Conference 7.286::home_work

    	I have a leaky faucet in my upstairs bathroom that is driving 
        me crazy. First I replaced the washer. When I did this the 
        part of the inside mechanism that held the washer started to 
        crumble. The leak persisted. I then replaced the inside 
        component of the faucet. The leak is almost gone however, 
        there still is a perceptible leak. What else can I do?

				Fred

	There are a couple of different types of valve seat grinders out
there.  Make sure that you get one that looks like it fits snugly in the
faucet housing.  Since you have to grind it perfectly flat, it's important
that the gizmo provides enough support to keep it perpendicular to the face
of the seat.  The third one I bought (which finally worked) has a thick rubber
collar on the shaft which serves this purpose.  I think I got it at Zayres.
The price was trivial for what it does.

-joet

To give an accurate answer, you should tell us the make of the faucet.  If
it is one that was made in the last 20 or so years, it may well have replaceable
seats.  American Standard and Price-Fister have these seats.  You can tell
if the seats come out by looking at the valve seat when you have the faucet
apart.  The Price-Fister use an Allen wrench to remove the seat while the
American Standard use a square wrench.  A combination tool for valve seat
removal is available in the plumbing section of most hardware stores.  If
the seats aren't replaceable, then you would have to recut the existing seat
as suggested in .1 and .2.

Bruce Bretschneider

    About faucets, I know little, but it would have to do some remarkable
    things before I would be excited about paying over twice a $100 faucet.
    
    I just replace my kitchen faucet with one of those moulenex (sp?)
    faucets.  It doesn't have a spayer and cost about $40.  An attached
    spray hose made it about $60 or so.
    
    I am very happy with my faucet.
    
    - Phil

    Again, going off on a tangent, I once got a "funny" faucet and was
    quite sorry I did.  The deal was that instead of using washers or
    cartridges, the on/off mechanism was a pinch roller affair that
    squeezed Tygon tubing which made the whole thing appear very simple.
    Tygon tubing for the supply lines up to the mixing tee, no moving
    parts in the water flow, etc.  Two weeks after installation, the
    night before we went on a week and a half vacation, the hot side
    tubing exploded and destroyed the vanity, the ceiling below, and
    so on before I could shut the main off (about 5 minutes).
    
    When I took it back to the store (Grossman's) they asked no questions
    since the salesman told me he had a back room full of returns of
    the things.
    
    -joet

    I have replaced two of my most used faucets with Delta single lever
    lever units (~$50.00).  I have been completely satisfied.  The one
    on the kitchen sink was done about 7 or 8 years ago and has been
    maintainence free.  Also, I believe Delta parts are readily available.
    Not so with the single lever in the powder room that came with the
    house.  I had to fabricate a part out of neoprene to repair it.
    

    My uncle, who was a plumber for umpteen years, once told me that
    Delta is a good reliable faucet that he would recommend.  It's not a
    fancy decorator job, it's just a good faucet that won't give problems.
    I've got Delta faucets in my house that were installed in (about)
    1968 that are still working fine.  No problems at all.  If you want
    to pay twice the price for the styling of the more expensive faucets
    that's up to you, but I don't expect they'll work any better.
    
    Steve
    

    
    If you can go for the extra bucks, Moen has one advantage over Delta:
    ALL Moen faucets have the same cartridge assembly. Delta's do not.
    This makes getting the right replacement part a whole lot easier.
    

    The Franke faucet has one feature that I've not seen on other
    less-expensive units:  you can adjust the mixing temperature range.
    
    -- Ward

                Whatever you end up buying, consider one very important 
        thing. Replacement parts! You know, things like washers, 
        O-rings, and anything else designed to wear out and be replaced. 
        Unless you are planning to move in about 5 years, you WILL need 
        to worry about this, or be faced with replacing the faucet at 
        some point because you couldn't get that critical, special, 
        washer so that you could stop that annoying (and wasteful) drip. 
        drip. drip........
                
                /s/     Bob
                

  
  I picked up a Franke brochure at Milford Lumber, I don't know what
  they have for availability/price but you may like to call them.

  Milford Lumber, Elm Street, Milford, NH.  673-3331, 1-800-572-1844.

  The Franke stuff does look very nice, some intersting designs in
  sinks too.  Not ready to change mine yet, despite the drip.. drip.. drip..

    ..Paul

    	I recently replaced my kitchen fawcett with a delux Sears job.
     It was a $69.00 model with sprayer.  One thing I like about it
    is the spout extends a bit higher and longer.  This is nice when
    I try to fill up my gallon juice picture with water.  I couldn't
    fit it under the old spout.  The install was simple.  Flex 3/8"
    copper tubing out of the base of the assembly made for a good fit.
    I did have trouble with the sprayer fitting.  The fawcett would
    pound out a beat because of the air leak in the sprayer which would
    cause the switching lever with in to flip/flop.  I took the sprayer
    back and was given a better one off the shelf for nothing.  It works
    well.  The only other thing was the airator (sp?) on the tip of
    the spout was restricting the water flow to 2X a trickle.  I removed
    the inner airator washer and have a great flow now.  Does anyone
    know who makes the fawcett assemblies for sears?
    
    							Jorge'

    I'm just putting the finishing touches on my kitchen and am very happy
    with the results. The faucet I installed is a Moen that looks pretty
    much like your normal single lever faucet. The fancy part is that the
    spout assembly is in a sleeve that allows the spout to be pulled up to
    raise it an *extra* 6" above the sink. Great for those tall pots that
    never fit under a conventional faucet or for filling jugs (or for
    rinsing your head in the sink if your into that). The end of the
    spout also adjusts to deliver a steady stream or a spray of water.
    
    I got it at Capitol Plumbing on Temple in Nashua NH. $139 and worth
    every penny. (if you know a plumber he can go in and get it cheaper).
    
-mike

    
    
          Please! whatever you do, do not buy a peerless washerless
    faucet unless your into changing the internal workings every 4 to
    6 months.... I regreted ever buying one! 
    
                                 Paul
    

    Two comments:
    
    I lived in Switzerland for a few years and enjoyed a house with a
    Kuglostat (sp ?) bath/shower mixer, I don't know if this is a Swiss or
    German unit.  It is a very good thermostatically controlled unit that
    adjusts the mix to give the set output temperature (within the range of
    the incoming water temperatures and a scald limit).  This was
    especially good for running baths for kids, we'd just set it at a
    particular point for baths and at a particular different point for
    showers.  I may try to get them when it comes replacement time in my
    present house. 

    Replacement parts:  It was a surprise to me that pipe fittings,
    compression joints, etc are "english standard" in Switzerland, and I
    think throughout most of europe.  Although the exterior connections are
    non-metric I suspect that the innards are mm standards, so go to the
    metric O-rings box when you visit the h/ware store for parts.  Although
    I like to believe that parts will be available when I need them I would
    like to keep parts availability out of the buying choice for this kind
    of equipment.  I expect at least 10 trouble free years of use out of
    fawcetts/mixers, beyond which time I may want to remodel, may have sold
    the place, etc., even Delta could be out of business and the corner
    h/ware store become another parking lot i.e. servicing is not within my
    time horizon.  Decadent ?, maybe, but (most) houses aren't built to
    last for centuries these days either, so its just a matter of scale. 
    
    	Reg
    
    

    re 6...
    

    The Franke faucet has one feature that I've not seen on other
    less-expensive units:  you can adjust the mixing temperature range.

    
    	Huh?  Do you mean some sort of high temp limit?
    
    __r

    Indeed, on the Franke you can set the outlet temperature from 100
    to 118 degrees, with inlet temperatures from 110 to 170 degrees.
    
    -- Ward

    
    Went to the Home Show in Boston this weekend. Faucets seem to be
    a big item now. They had tons of them that have digital temp. displays.
    Haven't you always wanted to spend $300 to know exactly how hot your
    dishwater was? :-)
    
    						Mark

    Whenever I go appliance shopping I've found that salesmen usher you
    directly to the models that possess digital-displays or microprocessors
    or programming capability of some type. They always seem taken aback
    and usually hurt when I laugh out loud. I spend my entire day writing
    software; the LAST thing I want to do when I get home is program my
    refrigerator or faucet or dishwasher or oven or...

-mike

    Something to note in faucets is the amount of Brass used versus
    plastic.  You will find that high quality faucets, such as Franke,
    Moen, and Grohe, use all chrome plated brass.  Brands such as Peerless
    and Delta use alot of chrome plated PLASTIC!.  You can tell immediately
    by picking up the unit and feeling the weight.  Try and stay away
    from the plastic units.
    
    -al

    Redoing the kitchen!  Looking for info on sink brands, places to
    see 'em, features to look for.  Faucets too!!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Chris

    How much are you looking to spend?
    
    Expensive brands are: Franke, Kohler, Gaganeu (sp?) and can be
    seen in most custom kitchen shops (or catalogs).
    
    Not so expensive: Elkay and can be seen in the plumbing supply store.
    Main difference is selection, quality of the Nickel/Chrome (for
    stainless), color (in the case of porcelain) and depth of bowl.
    If you go with porcelain, be sure it's on cast iron, not stamped
    steel.
    
    Faucets: Grohe, Moen, American Standard, Delta, Kohler.  The more
    brass, the better the faucet.  Stay away from the chrome plated
    plastic ones.  You can always tell by the weight of the faucet.
    
    -al

But as .1 said, how much do you want/plan to spend?  You can get cheap 
stainless and very expensive stainless.  I've seen sinks for as low as 
$25 and there's really no upper limit, though they start topping off 
around $400 (though I'm sure you could get above that too!).

I had really wanted an enamel sink because they look neat.  However, the
thought of dropping a pan and chipping it convinced me otherwise.  Small
kids throwing stuff at the sink all day doesn't help either!

-mark

If you have the money, I think about the nicest way to go is Corian.  They have 
a full size sink unit that is part of the counter.  That means NO seams around 
the sink for crud to build up.  Of course, it costs about $750...

Paul

We just put in an Elkay stainless steel sink which has the stainless steel
sideboard and a Moen riser faucet which you can raise up to get large pans
under.  I really like having the sideboard as part of the sink.  Price was
around $300 for the sink.

    I agree with Paul in .4, I just installed a Corian double undermount
    sink and love it... Also a Moen riser for a faucet and agree on
    that also...
    			Steve
    

Something worth thinking about is what is going under the sink.  We keep our
kitchen trash under the sink (as I suspect many people do).  Many sinks make
it very tight to fit a reasonably sized container under them.  However, I
know for a fact that Elkay and Franke have drains that are NOT in the middle
of the sink but rather sit in the back, allowing fairly tall garbage cans to
fit up under them.  The downside is of course the extra $$$ they cost, but
I haven't regretted it yet!

-mark

    The Franke drain sits well back, and has an obviously rich-looking
    finish.  I opted for the model with a large main sink and a small
    shallow sink for the disposal.  I also like their series of one-piece
    taps that include a detachable spray at the end.  Very yuppy-ish!
    
    I like Grohe faucets too.  Great quality.  A good showroom to see
    this stuff is  Metropolitan in Norwood, or AJ Felz in Newton.

A quick note on a good experience with American Standard faucets.

Had problems with pitting on 3- and 4-year old faucets and wrote
customer service.  They sent me replacement faucets and asked that 
after I had the replacements installed to return the defective ones 
to them for examination.

I was surprised and pleased that they responded in a way that caused me 
the least convenience.  I didn't even have to furnish documentation 
on the purchase date and so forth.

By the way, the replacements now carry warranty cards--the Regency is 
guaranteed for 5 years and the Reliant (single lever, replaced the 
Aquarian) is guaranteed for 10.

Alex

    What do you do when a washerless faucet leaks?  Does it have to
    be replaced or is there a "fix" for that?
    
    chris d.
    

    
    There are cartridges in washerless faucets, that can be removed
    and replaced. A trip to your local hardware store will acquaint
    you with what you're looking for when you take the faucet apart,
    and if you know the brand, the guy behind the counter might even
    be able to tell you *how* to take the faucet apart.
    
    Do you you get sand particles and such in your water? If so, and the
    faucet id dripping slowly, try turning it full on and full off a
    number of times. If the problem is grit behind an O ring, this may
    cause things to reseat and fix the problem.

    I don't know about other brands, but my Delta faucets have two little
    spring-loaded rubber seals in them that can be replaced.  They are
    easy to replace.  On the Delta, there's a small Allen screw on the 
    underside of the lever that takes the lever off, then the round cap 
    just unscrews.
    "Washerless" is somewhat of a misnomer; they've got the equivalent 
    of washers, they just aren't in traditional washer forms.

    
    Also, when you take the valve out, notice that it is a whitish plastic,
    and that there is most likely some black rubber stuck to the bottom
    of the surface.  A light sanding will take care of that junk.
    
    						.dave.

    Our new house has Delta fawcetts; the bathroom COLD side (single
    fawcett type) dripped.  The replacement kit, repair kit, was under
    $6.00 from any hardware store.
    
    When my wife disassembled the fawcett, seems the drip was caused
    by a couple pieces of large sand or small gravel. 
    
    Before buying the kit, try disassembling and cleaning...
    
    WARNING -- note the order and positioning of the little pieces.
    	       (if you're as thumb fingered as I am, anyway ;}) )
    
    Dwight (tyro-at-large)

    Anyone seen the new "blond" faucets by Delta?
    
    There about as Farra Fawcett as you can find!
    
    Charlie

I have a leak problem with the bathtub faucet.  It doesn't appear to have a
removable seat (it's a Gerber).  The edge of the seat is very chipped and I
think that I would have to grind it down almost flat to smooth it out.  My
question is, should I do this?  I assume the seat has a raised rim for a reason
and I'm wondering if it would be tight without it. 

John...

    Well, you don't have anything to lose by giving it a shot.  I bought
    a seat grinder in a hardware store for a couple of dollars and have
    used it on several occasions.  Try it.  If it doesn't work, your
    investment wasn't too great and will still be useful on other faucets.
    You may have to buy a new faucet, but your current one doesn't work
    anyway.
    
    -joet
    
    P.S.  I saw a number of types of grinders.  The best seemed to me to be
    one that has a compressible rubber plug that the shaft goes through.
    When you tighten down on it, it securely keeps the cutter parallel to
    the seat. 

I have an old fashioned sink in my upstairs bath.  The sink has two faucets 
each with their own spout, one in each back corner of the sink.  In the middle 
of the back, there is a hunk of hardware with a chain and drain plug attached 
to it (see figure 1).

		-------------------------------------------------
		|	Hot		chain/plug	cold	|
		|	O		O		O	|
		|	 \	     		       /	|
		|	  \			      /		|
			      Figure 1, back of sink

What I would like to do is keep the sink, and replace the plumbing with a set 
of faucets that both feed a central spout, which would be located in the hole 
that currently has the chain and plug.  I would prefer to use a "remote 
control" drain stopper, but I am willing to continue the use of the chain and 
plug if necessary.  I have seen faucet sets that look like they could do the 
job, but...

What I would like to know from all you experts out there is are there any 
gotchas involved.  
	1. Can replacement faucet sets of this type vary the distance between
	  handles and spout?
	2. Is there some minimum diameter the central hole must be to accept
	  a spout?
	3. What's involved in adding a remote control drain plug, in terms of 
	  the existing drain pipes?
	4. What other things are going to bite me once I disassemble the 
	  existing faucets?

I appreciate your expert advice!
						     
							- JP

    
    	I would suggest finding the faucets BEFORE taking anything apart.
    Personally, I have never seen anything that will do what you are
    looking for, and I tend to doubt you will find such a device.  All
    single spout faucets are either 4 or 8 inch on center, or, in the
    case of delta (maybe some other brands also) kitchen faucets, the
    piping goes through the central hole of a three or four hole kitchen
    sink.  This may do what you want, but would look bigger than a 
    typical bathroom faucet, plus you would not be able to use a "pop-up"
    drain, and the holes from the other faucets would still be there.
    	If this is your own place then I think you'd be better off buying
    a new sink and replace everything.

    
    I've replaced the faucet and drainspout on my vanity with a
    single control Delta faucet.  I would suggest that before you do
    anything, try to measure what you have now.  Distance from hole
    to hole and size of holes.  You'll probably have to crawl under
    the sink to do this.  Then go to a plumbing supply store (Spag's)
    and look at the different faucets available.
    
    I've only seen the "remote control drain plug" on the single control
    faucets.  I may be wrong.  You'll have to replace the drain spout
    on the sink with the remote kind (they come with the faucet).
    
    If you are going to do this yourself, I would suggest the following;
    
    		1. Measure current setup and go scope out replacements.
    
		2. Buy everything you think you'll need.  Don't worry
    		   you won't remember everything.
    
		3. Dismantle current setup and start reinstallion early
    		   on a Friday night.  Get as much done as you can.
     		   It helps to spread the frustration over 2 days!
    
    		4. Wake up early on Sat. and finish it.  You'll have
    		   to go back to the plumbing store at least once, guaranteed.
		   If your plumbing is old, be careful.  You could end
    		   replacing more than you think!
    
    	Good luck...
    
    Phil

    I agree with .1, replace sink and all if you can.
    
    "Modern" sinks have three holes: hot, cold, and stopper control
    rod. If you buy a faucet with the pop-up, you will get the section
    that attaches to the bottom of the sink and connects to the trap.
    
    Good luck!
    

    Just a clarification in measuring:  measure from the center of the
left-most hole to the center of the right-most hole.  I would think that it
would have to be a pretty wierd sink if this measurement is NOT 4" or 8".
    Also, the connection between the new faucet contraption and your existing
hot/cold water supply will (probably) have to be replaced.  Any hardware store
has something to connect to the new faucet.  What you'll have to watch out
for is how it connects to your copper pipes.  You may have some soldering
in your future.

     RE: .0  
              The "hunk of hardware with a chain and drain plug  attached"
    sounds like the overflow to me. I HAD the same style sink in my
    100+ year old house when I first purchased it. (lots of fun switching
    between the scalding hot faucet, and the ice cold faucet when washing
    your hands). My fix was to replace the sink with a cheapo vanity
    from Somerville Lumber. Total cost for vanity, faucet, drain, supply
    lines, and trap was less than $100.00
                                                            

    
    Was at Somerville over lunch.  They carry faucets with seperate
    handles which also have the pop-up feature.  Delta or Aqualine makes
    them.  They ranged anywhere from $60 to $120 (fancy brass).  Somerville
    is usually over-priced so you can probably find them cheaper.
    
    If your sink is nothing special or in bad shape, I would agree with
    previous comments to replace it all.  However, it's not necessary.
    You can always just replace the faucet now and then later if you
    decide to change the sink, you can just transfer the faucet.
    
    Phil

    If it's the kind of sink I'm thinking of, the faucets are probably
    about 14" to 16" apart, right?
    If so, I don't think there is any way to do everything that you
    want to do, although I agree with other suggestions to measure
    everything then go to a good plumbing supply place and look around to
    see exactly what is available.
    There may be a setup for old sinks like that, that have the
    hot and cold coming together underneath the sink and then coming
    up through the center.  If there is, it will probably be fairly
    uncommon and hard to find, because modern sinks aren't build that
    way.  You might be able to find enough pieces to build something
    like that yourself though; the trick would be to find faucets that
    have the valve and outlet part underneath the top of the sink
    and the handle extending up through.  You'd also have to find a
    spout that can feed from underneath; note that it doesn't necessarily
    have to provide for two input lines, you can always put in a tee.
    
    	  		/--center spout
    		  _  <-/
    	+H+	 | |     +C+ <--faucets (H and C)
      __|H|______+_+_____|C|__ <--top of sink
    	|H|______| |_____|C|
    	| 		   |
        |		   | <-- supply lines
    
    
    
    
    	

I'll have to admit I'm kinda suprised at the responses.  Perhaps it comes from 
not giving enough background.

The upstairs bathroom in my 6 year old house was built by the previous owner
with long sought for old parts (claw foot tub, toilet tank mounted up on the
wall, and old sink). I wouldn't want to install any modern looking faucets,
like a single control or anything of that sort. 

In several stores (Spags, Sears, Mass Hardware, ...) I have seen some nice 
faucet sets that have 3 units that come up thru the sink.  Two are faucets 
with nice looking porcelain bat handles, or smaller porcelain "+" shaped 
handles.  These sets are in the $80-$150 range, so I was hoping to be able to 
find out if I could do what I want before I spent the money.  

At any rate, it sounds like I should dismantle the existing sink hardware, 
takes lots of measurements, 27 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and 
arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, and go down to the local 
plumbing store, and ask lots of questions.

						     Thanks
							- JP

    	And if that don't work, bring 'em the sink.  :-)
    
    	Seriously though, go to a plumbing house or good reliable hard-
    ware store that does a lot of plumbing business.  It will take a
    knowledgeable person to give you the "right" advice that you are
    looking for.  As a personal opinion, I tend to distrust department
    type stores, or low priced outlets, when looking for solid advice.

    Not only discount department stores can give bad advice. Somebody
    at Grossman's recommended some fittings for a new kitchen faucet
    that I was installing. It turned out that the threads were slightly
    incompatible, puddle city. A lady (how 'bout that, sexists :^) )
    at the local hardware store explained the difference between various
    thread "styles".
    
    Jim
     

    
    I think what you want to do, can be done.  The faucets do exist.
    The catch is the size of the hole in the middle.  There must be
    some way to enlarge it if you want to go that route.  Your title
    is "*Updating* faucets..." but I think you want is to replace the
    faucet with a central spout and keep the "old" flavor of the sink
    and faucet.  Correct?
    
    Phil

<RE: Note 1873.8 by PARSEC::PESENTI "JP" >

>In several stores (Spags, Sears, Mass Hardware, ...) I have seen some nice 
>faucet sets that have 3 units that come up thru the sink.  Two are faucets 
>with nice looking porcelain bat handles, or smaller porcelain "+" shaped 
>handles.  These sets are in the $80-$150 range, so I was hoping to be able to 
>find out if I could do what I want before I spent the money.  

	Hi John-

	     I know exactly what you are looking for as I also have a sink
	which at one time had the setup you refer to, (there was enough of
	it left to figure out how it used to be).  The old Victorian pedestal
	sink with individual valves with flexible tubing connecting to the
	mixing spout in the center, and the mixing spout also has a tube
	coming up through the center which allows for a remote stopper 
	control.

	     And you have the key $80-150, actually I've seen them go up
	over $350.- in price.  Another spot to try is Renovator's Supply
	or check out the plumbing ads in "The Olde House Journal" for other
	options.  If you go to a plumbing supply all you need do is take 
	a piece of paper or cardboard large enough to cover all the openings
	and trace them from under the sink, this will give you the size of
	the holes and spacing with something easy to take with you.  You 
	should also note any restrictions you might have on the under side 
	of the porcelain.

	     Good to hear from an old ASM'er.

						Good Luck Randy 

    I have a kitchen faucet that has a black material breaking away
    from under the fixture (between the top of the sink and the bottom
    of the fixture). Knowing nothing about plumbing is there a gasket
    installed between these 2 surfaces and if there is, do they make
    replacements ? Any info greatly appreciated...
    
                                 Mark

    
    
    	You can get just about any part like that at any hardware store.
    
    	-Steve-
    

That's really an open ended question.  The faucets I've seen usually have a
rubber gasket between them and the sink and they provide no functional purpose
other than provided a tight seal that keeps water from getting under tham (which
I suppose IS a purpose).  Anyhow, the failure of such a gasket is not in any
real way critical.

Plumbers putty serves a similar purpose.  If you look at the strainer in your
sink, it is usually seated with putty to prevent water from leaking out.  The
key here is that with the drain, there's a wide surface to spread out the putty.
In the case of a faucet, there may be only a slight ridge.  If you put putty 
here and tighten down the faucet it maye force out most or all of the putty
defeating the whole purpose.

To do it right, you'll need to remove the faucet and see how it was sealed and
simply repeat the process (either with putty or a gasket).  On the other hand,
there's no reason why you can't just let it sit and leave it alone.

-mark

    
    	I'll second (.3).  Unless the water is getting through the base
    of the faucet and leaking into the cabinet there's no reason to
    fiddle with it.  To fix it properly means taking the faucet OFF
    the sink and putting another gasket on the faucet base.  If it
    IS leaking now, you might want to try silicone around the base.
    You might be able to get a better looking bead with it, rather than
    plumbers putty, and it comes in colors.  Plumbers putty only comes
    in one color, basic blah... :-)   (Actually it's beige...kind of)

    I'm not sure JP is still reading this, but here goes.
    
    I've fixed a sink of the type you describe. You can't put in a mixer.
    Somerville Lumber has replacement faucets in chrome.  Renovator's
    Supply has them in brass and chrome, with various fancy handles.
    
    Possible problem: SOME of those old faucets used very wide pipe.
    Measure it before you buy. You can adapt to a new faucet, but it
    helps to find out before the hardware store closes.
    
    Replacing the drain can be tricky. Tricky finding the replacement,
    that is. I have a receipt - somewhere - that'll tell me where I
    got mine. Write me if you need the info. My sink had a lot of rust
    in the drain area that had to be cleaned before replacing.
    

I am.

Actually, the sink was assembled recently out of an old basin, and newer 
faucets.  Unfortunately the iron in my water corroded the cold faucet guts and 
requires replacing the unusual valve the original DIYHO installed.  The 3 
shops I brought it to suggested I replace the faucet, since the existing one 
is a real el cheapo that doesn't have easy to find replacable parts.  So, 
seeing as how I was going half way, I thought it would be nice if I could 
avoid scald/freeze method of obtaining lukewarm water.  I've checked, and will 
be able to do the changes I want.  

						     Thanks to all
							- JP

I've got an older Price-Pfister (M.F. 403) single-action faucet on my kitchen
sink that seems to be leaking from the swivel joint where the faucet arm meets
the body.  Water oozes through that joint wheever I use the faucet.  Wiggling
the arm shows a bit of play in the joint.

Is it possible to fix a leak like this?

When I took the arm off to have a look, I saw a 3/8" or so allen-shaped
fitting of some sort inside the joint.  Is this the "key" to my problem?
(Does it require a special [odd] sized allen wrench?)

If the sleeve is just fatigued and can't be repaired, have you ever heard
of just replacing the arm on one of these things?  What do they tend to
cost?

Thanks for your help,

-Brian

    	You should have also seen one or two o-rings around the shaft
    that the arm body swivels around.  This is where your problem is.
    Remove the old o-rings, (try to avoid ripping them) and then go
    to a good hardware store or plumbing supply and get new ones.

RE. < Note 42.5 by SMURF::WALLACE "Life's a beach, then you dive!" >

>You should have also seen one or two o-rings around the shaft
>that the arm body swivels around.  This is where your problem is.
    

Hmmmmmmmm.   I did not see any o-rings on the shaft.  Veddy interesting.

Where do these o-rings seat, anyway?  Basically, I'm working with three parts:
spout arm, connector, and faucet body.  The first two are essentially
connected--the spout arm and the female-threaded fitting which connects it to
the body of the faucet.  The leak occurs somewhere in the slack between the
connector and the spout arm. 

Dumb question, but is the function of the o-ring merely to take up slack and
tighten the swiveling joint, or does it serve as a kind of washer? 

Thanks,

Brian

    	Yes, when you remove the spout, you have the outside cylin-
    drical outside housing connected to it right?  Now, when you
    pull the spout and housing off the faucet body, the o-rings
    should be right in plain sight, most likely one on the bottom
    and one on the top, going around the shaft of the faucet body.
    This would be the piece directly under your on/off single lever.
    They act as a washer and tensioner for the spout and outside
    swivel housing.  If they are worn enough, water may spurt out
    if you press down or up on the spout when water is running.
    If they are *really* worn out, then they will leak all the time.

    Recently my kitchen fawcet will not pass any hot water. It is a
    typical kitchen fawcet with a top lever thatyou push back for flow
    and move left or right for hot/cold water. Since I have hot water
    running in my dishwasher (connected below the fawcet) and the pipe
    feel warm delivering hot water I must assume something is wrong
    with the fawcet. My question is... Can it be fixed or do I have
    to replace it (I believe it came with the sink when we remodeled
    the kitchen 10yrs ago) ?
     Any help would be most appreciated!
    -ph
    

    Just a thought, if the hot water gets to the dish washer, maybe
    it has a three way service valve under the sink that may have shut
    off the hot wter to the sink? Most plumbing places might be able
    to help you if you take the name of the fixture (if known) to them
    and they can tell you about the parts that you might need.
    
    I just remembered that I found the sink fawcet was a Seras by looking
    through our papers when we moved into our house.
    
    cal

    Most takeoffs for a dishwasher are usually only a tee. On some single handle
    faucets, there is a ball with passages for hot and cold. In the
    base asmy are the inlets for the hot and cold water and some sort
    of seal. Perhaps you have a clog in one of the passages. Unually
    they are not too difficult to take apart (make sure both hot and
    cold valves are shut before loosening the ball retainer unless
    you want a river). The handle comes off followed by the ball retainer.
    I know that Delta units come apart that way and repair kits are available.
                                                    
    Eric
    

    
    This is sort of a leaky faucet question so I'll ask it here.

    In the home we just moved into (it's 4 years old), the outside
    faucets have some kind of pressure release built in.  This is
    the first time I've seen this kind of faucet.  Not sure I can
    describe what it looks like but it's slightly bigger than a
    regular outside faucet and has a ring of holes around the threaded hose
    connection.  Inside of it there is a spring-loaded pin that
    can be pulled out a quarter-inch or so (don't know what it does).
    
    Anyhow, the one in the front leaks when I use a hose.  The
    leak is coming from one of the holes in that ring of holes I
    described, almost what I'd expect it to do if the pressure were
    too high.  But the markings on it seem to indicate it's set to
    125 psi and I'm sure the pressure isn't that high.  I wouldn't
    really mind but the kids always manage to find that muddy puddle under
    the faucet!  The back yard one doesn't leak like this.
    
    My questions :
       1) was my guess about pressure release correct, or
          is this supposed to prevent frozen pipes in the winter
          or something like that?
       2) Is there any way to take it apart and fix it?  Only one of the
          holes seems to be leaking.
    
    I have a well, if that makes any difference.
    
    Any help would be appreciated.  I couldn't find any way to take
    it apart just looking over it briefly, and will replace the whole
    faucet if necessary.
    
    Bill

    My brother-in-law and I were replacing the sink sparayer on our
    kitchen faucet last night and after installing the brand new sprayer
    had the same problem as with the old one: when the sprayer trigger is 
    depressed the water pressure from the faucet is interrupted only slightly
    while just a trickle of water comes out of the sprayer nozzle. When
    the nozzle trigger is released full pressure does not return to the
    faucet - it does only after shutting off the faucet and turning
    it back on again.
    
    We took the faucet off the sink and checked for blockages - nothing.
    Any ideas?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike
    

    
    	The problem was not the sprayer but the diverter valve in the
    body of the faucet.  Most faucet manufacturers make replacement
    diverters.  You'll have to most likely take the spout off to reach
    the piece, but if you know the manufacturer, you can get the re-
    placement at a hardware store or plumbing supply.

      I had the same problem as .5 and replaced the diverter valve as
    .6 mentioned.  This did not solve it.  It is a Delta faucet and
    I don't know if this is by design (for some unknown reason) or what
    but I finally gave up.  I have a charcoal water filter on the faucet 
    and if I send the water through that, there is enough pressure to use
    the sprayer. 
    
    -Jim
     

    
    	The diverter valve should not turn off the water from the
    spout completely, but enough to give you a good flow from the
    sprayer.

    What you've got is an anti-syphon gizzie (not sure what their
    official name is).  I believe they are now required on all
    outside faucets.  They are to prevent water from the hose
    flowing back into the pipes in the house if:
    1. The outside faucet is turned on.  
    2. The pipes inside your house spring a leak and you lose
       all water pressure.
    3. Water drains out of the hole in the pipes in the house, and
       the hole is lower than the end of the hose outside, so it
       syphons.
    Seems to me that the odds of this all hapening are vanishingly
    small, but officialdom apparently disagrees.  I gather that they
    are worried about what would happen if somebody were using one
    of those gadgets that you can put on a hose to spray liquid
    fertilizer or weed killer while you're watering a lawn, and that
    somehow got back into the inside pipes.
    
    I don't have one of these so I'm not sure what to do about stopping
    the leak.  Check to see if there is a washer someplace you can
    replace.  These things are available in hardware stores, so perhaps
    if you went and looked at one you'd get a better idea how it works.
    

    
    
    		Check the aereator.

	.9 is right about it being a anti-syphoning valve.  I don't know enough 
	about them to diagnos the problems.
	But, .9 has over simplified the danger.  Our subdivision has lost 
	water pressure 5 times in the past month and everytime all the water
	syphoned back into the well(200+ house subdivision).  If you own a well
	especially a deep well you will be amazed how fast the water can be 
	sucked out of your house, when your well fails.  

	An anti-syphoning valve does not prevent drain back but allows air into 
	the system, instead of sucking water, air and chemicals through the 
	hose.

	Brian

Couldn't they have just installed a back-flow valve on the pipe to
the outside hose?  I believe backflow valves are like the valves in
your blood vessels - water flowing one way open the flap wide and water
flowing the other way pushes the flap closed.  I know that commercial
buildings are required to have this sort of pretection between the pipes 
that pass drinkable water and any pipes that carry contaminated water.

	Larry

    re: .8
    
      I agree.  However, the case I am referring to, it doesn't restrict
    the water enough to make it useful.  In my case, I found a 'work
    around' so I haven't pursued the problem.  The diverter valve *should*
    correct the situation but I wanted to mention that this is not
    necessarily so.

    
    Ahhh, so that's what it is!  Ok, sounds like a good thing to have
    so I'll make sure and replace it with the same thing if I do have
    to replace it.  I'll take a closer look at it tonight and see if
    I can get into the guts - unfortunately at first glance it looked
    like an unserviceable unit.  Thanks for the help, I'll let you know
    how I end up fixing it.  Oh, RE .-1, my guess would be that you
    would want this kind of thing to relieve the pressure in the system,
    I can envision my water tank or something collapsing without a
    pressure release - of course your backflow valve could be put down
    near the pump itself, protecting the upstream plumbing - well, as
    you can tell I know little about it but at least I do know how to
    replace a faucet.
    
    Bill

I have had similiar problems with the backflow preventers on my outside 
faucets. It turns out that there are two types of backflow preventers for 
outside faucets. The ones I had were integrated with the faucet body and 
are not repairable. If they fail you end up replacing the entire faucet.
I replaced the ones I had with a standard outside faucet and 
then added a screw on backflow preventer. The screw on type is better in 
my opinion since if it fails you just replace that part and do not have 
to hassle with replacing the entire faucet. I found the screw on type at 
SPAGS and at SOMERVILLE LUMBER. I am sure they are available at any plumbing 
supply or handyman center. The cost to replace the faucet and add the screw
on backflow preventer will be about $7-$10 depending on where you buy them.

						Bob...

    
    Great advice - thanks.  I looked again and it sure looks like an
    unservicable unit.  I will probably take your advice, being only
    15 minutes away from Spags.
    
    Bill

    The internals of my bathtub faucet grinded themselves to pieces.
    I'll cut to the chase-> I don't know the brand of faucet, but the
    replacement was an American Std., with a seat that used an Allen
    wrench (not square wrench as stated in note 42.3) Anyway, after
    replacing the stem, seat, and washers on both hot and cold, I still
    have a drip about once every 10 secs. The faucet may be as old as
    1955, or may have been replaced once since then, I can't tell.
    
    Any ideas? 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Barry

    Assuming that the new seat wasn't nicked when it was installed and
    the washer is correct, then the leak may be coming from between
    the seat's threads and the fitting its screwed into, where the flat
    back of the seat and the fitting contact. I've had this problem
    a few times and used a little plumbers putty on the underside of
    the seat to form a sort of gasket. When I've used this method, its
    worked.
    
    Eric

    re .-1
    
    Well, I put some pipe tape on the seat's threads. Would that cover
    for the "gasket" that you say you put on the back of the seat?
    It seems like it would. The only other thing I can think of is that
    maybe the fitting itself cannot hold the seat tight to the stem
    gasket any longer. If that were the case, would that mean that
    the whole faucet is shot? Does anyone know how the faucet housing
    itself is attached to the fitting/pipe behind it? I can't see it
    behind the wall. I guess what I'm asking is how do you replace a
    single faucet?  
    
    Barry

    The faucet assemblies I've replaced were usually held to the sink
    by nuts on threaded shafts coming down from the handle asmy. The
    pipes attached by some type of compression fitting. Though the drain
    asmy was a pain to disconnect, its not too difficult. I've gone
    the replace asmy. path once because I had a recurring leak, and
    was tired of working on it. Since the asmy can be bought quite
    reasonably (depending on how fancy you want to get), its an easy
    way to fix the problem when simple fixes won't work.
    
    Eric

    I heard recently that there is a type of sink that is like Corian
    but not quite as expensive. Does anyone know what it is and how
    approximatly much it costs?
    
    				James

    Is that Marlan?  Or is Corian the cheap Marlan?
    
    I bought the cheaper one of the two about four years back.  Somerville
    Lumber had it; the price wasn't much  higher than "cultured marble".
    
    I don't own that house any more, but had no trouble with the sink.
         fred

    For how long did you use the sink?
    
    					James

    No one has commented in this note for quite awhile, but I'll add
    a comment 'cause it seems to fit here.  Be aware that inside of
    a Moen or Delta kitchen sink faucet is a round ball with 3 holes
    in it and a stem.  Kinda like a Tootsie Pop. In order to hold costs
    down, the manufacturers have gone to 2 - molded pastic hemispheres
    with a metal "stem" and a small metal wear insert. I can guarantee
    that this type of construction will start dripping within 2-3 years.
    When you go for replacement parts, don't let them sell you the
    identical plastic replacement, but ask instead for the solid, machined
    brass part.  It will cost about $8 versus $3, but will last nearly
    forever.
    
    Chuck

I am having a very hard time finding a strange faucet stem for a Price-Pfister 
fixture.  It seems to be very non-standard.  None of the hardware stores  with
a large array of stems have anything like it and I have tried a couple  of
plumbing supply stores and they have never seen anything like it before 
either.  My faucet (in a second bathroom) has been out of commission for  over
a year now and my wife is hinting that the time has come to do something  about
it.  I really don't want to replace the whole fixture when all I need is  a
stem.  I can't believe how odd this stem is given that the house is only  6
years old and the fixture was new when it was built.  Does anyone know where I
might be able to find it?  Can I contact  Price-Pfister directly?  Anyone have
a phone number?  This started out as  a simple "replace a washer" type repair
and is turning out to be a real  hassle.  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks.

Walker

    
    
    Try calling County Supply in Lowell Ma. They are located at
    1035 Westford St. which is just down the road from Lowell Ford
    If they don't have what your looking for, they might be able to
    help as they carry alot of stuff.
    
    their phone number is (508)458-3200
    
    
    
    Royce

    I had a similiar problem about 5 months ago.  It was a PF shower stem.
    No one had it.  United Supply of Nashua could have ordered it,  (they
    had some PF in stock).   The wait would have been 3-6 weeks and cost
    was over half of a new Delta.

	    United Supply   Crown St.   603 889-2301

    

    BTW, this situation happens frequently in spec houses or multi-unit
    condos.   Usually the architect is approached by a little known
    vendor of x who sells a bunch of x's for a very low price.  The
    idea being that brand x will catch on if the one contact can get
    it installed in a number of places.   
    
    I lived in an 18-unit condo (only 9 years only) where the front doors were
    made by some outfit no one ever heard of.  They had to be replaced
    wholesale when replacement pieces couldn't be found.
    
    Perhaps the first Delta, Moen, or Kohler fixtures got sold this
    way.  But of course if the brand doesn't make it in the market it's
    not the original buyer who gets stuck...

Price-Pfeister shower faucets are sold at Spags, they may sell parts for them
too, I'm not sure.

    I checked all the plumbing notes and this place seemed the most
    appropriate.
    	I have a leaky faucet in the shower.  Also, the valve to the hot
    water (the one that is leaking) will turn but the valve doesn't open.
    The brand of faucet is GERBER.
    	Now I can get the plastic protector off and I can remove the
    handle.  However, the stem is recessed inside the pipe coming out of
    the shower wall.  Is there a special tool that I need to get down
    inside the pipe and turn out the stem???  Do I just need to replace the
    stem (I think GERBER is "washerless")???
    	Thanks for your help.
    Ric

    To get at the recessed part, there are a set of plumber wrenches that
    are basically thin walled sockets that can reach in to the wall (where
    are you located). You can wither borrow, buy, or rent a set to do the
    job. The Gerber faucets I had in my prev house had removable seats
    (again, removed with a special tool).
    
    Eric

    I've got a Price-Fister faucet in the bathroom.  My wife says that it
    is leaking water onto the counter behind it.  It's your typical 2
    knobs, one spout faucet.  The back is higher than the front, so if it
    was leaking from the stem, I would expect the water to run down to the
    front.  Is this a bad assumption on my part?
    
    I started to take it out of the counter, and when I tried to disconnect
    the water line, I discovered that it doesn't look like a compression
    fitting.  There is a brass doughnut-like thing, flush with the end of
    the fitting, that the water line goes into.  I didn't want to yank on
    it and break something.  Also, I discovered that there is no room by
    the other line to get any kind of wrench onto the nuts to loosen them,
    due to a drawer being in the way.  I pulled the drawer out, but the
    rails are still in the way.
    
    Can I pull on the water line w/out messing up this doughnut-like thing?
    Is there some kind of wrench with the head turned 90 degrees so I can
    remove the nuts without tearing the drawer rails out?  Or is there
    some other way to go about this?
    
    Is it likely the leak is inside the faucet,  or am I about to take a
    giant detour?
    
    Thanks for any suggestions,
    
    Bob

    After further investigation, I believe that the 'leak' is really from
    the water dripping off my wifes hands when she turns the faucet off, or
    reaches for soap, etc.
    
    I am still curious about connections.
    
    Bob

    I'm not real clear on the donut like connector thing you describe, but
    if you have copper supply pipes to the faucet and they're sweated (not
    compression) fittings, you can pull to your hearts content and not hurt
    much but yourself.
    
    You can disconnect the supply lines at the faucet using a basin wrench.
    Its a rather commonly available tool.
    

    
    Hi
    
    I have a simmons temptrol shower faucet.  It wouldn't shut off properly
    (it kept dripping), so I adjusted it.
    
    Now it still doesn't shut off properly, it is really hard to turn, and 
    I don't get hot water (except that which I am in for trying to fix it
    and screwing up).
    
    Does anyone have any ideas as to how these faucets are supposed to be
    put together, or what I might have done wrong?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dan

The Symmons Temptrol is a pressure-balancing faucet and has a piston that
slides back and forth depending on the relative water pressures of the
hot and cold lines.  I am unsure of the method by which the main knob
adjusts the temperature.

How did you "adjust" it?  I've never seen one of these start to leak,
even after many years of use.

			Steve

    
    	To adjust it removed the handle and the outer stuff that makes it
    look ok, then I removed the outer assembly (it has the screw used to
    regulate how far the handle can turn and also seems to lock the inner
    assembly in place).  Next, I loosened the inner assembly and turned the
    handle all the way on (off, middle, etc. as I tried to get the leak to
    stop).  Between each iteration I had to run down two flights of stairs,
    shut water off, fix, run down/up stairs, find out I didn't fix,
    down/up, etc.
    
    Thanks for any help.  I didn't originally install the fixture, so I am
    not sure of the correct installation procedure.
    
    dan

I installed a Symmons Temptrol about 4 months ago.  I still have the 
installation and adjustment instructions, if you want a photocopy of them,
send mail to above node.

Steve

    We had a Symmons Temptrol installed as part of a bathroom re-do
    about six months ago.  since then, the plumber who installed it
    has had to return twice to readjust and lubricate the sucker.  
    
    Is this bug a feature?
    
    pbm
    

My Symmons was installed two years ago. It has had not problems. I have been
told by my plumber and inspector that Symmons was the best. They did say
that 1-2% would have a failure, but it was lower than any other they saw.

			Bill    

Are you on a public water supply or a well? Is it a new faucet?

I'm asking because I had a similar problem in my new house. I sounds like you 
didn't take your disassembly far enough.

In my case, a piece of loose solder from the new pipe system was flushed into
the faucet when the water was first turned on. If you had taken the last 
screw out completely, you would have been able to pull the core of the faucet
out. The core has a brass cylinder with hole, designed to strain the water
somewhat. There is a rubber washer at the end of the core. The solder had 
lodged between the washer and it's seat, preventing it from forming a 
complete seal when closed.

						Mark

    I have a leaking outside faucet.  It is "frost free" type...the stem is
    about 12 inches long.  The problem appears to be that the rubber
    stopper at each end of the stem is corroded and needs replacing.  I
    can't find replacement washers for the end nearest the handle.  So I
    went the next step and tried to find a new stem assembly and the 
    supply houses don't seem to sell those.  They only sell the whole
    faucet.
    	Now to put this in...can I just turn it in from outside the house
    or am I going to have to open up the inside wall where the faucet comes
    into the house and torque it in there???
    
    Ric

    not to step over the unanswered previous reply but,
    
    The hot water side valve seat of my tub fixture needs to be replaced,
    (realizing this after going through 3 washers in the last 2 weeks).
    
    It is replacable but the fixture is as old as the house (26 years) 
    and after about 10 seconds of trying to get it out with a screwdriver
    (square insert for wrench, but of course as a DIY'r the proper tool
    is only a last resort) the once square opening is now nice and round.
    
    I really would like to get it out easily now that I fudged it up so
    what are my options?
    
    The only one I can think of is to use a small metal cutting hole saw
    and cut a pair of opposite notches deep enough to get a screwdriver
    head to grip but not too deep to ruin the outer threads that hold the
    seat in place.
    
    Sound like a good idea?  Or are there others?
    
    Steve........................................2 months in first
                                             house and lovin' it so far
                                             

    what you need is a screw/bolt remover which is like a left handed
    thread self tapping bolt ...
    
    For a bolt, you drill a hole down the middle of the bolt, insert the
    extractor, doing it up left handed, and it will remove teh bolt.
    
    If you get one large enough, you should be able to remove your valve
    seat, but make sure it doesn't taper out too much larger than the hole
    in the seat, because the brass is soft and will deform readily.
    
    Stuart

    re -1
    
    Not a bad idea but the distance behind the valve seat is very shallow
    and I think that an extractor large enough would bottom out rather than
    pull on the seat.
    
    While at Spags today I bought one of those stop-leak kits with the
    valve seat dresser.  I'll grind the old seat smooth with this kit and
    give it a try.  If it leaks simply because of the design of the seat
    I think I'll try the mini hack/hole saw approch.  I think the dresser
    with smooth it out well enough to stop eating the washers though.
    
    Steve...............................................................
    

    I seem to be having a problem with the hot water side of the shower
    fixture's washer.  The removable seat became non-removable when i
    stripped the square hole nice and round trying to use a screwdriver
    instead if the seat removing tool. :-(
    
    So then I bought a 2.00 seat grinder.   The seat was pitted.
    The tool worked great.  Made a nice smooth surface and kept the lip.
    The problem now is the washers are still dying.  The washer is torn to
    shreds after a day or 2.
    
    a.  Should I grind the seat flat to the base?  or keep the lip?
    
    b.  Is there a better washer to use than the polypropalene (sp?)
        standard kind?
    
    Also....Once I put in a new washer it works fine but the washer hits
    the seat LONG before the handle "bottoms out".  In other words the
    water stops and THEN the handle CAN be turned at least another 3/4
    turn till it does stop tight.  Too easy to turn it TIGHT and like I said
    above shred a new washer in a couple days.
    
    c.  Why does the handle not stop? shortly after the washer hits the
        seat?  The sink does.  The other side does.
    
    d.  If I did grind the seat down flush with the base the handle will
        more than likely act the way I expect it to by stopping SHORTLY
        after the washer hits the seat and provide an ample seal.  BUT the
        faucet was not designed to NOT have a lip and although without one
        would seem to be logical, the lip must have had a purpose? besides
        wasting the new washers away......
    
    Steve..............................................................
                                          

    
    I need replacement handles for an Eljer bathroom faucet. An pointers?
    (Fitchburg, MA area)
    

Any decent hardware store will have handles, either exact replacements or
"universal" replacements.

			Steve

    
    Well, I haven't had any luck at a True-Value and an Aubachon's. Eljer
    replacements aren't stocked (only Delta), and the "universal"
    relplacements don't hack it.
    
    Anybody know a place that deals in Eljer?
    

    	If you're in Nashua you might try Mister Plumber on Main St. or
    Masi plumbing.  Don't know their phone #'s but they're in the book.
    
    George

Builders Square and Somerville Lumber both carry Eljer products.

			Steve

RE : .12
    
>>>    I need replacement handles for an Eljer bathroom faucet. An pointers?
>>>    (Fitchburg, MA area)
    
    
    Have you tried Fitchburg Plumbing Supply (343-6437) at 64 Main St in
    Fithcburg?  They had replacement parts for my 10+ year old sink that I
    couldn't locate anywhere else.  I believe they are open on Saturday
    morning also!  Hope this helps.

    Moore Lumber outlets carry Eljer (though on a number of items they may
    have to special order).  I have Eljer toilets with annoyingly unique side
    mounted handles; while the main Moore's in Ayre did not have them, the
    store in Littleton had non-Eljer-but-compatible replacement parts.
    
    I'd call before driving very far..
    
    Rich

    I just read all the replies to this note and haven't found the solution
    to my kitchen drip!  It's a single control faucet and only drips hot
    water(ie/ goes away if I turn of the main hot).  Last wknd, I opened it
    up and went out and got 4 new o-rings figuring that they were cheap and
    that it might fix the problem being that I didn't really know how the
    faucet funtions.  The leak is out of the faucet head.  It seems as
    though it would be something faulty W/IN the part that the o-rings go
    around,... but I'm not sure.
    
    Please advise!
    
    thanks
    
    	-John

    
    re .2
    
    Is it the same with the tub/shower faucets? I ended up replacing the
    whole cartridge, Mostly because the DIY book I got from the library
    said "if it's a mixer faucet, you must replace the cartridge". I guess
    the author didn't know about delta. I probably could've saved about ten
    bucks if I could've bought the little rubber washer-like things instead
    of the whole cartridge.
    
    Steve B. 

    Is this normal behavior for a kitchen sink faucet?
    
    When the single-lever control is off, there is still pressure in the
    hose.  In other words, if you turn off the faucet, relieve the pressure
    with the hose trigger, and wait a while, there will again be pressure 
    in the hose.
    
    If you hold the trigger down (i.e. with a rubber band) and place the 
    end of the hose in a bucket, eventually the bucket will be filled.
    
    This is causing the hose to leak under the sink a bit.  When I
    complained to the plumber who installed the faucet, he came out and
    re-crimped the connection between the hose and the faucet.  I suspect
    that since the hose is still under pressure even with the water off,
    the problem is not entirely fixed.
    
    Erik

    re: .11
    
    I had to replace the washers in our Peerless washerless faucet
    this weekend, so I've learned the internals of this type of
    faucet fairly well.  From what you've described, I believe you have
    a problem with the valve seat in the faucet assembly or with the
    washers within the faucet.  With the faucet off, the hose/trigger
    combo should NOT have any pressure.  They sell rebuild kits for
    these things for less than $5.
    
    andy

    Well, even with the rebuild kit, there is still a little pressure in
    the hose when the faucet is off.  I proved this by 
    
       (a)  turning off the faucet,
       (b)  draining the hose as far as possible,
       (c)  waiting about half an hour, and
       (d)  pressing the trigger of the sprayer.
    
    What I got was a spritz of mostly air but, since the pressure had
    previously been released, I suspect that the faucet is still letting
    the pressure build in the hose with the water off.
    
    But, since the hose will be pressurized when the faucet is in use,
    it should resist dripping.  I think that the hose connection at one 
    or both ends was weakened by being constantly pressurized by the old 
    control.  
    
    So, how do I repair/replace the hose?  I haven't yet crawled under
    the counter to see how it's connected; what sort of connection is
    typical here?  Can one remove the hose, perhaps cut off an inch of
    hose, and put it back together?  If it's dripping at the spray head,
    can this connection be fixed?
    
    Thanks \ Erik
    
    

    RE: .13:
    
    The hose always has pressure when the faucet is on.  The valve on the
    spray head lets the water out of the sprayer, reduces the pressure
    in the hose, and causes the diverter to cut off the faucet when the
    sprayer is turned on.
    
    So it sounds like you have both a leaky faucet and possibly a leaky
    sprayer, if there is some pressure build-up in the hose.  You should
    fix the leaky faucet first (does it drip?); this probably means
    replacing the valve seats.  I think the sprayer can be replaced, hose
    and all.  Or you might be able to just get the head, if that's what's
    leaking.  Good luck!
                          --tom

    I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to fix my leaky kitchen tap (faucet). It's
    a MOEN 7300. It's pretty standard with a swinging handle to fix hot and
    cold water; and it leaks. Well I've begun to pull it apart. Got all the
    chrome off and got to the guts. Removed a horseshoe retaining clip and
    am now stuck.
    
    It appears that there is an inner assembly. The stem (about 1/4 inch
    diameter) slides up and down. This in a larger cylinder that has
    an interrupted circular top. Ie goes round for a third of a circle,
    a 1/6 hole, a third more of metal and another 1/6 hole. With a
    grip wrench I can turn this round but it doesn't appear to be on a
    screw thread. Ie however much I turn it it neither goes up nor down.
    Just went to the hardware shop and the chap there indicated it should
    just pull out. Where I just tried that, it doesn't!
    
    I suspect some washers or gaskets inside this assembly need replacing.
    Any hints on how to get all the gubbins apart would be most
    appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dave

    I don't know about Moen, but usually the manufacturer of that kind of
    single-lever kitchen faucet makes a leak-repair kit for it that
    contains a new "ball" and other commonly-worn-out parts, and the kit
    has directions.  It should take you maybe 15 minutes to do the job once
    you have the kit, and no unusual tools are generally needed.  I even
    fixed my neighbor's faucet as a surprise one time (I weas taking car of
    his cats while he was away on a business trip, and he had mentionned
    that the faucet was leaking badly - it was a Delta faucet).
    
    /Charlotte

    Why does my kitchen faucet drip when the washing machine in the
    basement fills?  It doesn't drip any other time.

   re .36
    
    
    	MOEN faucets are garenteed.  Just give them a call.  There is an
    800 # but unfortunately, I don't have it any more.  They were very
    cooperative when I did call a while back.
    
    regards,
    		-John

    call the 800 operator to get the number.
    
    	" 800 0 "

�    call the 800 operator to get the number.
�    
�    	" 800 0 "
    
    Actually you want 800 information 1-800-555-1212.

    
    Way to late to help .36 but the Moen faucet stem mentioned does simply
    pull out (with a considerible amount of persuation, that is).  Took 
    me 15-20 pulls with a pair of vice-grips to extract mine, loosening the 
    sink from the counter in the process.   Their literature mentions that
    mineral deposits will make extraction of the stem "difficult"..  I call
    it poor design.  
    
    Supposedly Moen makes quality faucets, but you won't see me buying any
    in the near future. 
    
    /Jeff

    
    The MOEN 800 number is 800-321-8809   They apparently warrantee their
    faucets for 6 years, so tell them that you bought the faucet sometime
    within this range and they'll send you the parts.  
    
    BTW, my problem was exactly the problem discussed in .35, they're
    mailing me 2 new cartridges (1 for hot and 1 for cold).  It seems that
    the o-rings that you can buy in the hardware store do not quite fit the
    cartridge, so you need to get the cartridge with the o-rings.
    
                    -- Phil
    

    
    in .43 I should have said "and they'll send you the parts for FREE"
    
                -- Phil

What is the best kitchen faucet?   I need to replace the one we have, which is a
Delta with a single lever.  I've heard of Moen, Peerless and Price-Pfister, but
don't know how they compare.  I also want the faucet to have the spray 
attachment.

And where can you get the best price in the Framingham-Worcester area?


Thanks,

Dave

None of the above.  In the same price range, try Groehe (sp?).  When I redid
my kitchen, I went for a "single hole" faucet by KWC.  The spout is also
the sprayer, you pull it out and there's a hose attached.  You get MUCH more
pressure out of the sprayer than with the kind with the diverter.  But
they're not cheap!  You may need to go to a kitchen design store to find
KWC.

			Steve

Grohe is much more expensive than Price-Pfister and is supposedly much better.

There's a mail-order faucet place that advertises in the Boston Globe magazine
section.  If I remember correctly, they discount list prices by 30% or so.
Look for a small ad -- about a column-inch.

    Grohe is good.  Kohler also makes some very nice kitchen faucets.  One
    place that carries both is Framingham Plumbing & Supply.  It's on
    Claflin St just off of RT 126 near the fire station/Store 24.  It looks
    like a hole-in-the-wall kind of place but the price was decent.  HQ
    in Shrewsbury carries the low end products of Grohe.
    
    -al

Somerville also carries the lower end of Grohe.

Come to think of it - we have a Grohe kitchen faucet sitting unused (and
uninstalled) - it came from my wife's previous house, and we didn't use
it when we remodelled.  It's the one that Somerville sells for about $90.
If you're interested (and near ZKO and/or Nashua, NH), send me mail and
I'll ask my wife what she wants for it.

				Steve

    .1:
    
    Saw some faucets like that at the Nashua Home Depot a month ago, but I
    don't recall the name of the manufacturer.  If memory serves, there
    were several models running between $300 and $400.
    
    Dick

    Hi all,
    
    A couple of weekends ago I replaced all the internal parts to my
    single control delta kitchen faucet (o-rings, washers, control ball). 
    This worked great at stopping the leak from the handle when I had the
    water on.  However, now the faucet drips when the water is off (don't
    know which way wastes the most water yet).  I took the handle off last
    Sat. and tightened down on the assemble, this didn't help.  If I move 
    the handle around, I can sometimes find a spot where the water doesn't 
    drip.
    
    Before I go balistic on the faucet (or "check in" for awhile), does
    anyone have free advice?  My guesses are that one/some of the new
    components are no good, but which one is the probable cause?
    
    thanks
    paul

	I don't know but the Mass Water Resource Assoc. folks came around
	and put free aerators on faucets.  The one they put on my kitchen
	sink leaks, so now I am sure I am using more water than before!
		Linda

    RE:45
    Arghhh.  This is exactly what happened to me, too. 
    I got a picture of the delta faucet broken out from a book in the
    library.  Seems it has more internals than the Delta kits provide.
    I too would like to know how to fix this.  It's been two weeks of
    handle tweeking every time I use the %*&^! faucet...
    
    Laura
    

    Just did a Delta faucet Saturday. Works fine.
     
    Re 45 I'm going to ignore what you said about replacing washers as
    there are none in the area that could cause a drip like you have.
    Did you replace the two little black rubber cups in the bottom of the
    valve seat. I call them cups because they look more like cups than
    like washers? Did you install them with smaller i.d. hole facing up?
    How about the springs that go into the cups and rest on the bottom
    of the valve seat? There are 4 distinct flavors of these cup springs
    associated with Delta faucets; 
     
                                New long springs
                                New short springs
                                Tired long springs
                                Tired short springs
     
    Sometimes you can rejuvenate either of the tired versions on springs
    by giving them a little stretch, but this is only temporary measure
    and you'll have to replace them within six months. The clearances
    in the this style of faucet are fairly small, so a little wear on
    the cups or slight sag of the springs will cause them to leak.
    This info applies to .47 as well.
    

    RE:48
    Thanks for the tip.  The original springs were the tall skinny ones. 
    Since the replacement kit had the short tapered ones I figured they
    were the "new improved" version.  Once I returned the tall skinny
    tired ones my leak is much improved.  I can see though it will not last
    I have as yet not been able to find a place which sells the other kind
    of springs.  Tried HQ, NHD in Marlboro, Robinson's in Hudson.  Any more
    places I can try? in this general vacinity.
    
    Thanks
    
    Laura

    The last two Delta kits I bought had both kinds of spring.  
    
    The worst water leakage I had was stopped by replacing the O-rings at
    the top and bottom of the shaft where the water pipe slips over.  The
    O-rings were in the kit too.
    

I had a leaky kitchen faucet - it hummed too, on occasion.
This is a Delta 2-knob cheapo faucet, not the single-control
model...  I went to Home Depot for some other things, and
found a lot of Delta replacement parts kits there...it
cost me about $2 to fix the leak (as opposed to about $100
for the new faucet I liked, not to mention the plumber to
come fix what I broke while trying to install it...;-)

All I needed was a set of those spring-loaded washers that
were mentioned earlier...it took about 1 minute to replace
them (I was in a hurry)...and I didn't even break anything!

tim

    Those $2 spring loaded washers seem to be this week's "home tip".
    
    I bought a set last night at HQ to repair my Peerless 2 knob unit.
    The Delta replacements seemed to work perfectly. Not a drip all night.
    
    Edd
    

    Urgent advice please....(it's amazing how much one relies on their
    kitchen faucet working)...
    
    Yesterday morning, the faucet worked fine; then some mysterious
    event happened and the kitchen faucet is leaking like crazy just
    under the cap.  This is a DELTA, single lever faucet.  On the shaft,
    there are two O-rings - they look fine.  Actually, about a month ago, I
    used a "fixer kit" to fix a different leak and it worked pretty well.
    Now, it just shoots out,... not just a simple leak... actually leaks
    when it's when its off too.
    
    The so called mysterious event could have been my son(3yrs old) or
    daughter(18mo old) pushing down on the spout when 'helping' to clean
    dishes. Moving the spout up and down exacerbates(sp?) the leak/spray.
    
    So, I'm wondering if there are any other words of advice?
    
    Could the chrome spout part be slightly damaged(couldn't see anything
    wrong w/ it) so that it's out of true?   Or the shaft?
    
    Could the o-rings have gone that quickly?(I don't think so; I also
    tried swapping some other o-rings and always the same problem, same
    place). Bigger o-rings?
    
    Could the other gizmo on the shaft that goes in/out have something to
    do w/ it? (I'm not sure what you call it, but it's about 3/4" long w/ a
    rubber plug at the end and it goes in perpendicular to the shaft).
    
    I'm heading to HD tonight to either get a fix, or a new faucet... any
    advice beforehand would be greatly appreciated.
    
    regds,
    	John

    
    Well I recently bought a Delta fix-it kit at Home Depot, so I know
    they have the right stuff.
    
    I took my kitchen faucet apart, replaced the diverter valve (seperate
    kit part) and after adjusting a few things, decided nothing else needed
    replacing yet and put the kit away for the future.
    
    The kit comes with all the possible parts; the rubber cups, both spring
    sizes, O-rings, etc, but most importantly a packing washer wrench.
    
    You can get leaking on the supply side (rubber cups and spring
    adjustment/wear) but when you reassemble the ball, you should start
    with a loose packing washer (the plastic cupped thing under the crown
    nut) and tighten it down to assert enough pressure to stop leaking
    out of the top.  The instructions discuss this.
    
    When I put my faucet back together, I had to fiddle with this to stop
    such leaking.
    
    	Dave.

    Thanks Dave.
    
    Unfortunately, I had the same exact kit(not the diverter valve one, the
    other one w/ o-rings, packing wrench, etc).  This is the one I replaced
    last month and all was well until yesterday.
    
    I adjusted the 'packing washer' every which way and it didn't help.
    
    Can't figure... it looks like it should work, but then - SPRAAAAAAY! :-(
    
    plagued,
    	John

re: .15...
	I had a happy delta faucet for a number of years.  When it began to
leak I rebuilt it as you describe, only to find out I had to do it again
every couple of weeks.  Finally, in frustration, I went to Spags and found
a different type of kit, one made by delta instead of that red and black
package you find in K Mart or Aubuchon.  After using the mfg's kit its been
a happy faucet for four or five years now.

	Rick

    re .18
    
    Thanks Rick.  Home Depot sells the DELTA parts(made by DELTA), and
    that's what I had used :-(
    
    -John

	    Did you look over the ball for any signs of damage or build up?
	It may need a cleaning with steel wool or Scotch Brite �.  I can't
	imagine what would cause it to go all of a sudden except for an
	abbrasive finish (on the ball) that chews up the O-rings. 

					Tim

    Hi Tim... thanks for your reply.  The ball looked fine(as far as I
    could tell).  Also, on this style of delta, no o-rings come in contact
    w/ the ball....
    
    The thing is,... it really doesn't matter any more... I bought a
    complete new faucet(Price Pfister) at HD last night.  The employee
    recommended it over anything else.  It's going on tonight!!!
    
    Thanks for all the replies.
    
    regds,
    
    John

FWIW, my plumber says Price Pfister is not as good as Delta.

I agree.  And neither is as good as Grohe.

			Steve

    Well, I read this last night and was tempted to hold off but then
    decided that the Price Pfister can't be all that bad... Well, it's not that
    bad, but not that good either.. there's a SLOW drip; so that tells me
    that I'm just looking for trouble in the future.
    
    I'm going to replace it w/ something else.  I'll be going to Home Depot
    for the faucet.  You've recommended GROHE and DELTA(over Price
    Phister)... what is your top recommendation?  I think Home Depot sells:
    DELTA, MOEN, AMERICAN STANDARD, PRICE PFISTER, ELJER ... not sure about
    GROHE, but if they do, I'll look at that one too.
    
    Also, is CARTRIDGE type faucets recommended over the BALL type?
    
    thank you for your recommendations!
    
    regards,
    	John

    
    Did the installation information specify any upper limit for water
    pressure?  Check it and see if closing the cold shutoff valve a little
    will stop the drip.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

Closing a valve part way will not reduce the pressure in a pipe with the
faucet shut off.  It will only reduce the flow when the faucet is open.

Stan

    Then how do you reduce the overall pressure?
    
    Joyce

You install a pressure regulator.

    
    I was suggesting that he close the valve as a way of diagnosing the
    problem, not solving it, but you're right that you have to turn the
    faucet on and off to take the pressure off the system. Alternatively,
    you can flush a toilet to reduce the pressure out of the system for a
    minute or so, and see if it stops the drip.  
    
    It's just a thought, but if you still have a problem after a complete
    re-washering, and then again after a new faucet, I'd start thinking
    about other possible causes.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

Somerville Lumber carries Grohe.  But you can get even fancier with KWC if
you have some $400 and change to spend.  Here you're getting into the
single-hole faucet with the sprayer integral to the spout; just pull it
out and push the button on top when you want to use it.  The difference in
water pressure between those and the "diverter" type sprayers is astonishing.

Grohe kitchen faucets can be had for under $100 at Somerville Lumber.  Kohler
is another good brand, but can be pricey.  Eljer and Delta are a step down,
Price Pfister, Sterling and the rest are another step down.

				Steve

    The literature that came w/ the Price Pfister did not mention water
    pressure at all.  The drip was occuring even if ONLY the cold water
    source was on.  Also, we have a well and believe the water pressure is
    only around 40-60 psi; if I'm not mistaken, town water can be up to
    100psi?
    
    Regardless, I have bad vibes about this faucet from the 'replies for
    recommendation list' and the drip just added to my reasoning to get a
    different faucet.
    
    BTW - the Price Pfister was $47.11.  The DELTA that I was looking at
    was $48.xx.  The price range that I'm willing to pay is <$80.  Do the
    recommendations still apply in that price range?  Sometimes some brands
    lower models are junk.
    
    thanks
    	John

    I bought a Peerless faucet and sprayer combo at Spag's a month or so
    ago for around $50.  It was easy to install and has been working great
    so far.

    
    Scratch that thought if you're not on town water! 
    
    C.
    

I'd like to reopen this topic and get your input....

I'm also in the market for a new kitchen faucet (single control
w/ sprayer). I'm not all that interested in dropping more than
$100 on the thing though. I'm looking for a unit thats convenient
to use (i.e. spout should be high enough to give reasonable
clearance between bigger pots and itself and should be long enough
to extend a reasonable distance over the sink), reliable/durable and
be standard enough to have readily available replacement parts.
So far I've been to HQ and Home Depot which between them carry
Peerless, Price Pfister, Moen, Kohler, Delta and American Standard.
I also plan a future on visit to Masi, Builder Sq and Sommerville.

What I'd like to know from you is:

o Have you installed any of the above brands within the last 5 years?

o Were you satisfied with your purchase? If not, briefly, why.

o Has the unit required pair yet?

>o Have you installed any of the above brands within the last 5 years?

	I just installed a Kohler single handle w/spray (just yourbasic
	faucet, which is all I wanted). It cost me $92 (10% off list at the
	kitchen place I went to). I found out a week or so later that Masi
	just started carrying Kohler, at 20% off list. 

	One reason I chose the Kohler is that it's *all* metal, including
	the escutcheon plate. All of the cheaper brands I saw at various
	centers used chrome-look plastic for the escutcheon (some used it
	for other parts as well). I didn't see any of the higher-end Moen or
	Grohe, though.

	I've also installed a couple of the cheaper types (Peerless is one)
	for my mother-in-law).

>o Were you satisfied with your purchase? If not, briefly, why.

	I am very satisfied with my Kohler, but then I should be after a
	month. The action is very smooth, and I can select the temperature I
	want before turning on the water. It seems that many of the
	single-lever types make you turn the water all the way on before you
	can more the handle all the way to hot and cold.

	The Peerless didn't last very long (i.e., about a year). But then
	the water in that house is *very* hard, and they don't do a good job
	of keeping the softener running...

o Has the unit required pair yet?

	No. But like I said, it's a month old.


	Some pointers from my experience:

	1) Kohler makes 8" and 10" faucets. The 8" is the one you'll
	normally see, but it sounds like you might want to ask about the 10"
	for the extra height and reach. 

	2) Unlike the Peerless, which used a screw-on fitting common on many
	plumbing feed tubes, the Kohler requires a compression fitting. I
	didn't notice this until after I started installation (duh...), but
	luckily I have a hardware store down the street. I was able to buy
	feed tubes that use a compression fitting, btu the lessonis that not
	all faucets will install the same way; if this is an issue (I had to
	cut off the copper feed tubes on the faucet to fit it under my sink
	-- I have a tubing cutter) then you should take a look.

	Roy

    Check out the $90 Grohe faucet at Somerville Lumber - I think it's
    much better made than a comparably priced Kohler.
    
    			Steve

    I bought a $50 Peerless at Spag's 6 months to a year ago.  I'm still
    happy with it.

    
    ...all Delta in Bath and kitchen from Spag's.  Still working good!
    I have a cheep, plastic one in the mud room from Grossmans but
    havnt used it much...
    
    JD

    I had a MOEN when I bought a house 20 years ago.  After ten years, I
    replaced the guts.  I sold the house 5 years later.  I built a new
    house 5 years ago.  I installed all single lever MOEN fixtures (4 bath
    sinks, two showers) and in the kitchen, the whole spout lifts up about
    8 or 10 inches to clear large pots and kettles, high enough that we
    don't need a separate sprayer hose.  None of the fixtures have given
    one bit of trouble.  MOEN offers a lifetime guarantee, I believe.  
    
    The units are rather plain looking, and were competitively priced. 
    They also make fancy models for bigger bucks.
    
    I recommend them.
    
    Carl

    Can anyone offer some experience with the one-piece kitchen fixtures,
    in which the faucet spout is actually a holder for the sprayer (as
    described by Steve Lionel in .1)?  I've seen several examples, varying
    in price from about $145 (for Mo�n and another "name" brand, and a
    third I've never heard of before), down to $88 for one by Stirling
    (whom I've never heard of).  It won't be a surprise to me if it's a
    case of getting what you pay for, but I'd like to hear that from
    someone who is already using one of these beasts.
    
    I am assuming, BTW, that these work better than the common kind with
    diverter valves (which have been chronically marginal performers in my
    house).
    
    Dick

    I've been using my KWC faucet for almost three years now.  It's
    wonderful.  One of the advantages of the one-piece models is that
    you get full water pressure from the spray, something you don't
    get with the diverter models.  No problems with it at all.
    
    				Steve

    I found a nice fix (seems Ok so far anyway) that I had not been aware
    of, and maybe others reading this will like it.. Maybe you already knew
    about these, but I didn't, and was surprised how easy they are to use.
    I'm talking about No-Spin washers.
    
    Most of the supply line valves in my house are the kind with standard 
    Blue or Red handles that you turn; with a washer on the valve stem held 
    by a screw in the middle.  Most of them are really old (no idea how
    old) and the washers have crumbled away and on some the screw is broken 
    off in the stem or broke when I tried to remove it.  Anyway, I removed 
    the stems and thought I could buy replacements or complete valves and 
    strip them for parts, but the stems from the new valves didn't quite fit
    my old valves... I didn't want to try to replace the whole valve,
    because it would have meant soldering etc, and I wasn't up for that
    kind of hassle.
    
    The solution instead was to drill out the broken off screw, and put on 
    the No-Spin washers.  These are flat rubber washers on a metal (brass?) 
    plate, which have two spring fingers that stick into the screw hole and 
    hold the No-Spin onto the stem.
    
    The screw was amazingly easy to drill out, because it was soft metal
    and really corroded.  You also have to break/file off the small lip
    that is on the stem which normally holds the washer within it, but
    that's easy too with a file and pliers.
    
    The package the No-Spins came in said they last longer because they
    don't get turned down onto the seat; they just get compressed onto it.
    And, they look replaceable (just pry them off), if they ever do need
    it.
    
    Anyway, I thought they were so good and easy to use, I replaced the
    leaky washers in 4 valves with them already, and will get to the others 
    soon.
    
    Has anyone else used these, and had any bad experience with them?  
    Or good?
    
    The guy at Spag's said they sell a lot of them, mostly because it's next to
    impossible to find replacement valve stems without going to a full line
    supply house and probably paying big bucks... A package of 4 No-Spins 
    was something like $1.98....You also need to replace the really thin
    flat washer on the valve stem where it seats, but I think 6 of these
    cost a total of $.50.... 
    
    Anyway, I thought this might bail someone else out... Good luck!
    

    Re:  .53
    
    I think the actual name of these replacement washers is "No-Rotate"
    instead of No-Spin... I saw the package again, and reckon I got the
    name wrong..
    
    -Bob

I'm using a Moen that I am extremely pleased with, however, I think it is on
a different scale than what your looking at.  I picked it up when a local 
plumbing warehouse went out of bussiness.  We dug under boxes for over an
hour to find one that the sprayer part color matched the sink.  For our effort
we got the unit at less than half of wholesale, but we still paid over $200
for it. Quality?  I think it would survive a thermonuclear event with ease.
What I like about the unit is the amount of brass used.  Most of the Home Depot
styles seemed to have a lot of plastic, especially for the sprayer. The hose for
the sprayer is made with a chromed flexible metal sheathing.  Looks real good
and pratically indestructable.  Another feature that I like is that the button
will lock with a twist so that I can have either solid or spray water without
holding the button down. We've had the unit about a year and are very pleased.  

Al

    .14:
    
    Yeah, the amount of plastic (tinted or chromed) is one reason why I was
    asking.  Most of the ones I've noticed do use the metal-clad hose
    (somewhat reminiscent of BX cable), which does appear sturdier than
    the typical plastic hose on run-of-the-mill fixtures.
    
    The locking feature sounds like a plus, and I'll have to keep that in
    mind.
    
    Dick

      I know you can buy fix-it kits for a kitchen faucet innards, but
     don't know about availability of fixit kits for the mounting hardware.
     
      The mounting plate/nut under the mounting surface of the sink has
     rotted off completely after ~10 years of wonderful service. The faucet
     still works like a charm but is currently only supported by its
     plumbing.
      Anyone know if there are replcement parts available for Sterling
     single lever kitchen faucets?
      I'd get out and do the legwork to find out for myself but I'm
     currently on relocation in Scotland til mid summer.
    
      Thanks for any pointers,
    	Bob

Hi,

We just bought a new Peerless single-lever faucet for the kitchen sink.  I 
plan to install this myself, since the faucet was pricey and I don't want to 
spend more for a plumber.  I checked over the procedures last night and did a
sort of dry run.   I noticed that my current hot and cold water connections
are soldered into the hot and cold water supplies, so I will have to cut
the pipes to remove the old faucet.

The old faucet-to-supply pipe connections looks like this:
 

                      | |                                            
                      | | <-----  Cold water tube from faucet        
                      | |                                            
                      ___ <---------- Solder joint                   
                     |   |                                           
                   ----------                                        
                   |        |                                        
                   |        |                                        
                   |        |  <---------  Solder joint              
                   ----------                                        
                  |          |                                       
                  |          |                                       
                  |          |  <--------   Cold water copper pipe   
                  |          |                                       
                                                                     


The new faucet assembly comes with two female connectors on the bottom
intake tubes for the hot and cold water (coupling nuts are supplied).  
My questions are this:

1.  Where should I cut the tubing to remove the old faucet?

2.  It says to use Teflon tape on the threads to make a connection between
    the spout assembly hose and valve assembly.  Is it okay to use plumbers
    putty instead on the threads?

2.  How should I make the new cold and hot water connections?  Should I
    buy adapters that would allow me to make hand tightened connections
    with the supplies coupling nuts or should I cut off the connectors at
    the bottom of the new tubes and reconnect the inlet pipes as they
    were before (soldered)?

    I guess I need to get some kind of adapter that goes from the thin
    intake tubes of the faucet assembly to the copper pipe that supplies
    the water if I want to resolder the tubes.

Thanks!

Diana

    
.35> 1.  Where should I cut the tubing to remove the old faucet?

                      | |                                            
                      | |
                      | |                                            
                      ___ 
                     |   |                                           
                   ----------                                        
                   |        |                                        
                   |        |                                        
                   |        |
                   ----------                                        
                  |          |                                       
   Here: ------>  |          |  <--------   Cold water copper pipe
                  |          |
                  |          |                                       
    
    Use a pipe cutter if you can fit one in there.
    
    
.35> 2.  It says to use Teflon tape on the threads to make a connection between
.35>     the spout assembly hose and valve assembly.  Is it okay to use plumbers
.35>     putty instead on the threads?
    
    The teflon tape will make your life a lot easier. Sold in small spools
    at any decent hardware store, plumbing section, inexpensive.

.35> 3.  How should I make the new cold and hot water connections?  Should I
.35>     buy adapters that would allow me to make hand tightened connections
.35>     with the supplies coupling nuts or should I cut off the connectors at
.35>     the bottom of the new tubes and reconnect the inlet pipes as they
.35>     were before (soldered)?
    
    Use the compression hardware supplied with the faucet. Cut off the
    water supply pipes as shown above and solder on threaed male fittings
    to match the compression fitting on the faucet. Again, any decent
    hardware store will have the parts.
    
    The soldered route is marginally cheaper than the compresion fittings,
    which leads me to believe that the original plumber may have also
    neglected to include supply shutoff valves under the sink. If true, now
    is the time to add them. There are plastic supply shufoff valves that
    use compression fittings to the �" copper supply line, which will
    eliminate all solder work under the sink.
    
    

Thanks!

The plumber actually (thankfully) did put in shut-off valves... 

A friend of  mine suggested cutting off the supplied connectors on the end 
of the valve assembly and making the connection between the copper water 
supply pipe and the the valve assemble inlet tubes via a compression coupling 
that you just tighten on to both ends..  Looks something like this:

             |-------|
             |       |
             ||     ||
              |     |
               |   |
               |   |
               |   |
              |     |
             ||     ||
             |       |
             |-------|

He said this would remove the need to solder at all under the sink.. He said you
slip one tube into each end and tighten a nut on each end at the same
time to compress ferrules around the tubes. And that there are
compression reducing adapters that can take different size tubes on each
end, so the tubes do not have to be the same diameter.

Has anyone ever used solderless compression couplings?  

Thanks.

Diana

Do use the teflon tape, not plumbers putty.  Putty isn't intended for pipes.

I've used the compression fittings but sometimes you can have a hard time
keeping them from leaking.

My choice would be as .36 suggests - solder an appropriately sized male
fitting on the supply pipe and use the compression fitting which came with
the faucet.

				Steve

I just had a brand new Kohler kitchen faucet installed this week and I
just noticed that the spout's finish has some very tiny bumps on it.

It's very minor, but I paid a lot of money for this faucet and I am
afraid these bumps might be the prelude to premature pitting or they
could be nothing.  

When I was shopping around for a faucet, at one store, I was shown an example 
of Kohler's low-end lesser quality finish where there slight bumps and the
salesperson said "and this hasn't even seen water yet!".  That helped 
justifying paying the big bucks for a high-end Kohler.  Lotta good that did...

The plumbing supply place where I purchased it (25% off list, thank-you-very
much!) said to bring it in and they would look at it.

I don't "do" plumbing (besides 1-800-plumber), but is a spout something 
easy to remove?

Do these bumps sound like legitimate (future pitting) concern or a possible
overreaction?  They are very very tiny - like very fine sand particles - 
less than a dozen.

    You may not be a plumber, but you don't have to be to get the spout
    off.  If it's a two handle faucet, there should be a knurled "cap"
    on top of the spout section.  Shut off the water supply (usually right
    below the sink) and use an adjustble wrench to unscrew the knurled
    "cap" piece.  Be careful because the finish will scratch easily.
    When the "cap" is off, just lift the spout off.
    
    If it's a single handle faucet, you'll have to probably get an allen
    wrench to remove the handle, and then you can follow the route as 
    the two handle method.
    
    And of course, your faucet could be completely different.  :)

    I seem to be having a problem with my shower faucet. Sometimes, when I
    take a shower in the morning I run out of hot water real fast. But when
    I check the faucet in the bathroom sink there is plenty of hot water.
    It is a intermittent problem and I am wondering if it has something to
    do with the hot/cold valve. It is a fairly new shower (9 or 10 years
    old). 
    
    
    Any suggestions
    
    Mark

    	If you can run the hot water in the bathroom sink for a while
    (after you have run out in the shower of course) I can't see how it
    could be anything else.
    
    	I take that back. I did have a problem in a duplex where they cross
    plumbed a few things. If this is a single-family home, it's go to be
    the faucet if you have hot water elsewhere.
    
    	Ray

    >with the hot/cold valve
    
    i'm assuming by this you mean a single handle faucet.
    is it PLENTY hot enough when you start ?? if not,
    in the shower type there is a small adjusting screw
    anti-scald. this screw alows you to adjust the amount of
    hot to the cold so no one can use just all hot and wind up
    in the emergency room. maybe you can find it behind the plate
    marked with the h/c/shower label... and once you find it
    fiddle with it.
    
    jim

    I have a question about brass (or gold color) faucets.  I have
    heard that the finish could be destroyed by minerals in the water
    or by using any cleansers on them.  The chrome faucets the builder
    put in don't really fit the decor of the bathroom and we want to
    put in brass ones.  I'm wondering how sensitive these faucets are
    and if it's worth the trouble.  We tested the water and the only
    thing it was high in was magnesium (sp) and I think we can avoid
    using cleansers on them.  Are they really sensitive?  Will they
    hold up over time?
    
    Frank

	Most any brass comes coated with lacquer to retard
tarnish.  This works great for a while, then it scratches, then
it's WORSE than if it wasn't there, since you can't clean under
it.  You've got to strip the entire thing, repolish, and recoat.

	Don't buy brass unless you like polishing, or are willing
to have the thing removed and redone every once in a while.  I put
in brass in one bathroom - 10 years later, it looks pretty bad.
I haven't yet decided whether to clean it all off and either let
it 'naturalize' or polish regularly (it's SO hard to get good help
these days - traditional butlers would polish the doorplate daily!).

	There are places that'll do this for you.  I once went to a
furniture hardware place in Boston, Beacon Hill, looking for replacement
dresser pulls for a bedroom set - the ones on it (after a fire refinish)
were gold painted, over junk metal I assumed, although I liked the shapes.
They had nice replacements at about $3 per, but the guy scratched at my
sample...under the paint was pure brass.  For about $1.50 each they 
cleaned off all the paint and polished 'em up for me.  No coating, though,
I now polish occasionally (I like the natural look) with Magic Wadding,
and it looks great - dark in the nooks, buffed brighter where I can reach
which is the areas that are normally brighter on heavily-used stuff.

	I saw a This Old House show featuring a door hardware maker, 
probably Baldwin.  They claimed to have some miracle lifetime coating
that would even survive outdoors, with no tarnish.  Their sample looked
good, but I do know they're VERY pricey and I don't think they make faucets.

    
    We have brass fixtures in the 1/2 bath. It will be 10 years this
    summer. Since the 1/2 bath is not used as much as the full baths, 
    like no toothpaste, shaving cream or whatnot gets on the fixtures, 
    they stay in good shiny condition. I wash the basin and fixtures
    with soap and water - no powerful cleanser used. The vanity lights 
    and the mirror in the 1/2 bath are also brass and brass trimmed. 
    They too still look very nice. The door knob, on the other hand, 
    looks miserable!
    
    
    Eva 

    Hummm, I still can't decide.  It sounds like they will troublesome
    after about 10 years if they are placed in a heavily used bathroom
    even if you're careful not to use cleansers.  Is this an accurate
    statement?
    
    Frank

>    Hummm, I still can't decide.  It sounds like they will troublesome
>    after about 10 years if they are placed in a heavily used bathroom
>    even if you're careful not to use cleansers.  Is this an accurate
>    statement?

In my opinion, yup, that's it.  If you want bright brass, you've
got regular (well, 10 years) replacement or serious work OR a steady
diet of regular polishing.

Now, if you like patina...don't protect it, and just let it tarnish!
I found a large brass water faucet out behind my house, attached to
a steel pipe coming up out of the ground - it dates back to when there
was a barn there, and obviously an underground water system, now inactive.
I removed it (carefully) and reinstalled it as a new faucet near my
garden, being very careful (wrags on wrenches) NOT to disturb the patina.
It's wonderful - nice even deep green.

    delta is indulging in lots of marketing around their new line of brass
    faucet fixtures ... the hype is of the "look! no more tarnish!" nature. 
    i have no personal experience or knowledge of the new products, but
    thot you'd like another data point.
    
    

We bought an old chandelier at a yard sale for $7. It's tarnished brass, and
looks pretty good in our new dining room... sort of a nice old-fashioned
look.

Someone must have gone crazy with polishing compounds over the years, because
some parts of it are still shiny where the coating hasn't been rubbed off.

    Ah, deep green, now that's the color we're really after. :-)
    We decided against the brass faucets since we will have kids
    some day and we can't control what they will do to the faucets.
    "Gee Dad, I just poured my chemistry experiment down the sink."
    Thanks for all the replies.
    
    Frank