Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    	Yup, know all about them Sears fridges,  I do.   Mine is about
    12 years old and looking at the ones in the stores, they don't seem
    to have changed them very much.   There_is/should_be a little size
    lever on the side of the ice maker itself that moves across a scale
    graduated large-small and called "ice size", or something like that.
    Anyway, the amount of water you get is determined by the water
    pressure, and the time the water valve is open, [Time * flow rate =
    volume].  This little lever affects the opening time of the water valve
    by moving the micro switch around relative to the cam.   If you
    can't adjust enough toward "large", then check your water pressure
    *AT THE ICEMAKER ITSELF*.  This is important because the usual way
    they are connected is with 1/8 copper pipe and a saddle valve onto
    a cold water line, if the installation was not done properly, or
    if the pipe has become kinked, due to moving for cleaning under/behind
    the fridge, then the pressure will be low due to constricted flow.
    
    	Reg
    

    On the subject of icemakers, does anyone know of a flexible tubing
    to go from the saddle valve to the freezer?  The copper makes
    moving the unit a bit of a problem.
    
    -joet

    re .2	The copper tube is OK if you coil it up behind the fridge
    and stand it in a vertical loop there, its kinks you have to watch
    out for.  I've seen hard plasic used for this, it would also need
    a service loop to allow moving for cleaning under and behind the
    unit.
    
    	Reg
    
    

     Has anyone attempted  repair on an ice maker in their freezer.
    I'd love to hear a suggestion or two.
    
    j
    

I'm usually willing to try to fix anything once.  However, if you need some
assistance you'll need to supply more information.  Is it making too much ice?
not enough?  is the ice missing the bucket? etc...

There are probably a whole lot of problems, each would have a different 
solution.

-mark

    I'm an expert in this area, so give us some more data and we'll
    give it a shot.
    
    -joet
    
    P.S. The manufacturer's name would be nice.

    RE:
    
    The refrigerator is a Sears Coldspot.
    
    The trouble started one day when the power to the house went out
    for a few hours. The next day we noticed that the frige was not
    working. The power was on and the blower was working, but the air
    was warm. So I cleaned the dust and grime off the freon lines,turned
    the frige on and off a couple of times and low and behold the air
    had turned cold. The next day I noticed that the Ice maker was not
    doing its thing. I did notice that the tray was turning around and
    around.
    
    j.
    

      It sounds like your timer needs to be reset, or it may be broken.
    In ref. with ice makers, it is usually in the icemaker. There should
    be some directions around it on how to reset it. This timer controls
    all of the functions of the refrigerator, incl. defrost timing and
    ice making timing, also when the compressor is allowed to run.
    
    					Kenny

    re: .3
    
    Is there water in the tray? 
    
    From your description, it seems that, at least at first, your freezer
    wasn't freezing.  How long does it take, say, a salad bowl full of tap
    water to freeze solid, now? 
    
    When you say that "the tray was turning around and around", is it doing
    it periodically (every hour or so), or is it constant?  If the ejector
    is rotating constantly, does it stop when you flip up the "the tray
    is full" wire?
    
    -joet

    RE:.5
    
    The tray never fills with water.
    The tray constantly rotates,but does stop when the bar is engaged.
    
    j
    

      My freezer also has an icemaker unit which I turned off and 
    removed the copper piping when I moved the fridge.  This may
    or may not be related to my problem, the freezer compartment does
    not work.  I have tried playing around with the temperature settings
    and the humidity switch to no avail.  The fridge portion is fine,
    but the freezer can't keep anything frozen.
      Any ideas?
      Linda

    I saw other icemaker notes but none that deal with my problem.
    
    I have an icemaker in a 2 year old sears fridge that does fine on
    making ice. The problem I have is the ice tastes terrible.
    At first I thought the problem was ice that had been sitting
    there for a long time and had picked up freezer odors.
    I threw away the ice for several loads and the taste is still there.
    
    The water connect is to a cold water line via plastic tubing the
    kind sold specificly for icemakers. The actual connection to the
    water pipe is before the water sofener which I have disabled.
    
    Anyone have any ideas or dealt with this before? Suggestions?
    
    With summer almost here I want to have plenty of (tasteless) ice
    ready for use. As is I'm afraid to even use it in a cooler.
    
    Thanx in advance,jerry
    

The first thought that comes to mind is is it in the icemaker or the water line.

Perhaps the place to start is to fill up a glass with water from the feed line
and taste/smell it.  This should at least point you in the right direction.

-mark

    The water tastes fine it is the same water used in the rest of the
    house. It must be the icemaker that is making the bad taste but
    how? It worked fine for quite awhile and then staarted this.
    Nothing else stored in the freezer has picked up this taste.
    It is very present in what ever you use the ice cubes in.
    I wasted a whole shot of jack daniels the other night.
    I HAVE TO GET THIS FIXED!
     
    
    -jerry
    

    No really, .1 has a good idea. I've seen some weird stuff growing
    in plastic tubing. YOu might have some, and it might be tainting
    the water after it leaves the pipe and before it gets to the icemaker.
    And it's probably the easiest thing to check.
    
    After eliminating the tubing as the problem source, I would rip
    out the icemaker and clean it thoroughly.

You might also try making some ice 'the old fashioned way', ie manual ice
trays with water from various sources in your house, and see if there is
any difference between them...

Jim.

    Jerry,
    
    A few more suggestions.
    
    Does your refrigerator owner's guide have a troubleshooting section
    which deals with problems/symptoms in the icemaker?
    
    Have you talked to the Sears appliance people about what could be
    a probable cause ?
    
    One of the other replies mentioned something growing in the plastic
    water line feeding the icemaker.  If you have this condition and that
    causes the bad taste/smell, it may also be unhealthy.  Would it
    be worth it to you to have a water test done on one of your melted 
    ice cubes for harmful organisms?
    
    Good luck,
    
    JPM
    

    
    One other diagnostic would be to do the converse of .1:
    turn off the water feed to the icemaker, fill the icemaker
    tray from (pre-tasted, "good") tap-water, and taste those
    ice cubes.  Between these two, you should be able to determine
    whether the taste is coming from the water feed, or the
    icemaker itself.  In either case, once you have found the problem
    it should be possible to thoroughly clean the offending parts
    and be rid of the problem.  Just be sure to rinse everything
    VERY WELL after cleaning!  Jack Daniels/cleanser is NOT a good
    mix (;-)
    
    Kevin

    These are all good ideas.. I will follow up after trying them this
    weekend.. 
    
    Thank you, jerry
    

    Well last night I unhooked the water supply from the back of the
    fridge. The water that comes thru the line has a slight "garden
    hose" taste to it. I also filled the ice tray with water from a
    glass and waited for it to freeze. The ice dident have a strong
    taste like the other cubes but still tasted a little funny.
    
    So I reconnected it and then filled the tray with a bleach/water
    mix and will try tasting it after it has had a few days to purge
    the bleach.
    
    Right now I tend to think the plastic line is adding the bad taste
    to the water. My question is why would it start adding taste where
    it dident before? The line looks clear and dosent appear to have
    any dirt or misc junk in it. This tubing was purchased as part of
    and icemaker instal kit where you get pinchcock,tubing and fittings.
    Would the plastic tubing give a taste?
    
    I could rip out the plastic and install copper tubing but then
    it would be near impossible to move the fridge out for cleaning,ect.
    It also seems that it would be difficult to push it back without
    kinking or breaking the copper tubing.
    
    -jerry
    

< Note 1132.8 by NEXUS::GORTMAKER "the Gort" >

>    I could rip out the plastic and install copper tubing but then
>    it would be near impossible to move the fridge out for cleaning,ect.
>    It also seems that it would be difficult to push it back without
>    kinking or breaking the copper tubing.
    
	This past weekend I connected up the ice maker on my new fridge with a 
kit from Sears.  It came with 25 ft of �" copper tubing.  The instructions say 
to make 3 10" coils, this is about 8' of tubing, in back of the fridge to
allow for moving it out.  This is what I did and everything seems fine.  I
haven't noticed any taste in the water or ice so far. 

jp

as .-1 said, putting a few coils in the tubing is all it takes.  Tubing this
size is VERY flexible (unlike 1/2 inch piping).

-mark

    I happen to have about 100' of 1/4" a renter left in my house
    i will give it a try. I'll let you all know if it clears up the
    taste. As I had said in an earlier note I put bleach water in the
    tray for the icemaker. The taste is not as strong but is still there.
    I hope this will cure the problem. I havent called sears for help
    yet I prefer to avoid dealing with them at all cost(well almost
    all).
    
    Thx,jerry
    

    
      Are timers used in most icemakers, as described by .1 ?  I recently
    moved, and it would be awkward to run tubing to the nearest water
    pipe (the sink is on a different wall, with a doorway in between,
    and I'm in a second floor condo, so no under the floor solutions).
    
      So I'm considering having a "tank" above the fridge to hold water.
    Ideally, if the icemaker switched off based on water level, then
    I could get away with just about any setup.  If I need a specific
    (range of) pressure, then I guess I have to dig out the old statics
    textbook and figure out the water depth necessary.
    
      Any ideas ?
    
    (this would be great for y-people - ice from perrier ?)
    
    \chuck

    Well, no answer, so I'll ask some follow up questions:
    
    o What is the usual range of water pressure in household pipes ?
    
    o What is the formula for calculating water pressure given a depth
       of water (I couldn't find my statics book - must of sold it back
       when I was a poor student :-)
    
    Thanks !
    
    \chuck

    Re. Water Pressure
    
    For a house with a well it depends on the control switches for the
    pump. The range usually is set at 20 - 40 PSI. So your water pressure
    varyies between these two limits. 
    
    For public water it depends on the city/town and location and the
    possibilites range from 30 - to over 100 PSI. 

    Where I am, the town is supplying about 125 PSI and they STRONGLY
    recommend a pressure reducer, which I have. The pressure reducer comes
    pre-set at 50 PSI but is ajustable to 25 - 75 PSI. 
    
    Does this answer your question? :-) 
    

    It sounds like 30 - 50 is what would be considered normal and
    desirable. 

    Charly

    re: .6
    Water pressure: from a home well, it depends on how the pressure
    switch is set; generally, 20-40 or 30-50 psi.  From a municipal
    supply, it can be higher, but I'd guess it would be in the 50-60
    psi range.  If you have a municipal water supply you probably have
    a pressure regulator in your water line, just past the meter.
    
    Water pressure as a function of depth:  water weighs 62.4 lbs/cubic
    foot, so divide 62.4 by 12x12x12 (cubic inches per cubic foot) to get 
    pounds per cubic inch, then multiply that value by the depth of
    the water in inches to get psi.

    re .6, .8
    
    As a sanity check for your calculation, standing water pressure
    increases by 14.7-psi for every 34' of water depth (a meterology tidbit).

    Thanks for the data - apparently a tank of water above the 'frig
    is not going to come 'anywhere' near 20 PSI :-).
    
    So - the other possibility - does anyone know whether or not automatic
    icemakers use timers or water level sensors to determine when to
    turn the water on and off ?  
    
    If it depends upon the manufacturer, I've got a recent model GE.  My 
    problem is that it isn't (very) feasible to run water to it.
      

    The GE my folks have goes by weight.  The tray sits on a spring
    loaded rack.  The water will keep on coming until the weight of
    the tray causes the rack to move, shuting the switch off.  There
    is an adjustable switch which can be set to any shutoff rate.

    Along with our new refrigerator and new icemaker attachment, we
    got a standard installation kit, complete with plastic tubing and
    self-tapping saddle fitting.  After looking at the pipes in the
    basement underneath the refrigerator, I'm not sure that the saddle
    fitting is the right way to go.
    
    The basement pipe comes off cold water supply and dead-ends
    approximately underneath the refrigerator.  The dead end has the
    typical shutoff valve, followed by a short stretch that terminates
    in a screw fitting with a nut.  When I unscrewed the nut, there
    was what appeared to be a small brass sleeve.  The whole arrangement
    seems similar to the compression fitting that came with the
    installation kit, though I wouldn't swear to it.  The compression
    fitting in the kit is intended to be connect the plastic tubing
    to a short piece of copper tube at the refrigerator end.
    
    Can I ignore the saddle fitting, put the brass insert
    from the kit into the plastic tube, and then connect the tube directly
    to the dead-end in the basement?  That is, can I use the same
    arrangement that gets used at the other end to connect the plastic
    to the refrigerator?
    
    Would I be better off getting copper tubing instead of the plastic?
    
    Thanks,
    
      Gary

    This will be the dumb plumbing question of the day.
    
    I need to disconnect and reconnect a compression fitting.  Compression
    fittings use a brass ring that goes inside the nut, and outside the
    pipe.  Is this ring reusable, or is it distorted the first time the
    fitting is tightened?  Likewise, is the end of the pipe reusable, or
    should I cut off a bit to make a fresh connection?  In this case, I'm
    dealing with 1/4 inch flexible copper. 

       Gary
    
    PS In case you're wondering, this is for our icemaker.  The plumbing
    is all fine, but I want to drill a new hole in the floor, closer
    to the wall, so that I can get the refrigerator closer to the wall.

gary,

yes you can, but no you shouldn't. once the collet is distorted,
there's a chance that the collet will leak. the leak takes place
from solenoid operated water valves as in the ice maker, dish
washer, washing machines or lawn sprinklers. besides, the collets
are about 25 cents each.

cal

    Yup, cut off the tubing right behind where the ring is/was,
    invest 10 cents (I can't believe they cost 25 cents, but
    maybe they do!) in a new ring, and reassemble.

Time for another refrigerator problem. The freezer in our refrigerator died
again and I know why, I'm just not sure I know the best way to go about fixing
it. 

We've got an automatic icemaker and for those who don't know how they work,
there's a miniature ice cube tray (hold about 5 little icecubes) that has what
look like copper pistons under each cube.  The tray fills with water and after 
a certain amout of time the pistons push the ice out and the cycle repeats.

In my case, the pistons jam, causing the motor to overheat and the heat defrosts
the freezer!  The pistons are almost too hot to touch and part of the plastic
on the icemake is even charred from the heat.

My wife heard this is one of the reasons one shouldn't have an icemaker if you 
have hard water - the water causes buildups that jam the mechanism.

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of this?  I plan to call the GE
consumer line, but they don't necessarily always have the best answers.

-mark

>    Causing the motor to overheat and the heat defrost the freezer!
>    The pistons are almost too hot to touch and part of the plastic on the
>    icemake is even charred from the heat. 

    I don't think it's the motor doing this, many Auto-Icemakers have a
    heating element that comes on briefly to heat the ice mold so that the
    ice cubes can be ejected. It sounds like yours is stuck ON! 
    
    I have a GE icemaker also but mine is the half circle type with
    rotating "fingers" that push the cubes out. Mined failed recently and I
    called the GE Hotline and got to talk to a fairly technical person that
    could answer all the questions that I had. 
    
    In the end I wound up buying a new ice maker because the cost of the
    replacement parts about half the cost of a new unit. 
    
    Mine "failed" by refilling with water MORE THAN ONCE after dumping a
    batch of ice. FORTUNATELY we were home when it decided to break and
    water started overflowing the ice cube tray and storage bucket and into
    the freezer! This mode of failure was the MAIN REASON we decided to buy
    a new unit rather than trying to repair the old one. 

    Charly

    It's only been a year or so since the questions were asked and I just
    installed one, so I'll answer with what I know about it:
    
    My Hotpoint came with instructions recommending that I not use plastic 
    because it becomes brittle with time and because the line is always
    under pressure.
    
    If there is a shutoff valve and a 1/4" O.D. compression fitting,
    that's all you need.
    
    ed

    Having just hooked up the icemaker in my new fridge, I thought I'd
    pass on a little more info related to the question in the base
    note.

    When I first hooked it up, I got only three or four ice cubes at a
    time, rather than eight.  Since we have very good water pressure
    in the house, I was concerned that there might be something wrong
    with the icemaker.  So, I called the place that does the warranty
    work on my fridge (Amana, 22 ft�, top freezer).

    I described the problem and the first question he asked me was,
    "Did you use a self-piercing valve?"  Yup, says I.  That's your
    problem, he says.  The Amana uses a timer and the self-piercing
    valves restrict the water flow too severely.

    So, I went out and got a drill-through valve the following weekend
    (day before yesterday) and put it in (1/4" hole) and I now get
    eight ice cubes at a time.  That was clearly the problem.

    As for the kind of pipe to use, the guy that delivered the fridge
    warned against using plastic.  He said that they break all the
    time when people move the fridge, usually because they run over
    it.  He suggested what was suggested in a previous reply:  use
    copper and coil it.  That is what I did (bent it around a coffee
    can) and I can easily move the fridge a couple of feet from the
    wall without stressing anything.

    Sid

    My advice on self-piercing valves is "don't bother".   I had leaking
    problems with two of them on one icemaker installation job.  The
    problem was finally solved by a permanent joint with a shutoff.  Even
    if they do work initially, they are so fragile that if you happen to
    hit it accidentally you can easily move the seating and you're left
    with major problems.

    
    We have just given ourselves a "parents day" present in the form of
    a new ice-maker for our Sears fridge. We got the 'maker, and the 
    copper pipe (water line) kit.
    
    However, neither of them, nor the refriderator, contain a valve which
    should be connected to the fridge to turn the water on/off. How does
    this happen? Luck? 
    
    The 'maker does not have any on/off valve for the water line, only an
    'inlet'. 
    
    The pipe kit has two valves for connections to the main supply. One
    piercing, one drilled. Neither seem to be able to turn the water off.
    
    The back of the fridge has a direct feed-through called the 'fitting,
    water tube' where I can send the water through the cabinet.
    
    Am I to assume that the icemaker will fill with water, and the back
    pressure will keep the fridge from filling with water?
    
    And if this is the case, why is there an electrical connector in the
    bottom of the fridge, called the 'wiring, water valve'. Which 
    coincidentally is the same color code as two wires which exit the
    icemaker and connect to the fridge via a connector. (and when you
    take off the icemaker cover, there is a mention of a 'water valve'
    in the list of test points on the timer.)
    
    So, I talked to the Sales-type, and he says he's never heard of
    needing a water valve! 
    
    Anybody got some knowledge to spare?
    
    bld
    

The icemaker has an electronically controlled valve that turns on the water
whenever it's time to make a new batch of ice.  If the installation instructions
for the icemaker are halfway reasonable, then it should work just fine.  I 
don't think it's necessary for them to the details of what each wire does; 
simply saying "plug this in here" should be enough for the average DIY
installer, who isn't going to be interested in diagnosing problems.  Don't 
expect to be able to see the valve.  It's hidden inside the mechanism.  They
don't have a robot hand coming out to turn a knob.

Nevertheless, it makes very good sense to have a manual cut-off valve that you
can use as backup.  From your note, it sounds as if the two valves you
have for making the connections to the water supply serve that purpose.  What
makes you say they don't seem able to turn the water off?

   Gary

    Unfortunately, it didn't come with any instructions. Sigh.
    
    Yah, I can even live with plugging in something without them telling
    me to. The point is, there is no connection on the icemaker for
    a water line to connect to, just an 'inlet' which is a square
    cup with a small outlet at the bottom into the ice tray, nor is
    there any mention in the parts diagram for the Fridge for a
    *electric* valve to be used by the icemaker for starting & stopping the 
    water flow. I believe we are in agreement that the valve used to
    connect the 1/4" line to the 1/2" water line will work correctly.
    
    bld
    
    

    When I plumbed the connection for our Fridge, I wanted a shutoff also.
    I had to have shutoff values at all other facets and indoor plumbing,
    why not one for the fridge.  Well after much searching, the local DIY
    superstore start carrying a plastic box with a metal shutoff value
    which had a 1/2 inch connection for the water source side and a 1/4
    connection for the fridge ice maker side.  It looks like a smaller
    version of the boxes commonly used for washer connections.  
    
    You cut a hole in the sheetrock, fit the 1/2 inch supply stub thru the
    provided hole in the plastic box, fit box in newly cut hole in
    sheetrock, connect the shutoff value to the supply stub, put trim ring
    on plastic box.  Now you have a recessed box with a shutoff value and
    the proper size connection to fit the fridge ice maker connection.
    
    Comes in the standard "almond" plastic color.  About $8 if I remember.
    

    
    That's interesting, but isn't what I'm after. 
    
    I got a call back from the Sears Repair line. BUT, the person had
    never worked on an icemaker before, and was little help. She wrote
    down what I was trying to do, and would contact a Tech. 
    
    probably more tomorrow...

    The needle taps that they usually provide for icemakers do serve
    as a valve.  You clamp the tap on the pipe, then turn the valve handle
    until the needle pierces the pipe.  Then you back off a bit to start
    the water flowing.  You can tighten it back down to stop the flow.
    I have one of these for my furnace humidifier.
    
    		Steve

If there's a Sears repair centre near you, go there and take a
look at the service manual for your refrigerator. All my Sears
appliances have instructions to add options to product in the
owner's manual. A owner's manual will cost you about $7 or so.

cal

    
    I finally found someone at Sears who was able to take the 8150 number
    and convert it to a model number. Then I called Manchester Parts
    and get them to put 1 aside for me. I piked it up yesterday and left
    the original (wrong) one. Only $3 more for the correct icemaker, and
    it has the  $17.99 water valve, and a new ice-bin! 
    
    I hooked it all up last night, except the water works, and everything
    went well. They provided a very good set of instructions too.
    
    Ben

To clear up the confusion here, I looked up the instructions for ours and 
realized that there was a part I was missing, just as you found.  In our case,
we mounted the water valve at the bottom of the refrigerator, where the wiring
connects directly.  The water line went into the valve, and there is an 
additional plastic tube, already connected to the valve, that runs up the back
of the refrigerator to the input tube of the ice maker.  

So you were right about there being a separate part, at least for your and for
mine.

   Gary

    I've got a 4 year old Sears refigerator that came with a built-in ice
    maker, thus no ice maker instructions, etc.  It has stopped making ice.
    I have verified that water is entering the refrigerator at the inlet at
    the bottom of the unit, but no water is in the maker.  I don't know if
    the rotating fingers that push the ice out rotate.
    
    What should I do next?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

Well, I got ambitious over the weekend, (I've been known to break things when
I do this) and pulled out the icemaker.  Before I did this, I noticed that it
appeared to be leaking water into the ice catcher tray.  I also pulled off the
front cover and saw that there were 2 gears.  One small metal gear and one
large plastic gear.  The plastic gear was not in contact with the metal gear.
The hole in the plastic gear is D-shaped and part of the vertical part of the
D was broken.

It turns out there are 3 bracket-like attachments, two on the top and one on
the bottom of the icemaker that hold it in the freezer.  The power comes from
what looks like one of those old-style modular phone jacks, with the 4 prongs.
I guess that 2 are power for the icemaker and 2 are for control information to
the water line.  I pulled the unit out and sat it on a level surface and filled
it with water.  No leak.  I wonder if the broken plastic gear was causing the
water level to be set incorrectly.

Bob

I got a new gear and replaced it last night.  This morning I had ice and no
water leak, so I guess the big plastic gear somehow affects how much water
is let into the icemaker.

Bob

    My mother's freezer is making her icecubes taste HORRIBLE.
    They bought the plastic balls to freeze for cold drinks and
    can't figure out how to fix the problem.  
    
    Any ideas?
     Thanks!

    My parents had the same thing happen. Not just ice, but close to just
    about everything.
    
    Turned out the refrigerator was leaking refrigerant. 
    
    While I can't describe the taste, I'm SURE I'd recognize it if I tasted
    it again. For some reason "rotten eggs" or sulphur come to mind but it
    was years ago.
    
    Edd

    thanks i will have them check that.  It's not everything tho...just
    the icecubes...I can't describe it either....disgusting but i don't
    remember the taste you describe...although it was months ago i tasted 
    it.....everyone has avoided it since then!

    While this won't help your basic problem, nor improve the taste of the
    rest of the contents of your frezzer, it does help with ice cubes.
    
    Rinse the cubes before using 'em.  After just a short time in even the
    best of freezer environments, ice cubes take on some pretty horrible
    tastes.  But in this case the ugly is only skin deep and a quick rinse
    to get rid of the outer material gets down to your basic tap water you
    started with.
    
    I read this in a book called "Kitchen Science" whose author I can't
    recall.  Interesting.
    
    -- Kenny House (who always rinses his cubes nowadays)

    Is the freezer equipped with an automatic ice maker? If so,
    does it have a filter? If so, try changing the filter. 
    If the answers to any of the above is "No", then I defer to
    the previous replies.

    I had the same problem until I started using spring water.  I then
    bought a water filter that sits on the counter and as long as I filter
    the water, I don't get the smell or taste.
    
    Marie

    Is this a new icemaker installation?
    Did they flush out the pipe before using it?
    
    I just put in an ice maker, and the installation recommended flushing
    the pipe before hooking it up.  And even then, the first few sets of
    cubes had stuff in them.  I just tossed the first nights tray.
    
    Over time, older cubes develop freezer burn and/or (what's that fancy
    term) subliminate (eg: evaporate while frozen).  I usually toss them
    too.
    
    	FWIW, Dave.
    

    They do have an automatic icemaker...i told my mother about the filter
    and she said "it has a filter?" and told her to check the refrigerant
    
    Hopefully they can fix it...thanks for the suggestions!
    

	    I guess if you have an automatic ice dispenser, you have to 
	use it regularly (at 'least' every other day).  If you let it
	sit idle for long periods, the water starts to stagnate and it
	collects more minerals (copper and possibly lead, etc.) from 
	the pipes.

					Tim

    My folks had the frig man in to fix something and he told them it 
    was their brand new linoleum (SP??) floor that had fouled up the 
    ice....i forget exactly what he said...but it would take some time
    to stop it...it had permeated 

    I'm surprised that there is no note in here about hooking up the ice
    and water on a refrigerator.  We need to connect our refrigerator to
    the filter that will be installed under the kitchen sink.  The
    refrigerator is on the opposite side of the kitchen.  How do people
    usually run the supply tube?  Drill a hole through the bottom of the
    cabinet under the sink and through the floor and run the tube in the
    basement?  Where can I get plastic tubing for this?  The appliance
    dealer will only supply copper piping but since our water is coming
    from a reverse osmosis filter, we can't use copper because the water
    will eat away the copper.
    
    							John

Most any hardware store will have plastic tubing that is "drinking water
safe", in a variety of sizes and thicknesses, along with connectors.

			Steve

Tap into the closest cold water pipe in the basement and drill a hole in the 
floor in the back corner behind the fridge. Run the tubing through that hole 
and up to the supply connection for the fridge. Thats how its normally done. 

If you want RO water, and I assume you do, just make sure that the pipe you tap
is supplied by the RO unit.  

>    I'm surprised that there is no note in here about hooking up the ice
>    and water on a refrigerator.

There is.  See note 287.

This is closet note I could find.   Are they any tricks in making
sure that the compression fittings don't leak?

I'm putting a new sink and faucet. The hard part is connecting the
new 3/8 copper tubing to the valves. Any tricks in bending the
copper tubing?

Gim

>                        <<< Note 2579.3 by SLOAN::HOM >>>
>                     -< any trick to making a perfect fit >-

For the most part, be careful and make any bends gradual.  Avoids kinks and 
definately avoid any bends within 3-4" of where the compression fitting will be 
placed otherwise you run the risk of not being able to slide the threaded 
fitting and then the compression ring in place.

Some folks like to make it look real neat, so they use a tool to make the bends
gradual; the same tool assures that you do not get kinks. At your local
hardware outlet, you should be able to pick up this neat device; it looks like
a long spring, wound tightly.  You get the one that is sized so that its ID is
the size of your tubing OD.  You slide the spring over the tube and do the 
bending, the springs keeps it from kinking.

Bend the tubing; slide the threaded fitting on; slide the compression ring on,
keeping it very near to the end of the tube;  put the tube end into the
receiving fitting, continue to slide the tube in after the ring has bottomed
out; slide the threaded fitting over the assembly and carefully snug down the
assembly.  That seats the compression ring.  Then unthread everything, slaver a
layer of goop (pipe thread compound) over the ring and on the threads and
reassemble; this time tighten it all down and wipe it all clean.  The goop will
expand when wet and go a long ways to assuring you will not have a leak. 

Luck,

Dave

Thanks for the hint Dave.  I went down to Spags and bought one of
those coils. It cost a whole 85 cents.

The first attempt resulted in dripping water. After removing
the nut, I noticed the probem. The copper tubing needs
to go in EXACTLY at 90 degrees. Any other angle may cause
the nut to stop before setting perfectly. 

Faucet is now working perfectly.


Gim

    Hopefully, there are some ice maker debuggers still out there.  Here's
    my ice problem, anyone got some tips ?
    
    Everything worked fine for 2 years until I unplugged the refrigerator
    and moved it out of the kitchen and plugged it in again (new floors 
    installed in kitchen).  After moving frig back into its corner, the
    machine (Montgomery Wards) started acting up.  Not all ice drops from 
    the tray so that when the machine adds water it spills over and I have 
    1 block of ice in the cube storage box.
    
    I leveled the frig as close as possible to its original position.  
    Manually adding water (from the faucet) to the tray results in 1 good 
    batch.  Whenever the water comes from the ice maker, not all cubes drop
    and when water refills the tray, it overflows into the storage box.
    I cleaned the tray with vinegar to remove mineral buildup - same
    results.  The freezer temp has not been altered.  When the machine fills 
    the tray, the water level seems OK and the tray appears horizontal.  Why 
    are only a few cubes dropping from the upside down tray ?

    	Perhaps there's something in the line itself where moving the frig
    stirred things up. You might want to replace the filter to the
    ice-maker and see if the problem clears up after a few batches.
    
    	If it has a water dispenser, you may be able to purge the system
    somewhat by running that for a while. Other than that, I can't see why
    it would work when you pour water into the tray but not from the
    auto-fill.
    
    	Ray

        I had this happen too.  When the tray inverts and twists it was
        not shaking all the cubes loose with the resultant overflow you
        describe.  I tried cleaning the tray thoroughly with no success
        - the cubes just "hung  up" in the tray.  The "input" water was
        the correct amount to fill an  empty  tray  so that was not the
        problem.  I tried altering the temperature  -  no  joy.   I was
        about to source a new tray when the freezer died so we bought a
        new fridge/freezer and sent the old one to salvage.
        
        My best guess would be to try a new ice tray...
        
        Andy
        

    re:11
    
    	If you do have the water dispenser, this stores and chills the water. 
    If they use this to fill the tray, then there may be some sort of sediment
    built up in there. Moving the frig may have kicked up that sediment.
    	
    	As I mentioned, if you can manually fill the tray and it works, the
    only other variable would be the difference in the water from the tap
    vs. what is coming from the ice maker.
    
    	Ray
    
    BTW - Do you have an ice-maker filter installed ?

    I called the 'monkey wards' service center and described the problem.
    They suggested that I try a new ice tray - over time, mineral deposits
    build up and cannot be removed even with vinegar and soap/water.  Also
    tiny cracks can form in the tray and these can prevent the cubes from
    dropping.  
    
    I did observe failed 'cube dumps' a few times and noticed that the same 
    row/column cube locations were dropping, while the rest stayed in the tray.
    Not sure why the 1st batch was successful.  The only differences I know of 
    are that the  tray was at room temperature AND just cleaned when the 1st 
    batch was started.
    
    I replaced the tray Wednesday and every cycle since then has been
    successful.  This is the 1st time we have had trouble with the ice
    maker in 5 years.  I don't plan on moving the refrigerator for another
    5 years ...

     I am buying a refridgerator with the ice maker on the outside with the
    water gadget as well. my question is..has anybody ever hooked up the 
    copper wire that goes to the sink? Should I just get a plumber for this
    or could I do it myself? 
     
     Any inputs would be helpful.
    
     Chris

    
    These hookups are typically exceedingly simple. The shutoff valve is
    self-tapping. Follw instructions in the hookup kit.
    
    Clamp the valve to a handy cold water supply pipe using the supplied
    hardware. As it comes out of the package, the valve is fully opened.
    The first time you close it, a probe pierces the supply line and lets
    water flow into the valve.
    
    Then route the soft copper tube from the shutoff valve to the
    connection ont the fridge. Some tips:
    
    o  Bend gently, avoid kinking.
    
    o  Leave enough excess behind the fridge so that you'll be able to move
       the fridge out for cleaning; if this excess is formed into one or
       two wide loops, it will spring in and out naturally as you move the
       fridge.
    
    o  If you come up through the floor or through the side of a cabinet,
       make the hole as close as possible to the back wall; then position a
       piece of scrap wood to prevent the fridge from moving back too far
       and pinching the tube.
    
    Tighten all connections, open the valve, then sit back and watch the
    ice freeze.
    

	That small diameter soft copper tubing is a pain to work worth
	(too easy to kink, and impossible to un-kink it after you do).

	Go to Home Depot and instead pay the $5-8 for an ice maker install
	kit (or buy the parts individually) that contains plastic tubing,
	the self-tapping valve, and some compression rings/fittings.

	The plastic tubing is almost fool proof (IMHO :-)

    I'VE INSTALLED TWO.  It's easy to do.  The second one, instead of
    making a hole in my ceramic floor, I used a long 3/8 auger and
    drilled through the wallboard, 2x4 sole plate (?) and subfloor
    (having previously measured to assure that I wouldn't end up in
    a joist).  Getting the saddle clamp tight enough to keep the valve
    from leaking was more a problem the second time than the first
    though I don't know why.
    
    But trust me, it's so easy a moron could do it.  :-)
    
    ed
    
    -- no disparagement intended for the intellectually challenged, more
    for the mechanically challenged with 10 thumbs, such as myself.

    I vaguely remember someone telling me that tapping a pipe that way was
    not legal is some communities.  I believe the concern is that the
    integrity of the pipe may be compromised, leading to failure.  I
    realize that probably millions of these things have been installed,
    but...!
    
    Then again, unless you specifically invite a plumbing inspector down to
    your basement, I guess there really is no issue!
    
    /Chris

    
    	BTW, does anybody know where to get a ice-maker kit (other than at
    	the appliance store) for a reasonable price?  Mailorder, plumbing
    	supply stores?  When I bought the fridge (Hotpoint) Percy's had
    	the ice-maker kit for $80...  This seemed kinda high...  Is this
    	reasonable?
    
    Luis

> When I bought the fridge (Hotpoint) Percy's had
> the ice-maker kit for $80...  This seemed kinda high...  Is this
> reasonable?

	around 5 years (maybe more) ago I bought an ice-maker kit
	and it cost $100 back then.  based only on that then $80
	sounds like a more than reasonable price.

	the problem with ice makers is they all seem to be designed
	for specific frigs, there is no apparent standard.  as such
	I don't think there is much in the way of a 3rd party market.

    re:.5
    
    	Are you talking about the whole ice-maker or just the installation
    kit ? If just the installation kit, $80 is outragous. 
    
    	Ditto on the plastic tubing. It's also a bit less to worry about if
    you pull have to pull the frig out from the wall. If the frig is next
    to cabinets near the sink, you can probably just run it along the back
    of the cabinets to the cold water supply to the kitchen faucet (assuming 
    this is 1/2" or better pipe). It will likely give you a nearby shutoff 
    valve too, if one is already there and you can install the fitting after 
    the shutoff valve.
    
    	Ray

    re: -1
    
    	I'm talking about the whole ice-maker...
    
    re: -2
    
    	Yeah, I guess there isn't much of an after-market for ice-makers...
    
    Luis

    If you want the icemaker, get it while you still can. Once the model
    year changes on fridg, the icemaker has a tendency to change also...
    
    $80 is cheap. I've seen much worse....
    
    CHris
    

On the other hand, you might be better off without an icemaker - Consumer
Reports consistently finds that refrigerators with icemakers need service
more often than those without - probably because the icemakers are
relatively unreliable.

I've found the standard complement of four trays and a bin in my refrigerator
to be more than adequate.

					Steve

    	I've had both a regular icemaker and one through the door. Although
    it is "just one more thing to break", I've never had any problems with
    either. 
    
    	The one through the door is great, especially with kids. The energy
    savings alone is worth it as they used to constantly be opening the
    freezer door to get ice.
    
    	Ray