Conference 7.286::home_work

  Why don't you want to use a pneumatic staple gun?  A few summers ago 
  we and two friends all needed roofing jobs.  One of the friends had
  access to both staple guns and nailing guns through the construction
  company he worked for.  We used staples because that's what his company
  uses when they do roofing with shingles.  None of us have had any problem...

  JP

    Re: .1
    
    Any ideas why staples would be better?
    
    I would think the construction company you're talking about uses
    them because there are more staples in a cartridge than there are
    nails in a cartridge (less work).  But I wonder about the quality
    of staples compared to nails.
    
    					Steve  

  In the context of pneumatic guns, I think staples would be better than nails
  because a nailing gun can't handle nails with large-area heads.  Even
  common-type nails for nailing guns have a notch in the head so that one
  nail can slide past another out the barrel.  We compared how well a
  shingle held with four large staples as opposed to four roofing nails and
  couldn't see any difference.  And again, the nails that come out of a
  gun don't have as big a head as standard roofing nails.

  I don't think that the number of nails/staples per cartridge is an issue.
  It only takes a second to drop in a new cartridge.

  JP

    

    Maybe because so many cheap things are held together with staples
    we get the impression that staples are only used for junk. When
    you think about it the 1/2" or so of wire across the shingle probably
    holds better that the head of a nail. And with two wires through
    the wood instead of the shank of a nail Id guess they have better
    holding power.
    
    So staple your roof down!
    Ron Ginger

The nails used in a Bostitch Roofing Nailer have 3/8" ROUND heads without
any notches. The head and shank diameter are the same as the type you would
drive with a hammer. Staples are cheaper than nails so that would translate
into more profit for a contractor which I'm sure would make him more
inclined to use staples. Nail guns are also more costly by about $150. I
have no good reason for wanting to use nails other then they have a stronger
appearance to me and they are what I'm used to.

    Just reading the wrapper instructions on my shingles I get impression
    that nails are preferred to staples.  It doesn't explicitly state
    that but reading between the lines that's what I infer.  They are
    very particular about how the staples are driven into the shingle.
    The instructions caution about getting the staples tight against
    the shingle but not below the surface.  The purpose of the fastener
    of course is to hold the shingle on the roof.  When removing 23
    year old shingles on my roof I never found any loose roofing nails.
    It doesn't seem that holding power is a problem with either but
    driving the fastener firmly against the shingle is important.
    
    Marty
    

re:0

Ed,

In case you are still interested, the latest COMB catalog (discount liquidator)
shows a power nailer for (I think) $169, regularly something like $350.

    re: .7
    
    Unless I'm mistaken, the COMB unit is air powered so you'd need
    access to a big compressor.
    
    -joet

I just spoke to two roofing contractors in the Marlboro area and both of
them swear by hand driven nails. They both have tried staples and have not
been satisfied with the results and want nothing more to do with staples.
They claim that the staples do not hold as well and it is hard to tell if it
went in correctly (it might hit something on the way in and glance sideways)
They said that it is definately faster to use a staple gun but that they are
interested in doing quality work which will last so they stay away from the
staples. When I ask one about a nail gun, his comment was that he had no
experience with one or had seen any jobs done with one.

Being a former construction contractor, I have used both techniques for 
putting on roofs. In places of high winds, staples will usually hold better 
that hand nailing. This is due to the increased surface area of a staple 
v.s. a nail. Most nailing guns are intended to drive a nail through wood, and 
will pass completely through a shingle. Thus, only a staple gun will work. 
For perspective, when I built my own house I hand nailed the shingles because 
more care is likely to be taken while hand nailing. (and lots more time)
If you do hand nail, use a 1 1/2 inch roofing nail for re-roofing.

I would recommend you be more concerned about the type of shingle that you use.
Both asphalt and fiberglass work better under different enviornmental and 
application conditions. (roof pitch, ave. temp.,) In addition, if you are 
doing the job yourself and you have access to a truck, I would recommend 
that you remove the old shingles. Although a roof can be re-roofed once 
without doing this, you will find that when you place the new shingles on the 
existing ones you will be forced to follow the old lines. 

				Handy

re .10:

It appears that nail guns come in two flavors, the kind that drives a common
type nail and the kind that drives a "roofing" nail. The kind that I was
interested in was the roofing nail type. I am aware that a one should not
use a nail gun that drives a "common" type nail due to the decreased surface
area of the head. Have you used the roofing type such as the Bostitch N12B?
Or is your experience limited to common type and staplers?

The job is now in progress using hand driven nails. I'm sure it would have
made the job go much faster if I had one of those roofing nail guns. If one
were to use a calculation of saving 3 seconds per nail it would have saved
us about 8 hours. It takes my wife several blows with the hammer to drive a
nail in and with a gun she could just squeeze the trigger. The shingles were
in lousy shape (~22 yr old) and alot of them on the south side of the house
were brittle and curling so we decided to stripe the shingles. On the north
side of the house about 40% of the plywood had delaminated so we also
stripped it and replace the old 3/8" with 1/2". On the one south section
none of the plywood had delaminated but since we had ordered all new 1/2"
plywood based on the north side problem we went ahead and put it over the
3/8" layer. That sure stiffened up that section of the roof. The overhangs
were drooping and in one case it was about a 4" droop so we are fixing that
problem as we go along. In one corner the rafter did not even extend out to
the facia header and the adjacent one was a 2x6 that narrowed to a 2x2 and
the nail was below it. For the most part I have found a lot of shoddy
workmanship in the roof construction. I am told these houses were built by
Andy Lane back in the mid 60s. This job is taking way longer than we had
originally estimated mainly due to the plywood and overhang problems. We
also had to remove a 4 foot strip of lead flashing from one side of the
chimney which took about 2 hours with a air chisel and replace that. This
would have been pure misery with a hammer and chisel. Also with all the rain
we have been having lately some additional amount of time has been spent
securing plastic tarps down each evening (and sometimes again in the wee
hours of the morning). Those large blue plastic tarps such as one might find
at Spags or Harbor Freight Salvage are wonderful for such a job.

I remember it well.  One of the biggest drags of building yourself is the 
constant necessity to put up temporary weather protection.  Even now the sound 
of plastic flapping in the wind makes me cringe.

Paul