Conference 7.286::home_work

re: .0,.1

In thinking about grasping the ladder, the mechanics of it suggests
that we are only 'stabilizing' (balancing) with our hands. By grasping
the rungs with our hands (wet, paint splattered, "D" shape rungs?, cracked,
whatever ?????). It is our feet doing the work, and again thinking about
the mechanics of it, our feet should not go hurriedly along unless our
head understands which foot is to do what next. Make sense ? I've done
a lot of ladder climbing for painting, roofing, scraping(and a lot of
dumb things like leaning 'way over for that one tiny spot').

Speaking of ladders, is there a rule of thumb for how far it's
'safe' to lean (other than just before the ladder slips! ) ?

Recently I saw a nice gadget ona Homelite chain saw: A tip guard on the
end of the bar, to help keep it from: a) 'catching' another branch,
b) keeping moving chain from body when it does 'kick_back' , c) ????.

Do you think the 'guard' is worth it ? 

I learned a very easy lesson a few weeks ago:
I learned that the two fuses directly below the two cartridge fuses in
fuse box (like for appliances) are not necessarily connected to those
two cartridges. Here, let me draw a picture, with the correct relationship
I learned AFTER I dug out a FUSTAT adaptor from a "live" socket.

	c1-----c2 c3----c4
	
	f3     f4 f1    f2
                        ^
                        |___ Thsi is the adaptor I dug out after pulling
out c3------c4 cartridge fuses !

* * * * * * * ALWAYS CHECK WITH A VOLTAGE METER OR equivalent BEFORE WORKING
ON CIRCUITS !   Should I know better ? As an electronic engineer, I sure
hope I should. Sometimes we get careless, and sometimese we get lucky. Some
people aren't lucky !

					Bob

Basic rule of thumb for the angle of a ladder. When you think a ladder is
at the proper angle, stand facing the ladder with your feet touching the
bottom of the side rails. If you can put you arms straight out and place
the palms of your hands on a rung while still standing upright, then your
have tha ladder placed at a safe angle. Firefighters are taught to do this
religiously. Also, when climbing to a roof, you should have three rungs of
the ladder abouve the edge of the roof so you can safely get back on, and
when you do that put your feet on the first rung below the roof edge, never
above it.

bill

Re: .3 -- thanks for the ladder slant tip.

Re: .2

I once owned a homelite with that tip guard.  After using it for a couple
of hours, I threw the guard away (after using the homelite for a couple
of months, I threw *it* away and got a real chainsaw [Stihl]).  The tip
gets in the way for every chainsaw task except cutting logs to stove
length.  So if someone dropped off a grapple-load in your back yard and
you are bucking it up, it probably won't do any harm.  But if you are doing
it right (using a peavey to get the logs off the ground or pile), you don't
need a tip guard.  If you are out in the woods, the guard is a real
distraction and any distraction is dangerous.  Furthermore, some of the
more advanced cuts, like "boring," can't be done if the saw has that guard.

Kickback occurs when you hit something with the top forward quadrant of
the chain as it curves down around the tip of the blade.  If you are a
beginner, you should approach the chainsaw with abject fear and a firm
resolve never to hit *anything* with that top forward quadrant.

JP

to help instill that "abject fear"...

Last month, while in the local Emergency room with a couple of bruised ribs (not
a chain saw accident, slipped on the ice), the guy next to me was getting his
chain sawed hand stitched up.  The doctor mentioned that chain saws have this
nasty habit of leaving a very ragged cut, hard to sew up..

__Rich

I'm still scared of my circular saw, haven't let myself buy a chainsaw yet.

re: .4

What's a "peavey" in regards to getting logs up off the ground for cutting?

-joet

A peavey looks something like this: 

                                   xxxxxxxxx
                                  x         x
                                  x
          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                  x
                                  x
                                 xxx
                                   

The curved piece on top pivots at the handle.  This arm swings over the log
and and a sharp point at the tip grags onto it.  You can then lever the log
back on the support leg at the bottom.  If you lever the log near the middle,
one end of the log is on the ground, the middle of the log is supported
by the peavey, and the other end of the log is high in the air where you
can cut in comfort and safety.  I've also seen peaveys called "saw-savers"
and that's a pretty good name...

JP

re: .8

Interesting.  I had one and didn't even know.  Bought it at Spag's a few months
ago for $23.00.  They called it a log jack.

-joet

P.S.  Cute picture. 

If you want to get really technical, I don't think that is is peavey.  A peavey
looks like this:


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX>- <-- sharp point
                                           X
                                         / X
                                        /  X
                                   hinge   X
                                            X
                                             XX  /  <-- another sharp point
                                               XX

It is used to move logs around, not lift them off the ground for sawing.  The
log lifter pictured before may also be referred to as a peavey because of their
close resemblance, but I don't think it actually is one.

Paul

I thought the device described in .10 was called a cant hook.

BB

Folks,

    This is just a reminder to all.  When working around the house
(or whatever) and using something that recommends ventilation.  
FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS.  (Yes, I know you would anyways.)
    A cousin of mine was doing some tile work in his house this
past weekend and evidently the fumes from the mastic(sp?) he was
using caused him to pass out.  He died of a brain hemorrhage.


Rich

I hope relating my experience might save a few eyes out there.

               <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]TOOLS.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< Tools and Handy Gadgets >-
================================================================================
Note 345.0                      Eye Protection                        No replies
ALEX::ALEX "Alex Conn, ZKO"                          42 lines   8-JUN-1987 21:34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am probably representative of a number of the noters in this file.

When I use tools, I tend to use eye protection and when a tool is 
really loud, I use ear plugs, and when there is a lot of dust I use a 
mask.  

Three weeks ago, I was using my Dremel tool grinding bit *with* eyeglasses 
but without additional eye protection.  I was standing back, so I 
thought it was safe enough.  I have not had trouble in 20 or so years 
in the workshop. 

That day, nothing felt really wrong; just an annoying feeling in my eye.
The next day, however, things began to gradually feel bad in one eye so
that, by the time I was ready to go to bed, it was painful to close my
right eye.  The next morning I called up my doctor, and by the end of
the day, they had removed two pieces of steel from my cornea and had to
scrape out the rust rings around them!  They put a patch on the eye,
which they had to tape very tightly so that the rest of the rust would
come off. 

24 hours with that patch was no fun.  Every time I tried to move the
left eye (rather than my head) the right eye would try to move resulting
in pain that resembled somebody throwing sand in your eye. Also, indoor
fluorescent lights were too bright for my *left* eye, let alone the sun.
Driving to and from the eye doctor every day was a challenge enough with
only one eye, let alone being almost blinded by the bright daylight.
Then, when I got to the doctor, I could not read the top line (actually
room for only one character) on the eye chart--with glasses. (Normally I
correct to 20/15 with glasses--better than normal sight.) 

Skipping the interim, I now have my sight back, but am still a bit 
sensitive to bright daylight.  The doctor said I was lucky that the 
injury was not in the center of the cornea.  As it is, I will have 
scarring and some diffraction.  

I have ordered a more comfortable pair of goggles from an industrial 
safety catalog (details available on request).  High quality fog-free 
goggles only cost $6.  That's cheap.  I always figured my eyeglasses 
offered some protection.  Maybe they do.  But three weeks ago, it was 
not enough.

Alex

    happened to me once when I was younger (and more foolish).  I was
    working on a car with a grinder and a couple of small pieces of
    steel got into my eye.  About 3 or 4 days later, I too had the patch
    on my eye.  It's a real eye opener (had to do it)
    
    
    Now I almost always am wearing glasses unless I'm doing something
    like clamping or painting.

    -bill

RE: .2 

I have not received them yet; just got the invoice.  Send me mail if I 
don't post a report on them here in a few days.

Here's the info:


                   High Tech Comfort Goggle 
         
         Provides the added comfort of a woven, brushed cotton padding
         where the goggle meets the face.  Has been found especially
         useful where goggles are worn in cold weather conditions.  Can
         be worn with respirators, hard hats and glasses up to 56mm.
         Superior ventilation system rejects splash and dust. Spherical
         0.060" polycarbonate, fog free lens gives 160� vision and
         absorbs 96% of harmful UV rays.  Grey body with clear lens and
         black neoprene strap.  Meets ANSI Z87.1-1979. 
         
         D5535  Goggle  $5.60 (I think the price went up to $6.10)
         D5532  Repl. lens    Package of 12/31.55
         
         
Lab Safety Supply
A Division of Science Related Materials, Inc.
P.O. Box 1368
Janesville, WI  53547-1368

Order toll free:  1-800-356-0783.

I got the catalog from somebody who was very satisfied with their 
service.  The catalog itself is an eye opener (ahem).  Just by looking at 
the equipment that is sold, you can see how dangerous some occupations 
are and just where you *don't* want to work!

Alex

    My father always had a golden rule for working in the shop.
    Eye protection will be worn at all times! He always had 3-4 pairs
    of goggles right inside the door and would insist on visitors
    wearing them. In my case I was told if he ever caught me without
    I would never be allowed into the shop again. 
    I never tested him since I knew he meant it(his father lost his
    right eye from a chip of metal thrown by a grinder) and now have
    the same rule in my shop.
    I also use earplugs whenever using a tool(I already have ear damage)
    A hammer can cause my ears to ring loudly for weeks after.
    
    I've never heard of anyone being hurt by being too careful. 
    
    -jerry
    

Well I have received the goggles and they are impressive. They fit well,
and have *no* little holes to let flying pieces of metal in; they use a
special venting system.   (My guess is that, given that the metal pieces
came from the side (on a ricochet), the standard goggles with 100
one-millimeter holes for ventilation would have only had an 80% chance
of stopping this injury.) 

The goggles are made by Midland Safety Products, Inc., model number 
C503R.  But the Lab Safety Supply people mentioned in note .3 are 
great--good service and you even get a free mug with the order (if you 
ask for it).

It's a crime that you can't get these at your local hardware store or 
Sears.  I believe one could buy a truckload of these and stop by every 
shop in town and sell every one at $10 a crack by the end of a day. You 
could even use them for skiing!

Alex

    After several close encounters I finally decided to stop being stupid
    and I got a pair of prescription safety glasses (about $50). They 
    are not as good as goggles, but they have side shields as part of 
    the frame and fit closely.  For anything really risky I still want 
    goggles, but at least if I put these on when I go in the shop I've got
    something a little better than my regular eyeglasses.  The goggles
    you're talking about sound really good.  The main problem I find
    is getting something comfortable, then WEARING THEM!!!  

[Moderator, please feel free to move this note if you feel it goes with another
 topic.  My scan through the directory and the keywords didn't reveal anything
 Thanks,]

I'm a recent home (Townehouse) owner and this note has become one of those
regularly referenced notesfile.  Thanks to everyone who contributes, its nice
to hear all of the suggestions.

My concerns are in two areas, the garage and the basement:

1) In some garages, the garage door springs have a steel cable which runs
   down the middle of the spring.  Thus if the spring break, it is held
   captive by the wire and can't go flying.  The springs in my garage don't
   have this feature.  Does anyone know of any kits or such for adding this
   wire to a presently existing garage?  If not, I know I can easily but the
   cable and the mounting hardware, but what size cable is needed, and where
   are the ends of the cable affixed to permit free travel of the springs
   and still provide the safety measure?

2) The townehouse is heated by forced hot water and sent through the house
   in large copper-colored pipes.  Near the furnace, I've noticed some scorch
   marks in the wood near where the pipes travels (wiithin 3/4").  Since the
   building is still standing after 4 winters, I'm not overly concerned about
   it, but as the wood dries, there could be a chance of the wood igniting,
   right?  If so, what can I do to try to protect the wood?  My current thoughts
   are putting some infra-red reflecting metal over the wood (like shiny
   aluminum) or putting insulation over the pipe.  Which is better?  What else
   could be done?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments,
   Ike

    Re the scorch marks - sure they aren't near a fitting which was
    soldered to the pipe?  Not uncommon for plumbers to scorch the
    wood next to a fitting when they're soldering.

I really don't want to be a pain, but we try to avoid dual-subject notes such as
this as much as possible.  It makes it very difficult to follow the ensuing 
interleaved discussions, and it makes it difficult to find this information 
later.  So...

Go ahead and start a new note about the garage door springs.  There's one note
about adjusting the springs, but the safety wire is really a different thing.

As far as the scorching goes, I think the previous reply is probably right.  
Framing is often scorched during installation, and since the flash point of
wood is somewhere around 550 degrees F, I don't think that the hot water pipes
could possibly get hot enough to scorch the wood, even if they were touching 
it.  If that doesn't seem to be it, then enter a new, separate note about it.

Thanks,
Paul

    I recieved a catalog in the mail this week that has some really cool
    safety stuff in it.  SAFTEY FIRST and BE PREPARED are my two favorite
    slogans and safety stuff pushes my button.  Anyway, this catalog is
    filled with all kinds of safety stuff.  Leather aprons, eye protection,
    ear protection, hazardous chemical spill cleanup, alarms, gas masks,
    dust masks, clean room garments, fire extingishing waste cans, parking
    lot line painting machines, first aid kits, chemical protection
    clothing, eye wash fountains and showers, striped marking tape, signs,
    safety belts, dust collection systems, ladders, etc.  146 pages of
    stuff.
    
    The title is:
    
    INDUSTRIAL SAFETY (and security company)
    1390 Neubrecht Rd.
    Lima, Ohio 45801
    1 800 537 9721
    419 228 5034 FAX 
    419 227 6030 Product Information
    
    I really like the two pages of signs that have SAFETY FIRST at the top
    with warnings like "Acid, Wear Gloves" at the bottom.  
    
    They have 4 pages of goggle and safety glasses ranging from $1 to $12. 
    tinted lenses and colored frames, different levels of protection.  This
    does not count the 2 pages of full face shields or 2 pages of welding
    goggles and masks.
    
    If anyone has a shop, there are lots of things you could use.  For
    instance, leather gloves $2.52 a pair, $2.39 a pair if purchase a
    dozen.  These are the split grain leather palm, index finger, thumb,
    and kunckle strap with heavy canvas back and cuff.  My local store
    carries White Mule brand for about $8-$10 a pair.  It takes me about a
    year to wear out a pair.  If I bought a dozen, I would save a minimum
    of $60 not figuring in inflation for the next 12 years!
    
    White cotton garden gloves with plastic dots- $.77 a pair!  They will
    knock off 5% if you buy 40 pair, 10% for 80.  I don't know what you
    would do with 40-80 pairs of gloves but at $.73 a pair, you could
    throw them away when they got dirty.
    
    Anyway, give a call and see what they have to offer.  I do not have any
    affilation, just a like of safety equipment.

    This weekend I had to keep working on my deck in the pouring rain.  I
    have to complete it for a major birthday party for this coming weekend.
    
    As I stood there in the rain using my circular saw, my drills all
    plugged into the wall I began to wonder just how safe or how stupid it
    is to work in the rain using hand power tools.  I did not use my radial
    arm saw because I did not want to ruin it in the rain, but had to use
    my hand tools or else try can cut everything manually.  Since I am
    using deck screws there is no way I could have put in 2K screws without
    using my drills.
    
    Anyone know how dangerious that was?
    
    Brian

    
    
    No worse than blow drying your hair in the shower.
    
    							

> Since I am using deck screws there is no way I could have put in 2K screws
> without using my drills.

	Use a good cordless 12-volt drill/screwgun with at least 2 battery
	packs with a 1 hour charger .......

>>    Anyone know how dangerious that was?

Where you pluged into a GFI protected circuit?

If yes - it was just stupid - if no it was really stupid and as .1 says no more
dangerous than hopping in the shower with them.

Personally I get every power tool out of rain ASAP (if they ever see the rain
(I should never trust weathermen)). 

If it was a "must get done" project and it was raining - then I'd have someone
over me with a sheet of plastic and make sure I'm not standing in any water.

bjm

       <<< Note 5645.3 by HNDYMN::MCCARTHY "A Quinn Martin Production" >>>
                   -< I just felt a little tingle then ZAP >-

>>    Anyone know how dangerious that was?

	Rather - safer for you if you were GFCIed, bad for the
tools in any case.  If the project was really urgent (how many
really are, compared to your life?) you could have cut indoors
or used battery-powered tools.  Last winter, with all the ice
dam troubles, my house ended up with water pooling in the soffits
and finding it's way indoors.  I had to go up there and drain
them, and install vents, but I knew there'd be ice and/or water
involved, so I bought a Makita cordless trim circular saw to
go along with my cordless drill.  The lack of life-threatening
electricity was nice;   the smaller size of the saw was also
nice while reaching out a 2nd floor window and cutting into the
soffit over my head, as a normal saw would have put me at physical
risk as well as electrical.

    I had the tools plugged into a gfi extension box.  I assumed that the
    tools were double insulated and that together with the extension box I
    was ok.  As far as buying battery powered tools, that would have been
    great but after spending and continue to spend huge moneys on wood,
    fasteners, misc, the last thing I could justify is $200 for a good
    industrial strenght drill and extra batteries and another $200 for a
    battery powered circular saw too.  The cutting could have been done
    down in the workshop, but predrilling and screwing could only be done
    on the deck.  I did try putting a makeshift tarp over my head, but the
    deck was soaken wet anyway and the tarp was too cumbersom.
    
    Anyway I finished and was lucky I didn't get shocked I quess.  I was
    just curious in case I ever have to do this again.
    
    Thanks
    
    Brian

    >Use a good cordless 12-volt drill/screwgun with at least 2
    >battery packs with a 1 hour charger .......
    
     That's not really the right tool for the job (as I discovered the hard
    way.) A screw shooter is far preferable. A cordless screwgun, even a
    good one, is not made to do 2K screws in short order; it overheats the
    battery and cuts down on life expectancy.

    ... Also, its not a good idea to cut your lumber when its wet, even
    if its PT. 
    
    btw, happy birthday! :-)