modular type connections, unplug the phone at the
    wall and look inside the wall connector (use a flashlight for best
    results), if you see a greenish color on the bare wire ends, you've
    got a problem with oxidation.
    
    Have fun.
    
    

        We had this problem big time just over a year ago. Finally the line
    went completely dead. Turned out a tree limb was chafing the cable at a
    point some 3 miles from my house. It finally broke the line. It was
    easier for them to find the hard fault as opposed to the intermittent
    one. Last month we lost phone service again for about 6 days and once 
    again it was out on their cables.
    
    
    bob

Too much here to write lock now, too much bother to delete them all and repost.
But there's another note already on phone line noise at note 364.

Paul

    Ok, what is the number you dial that will cause your line to ring
    back???

    RE: -.1
    
    The ONLY guaranteed 'ring-back' number is "0" !!
    
    Depending on your location, there MAY be others, but I haven't seen
    one of those for years.
    
    Use "0" for operator
    
    8-)
    Mark

Switching out the pair from the central office will often fix the problem
if it is water induced.  Another thing they can do is cut the pair after
your tap.  All pairs from the central office go all the way to the end
of the cable, wherever that may be.  When your drop is attached they are
simply tapping the line.  Cutting the line after your tap reduces
the probability of having water induce noise.

After much haggling with Ma over a similar problem they resorted to this
trick and solved my noise problems.

Loren

    Had the same intermittent type problem on my line.  At night the
    line would go wacko but when the repairman came during the day
    everything was okay.  I finally got a guy out to my house at dusk
    and he found the problem right away.  Coming into the house, on
    the outside, there is a terminal box.  Inside there are some screw
    in carbon piles that go to ground (may have something to do with
    lightening protection).  He replaced these and the problem went
    away.  Looks like during the day with the sun on it, it was okay
    but when the sun went down and it cooled off, the line would crackle.
    This brings up the point of "noise".  There are many things that
    can cause it so it would be best to get the repairman there when
    it is happening.  The guy that fixed my problem came out after 7PM
    because that is when I had my problem.
                                          

    Oay, I'm having the same problem too.  About six weeks ago I had a
    second line installed specifically for my terminal, as I have call
    waiting and that interfers with modem transmission.  For three weeks
    the new line worked beautifully, I mean without one bit of garbage, no 
    cut offs etc.  All of a sudden everything has gone bad.  I spent an
    hour last week and two yesterday with representatives from the phone
    company and they have assured me that the problem is not with their
    lines etc.  It was mentioned that there might be a "programming" error
    somewhere along the line (I assume he meant with Digital.)  Now that I
    have been "cleared with the phone co., what is the next step in the
    investigation process?
    
    The first time I call in I am able to connect for approximately five
    minutes before I either get so much garbage or get dropped or hung.
    Reconnecting is impossible.  I have tried all of the VX numbers,
    tried connecting through TSN and tried ALL of the direct dial-ups to
    our system.
    
    Thanks

    Re .11
    
    make sure it's not your modem.  I had the same problem until I
    dumped the old DF03 in favor of a Scholar; the old one would
    go intermittent, then terminal (no pun intended) after being
    in use for about ten minutes.
    
    pbm
    

I'll second  .12's  reply.    It  seems there was a "flaky" chip in DF03's that
could be replaced  to  fix  the  problem.  I fixed it be dumping the DF03 for a
DF112 that worked fine.

Dave

We get terrible interference on our phone from an AM radio station that
broadcasts in the Needham MA area.  It caused my terminal screen to fill with
garbage when using my home computer equipment with a modem.

I bought a filter for the AM interference at the A T and T phone center
store. That solved my problem, perhaps it would help you. 

The filter is about $18.00 and has a modular plug into which you clip one 
end of your modem line and then plug the filter into your phone jack.

Diana

    re. 14
    You had to buy the filter? I called the FCC because I couldn't use
    my phone when a local AM station put up three towers near my house.
    After several calls (to the FCC) my phone works better. Apparently
    you shouldn't get radio signals over you phone.
    
    Jim
    
    I used to get radio (sound) over my T.V. too, but I changed the 
    connectors and it's ok now.
    
    

Re: .15  

It depends on why you're picking up the interference.  If it's because the
radio station is not putting out a clean signal, then it's the radio
station's problem and the FCC will make them fix it.  If it's because of a 
defect in the manufacture or installation of your phone, then it's up to
you to fix it.  

If the cost of the fix is more important than the time it will take, you can
call the maker of the gear (phone, TV set, etc.) and tell them you're
getting interference, and they will often ship the parts to fix it for free.
The idea seems to be that they can save money by correcting the faults
when complaints come up rather than building it right to begin with.

					>>>==>PStJTT

    re:.4
    For the record, "*563" is uniquely a Rolm feature, so you must be in
    one of the sites with a Rolm PBX.  (APO, UFO, ENO, ZWO, CXO, CFO come
    to mind.)  On an outside (trunk) call, *563 (you have to flash, of
    course) simply writes a record to a 16-deep file which stores the
    extension number, time, and trunk that you're connected to.  If there
    are a bunch of such entries (of the 16) that show the same trunk, then
    the technician can be pretty sure it's noisy.  Or can at least
    tell tell which trunk you were on!
    
    It's a nice but obscure feature (the "RBT" button on Rolm ETSs does it
    easier) that nobody else's PBX (that I know of) has yet.  And it of
    course is of no use for home phones.
          fred (moderator, DELNI::PBX)

    We have two Panasonic phones in our house.  Our bedroom phone has just
    developed a problem - my wife has received a couple mild shocks while
    talking on the phone in the dryness of our bedroom.  Any ideas.
    
    By the way, this phone has been dropped off its stand a number of times
    by our playful children.
    
    Thanks
    Michael

    First..... is the phone also a clock/radio or other device requiring
    electrical connection to a standard 120vac outlet. If yes, then
    the dropping of the device has damaged the electrical portion of
    the device.
    
    Normally, a phone will not cause electrical shock. It is possible
    however to receive "static shock" from a phone line. Now, if this
    static shock only happens when (as you say) the humidity is dry/low,
    then there is little that can be done asside from humidifying the
    room.
    
    If the problem happens at times when the humidity is higher, then
    you may want to change out the wire which runs between your phone
    and your wall/phone outlet. In dropping the phone, this wire could
    develop breaks or damage either to the wire itself or the modular
    connector at the phone end. These wires are inexpensive.
    
    Nonetheless, the problem is not a danger to anyone. A phone line
    in itself is a "low voltage" service. Danger of injury from such
    a shock hazard is unlikely. Of course you can't predict this, BUT
    the only time you need worry about dangerous shock hazard from a
    phone line is if, at the time you might be touching the bare wires,
    someone attempts to ring your number. The voltage level increases
    dramatically at that instent. To avoid this, disconnect the wire
    from the wall outlet prior to doing any other troubleshooting.
    
    One other question I would ask is.... Does this phone ring EVERYtime
    other phones in the house ring.? The reason for asking this question
    is to determine if there is a short in the phone/wire. If the phone
    is not ringing each time the number is called, OR it stops ringing
    when the phone is lifted of the stand, then there is a short it
    the unit or wire. Finding out which is bad would be easy. Change
    out the wire (as stated above). If the problem still exists, then
    the problem is within the phone AND the only alternative is to have
    the phone replaced.
    
    If the phone is an expensive one, you may find someone who would
    fix it. Otherwise, replacement is your only option.!
    
    Hope this long winded expanation helps!!!
    
    Bob G. (whos_life_is_telephony)

I have a wall phone in my basement, and I started getting shocks from the
metal cradle. It turned out that the modular connector on the back which slides
a little bit, had caused one or more of the wires connected to it to short to
the metal phone chassis. Insulating the wires from the metal chassis with a
little piece of electrical tape stopped this "shocking" behavior.

				-- stan

For the past several months we have been experiencing telephone line noise in 
the form of a short (5 second) clicking sound. The other party can still be 
heard over the clicking but it is mildly annoying!  It happens at random times
and occurs multiple times on almost every phone call.  It doesn't matter if we
have called out or received a call in.

We have 4 phone jacks in the house (some new and some old).  We disconnected all 
but 1 and the clicking happened.  We disconnected that particular one and 
re-connected another one and the clicking still occured.  This led us to believe
that the problem was outside of the house. (I will try the earlier noted 
suggestion of connecting a phone at the connection point outside of the house).

We have called the phone company 3 times and they say the outside line has 
been checked (we aren't home during the day but my neighbor confirmed that they 
were definately there 1 time) and the line is fine but the clicking still 
happens.

Any suggestions?

Could it be call waiting?  When we moved, the phone company hooked up our new
phone with call waiting.  We had never used it before.  There was this annoying
clicking sound periodically which bothered us, but we didn't know what it was.
Finally someone we were talking to recognized the sound because THEY have call
waiting.

Paul

When I complained about noisy lines, the phone company asked if I had 
experienced the problem from a phone connected to the "network interface 
connector".  I asked them if they meant the 2 screws with wire wrapped around
them in the basement.  They came out and installed a connector.  Then they
checked the wires.  They asked if I had a cordless phone, which I do, and 
stated that interference often comes from them.  I tried disconnecting it, and
all the interference went away.  Now, I just live with the interference.

At least they don't tell you that your problem stem from the inferior quality
of non ATT products, like they used to just after the phone company broke up.
(My cordless phone is an AT&T 4400, by the way.)

    We had line noise which was varying amounts of static. The problem was
    intermittent and ranged from no static to a level where other parties
    could not be heard.   After going several rounds with the phone
    company, they finally came out while I was home one day.  We found that
    the line from the street to the house connection was frayed. 
    Apparently squirrels like the taste of wire insulation and will gnaw on
    the insulation.  In our case half the insulation was missing at one
    point and the wire was frayed.  Depending on weather, moisture and
    other conditions, the connection was better or worse.  They replaced
    the line from the pole to the major connector and things cleared up.

Yes, I had the same problem with a static noise that was so loud it drowned
out the other party.  I called the phone company, they came out and did
something the next day and the problem disappeared.

Old cordless phones, those that don't use tone dialing and don't use digital
security codes, could cause clicking noises.  But the modern ones shouldn't.

		Steve

re. .20:
What is a network interface connector?  Does it replace the 2 screws with wire
wrapped around them?  I'll have to check what we have.

We have an AT&T cordless phone but we still have the clicking noise even when it
is disconnected.  Same with an answering machine (AT&T) and a Radio Shack 
basement phone.  The clicking started sometime around when the basement phone 
jack was installed but we can't remember if it was definately before or after.

re. .19.
We don't have call waiting but that is the type of clicking we are hearing.  We
don't receive that many phone calls so even if the phone company gave it to us
without a charge (highly unlikely!!) I would find it hard to believe that 
every time I was on the phone, even for 1 minute, someone would be calling in.
 

Thanks for the replies.

The Network Interface Connector is the device that attaches to the phone
company's wires and has a modular jack for connection to the house wiring.
You would typically have a connector block with a modular plug that plugs
into it.  By disconnecting the plug, you isolate the phone company's wires
from your house wires.  This does take the place of the connector block
with the two or four screw posts on it.

			Steve

RE: .13-.16

My mother has the radio interference problem.  Whenever we talk on the
phone, she says she can hear a radio station.  It is very bad on one
of her phones and bearable (she can carry on a conversation) with the
other two.  The phone on which the radio station comes in loud and clear
was a freebie, so it's probably just a cheap phone and the filter or
just a new phone would probably help.

But how do you determine if it's the phone or the radio station?
How can I get in touch with the FCC (i.e. What does FCC stand for?)?
My mother lives in Moorestown, NJ (near Cherry Hill).

Thanks,
Amy

    This used to happen to the phones in my parents house.  When I moved
    the phone in my bedroom away from my cheap radio and CB base station
    the phone no longer picked up the radio. 
    
    bjm

> But how do you determine if it's the phone or the radio station?
> How can I get in touch with the FCC (i.e. What does FCC stand for?)?
> My mother lives in Moorestown, NJ (near Cherry Hill).

The FCC is the Federal Communications Commission.  The main office is in 
Gettysburg, PA 17326.  For most problems, it's best to get the phone book
for the nearest major city and look up the Field Office, since they're the
one's who have to handle the complaint.

If what you're hearing is a commercial station, it's almost ALWAYS the phone
that's at fault.  In fact, even with non-commercial stations (police, fire,
hams, CB, etc.) it is most often the phone that's at fault.  Even very
expensive phones are made with little or no concern about radio interference.
Major manufaturers have decided it's cheaper to settle individual complaints
than to make their whole line of phones reject RF.  

Fortunately, if it's a major phone (AT&T, ITT, etc) the company that made it
will often ship the parts to fix the problem for free.  If it's a 
"guess ho made me?" phone, the parts to fix the problem are still in the
range of a few dollars.  If you complain to the FCC, they'll probably send
you a booklet about RFI (radio frequency interference) that has some steps
to take.  
					>>>==>PStJTT

The phone book has a picture of the network interface connector in the pages
at the beginning.  They also have a guideline for trouble shooting problems.

    Re: radio station on telephone
    
    I had this problem once with a phone I had.  My cubicle-mate at the
    time (previous job) had a EE, and also remembered the problem occurring
    in his parent's house.  The phone company came out and put a capacitor
    accross the two incoming phone leads.  He did some figuring, and came
    up with either .047 or .0047 mfd capacitor (at least 50v).  I bought
    some of each, and I think that the .047 took care of my radio
    interference.
    
    Mark Lovik

The phone company came out again today for the third time.  This time my husband 
was home to talk to the repairman.  He said the problem is back at the main 
office.  He was given the wrong information on the first 2 service requests so 
had checked out the wrong thing.  I guess it pays to be home when they show up.

The repairman also installed a network interface connector for free.   He
said that they make their job alot easier because the consumer can quickly 
determine if the problem is inside of the house or outside and only call the
phone company when they are sure it's the phone company's problem.

    I have an old phone at home (1943 variety).  The phone cord is very
    frayed and in rough shape.  Last nite one of the 3 cords ripped and 
    so now I have no phone.  I'm looking for suggestions as to where I
    might be able to find a 3 wire handset lead, the chord that connects
    the handset to the phone, I've tried a couple of radio shacks so far
    but to no avail.  
    
    I'll take the new wire but what I'd really like is to replace the old
    chord with another old chord, like finding someone that has 20 feet
    still wrapped up on a shelve somewhere.  It is a cloth covered 3 wire
    chord, red,white,gray.  Some old handyman store or antique store might
    have it hidden away.
    
    Any suggestions would be terrific.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Sandy

    YOu might also want to post your request in
    MOMAX1::ANTIQUE_COLLECTIBLES  or you might try ELECTRO-HOBBY.
    
    

    You can get cloth covered handset wires at an AT&T phone store. It has
    4 wires, but there should be no problem by using only 3 of them. The
    only problem might be that it has modular connectors, which you may
    need to cut off.
    
    Eric

Also, an inquiry in the following conference may produce a lead.

BTOVT::TELEPHONES

    thanks for all your suggestions!  I'm off to the phone store to check
    it out & will put my question in the other notes files mentioned.
    
    Really appreciate your help,
    
    Sandy

    Got a question about an odd ringing on one of my phones.  At about
    10:00 or 10:30 every night the phone in the bedroom will ring twice -
    just two 'dings' and that's it.  I think that this may also happen at
    other random times but it's consistent at the time mentioned.  Another 
    thing that happens that I think may be related is that when you hang up 
    the kitchen phone (there are three phones in the house, each wired 
    independently back to the main junction in the cellar) the bedroom phone 
    will 'ding'.  Other than these anomalies both phones work fine.  Any ideas 
    on why this happens?
    
    George

    Re .37:
    
    It is possible the "dings" which occur at the same time nightly
    are the result of automated line testing done by the telephone
    company.  The testing isn't intended to "ding" the phone, but
    some phones seem to be especially sensitive.
    
    Look through BTOVT::TELEPHONES if you're interested in more
    information.

    I have had the same problem, however, only on one of my phones.  The
    problem stopped when i replaced a cordless phone with a conventional
    set.  I suspect my cordless was picking up some kind of signal at
    night.

I've looked around and can't find this issue addressed elsewhere
in this file (although I find that hard to believe).

We currently have 4 phones on one line in our house.  I'd like
to be able to use 3 (or maybe even 4?) at a time when we call
someone.  Currently, we can use 2 without much problem, but
picking up the third phone really weakens the signal.

It would seem to me that an amplification of the power in
the line is all that is needed.  It so happens I have a transformer
that we used when we only had one (house)bell in the house (we now have
2 and needed a stronger transformer which I put in) which I could
easily wire into the phone line.  Is something like this a legitimate
thing to do?  Will it work?  What are the dangers?  

Thanks,

Collis

    No, no, no...  you try that and the phone company will be VERY upset
    (besides, as far as I know, it won't work.)  You have to ask the
    phone company to boost the signal level to your home; either that,
    or get phones which provide a lower load on the line than the ones
    you're using.
    
    You might try asking in the 12DOT2::TELEPHONES conference.
    
    				Steve

    Another option is to use speaker phones to share lines.
    
    Jim

	Every telephone has a "ringer equivalency number" that tells the
	phone company how much power the phone needs in order to operate. My
	geuss is that your house was originally wired for fewer than 3
	phones, with extra outlets added later (or possibly one of your
	phones is a power hog, but that's less likely). The proper thing to
	do is to call your local phone company about your problem. They will
	ask you for the ringer equivalency numbers for each phone, and will
	adjust the power to your lines accordingly.

	I do not know whether this will cost you any money, so you should
	ask about that up front.

	Roy

Actually, the ringer equivalency number is not the real issue, but the other
load figure (I forget what it's called, but it often is listed in the form
"0.1B".  Calling the phone company for advice is the best bet.  At least they
don't charge you per phone anymore.

				Steve

     The ringer equivalency number (REN) indicates the load that the phone
has on your circuit.  It is listed as something like "1.0B".  In our area,
the standard signal strength coming into the house is 5.0 (I don't recall the
unit being described).  Five phones at a 1.0 rating will max-out the circuit.
Any more phones added will show a weakening of the ringer signal, and eventually
the phones will not ring.  This also affects the voice signal strength, but not
at the same rate.  Three phones utilized simultaneously might show a reduced
signal, even if the house is set for 5 ringers.

     The (REN) is usually on the back or bottom of your telephone.

                                        Greg

I called the phone company.  They said that my line is
fine and that there is nothing they could do.  I mentioned
that I heard that it was possible to increase the power
to my phone line, but this did not ring any bells with
them <groan>.

Collis

    Call the phone company's service department and ask to speak to
    a technician.
    
    				Steve

	Hmm, several topics on running phone lines, fixing broken
	phones, etc, but no topic on cordless phones ....

	I haven't bought a cordless phone up to this point because
	we all know all too well they are not secure (it's very
	easy for someone to eavesdrop, even accidently).  Looking
	through this weeks flyers however I see Lechmere is selling
	two Panosonic models with a "voice scrambling" feature.

	Anyone know for sure what this feature is?  The Lechmere ad
	says no more.  I'm assuming that the radio signal between
	the base unit and the handheld unit is scrambled [sufficiently]
	so someone eavesdropping will hear only garbage???

would be the right conference

    
    We just bought a house in the same town and have asked the phone
    company to install a telephone in the new house, using the same
    number as the current house.  It is considered an "extension".
    
    Since we wanted to keep our current number, and won't be moving
    for a while, we thought this would be the best solution.
    
    In the old days there was a way to dial your own number from home
    and make the phone ring, so that someone else in the house could
    pick up the extension.  This would be real handy if someone in
    the new house wanted to call someone in the old house.  (Are you
    still with me ???)  Well, given the new modular, 21st century 
    technology, is there any way to do this ?
    
    ...rke
    

In Lunenburg, I dial my own number, then hang up.  It rings.

This varies by phone exchange.  You could try calling your phone company's
service office to see if they can tell you.

			Steve

    
    
      I used to dial 981-#### (last 4 digits in your number.  Then hang up
    twice.   I haven't tried it in quite sometime, but it used to work.
    
    
    -Dean

    When I was a lad, I used to dial a phone number owned by the phone
    company.  Hang up.  My phone would then ring.  I got the number from
    a friend who's father worked for the phone company.  I think they would
    use it to test new installations.  Don;t recall the number.
    
    Let us know what works.  One sure way to get my daughters attention ;-)
    
    Mark

	FWIW, there is a whole conference dedicated to telephones
	at 12dot2::telephones

	press SELECT now to add it to your notebook ....

    How about a note rating the cordless phone of your choice.
    
    I have/had a AT&T 5200 that the microphone just died.  AT&T said it
    would be ~$50 to fix, so I'm planning on buying new instead.  There
    are two that I am looking at:
    
    AT&T 5480
    
    and
    
    SONY (10-channel- don't know model #).
    
    
    Was wondering if anyone has any information about either of these
    models and/or you could recommend a different one.
    
    (w/ my kids starting to use the phone, a flexible antenna 
    has become a MUST item now)
    
    Thanks
    
    John
    
    (cross posted in CONSUMER and TELEPHONES but I don't think that they're
    getting too much use.)

    There's a notes file on telephones.  You should probably ask there.
    
    Elaine

    Thanks Elaine, I did check and ask there but that note is very outdated 
    and there is little activity in that notefile.  
    
>================================================================================
>Note 5524.0                   Cordless Phone Rating                      1 reply
>LANDO::OBRIEN "Give it a TRI"                        25 lines   2-MAR-1995 16:29
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    
>    (cross posted in CONSUMER and TELEPHONES but I don't think that they're
>    getting too much use.)
    
    
    -John
    

        RE:.0

   > (w/ my kids starting to use the phone, a flexible antenna 
   > has become a MUST item now)

    	John if this is a concern you might want to get a Cobra cordless
    like the one that I have I forget the model name and number but it's 10
    channel with a 9 number memory and no antenna on either the hand set or
    the base.

    Joe

    
    FWIW I just bought a Panasonic cordless with tape answering machine.
    The manual stated several times that the rectractable flexible antenna
    was *not* designed for rough handling.   The kind of overstatement that
    gives me the distinct impression that this component is the weak spot
    in the design.  You might want to stay away from this "feature" if your
    kids are going to use it a lot.
    
    Colin
    

    We had a Panasonic cordless with answering machine and hated it.  The
    reception was fair, the distance wasn't very good and the answering
    machine was always on the fritz.  We snapped the retractable antenna a
    long time ago and this was with non-abuse by 2 adults.
    
    We've replaced it with the Sony and love it.  Reception is great,
    distance is very good and the antenna is a short hard stub that even
    our almost 3 year old hasn't bothered.
    
    The only thing that isn't great about the Sony is the volume control
    for the answering machine, even on high you have to stand right on top
    of the speaker to hear your messages.
    
    /Susan

	I'll put in my 2 cents for Cininnati Microwave's "Escort" (no not the 
	radar detector, they make phones also) its in the 900 mghtz freq range, 
	and is very clear, has all the common niceities, I've used one, but 
	don't yet own one, It will be my next phone purchase tho'. You can 
	see thier ads in a varitey of magizines, I notice them in Home or 
	Car mags most often.

	SteveT.

    
    
    I received as a gift a AT&T which I select best frequency/clarity from
    10 channels .... Is that going to be a pain in relation to the auto. 
    selecting of channels for best frequency/clarity ?
    
    I would think selecting manually the best channel would be a hassle.
    
    Comemnts ?

    The thing that I don't like about my AT&T cordless is that when trying
    to walk thru a "voice-mail" type of call where many numbers could 
    potentially be punched, the AT&T seems to have a limit on how many
    numbers can be punched in.  After that limit, punching in additional
    numbers has no effect!  The tone associated with punching in a number
    doesn't even sound.
    
    Has anyone else noticed this?
    	-TB

    Hm.. exact opposite of my experience with our panasonic cordless
    phone+answering machine..
    
    Works fine. Reception throughout the house (the base is on one end) is
    fine, except in the basement office where there are generally "several"
    pieces of equipment that are not quite FCC Class-B 8-). We had the
    previous one for several years (until it was toasted by lightning), and
    the antenna never showed any signs of trouble.
    
    So, I guess YMMV..
    
    ...tom

    Conversely, the sony we had (the 10-channel, flexible-antenna, top of
    the line at the time) was lousy.. it would keep losing track of what
    channel it was supposed to be on, change channels in the middle of a
    call (and generally fail to complete the change, causing the call to
    drop), and the case failed on the first drop.
    
    ...tom

    I've got the Uniden not sure on the model its about $60..
    10 channels, excellent range and clarity, stubby flex ant,
    very durable I've dropped it at least 5 times and no damge.
    
    Liked it so much we got another for my wifes shop.  My sister
    has the Sony (around $110) and the Uniden is comparable at �
    the price.
    
              Dean

    
    Consumer reports did some reviews. Best buy and quality was one of
    the AT&T machins at around 60$ on sale. Sony wasn't rated as high
    as I expected.
    
    

    	Wow, 2-3 recommendations against a relatively safe and simple DIY job
    in a DIY notesfile. Now there's an alarming trend. Since when has having 
    to "buy new tools" been considered a negative thing around here ? Are we 
    getting old and soft or what ;-)
    
    	Well, my cut at it is if you pay someone to do it, you'll likely
    never learn how. Sure you can pick up that how-to book later and try to
    learn, but how many will ? Plus, there's nothing like actual hands on to 
    really commit the knowledge. 
    
    	Aside from the confidence you gain to tackle future related projects, 
    there's a certain sense of satisfaction in learning something new in a DIY 
    project. Speaking for myself, this more than compensates me for the time
    and expense of running around.
    
    	Ray

    
    If your building a new house, or can do it in the existing house. 
    Have the tel and cable company bring their wires to the house as
    they do, but have them bring the wire in the attic, not the basement.
    
     Install a conduit from the attice to the basement. Then you can run
    both the tel and cable in the conduit to the basement elec panel 
    location, or wherever to pickup the house connections. 
    
    Why do all this. Thieves like to cut wires, to disarm security
    systems. So if it's up high. there's less chance. Unless they use
    a ladder, and if they're going to go to that trouble well...
    
    

RE 229:

It must be that UNION thing...They don't like it when people figure out they can
do it themselves and save $$$. I figure if I buy a drill bit for ~$5 some wire
for ~$15 and a block for $5-10 and take some time to do some "homework" to
figure out how to get it done I'm still ahead by over $70. Well worth the
effort. I may be unique (I just spent ~2 months of ALL my free time doing the
interior painting myself to save $2k) but I'll give it a shot. 

Re 230: Too late. The wire already comes up to the house from the ground
(underground utilities) so bringing it up to the attic isn't an option. I do
have two "chases" installed from the basement to the attic for future wiring and
plumbing. 

from .225: >>>About the only thing that's easier is interior painting.

Hey, I'm ready to graduate ;-)! If it doesn't involve a paintbrush, let me at it!

Steve B. 

I had an extra phone line run in awhile ago.  The line installer asked me how I
wanted things done and I told HER I'd take care of it myself.  She told me to
be SURE and use weather resistent write from the outside box to the inside and
gave me around 25' or so of the stuff...

-mark

Well I went to radio shack and found their prices to be a bit high and the clerk
knew NOTHING about wiring phones. I think I already knew more than he did. They
wanted $12 for 15 feet of phone wire. The wiring block was another 12. 

Went to Home Depot instead. Talked to a clerk that was an ELECTRICIAN. He showed
me exactly what I needed. Got fifty feet of phone wire for ~$5 (only need 15' or
so), a wiring block for ~$8 and in the Home_work tradition splurged on a 18"
long drill bit (for those hard to reach places) for ~$9. Good thing the wife
wasn't with me (she has the "line item veto") ;-). Spent a total of ~22 for the
lot. 

Went to the house to check on things and ended up getting started on my phone
project. Got half done in about ~20 minutes. I put the wiring block into place
and connected the jacks that the electrician had installed. The only hard part
was stopping the bleeding when I cut my thumb on one of the terminals (RAZOR
SHARP, didn't know I cut myself 'till I saw blood). All that's left to do is
drill the hole to the outside and run the wire from the box out the hole near
the phone company wire. I figure another 15 minutes of work. 

I think I'll leave instructions for the phone company technician to please
install the NI on top of the wire hole. Then I'll seal around the box when
they're done. If they don't do as I ask, no big deal, I'll just fill the hole
around the wire with silicone.

This was one of the simplest projects I've tackled so far. If I did it right and
it works, that is. I'll know in a week or so when the phone company connects it
all up. 

Thanks as usual for the advice.

Steve B.

Just an update: 

The phone company came and hooked it all up this morning. 

I wish Nynex would get their story straight about their installation service.
They told me two important things that were false. First they told me that we
didn't need to be there. The technician arrived, hooked up our line then
proceeded to call my wife at work to have her let him into the house so he could
ground it. They better not charge me the $100 for that!! 

The other thing they told me that was false was that they wouldn't hook up the
wire that actually goes into the house. That wasn't part of the service. This
irritated me a bit, but with my current phone-wiring confidence boosted by my
freshly completed project I knew I could do the final hookup. I actually figured
that the technician would see the wire and take the 30 seconds or so to complete
the hookup. I was right. 

Anyway, my wife called me from our freshly connected phone after the technician
left. 

This was REALLY simple, and I definitely recommend it as a DIY project. There
isn't much information about it out there, I found. But I think it's because it
is SO SIMPLE. There probably isn't much info out there on how to tie your shoe
either. 

Most of the info I got was from HOME_WORK, the Radio Shack phone manual (that I
skimmed in the store) and from the electrician/clerk at Home Depot. He just
basically confirmed what I already had figured out (answered most of my
questions with nods and grunts). 

Next project: garage door openers!

Thanks again,

Steve B.  

I think NYNEX has changed several times in recent years.  I've had several
phone lines put in for various reasons over the past few years.  The first time
they hooked up, they brought the wire into a block in the basement and left
this "Network Interconnect", basically a modular phone jack with a
spring-loaded cover that locks the plug into it.  Next time, they ran another
4-conductor wire in to another Network interconnect.  Next time, they just
connected the new line to another pair in one of the 4-conductor wires.  And
the last time, they (I think) replaced the outside connection block with a new
user-accessible one and just left the pair from the pole connected in there,
and *I* had to connect up the remaining pair going inside.  I don't believe
they needed access to the house the last time, though.  In fact I almost think
the connection block outside has a ground (can't remember for sure).

Burns

Oh, I remember...the ground has always run from my water pipe inside out the
the outside connection block.  Thus, they probably need access only for the
first time the hook up a block.

Burns

>>Oh, I remember...the ground has always run from my water pipe inside out the
>>the outside connection block.  Thus, they probably need access only for the
>>first time the hook up a block.

Mine runs to a ground rod that the electrical service connects to also.

bjm

    When the battery of my cordless needs recharging it ties up my phone
    line.  It's like someone left a phone off the hook.  Even after I put
    the phone back in it's base to be recharged my line is still busy.  The
    easy answer is to make sure the battery never needs recharging.  But
    for those times when we mess up...  Is there anyway make the line know
    that the phone is back on the hook?

    What brand of cordless phone do you have?  We've had both AT&T and
    Sony, and in both cases putting the handset in the recharging cradle
    still leaves the phone "on the hook" - meaning calls can come in.
    Perhaps there's a programming "method" with your phone that 
    enables/disables this feature.  To be honest, most every phone
    I've seen allows incoming calls while the handset is recharging....
    
    andy
    

    It's a Radio Shack.
    
    It allows incoming calls if I get it back on the charger before the
    battery runs out.  It's only when the battery runs out that there's a
    problem.  Like the time it got lost under the couch (a fold out bed my
    daughter was using while home sick).  That time I unplugged the base
    from the system and about a day and a half later it came back to life. 
    It was a good week before we found the phone.  8-}

    	Just disconnect the base from the phone line (assuming you have
    multiple lines/phones). Once it's charged up, plug the phone line back
    in. You may want to pick-up a cheap non-portable to use as a spare when
    or if this happens.
    
    	

    That's what I did the time it got lost under the couch.  That was when
    it took a day and a half to reset itself.  I'm beginning to think the
    easy solution is to buy a new portable that doesn't have this problem. 
    Or become more disciplined about recharging it on a nightly basis.

    well, if you get a new one, I highly recommend one with a "page"
    function.. so you can find the handset when "Not Me" manages to find a
    creative place to leave it..
    
    ...tom

... assuming, of course, that you "page" it before the battery dies ;-).

I'm very happy with my Motorola 10-channel 2-line frequency-scrambling
phone.  Clear sound, beeps when you "page" it until you find it.  Price was
the only thing I didn't like, I think ~$180.

>I'm very happy with my Motorola 10-channel 2-line frequency-scrambling
>phone.  Clear sound, beeps when you "page" it until you find it.  Price was
>the only thing I didn't like, I think ~$180.
    
    Regrettably, performance is still not free.

    re: .243 (TEKVAX::KOPEC)
    
    	:-)  You've been eavesdropping in my house!

Eavesdropping is easy when you use a cordless phone.